| Shareholders AGM 2024 02:36 - Nov 26 with 5057 views | Sandyman |
As received by shareholders yesterday...
ROCHDALE ASSOCIATION FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED
Directors: C Ogden (Co-Chairman), S Gauge (Co-Chairman), J Willoughby, A Saul, T Pockney, R Knight, M Knight
NOTICE OF 2024 ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING
Notice is hereby given that the 2024 Annual General Meeting of Rochdale Association Football Club Limited will be held as follows.
Type of meeting: The meeting will be held in person.
Date and time of meeting: Tuesday 10 December 2024, 5.30pm start
Place: The Ratcliffe Bars & Function Suite, Sandy Lane, Rochdale, OL11 5DR
The usual, more accessible 7-7:30 start has been done away with. Yes, our shares bought in more difficult times to save the club are pretty much worthless now, not that it matters if the club is safe, but at least give us a bit of respect for what we did and make the meeting easier to attend for shareholders who have day jobs.
I get the impression, given the cancellation of the shareholders forum by Mr Gauge and the early start that many shareholders are now considered an irrelevance to be walked over.
Noted. [Post edited 26 Nov 2:36]
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| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 06:29 - Nov 26 with 4958 views | pioneer |
As I said in a recent post as a shareholder for over 50 years I have never felt as detached from the club as I do now.
This could not happen without the acceptance of the Ogdens even if its being driven by SG. Not even an attempt to explain why this change has been made.
It really is their club now…the rest of us, including the trust, are just customers. |  | | |
| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 07:53 - Nov 26 with 4865 views | 442Dale |
Presumably the Trust, due to the amount of shares they hold and on behalf of the supporters they represent, will question the start time. |  |
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| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 08:05 - Nov 26 with 4852 views | D_Alien |
Also noted that in the article on Dale published in the 'i' paper, SG was described as "the long-standing" chairman. He's been here two minutes, in relative terms and it's clear there's a gaping chasm between him and the majority of shareholders
He should be basking in the glory of having kept the club afloat before the arrival of the Ogdens, but that's not how he'll be remembered
Tbh, i've barely glanced at the AGM email. He's now the main stumbling block between the club acheiving the vision the Ogdens have outlined, as a community-focused going concern and having full alignment with the fanbase, whether shareholders or not [Post edited 26 Nov 8:07]
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| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 08:15 - Nov 26 with 4822 views | judd |
It is disappointing that the meeting start time is not offset by the ability to attend via Teams. |  |
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| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 10:10 - Nov 26 with 4632 views | Rodingdale |
…and so it continues, and it will, as long as SG runs the day to day. | | | |
| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 10:52 - Nov 26 with 4538 views | dawlishdale |
This is quite rude from the BOD, and pays little heed to those of us who helped to place them in position and invested not inconsiderable sums of money ourselves.
Who is now acting Chair of the Trust and what is the point of continuing to have Board representation if things like this are allowed to happen? I doubt this would have gone unquestioned in the past.
Comes a close second to the "no reserved stickers on seats" fiasco. | | | |
| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 15:15 - Nov 26 with 4193 views | wozzrafc |
It is unfortunate that the board have changed the format of the AGM, although the change in the ownership of the club means we have a majority shareholder that makes the passing of any motions fairly straightforward. It is about perception.
I wonder if the Ogdens may not be able to commit to both an AGM and a Fans forum and feel the Fans forum lets them reach more fans? Personally if they want to keep the AGM for company proceedings then that’s fine,but either way it’s about communication. Again I wonder if the Ogdens are aware of how past AGMs have worked.
However the important thing now is the questions that need to be asked are asked. The top of that list is the role of the trust and confirming the commitment to a golden share. I don’t have any doubt that the Ogdens would go back on this but it still needs to be pursued as the trusts No1 objective.
I’m would assume the trust would be consulting members before the AGM. I think it’s important that questions are asked in the AOB section if it is not broached during the AGM. | | | |
| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 17:09 - Nov 26 with 4006 views | 49thseason |
Much ado about nothing. That there is so little to discuss compared to recent AGMs simply means the ship is out of choppy waters and the board are concentrating on other, bigger "stuff" . The day to day irritations are for discussion at a fans forum at an appropriate time, not the legally required AGM . . No news is good news.. the club is in safe hands. |  | | |
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| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 17:28 - Nov 26 with 3977 views | 442Dale |
| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 17:09 - Nov 26 by 49thseason |
Much ado about nothing. That there is so little to discuss compared to recent AGMs simply means the ship is out of choppy waters and the board are concentrating on other, bigger "stuff" . The day to day irritations are for discussion at a fans forum at an appropriate time, not the legally required AGM . . No news is good news.. the club is in safe hands. |
Sorry? Who determines whether there is “little to discuss”? AGMs have been held when the club was at its most successful whilst ensuring there was a feeling of inclusiveness for shareholders.
Missing the point. Again.
Anyway, there’s a fans forum seven weeks after the AGM (following on from the Trust stating “ A date for a Fans Forum will closely follow the AGM”)
https://rochdaleafc.co.uk/agm2024fansforum2025/
The point about questions being asked in AOB is noted and addressed as follows:
“ Shareholders will have the opportunity to ask the Board of Directors questions relating to the business of the AGM, this time under the ‘any other business’ section of the meeting.”
Surely “any other business” is exactly that? | |
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| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 17:52 - Nov 26 with 3894 views | Dale_4_Life |
Post Covid the working landscape has changed dramatically.
Why not 5.30pm? seems a decent time to me with plenty of notice. We are in the age of flexible working and employers having to consider reasonable requests for earlier finishes or time off.
If shareholders want to attend I don't see why a start time 2 hours earlier would prevent many from attending. A nice sensible finish time too with no rushed AOB. | | | |
| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 18:24 - Nov 26 with 3816 views | 442Dale |
| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 17:52 - Nov 26 by Dale_4_Life |
Post Covid the working landscape has changed dramatically.
Why not 5.30pm? seems a decent time to me with plenty of notice. We are in the age of flexible working and employers having to consider reasonable requests for earlier finishes or time off.
If shareholders want to attend I don't see why a start time 2 hours earlier would prevent many from attending. A nice sensible finish time too with no rushed AOB. |
Have you a list of companies who operate this flexible working with examples of Dale fans who can make the most of this?
I’m not saying there aren’t, but there are plenty who can’t. And if it was taking advantage of changes post-Covid, it would be available for shareholders to attend on Teams as Judd says.
There’s a lot of generalising going on here and personal preference. The focus should be on positively engaging as many fans/shareholders as possible. [Post edited 26 Nov 18:25]
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| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 19:32 - Nov 26 with 3655 views | nordenblue |
| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 17:52 - Nov 26 by Dale_4_Life |
Post Covid the working landscape has changed dramatically.
Why not 5.30pm? seems a decent time to me with plenty of notice. We are in the age of flexible working and employers having to consider reasonable requests for earlier finishes or time off.
If shareholders want to attend I don't see why a start time 2 hours earlier would prevent many from attending. A nice sensible finish time too with no rushed AOB. |
This "working landscape" you talk about is also reverting back to the more original office based for many roles as some of the larger companies have finally cottoned onto the fact a lot of staff do not do a great deal whilst "working" from home, as a result this whole hybrid type working week is getting binned, again this would be a problem if more folk are now in the office it would be a problem getting to Spotland for 17.30 for many folk, not to mention the traffic is horrendous at that hour of the day. [Post edited 26 Nov 20:24]
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| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 23:18 - Nov 26 with 3413 views | Sandyman |
| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 17:09 - Nov 26 by 49thseason |
Much ado about nothing. That there is so little to discuss compared to recent AGMs simply means the ship is out of choppy waters and the board are concentrating on other, bigger "stuff" . The day to day irritations are for discussion at a fans forum at an appropriate time, not the legally required AGM . . No news is good news.. the club is in safe hands. |
I do hope the "ship" is in safe hands. I think it is. It was for years, with some superb gentlemen at the helm. We let it sail on.
Post-Bottomley / A.Kilpatrick / Rawlinson et al, it is difficult to be fully trusting. We do need to remain attentive and questioning as shareholders and supporters as to the affairs of the club, be it at a fans forum, Trust meeting or AGM / EGM. We have to learn from what nearly happened here and did happen at bury. The consequences of doing otherwise could be serious. Never forget. Remain vigilant. | | | |
| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 21:23 - Dec 14 with 2094 views | pioneer |
| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 23:18 - Nov 26 by Sandyman |
I do hope the "ship" is in safe hands. I think it is. It was for years, with some superb gentlemen at the helm. We let it sail on.
Post-Bottomley / A.Kilpatrick / Rawlinson et al, it is difficult to be fully trusting. We do need to remain attentive and questioning as shareholders and supporters as to the affairs of the club, be it at a fans forum, Trust meeting or AGM / EGM. We have to learn from what nearly happened here and did happen at bury. The consequences of doing otherwise could be serious. Never forget. Remain vigilant. |
Problem is the fans andfa-shareholders haveb been stripped of their power to do anything. Iif ogdens decided to sell to a shyster their is nothing we could do about it.
That was the price paid for the Ogdens coming on board and the pilot saving face. | | | |
| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 22:50 - Dec 14 with 1982 views | wozzrafc |
| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 21:23 - Dec 14 by pioneer |
Problem is the fans andfa-shareholders haveb been stripped of their power to do anything. Iif ogdens decided to sell to a shyster their is nothing we could do about it.
That was the price paid for the Ogdens coming on board and the pilot saving face. |
Not if the Ogdens are true to their word and give the trust a golden share. Nothing they have done so far suggests they will back down on this promise | | | |
| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 23:03 - Dec 14 with 1939 views | D_Alien |
| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 22:50 - Dec 14 by wozzrafc |
Not if the Ogdens are true to their word and give the trust a golden share. Nothing they have done so far suggests they will back down on this promise |
As per the "discussion" on here in midweek, this will be seen as the arbiter of how the relationship between owners and fans can move forward
It needs to be established how this will come about - not as a promise, but as a fact, a reality
Having "the Trust" as the holders of the Golden Share suggests the Ogdens see the Trust as it is, and has been known, for many years now
It's unlikely to be offered to any other body, but this all needs to be fully set out and communicated, along with a timeline | |
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| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 08:52 - Dec 15 with 1759 views | Dalenet |
The shareholders have been asked to keep the accounts confidential and so I will respect that request. For all the disappointment on the way the AGM will be held, and the decision to stop auditing the accounts, the detail around costs and expenditure was more transparent than I think we have ever seen. You can see just how much the two relegations have cost us and how revenue from away fans has fallen now we are non league. I was also surprised that the playing budget last season was a low as it was. There is so much potential to drive income up through success on the field. When we compare the data from 4 years ago, it is chalk and cheese. But I certainly welcomed the transparency in the AGM pack. | | | |
| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 09:10 - Dec 15 with 1721 views | wozzrafc |
| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 23:03 - Dec 14 by D_Alien |
As per the "discussion" on here in midweek, this will be seen as the arbiter of how the relationship between owners and fans can move forward
It needs to be established how this will come about - not as a promise, but as a fact, a reality
Having "the Trust" as the holders of the Golden Share suggests the Ogdens see the Trust as it is, and has been known, for many years now
It's unlikely to be offered to any other body, but this all needs to be fully set out and communicated, along with a timeline |
100%. Agree
This has to be followed through and written into the clubs constitution.
I’m sure the trust will be discussing this with the club. The sooner that is in place the better. However with the football bill about to be passed it maybe both parties are waiting to see what is in the ledgistration before finalising what form the that golden share will take.
We are still in the early days of the Ogdens stewardship but already they have shown their commitment to the club, the foundations are being put in place.
I get the frustration around the AGM, Yes 100% the trust and the shareholders need to hold the board to account. But we are miles away from any suggestion that the Ogdens will somehow back out of their promises.
I would hope that the fans forum planned will be as open and honest as they have been in the past. Concerns can be addressed and relationships with the Ogdens and the fans can be formed. | | | |
| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 10:14 - Dec 15 with 1622 views | D_Alien |
| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 09:10 - Dec 15 by wozzrafc |
100%. Agree
This has to be followed through and written into the clubs constitution.
I’m sure the trust will be discussing this with the club. The sooner that is in place the better. However with the football bill about to be passed it maybe both parties are waiting to see what is in the ledgistration before finalising what form the that golden share will take.
We are still in the early days of the Ogdens stewardship but already they have shown their commitment to the club, the foundations are being put in place.
I get the frustration around the AGM, Yes 100% the trust and the shareholders need to hold the board to account. But we are miles away from any suggestion that the Ogdens will somehow back out of their promises.
I would hope that the fans forum planned will be as open and honest as they have been in the past. Concerns can be addressed and relationships with the Ogdens and the fans can be formed. |
Good point about legislation involving a regulator, and the club may be awaiting the fine detail, but provision of a GS needn't be contingent upon something that may not happen, or just be "kicked into the long grass" due to other government priorities
Communicating this would be simple and uncontroversial | |
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| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 12:34 - Dec 15 with 1493 views | judd |
We have nothing to worry about re the Golden share offer. It was stated at the last forum that this issue would have to be incorporated into the clubs articles of association and accepted by shareholders at a general meeting.
See the York experience here
https://www.ycst.org.uk/golden-share-process-complete/
Anyone who has seen our existing articles would need to be expert in hieroglyphics in order to interrrogate them, although one stalwart has painstakingly written them up in a very helpful Word document, which has been submitted to Jamie.
As.a poster above has already posted, the clarity of the accounts submitted to shareholders is something to behold and as the accompanying email states, this meeting is an outlier. We can expect a much more shareholder friendly approach to general.meetings next year. The Trust did push for the AGM to be held nearer the accounts filing date,.and last year had to remind the board in November for the need to actually hold an AGM. | |
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| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 16:42 - Dec 15 with 1338 views | wozzrafc |
| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 12:34 - Dec 15 by judd |
We have nothing to worry about re the Golden share offer. It was stated at the last forum that this issue would have to be incorporated into the clubs articles of association and accepted by shareholders at a general meeting.
See the York experience here
https://www.ycst.org.uk/golden-share-process-complete/
Anyone who has seen our existing articles would need to be expert in hieroglyphics in order to interrrogate them, although one stalwart has painstakingly written them up in a very helpful Word document, which has been submitted to Jamie.
As.a poster above has already posted, the clarity of the accounts submitted to shareholders is something to behold and as the accompanying email states, this meeting is an outlier. We can expect a much more shareholder friendly approach to general.meetings next year. The Trust did push for the AGM to be held nearer the accounts filing date,.and last year had to remind the board in November for the need to actually hold an AGM. |
That’s good to hear judd. | | | |
| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 19:35 - Dec 15 with 1228 views | pioneer |
Isnt the golden share something to do with preventing the ground being sold for non football purposes or does it extend beyond that?
If its limited to the ground then it wouldnt stop current owners selling the club to whoever they chose would it?
Until the golden share actually happens I suppose we dont know the answer. Devil in the details. | | | |
| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 19:51 - Dec 15 with 1192 views | judd |
| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 19:35 - Dec 15 by pioneer |
Isnt the golden share something to do with preventing the ground being sold for non football purposes or does it extend beyond that?
If its limited to the ground then it wouldnt stop current owners selling the club to whoever they chose would it?
Until the golden share actually happens I suppose we dont know the answer. Devil in the details. |
The purpose of the Golden share is to provide protection against unscrupulous owners, which we do not have.
It is a generational investment, and although things can change, our ownership is borne out of philanthropic principles and not on making a healthy return.
We have got extremely lucky, in my opinion. We should embrace it, even if we have to exercise some patience.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fan-led-review-of-football-governance | |
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| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 20:34 - Dec 15 with 1127 views | pioneer |
| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 19:51 - Dec 15 by judd |
The purpose of the Golden share is to provide protection against unscrupulous owners, which we do not have.
It is a generational investment, and although things can change, our ownership is borne out of philanthropic principles and not on making a healthy return.
We have got extremely lucky, in my opinion. We should embrace it, even if we have to exercise some patience.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fan-led-review-of-football-governance |
Thanks for posting the link, but I dont see how it prevents the club being sold to unscroupolous owners. It seems to relate to preventing owners doing unscroupolous things (selling ground, moving leagues, changing name, colours etc). But it doesnt seem to have anything to say about change of ownership. Also it doesnt prevent what one were scrupolous owners becoming unscrupolous.
I am not against the notion of the golden share, on the contrary its a good thing. But I dont see it restricting who the club can be sold to, beyond exiting provisions of directos tests etc and we know they are pretty useless. | | | |
| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 21:30 - Dec 15 with 1057 views | judd |
| Shareholders AGM 2024 on 20:34 - Dec 15 by pioneer |
Thanks for posting the link, but I dont see how it prevents the club being sold to unscroupolous owners. It seems to relate to preventing owners doing unscroupolous things (selling ground, moving leagues, changing name, colours etc). But it doesnt seem to have anything to say about change of ownership. Also it doesnt prevent what one were scrupolous owners becoming unscrupolous.
I am not against the notion of the golden share, on the contrary its a good thing. But I dont see it restricting who the club can be sold to, beyond exiting provisions of directos tests etc and we know they are pretty useless. |
It doesn't prevent such a scenario.
However, we have in place owners of the highest integrity with a commitment to providing the Golden share and looking to implement all the positives from the fan led review. | |
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