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It's shocking what's happened. These offences took place in 2008/2009 right? How can it take til 2012 to get to court? Also were the suspects given bail or kept locked up til now?
What been occuring ?????????????? on 09:48 - Feb 25 by G_Dale
It's shocking what's happened. These offences took place in 2008/2009 right? How can it take til 2012 to get to court? Also were the suspects given bail or kept locked up til now?
the Granada news piece i saw indicated it took so long to get to court as the police didn't act initially when an abused girl broke her silence and tried to raise the alarm resulting in the cycle of abuse continuing !!
i too would like to know wether the accused persons have been on bail !
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What been occuring ?????????????? on 10:10 - Feb 25 with 2487 views
What been occuring ?????????????? on 09:58 - Feb 25 by justanillusion
the Granada news piece i saw indicated it took so long to get to court as the police didn't act initially when an abused girl broke her silence and tried to raise the alarm resulting in the cycle of abuse continuing !!
i too would like to know wether the accused persons have been on bail !
they normally fire off back home whilst on bail, pia stylee
Gissa job
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What been occuring ?????????????? on 11:49 - Feb 25 with 2420 views
The main problem with this thread and the subsequent arguments are that the media reports of the case. Why is the colour of skin or religion of a defendants skin has anything to do with a child abuse / paedophile case is of any relevance?
The problem is that the young women and girls who have been targeted are mainly from vulnerable backgrounds. It doesn't matter what race or skin colour the attacker has, what matters is that the attacks have taken place.
Attacking an area where some of the defendants live or worked also has no impact on the trial. All that can be hoped is that justice is carried out and that the correct decision is reached.
Perhaps I am naive, but there must be a reason why the police took no action in terms of prosecution initially.
I also think that, reading this thread, the 11 on trial have been found guilty already. That's the sort of justice we'd normally associate with the savages that their ilk are being painted out to be.
In the meantime I hope the police are able to refocus their strategy on the obvious criminality of many in this town.
What been occuring ?????????????? on 00:02 - Feb 25 by D_Alien
BJ on this occasion you're so clearly out of touch with what's happening, but you can't resist posting "clever" little remarks as if you've got some kind of moral perspective from which to comment.
You haven't.
Know when to back off when you don't know what the fook you're talking about. You also clearly haven't digested the import of some of the very well-considered and reasoned posts on this thread.
You've done yourself a disservice with your small-minded comments.
I'll go further. The generalisations you've made are typical of the white liberal establishment (and I'm part of that establishment in some respects, that's why I can comment on your views) that seeks to minimise the very real cultural dissonance felt by asian males in our society. You simply don't understand them - they themselves are struggling to get to grips with their place in the world. Yet all you can do is spout platitudes about the third reich.
As I said, back off when you don't know what the fook you're talking about.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
I'm talking about people seizing any stick to beat a group of people they don't like. What are you talking about? Wicked crimes are committed all over the world by people of every background. For what it's worth, I abhor Islam. It's a mediaeval religion which should, in its peaceful form, be tolerated, and in its extreme form be comdemned as fascist, which I'm happy to do (from a position of anonymity; lacking the moral and physical courage to say so publicly!). I'm pro-West, pro-freedom of expression, and I'm happy to welcome anyone who shares those views as a fellow- citizen. I'll also avail myself of said freedom to post whatever I like whenever I like, but thank you anyway for the advice. Or was it a threat?
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What been occuring ?????????????? on 14:34 - Feb 25 with 2292 views
What been occuring ?????????????? on 00:16 - Feb 25 by DorsetDale
Absolutely spot on BJ and well done for having the conviction to say so!!
Too many on this thread have a holier than thou atttitude and are far too willing to dispense "justice" upon others simply as a result of heresay.
No-one as yet has commented on my earlier post, which in itself speaks volumes!!
As an aside, has anyone here attended a common purpose course?
"No-one as yet has commented on my earlier post, which in itself speaks volumes!! "
They have commented - to the effect that it was going off the point of the thread, which is too serious an issue to divert into the particular generalisation you intended
What been occuring ?????????????? on 11:49 - Feb 25 by pnc4eva1
The main problem with this thread and the subsequent arguments are that the media reports of the case. Why is the colour of skin or religion of a defendants skin has anything to do with a child abuse / paedophile case is of any relevance?
The problem is that the young women and girls who have been targeted are mainly from vulnerable backgrounds. It doesn't matter what race or skin colour the attacker has, what matters is that the attacks have taken place.
Attacking an area where some of the defendants live or worked also has no impact on the trial. All that can be hoped is that justice is carried out and that the correct decision is reached.
I'm sorry pnc, but it's not a skin colour or religion problem but a cultural issue, as I've very clearly elucidated earlier in the thread
To pretend this isn't central to the defendants in this case is a dereliction of meaningful debate
I've also very clearly stated that the way to deal with it is through the due process of law; but unless we seek to understand the foundations of why asian males should act in their very specific way - often completely in the open in broad daylight, we'll never be able to engage with them to prevent them from making the same culturally inappropriate assumptions in the future
What been occuring ?????????????? on 14:34 - Feb 25 by D_Alien
"No-one as yet has commented on my earlier post, which in itself speaks volumes!! "
They have commented - to the effect that it was going off the point of the thread, which is too serious an issue to divert into the particular generalisation you intended
Same goes for BJ's responses
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
It wasn't intended as a diversion though, that's your interpretation. Nothing wrong in widening the debate and showing why justice is often difficult to come by especially when covered up by the authorities.
Mass migration has been a deliberate policy to dilute national identity and set neighbour against neighbour by the creation of ghettos and lack of integration. This is bound to be a factor in what's been happening in Rochdale.
What been occuring ?????????????? on 15:15 - Feb 25 by DorsetDale
It wasn't intended as a diversion though, that's your interpretation. Nothing wrong in widening the debate and showing why justice is often difficult to come by especially when covered up by the authorities.
Mass migration has been a deliberate policy to dilute national identity and set neighbour against neighbour by the creation of ghettos and lack of integration. This is bound to be a factor in what's been happening in Rochdale.
Fair enough, and I'm not in any way minimising the problems raised in the links you've supplied; but when others are seeking to deny the specific cultural issue apparent among some asian males in the issue of female availability, I feel its better to stick to the specifics of that than have the debate diluted
What been occuring ?????????????? on 15:25 - Feb 25 by D_Alien
Fair enough, and I'm not in any way minimising the problems raised in the links you've supplied; but when others are seeking to deny the specific cultural issue apparent among some asian males in the issue of female availability, I feel its better to stick to the specifics of that than have the debate diluted
No probs D. At least it's always..., shall we say interesting, when discussing things with you.
YOU do not have the right to give someone else permission to tell me what I can and can't do.
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What been occuring ?????????????? on 16:47 - Feb 25 with 2167 views
What been occuring ?????????????? on 14:43 - Feb 25 by D_Alien
I'm sorry pnc, but it's not a skin colour or religion problem but a cultural issue, as I've very clearly elucidated earlier in the thread
To pretend this isn't central to the defendants in this case is a dereliction of meaningful debate
I've also very clearly stated that the way to deal with it is through the due process of law; but unless we seek to understand the foundations of why asian males should act in their very specific way - often completely in the open in broad daylight, we'll never be able to engage with them to prevent them from making the same culturally inappropriate assumptions in the future
I know that you stated it was of a cultural reason. However you have missed my point. When the recent paedophile ring was smashed and a man from Rochdale was implicated the press did not state white man. Nor did this message board become inundated with anti white posts. This debate has become racially orientated not abouyt the poor victims.
It is not a dereliction of the debate to point out the fact. As for cultural reasons for the crimes, does that also apply when the afore mentioned rochdale man was prosecuted. It does not matter what cultural, religious or ethnic background there are unfortunbately members of society who will seek to take advantage of vulnerable young people.
If they are found guilty of the crimes then they should rightfully face a prison sentence that means they will not get out of jail.
What been occuring ?????????????? on 19:08 - Feb 25 by pnc4eva1
I know that you stated it was of a cultural reason. However you have missed my point. When the recent paedophile ring was smashed and a man from Rochdale was implicated the press did not state white man. Nor did this message board become inundated with anti white posts. This debate has become racially orientated not abouyt the poor victims.
It is not a dereliction of the debate to point out the fact. As for cultural reasons for the crimes, does that also apply when the afore mentioned rochdale man was prosecuted. It does not matter what cultural, religious or ethnic background there are unfortunbately members of society who will seek to take advantage of vulnerable young people.
If they are found guilty of the crimes then they should rightfully face a prison sentence that means they will not get out of jail.
I don't think we're disagreeing about the basics here, but to repeat (ad nauseum if necessary) there are certain cultural factors at play with the specific crime that the group of men currently on trial in Liverpool are accused of.
These specific cultural factors simply DO NOT EXIST among white or indigenous groups - such as:
- not being able to associate freely with females within your ethnic group unless accompanied by others, thus preventing the formation of healthy sexual relationships beyond puberty
- not necessarily being allowed to marry the girl of your choice, which leads to sexual frustration if the partner chosen for you turns out not to be compatible (I'm referring to arranged marriage, not forced marriage)
- an attitude towards females where the presumption is that the male is superior, and females should do their bidding (yes, some white individuals have this attitude but it's not a cultural norm)
- the cultural (NOT religious) demands that females should dress conservatively, thus any female not doing so is presumed to be open to approach from the age of puberty; or any female unaccompanied by a suitable relative or friend
These are all established cultural norms. You can deny them if you wish, but collectively they leave some asian males unprepared for the open sexuality of white women. We're brought up to deal with this (some better than others!!) but the lack of respect for the way girls in our culture present themselves in public leads some asian males to see them as being sexually provocative and as a kind of affront to their masculinity if they don't try it on with them
By all means feel free to disagree with this analysis. There's enough sand in the world for everyone to stick their heads into if they choose to do so.
Finally, in discussions with asian friends these points have never once been denied, so challenge them from a white liberal establishment point of view at your own peril
What been occuring ?????????????? on 19:40 - Feb 25 by D_Alien
I don't think we're disagreeing about the basics here, but to repeat (ad nauseum if necessary) there are certain cultural factors at play with the specific crime that the group of men currently on trial in Liverpool are accused of.
These specific cultural factors simply DO NOT EXIST among white or indigenous groups - such as:
- not being able to associate freely with females within your ethnic group unless accompanied by others, thus preventing the formation of healthy sexual relationships beyond puberty
- not necessarily being allowed to marry the girl of your choice, which leads to sexual frustration if the partner chosen for you turns out not to be compatible (I'm referring to arranged marriage, not forced marriage)
- an attitude towards females where the presumption is that the male is superior, and females should do their bidding (yes, some white individuals have this attitude but it's not a cultural norm)
- the cultural (NOT religious) demands that females should dress conservatively, thus any female not doing so is presumed to be open to approach from the age of puberty; or any female unaccompanied by a suitable relative or friend
These are all established cultural norms. You can deny them if you wish, but collectively they leave some asian males unprepared for the open sexuality of white women. We're brought up to deal with this (some better than others!!) but the lack of respect for the way girls in our culture present themselves in public leads some asian males to see them as being sexually provocative and as a kind of affront to their masculinity if they don't try it on with them
By all means feel free to disagree with this analysis. There's enough sand in the world for everyone to stick their heads into if they choose to do so.
Finally, in discussions with asian friends these points have never once been denied, so challenge them from a white liberal establishment point of view at your own peril
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
You have a fantastic insight into why crimes like this continue to happen. It makes interesting and damning reading. I'd vote for you!
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What been occuring ?????????????? on 20:09 - Feb 25 with 2037 views
What been occuring ?????????????? on 19:40 - Feb 25 by D_Alien
I don't think we're disagreeing about the basics here, but to repeat (ad nauseum if necessary) there are certain cultural factors at play with the specific crime that the group of men currently on trial in Liverpool are accused of.
These specific cultural factors simply DO NOT EXIST among white or indigenous groups - such as:
- not being able to associate freely with females within your ethnic group unless accompanied by others, thus preventing the formation of healthy sexual relationships beyond puberty
- not necessarily being allowed to marry the girl of your choice, which leads to sexual frustration if the partner chosen for you turns out not to be compatible (I'm referring to arranged marriage, not forced marriage)
- an attitude towards females where the presumption is that the male is superior, and females should do their bidding (yes, some white individuals have this attitude but it's not a cultural norm)
- the cultural (NOT religious) demands that females should dress conservatively, thus any female not doing so is presumed to be open to approach from the age of puberty; or any female unaccompanied by a suitable relative or friend
These are all established cultural norms. You can deny them if you wish, but collectively they leave some asian males unprepared for the open sexuality of white women. We're brought up to deal with this (some better than others!!) but the lack of respect for the way girls in our culture present themselves in public leads some asian males to see them as being sexually provocative and as a kind of affront to their masculinity if they don't try it on with them
By all means feel free to disagree with this analysis. There's enough sand in the world for everyone to stick their heads into if they choose to do so.
Finally, in discussions with asian friends these points have never once been denied, so challenge them from a white liberal establishment point of view at your own peril
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
If all your posts were as thoughtful, D'Alien, you'd gain more sympathy for your views. The answer is simply that people must act within the law. If you want a "racist" view from a "liberal", they must embrace Western cultural values, otherwise there will, sooner or later, be a conflagration. One thing for certain, they must not be pandered to. Multi-culturalism is a busted flush; we should adopt the French approach. I subscribe entirely to the , "When in Rome" view. To paraphrase Abe Lincoln (on a different subject), we must become all one or the other.
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What been occuring ?????????????? on 20:34 - Feb 25 with 1993 views
What been occuring ?????????????? on 20:09 - Feb 25 by Bobbyjoe
If all your posts were as thoughtful, D'Alien, you'd gain more sympathy for your views. The answer is simply that people must act within the law. If you want a "racist" view from a "liberal", they must embrace Western cultural values, otherwise there will, sooner or later, be a conflagration. One thing for certain, they must not be pandered to. Multi-culturalism is a busted flush; we should adopt the French approach. I subscribe entirely to the , "When in Rome" view. To paraphrase Abe Lincoln (on a different subject), we must become all one or the other.
Here here.
Yours
A Kiwi
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What been occuring ?????????????? on 21:38 - Feb 25 with 1920 views
What been occuring ?????????????? on 20:09 - Feb 25 by Bobbyjoe
If all your posts were as thoughtful, D'Alien, you'd gain more sympathy for your views. The answer is simply that people must act within the law. If you want a "racist" view from a "liberal", they must embrace Western cultural values, otherwise there will, sooner or later, be a conflagration. One thing for certain, they must not be pandered to. Multi-culturalism is a busted flush; we should adopt the French approach. I subscribe entirely to the , "When in Rome" view. To paraphrase Abe Lincoln (on a different subject), we must become all one or the other.
Ah, you know, sometimes I can just can't be arsed going to the trouble of explaining myself when I suspect I'd be wasting my time. On this occasion, the level of responses has been sufficient for me to go the extra mile - apologies if that sounds condescending, it's not directed at you BJ
I believe the treatment of women is quite possibly the key to the whole business of integration. Whilst it's possible for a male from an south-east asian background to marry a white woman (usually providing the woman adopts aspects of the asian culture) it's virtually impossible for an asian woman from some specific groups to marry a white male - both would be under threat of physical violence from the asian community, even if their immediate family accepted the marriage. All it would need would be for one hot-headed male relative to take offence and all hell would break loose.
Only when this wall is broken down will true integration take place.
It's my opinion that the asian cultural issues are based on fear. Fear, that they'll be subsumed within western culture; fear, that their womenfolk - if left to their own devices - would choose to marry into the western model of freedom for women, to have a career and to associate with whom they please. As things stand, the male hegemony suits the leaders just fine - they're predominantly male! There are always exceptions, such as Baroness Warsi and Benazir Bhutto -and she was assassinated because of the threat she posed.
A great deal of the current violence (terrorist attacks, attempts to subjugate vulnerable white women) is the posturing of males under threat that their historical dominance might be coming to an end within their own community.
Sorry VLD, yes I'd read it but then got distracted by later posts!
I'd seen the BBC article when it was published. It does re-inforce the position that males assume within some asian communities. Again, women on their own on the street, or in any way trying to assert their independence, are met with this type of offence - and it's based on fear of women's independence which very few asian males can countenance - for the girl's fathers, brothers and husbands it'd be loss of face within their community - a direct threat to their "honour" and masculinity.
There are very good reasons why all this has developed - the basic need for survival in very poor economic circumstances requires absolute surety of transmission of the familial genes. Any woman who might possibly transgress this by having sex with someone not directly under the control of their family threatens the entire survival of the family. These cultural imperatives survive to this day amongst the asian communities living in the UK and elsewhere.
It's all based on fear. Fear of loss of face, fear of loss of inheritance, fear of loss of their dominant manhood. Hence the violence; against women, against western culture
What been occuring ?????????????? on 14:05 - Feb 24 by HK_Dale
No one thinks bette of the pe!ople who committed the crimes, its vile! However they are being dealt with/have been dealt with the judicial system.
Difference is these cretins are causing criminal damage to property that while linked to these crimes no longer belongs to said individuals or their families. Consequently, it would be like you by virtue or living in a house where a peadophile once lived, had had your windows smashed... Most people, I feel, would find this unacceptable.
There were forty to fifty men involved in this, only 11 could be identified and are on trial, whether they are under new management or not two of the men on trial were still working in heywood up to the trial and it is very likely that some of the other people involved are still working there. the people of heywood are just expressing there understandable anger and making it clear that these men/paedophile/rapists are not wanted here, if you think it is o.k and your happy for them to be in rochdale that is up to you, i don't agree with the smashing of windows and damage to businesses but there is no way a single penny will be going to any of the taxi comapnys or take aways hopefully this will drive them out and you can welcome them back to rochdale.
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What been occuring ?????????????? on 15:20 - Feb 26 with 1747 views
What been occuring ?????????????? on 15:07 - Feb 26 by ceme_ender
There were forty to fifty men involved in this, only 11 could be identified and are on trial, whether they are under new management or not two of the men on trial were still working in heywood up to the trial and it is very likely that some of the other people involved are still working there. the people of heywood are just expressing there understandable anger and making it clear that these men/paedophile/rapists are not wanted here, if you think it is o.k and your happy for them to be in rochdale that is up to you, i don't agree with the smashing of windows and damage to businesses but there is no way a single penny will be going to any of the taxi comapnys or take aways hopefully this will drive them out and you can welcome them back to rochdale.
Well said cemmy ender.The way forward is to boycott these places.It is well documented that Asian shops and food outlets are used for purposes other than origionally intended but nothing is ever done. I dont know if it is just me but has anyone else noticed over the years,how well established "english" owned family businesses that have been around for decades have gone to the wall,yet lots and lots of foriegn establishments where in reality they have next to no custom are still thriving. I find this really strange and unacceptable,theres definitely something not right.Is it the underhand goings on within or do the goverment subsidise them,wrong anyways.
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What been occuring ?????????????? on 15:25 - Feb 26 with 1741 views
What been occuring ?????????????? on 15:20 - Feb 26 by 2bluehoops
Well said cemmy ender.The way forward is to boycott these places.It is well documented that Asian shops and food outlets are used for purposes other than origionally intended but nothing is ever done. I dont know if it is just me but has anyone else noticed over the years,how well established "english" owned family businesses that have been around for decades have gone to the wall,yet lots and lots of foriegn establishments where in reality they have next to no custom are still thriving. I find this really strange and unacceptable,theres definitely something not right.Is it the underhand goings on within or do the goverment subsidise them,wrong anyways.
Just intrigued about how you know how much custom any establishment gets? Have you done a survey or are there some facts to back up such a claim?
What been occuring ?????????????? on 15:07 - Feb 26 by ceme_ender
There were forty to fifty men involved in this, only 11 could be identified and are on trial, whether they are under new management or not two of the men on trial were still working in heywood up to the trial and it is very likely that some of the other people involved are still working there. the people of heywood are just expressing there understandable anger and making it clear that these men/paedophile/rapists are not wanted here, if you think it is o.k and your happy for them to be in rochdale that is up to you, i don't agree with the smashing of windows and damage to businesses but there is no way a single penny will be going to any of the taxi comapnys or take aways hopefully this will drive them out and you can welcome them back to rochdale.
So what about all the decent honest Asians in Rochdale? Why punish all of them for the actions of a minority ? This sort of mentality is dangerous... very dangerous.
Like I said earlier, if these alleged criminals were white, would the reaction be different? Of course it would.
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What been occuring ?????????????? on 17:10 - Feb 26 with 1661 views
What been occuring ?????????????? on 16:18 - Feb 26 by dalenumber2
So what about all the decent honest Asians in Rochdale? Why punish all of them for the actions of a minority ? This sort of mentality is dangerous... very dangerous.
Like I said earlier, if these alleged criminals were white, would the reaction be different? Of course it would.
Yeh,what about boycotting the churches.............religion is a horrible thing.
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