| The Bigger Picture 08:30 - Nov 17 with 3561 views | Rodingdale |
For me, McNulty is just a symptom of the problem. On the pitch, he’s doing alright, not bad but not great, and the jury is out, as anyone who attends games at the COA knows. Is he getting the best out of what appears to be a decent group of players? Not sure. After yesterdays poor performance and defeat at third from bottom of the table Wealdstone, he blamed the pitch and the referee for a ‘low level’ ’rubbish game’ - well I don’t want to come across all Roy Keane, but isn’t it his job to plan for the park pitch, select a team from a fairly large squad to cope with the erm, non league pitch, with a non league referee? (Who aside from the thrice taken corner incident, did a good job of letting the game flow) Surely a manager with aspirations to be a League One manager would have? But I think, for the board, McNulty is doing ok, punching above his budget, and they’re turning a blind eye to growing fan discontent at fluctuating levels of performance and his often nonsensical post match interviews.
In my view the real problem is we have a dysfunctional leadership structure at the club. With the Ogden family, driving forward a new agenda, a push to regain our league status, rebuild the clubs off the field activities to become a community asset which is financially viable. Then the old Board in Rochdale, dominated by Simon Gauge, ostensibly running the day to day operations while the long term plan is being put together.
The Ogden part of the operation is clearly articulated; a visionary statement early in the season, followed by last weeks Radio Manchester interview. Feedback from those who have met the family report they are a personable bunch, wanting to engage with fans.
Meanwhile, back at the Crown Oil, little has changed since the dark days of last season. Season tickets were put on sale, with little promotion, despite a stated desire to grow attendances at the COA. Merchandise wasn’t available until the season had started. There was the stickers on seats debacle, resolved by intervention of the trust and posters on this messageboard volunteering to assist. Despite the sterling efforts of Anthony and his hospitality team, the Matchday experience remains limited, with ageing facilities hampering improvements and an air of ‘well it’s all going to take some time’. Anthony continues to perform miracles, but it feels to be despite the club hierarchy. Then there was the away travel episode, with the trust having to step in, at the time I was told “There is a propensity for the existing leadership to make things difficult for supporters - away travel being a case in point, such that the Ogdens have asked the Trust to run it with subsidy direct from their Trust funds.” Then the match day ticketing system which is by many accounts semi functional.
More concerning, the recent ‘minor’ changes to the AGM with the removal of the shareholders forum. Put together with the removal of the requirement for audited accounts, transparency it seems is something the Board aren’t keen on. This brings into focus the role and function of the Trust, whose influence feels to have been seriously depleted by the standing down of the Chair, who was instrumental in the process leading to the Ogdens introduction to the club. The Trust member on the board, frankly isn’t working, in the current Board. If it was effective, then the issues I mention wouldn’t be happening. A strong fan voice organisation is critical for any club with intentions to become more relevant in its community; likewise if attendances are to grow. In other sectors, businesses actively support and build capacity in their customer voice, which seen as a resource (not a hindrance) this includes funding for training and paid roles. Something, if the Ogdens are to succeed, we will need to adopt here. Asking fans to step up taking time out of their lives without support, isn’t going to move us forward, we can carry on as we are, burning out passionate individuals- Col - George, but long term, to grow a Trust which advises the Board on the paying customers perspective- it will need the club to invest in it. We grow together.
So my conclusion is we have a lack of cohesion at the top of our club, one going fast, focussed on the future; the other going slow, stuck in the past, holding onto their historic status. The sense is we are paying a heavy price for saving faces, and in my experience those arrangements are time limited anyway; and in healthy businesses, difficult decisions are taken early, otherwise progress is stifled.
To my mind, we need to completely overhaul the leadership and management of the club. With a clear single message from Cameron Ogden as sole chairman, supported by a CEO who works closely and crucially locally, answerable to a revamped board and a properly resourced management team responsible for delivery of the business plan and including a Director of Football type role to assist the Head coach. Alignment of purpose is critical to our success on and off the pitch and we don’t have that at the moment.
We have neighbours from down the 627 visiting on Saturday, a fixture where last season there were some fairly unpleasant scenes in the away end, resulting in part, from downright bad behaviour, but handled poorly by weak stewarding, who as is often the case, when larger away followings arrive at the COA, fans were allowed to congregate on concourses close to the pitch. I understand the Ogden family will be attending the game on Saturday, wouldn’t it be a shame if poor stewarding marred their experience with a repeat of last seasons scenes. I hope that the board are all over this, and measures put in place to prevent a repeat, but, well I think you know where I’m going with this…..
Up the Dale
[Post edited 17 Nov 8:43]
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| The Bigger Picture (n/t) on 08:49 - Nov 17 with 3481 views | TalkingSutty |
[Post edited 17 Nov 8:56]
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| The Bigger Picture on 08:55 - Nov 17 with 3448 views | TalkingSutty |
Fantastic post and thanks for your time in composing it. It would be great if you and other supporters could forward something similar to Cameron Ogden. The opportunities to question how the club is being run are being closed down, the decision to remove the shareholder forum is the best example of that. Who made that decision, was it Cameron Ogden? A fans forum isn't the best platform to discuss in detail the things that need addressing so fans are left to find other ways of channelling their concerns. No good submitting a question to the Trust, if its going to upset somebody in the Boardroom it won't get asked and it certainly wont get challenged. So there's nowhere else to go apart from straight to the source. The Ogdens own the Club, they need to know how shareholders and fans feel in respect to how their club is being run. We have two Chairman, i have no faith in Simon Gauge after his last performance at the AGM, so i'll direct any concerns i have to Cameron Ogden. [Post edited 17 Nov 9:18]
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| The Bigger Picture on 12:15 - Nov 17 with 3091 views | D_Alien |
At last... these issues are being properly discussed
There's been plenty of hints before, and i've already said what i think of those who trot out the "don't rock the boat" line - they're part of the problem, in that nothing will change unless there's healthy and open debate (it's a bit like the recent US election, and look what happens when you try to shut down debate...)
CO and family have plenty of other business concerns, and i suspect they're only just beginning to realise the full extent of what they've taken on; giving the SG-led board scope with the day-to-day stuff without having insight (initially) on the lack of fan engagement which - as said - is absolutely key to the growth of the club as they envisage it. So this is where the football comes in. JM will not grow the crowds unless he turns around the lack of consistency, which any team aspiring to promotion has to do. Yes, first year of a three year plan - which is in place with or without him
if realism is now taking hold, thank goodness. Dark clouds and all that... |  |
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| The Bigger Picture on 13:03 - Nov 17 with 2971 views | Edindale |
If our meandering and inconsistency continues much longer then it is likely that CO will run out of patience with our stop start performances. If he is promoting the club to business associates his credibility will increasingly be at stake both on and off the pitch!
Cutting through the many constructive comments currently being made on here in relation to the 3 Year Plan, ultimately it is a results business and this is the number one priority. Together with an attractive style of play and goals it will attract increasing numbers to the COA.
Unfortunately unless BJ shows greater flexibility and adaptability he will cut his own throat. He has signed good players but our tactical limitations are being exposed on a more regular basis by workmanlike outfits such as Wealdstone.
The quality of his signings has been good but it does not look as if they are gelling quite as expected possibly due to numbers. There are also signs of frustration in the body language of some individuals. We are not too far away but desperately need a leader in the middle of the park as we are too nice to play against.
Is the club really punching above its weight in budgetary terms? The next two games provide a valuable litmus test for where exactly we are if they are on. Given our inconsistency I expect a win and a loss but not necessarily in that order.
The honeymoon period is well and truly over. | | | |
| The Bigger Picture on 13:20 - Nov 17 with 2890 views | TalkingSutty |
| The Bigger Picture on 13:03 - Nov 17 by Edindale |
If our meandering and inconsistency continues much longer then it is likely that CO will run out of patience with our stop start performances. If he is promoting the club to business associates his credibility will increasingly be at stake both on and off the pitch!
Cutting through the many constructive comments currently being made on here in relation to the 3 Year Plan, ultimately it is a results business and this is the number one priority. Together with an attractive style of play and goals it will attract increasing numbers to the COA.
Unfortunately unless BJ shows greater flexibility and adaptability he will cut his own throat. He has signed good players but our tactical limitations are being exposed on a more regular basis by workmanlike outfits such as Wealdstone.
The quality of his signings has been good but it does not look as if they are gelling quite as expected possibly due to numbers. There are also signs of frustration in the body language of some individuals. We are not too far away but desperately need a leader in the middle of the park as we are too nice to play against.
Is the club really punching above its weight in budgetary terms? The next two games provide a valuable litmus test for where exactly we are if they are on. Given our inconsistency I expect a win and a loss but not necessarily in that order.
The honeymoon period is well and truly over. |
Punching above our weight in terms of budget? I believe Wealdstone are a part time outfit and they beat us comfortably yesterday. At no point did we look like scoring. Apart from the win at Fylde i can't remember when we last put in a good performance that resulted in a win. Halifax had us chasing shadows, we dug in and managed to win the game. We scored the injury time winner with our only shot on target during the second half last week. Neither could be classed as good performances. Hartlepool away was the last good league performance i think. [Post edited 17 Nov 13:22]
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| The Bigger Picture on 13:38 - Nov 17 with 2803 views | Rodingdale |
| The Bigger Picture on 13:20 - Nov 17 by TalkingSutty |
Punching above our weight in terms of budget? I believe Wealdstone are a part time outfit and they beat us comfortably yesterday. At no point did we look like scoring. Apart from the win at Fylde i can't remember when we last put in a good performance that resulted in a win. Halifax had us chasing shadows, we dug in and managed to win the game. We scored the injury time winner with our only shot on target during the second half last week. Neither could be classed as good performances. Hartlepool away was the last good league performance i think. [Post edited 17 Nov 13:22]
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8 mins in CO interview with Radio Manchester, CO “We are achieving better than what our budget is at the moment, and I thank Jim for that” | | | |
| The Bigger Picture on 13:39 - Nov 17 with 2803 views | EllDale |
The squad is far too too heavy in terms of wide players.
The problem isn’t perhaps tactical flexibility but motivation at long distance away fixtures. | | | |
| The Bigger Picture on 13:48 - Nov 17 with 2767 views | TVOS1907 |
| The Bigger Picture on 13:39 - Nov 17 by EllDale |
The squad is far too too heavy in terms of wide players.
The problem isn’t perhaps tactical flexibility but motivation at long distance away fixtures. |
The second point is rather moot, given we won at Yeovil and Aldershot. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| The Bigger Picture on 13:49 - Nov 17 with 2762 views | 442Dale |
With particular reference to the thread title, concerns have appeared over the last week that illustrate the importance of looking at the whole club.
- the rumour and uncertainty around Burton’s approach, something not addressed by the club until CO’s interview with Radio Manchester. If we couldn’t say anything as part of any agreement with Burton, he wouldn’t have said anything. Similarly, McNulty wouldn’t have made the comments he did if that was the case.
- the total lack of challenge or understandable explanation from the Trust/club around the AGM changes.
Individually or together some may not see any great issues here but it speaks of that bigger picture where communication and respect for supporters interest doesn’t appear to be regarded as important.
On the football side, McNulty has a big task ahead of him because the inconsistencies in results are matching those on selection. A headache created by, in my opinion, too many options and players.
The Halifax game illustrated how we can get results when it’s a battle, but where is that on a regular basis when we don’t play the football the squad is capable of?
We’re still doing ok, but there’s a definite correlation between on and off the pitch doubts. |  |
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| The Bigger Picture on 13:50 - Nov 17 with 2762 views | TalkingSutty |
| The Bigger Picture on 13:38 - Nov 17 by Rodingdale |
8 mins in CO interview with Radio Manchester, CO “We are achieving better than what our budget is at the moment, and I thank Jim for that” |
Yes, i get that, a competitive budget in respect of aiming for a play off place was how it was described during the summer. He mentioned improving on last season, that should have us in or around the play offs. I think that's what the fan base expect when you speak on matchdays and listening to numerous interviews from the players i think that they expect the same thing. I havent heard anybody say they dont expect us to finish in the play offs to be honest. We certainly shouldn't be seeing the type of performances that we saw yesterday. Maybe McNulty has spoken with Cameron last week prior to the radio interviews and expectations have now been reset. [Post edited 17 Nov 13:52]
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| The Bigger Picture on 13:53 - Nov 17 with 2739 views | 49thseason |
Interesting observations but genuine discussion is hampered by a lack of real information. 3 years to get back to the EFL and 5 years to become self- sustaining off the pitch are ambitions that may prove to be beyond our capabilitiesand take longer than planned. However, at least it is aspirational and signals intent, something we haven't had for donkeys years, if ever.
Achieving these ambitions may take longer than many seem to think they will, but there is no devine right to promotion and the cash required will be affected by economic headwinds particularly bearing in mind this is one of the poorest towns in the country and " benefits" from a council that has neither the vision nor political will to see an opportunity when it kicks the door in.
Much of this will be outwith the previous experience of the Ogdens despite their deep roots in Rochdales soil. They will learn quickly, I have no doubt, but their initial enthusiasm will undoubtedly be slapped in the face by the reality of dragging a club and town with a "can't do" attitude into higher realms.
As long suffering fans, our fortnightly traipse to the COA is a sort of medieval pilgramage, generally miserable with occasional excitement and the sustinance of beer and pies enjoyed in the company of friends and acquaintances. How we long for a new Jenkins, Taylor, Lambert , Holt or a Henderson in his pomp. Someone the kids of today will talk about to their kids, somehow I dont think Mitchell and Rodney will quite fit the bill. Essentially the fayre on offer is mediocre stodge, designed to subsist but not thrive.
The imagination being applied behind the scenes is not being replicated on the pitch , but what did we expect? Turning a supertanker around is a huge task, hopefully the promised changes will soon be put infront of us and the renewal will begin in earnest, the longer it takes the more the sense of unrest will grow.
Montgomery explained leadership with a piece of string laid on a table, if you push from the back end it goes where it likes, if you pull it from the front, it goes where you want it to... simple, we need more, clear, unambiguous leadership with a clear destination, route map, sufficient petrol in the tank and the manpower to do the job, I fear we have a way to go yet....but like good pilgrims, we keep the faith and we keep on keeping on, what else can we do? [Post edited 17 Nov 14:51]
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| The Bigger Picture on 13:58 - Nov 17 with 2708 views | 442Dale |
| The Bigger Picture on 13:53 - Nov 17 by 49thseason |
Interesting observations but genuine discussion is hampered by a lack of real information. 3 years to get back to the EFL and 5 years to become self- sustaining off the pitch are ambitions that may prove to be beyond our capabilitiesand take longer than planned. However, at least it is aspirational and signals intent, something we haven't had for donkeys years, if ever.
Achieving these ambitions may take longer than many seem to think they will, but there is no devine right to promotion and the cash required will be affected by economic headwinds particularly bearing in mind this is one of the poorest towns in the country and " benefits" from a council that has neither the vision nor political will to see an opportunity when it kicks the door in.
Much of this will be outwith the previous experience of the Ogdens despite their deep roots in Rochdales soil. They will learn quickly, I have no doubt, but their initial enthusiasm will undoubtedly be slapped in the face by the reality of dragging a club and town with a "can't do" attitude into higher realms.
As long suffering fans, our fortnightly traipse to the COA is a sort of medieval pilgramage, generally miserable with occasional excitement and the sustinance of beer and pies enjoyed in the company of friends and acquaintances. How we long for a new Jenkins, Taylor, Lambert , Holt or a Henderson in his pomp. Someone the kids of today will talk about to their kids, somehow I dont think Mitchell and Rodney will quite fit the bill. Essentially the fayre on offer is mediocre stodge, designed to subsist but not thrive.
The imagination being applied behind the scenes is not being replicated on the pitch , but what did we expect? Turning a supertanker around is a huge task, hopefully the promised changes will soon be put infront of us and the renewal will begin in earnest, the longer it takes the more the sense of unrest will grow.
Montgomery explained leadership with a piece of string laid on a table, if you push from the back end it goes where it likes, if you pull it from the front, it goes where you want it to... simple, we need more, clear, unambiguous leadership with a clear destination, route map, sufficient petrol in the tank and the manpower to do the job, I fear we have a way to go yet....but like good pilgrims, we keep the faith and we keep on keeping on, what else can we do? [Post edited 17 Nov 14:51]
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While agreeing with a lot of points around the club’s direction, there’s a certain amount of revisionist history based on reminiscing about great players. Taylor, Lambert and Holt all played in very average sides. And Kairo Mitchell was reaching ‘we can’t let him be sold in January’ status amongst some a few weeks ago. | |
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| The Bigger Picture on 14:08 - Nov 17 with 2658 views | D_Alien |
| The Bigger Picture on 13:53 - Nov 17 by 49thseason |
Interesting observations but genuine discussion is hampered by a lack of real information. 3 years to get back to the EFL and 5 years to become self- sustaining off the pitch are ambitions that may prove to be beyond our capabilitiesand take longer than planned. However, at least it is aspirational and signals intent, something we haven't had for donkeys years, if ever.
Achieving these ambitions may take longer than many seem to think they will, but there is no devine right to promotion and the cash required will be affected by economic headwinds particularly bearing in mind this is one of the poorest towns in the country and " benefits" from a council that has neither the vision nor political will to see an opportunity when it kicks the door in.
Much of this will be outwith the previous experience of the Ogdens despite their deep roots in Rochdales soil. They will learn quickly, I have no doubt, but their initial enthusiasm will undoubtedly be slapped in the face by the reality of dragging a club and town with a "can't do" attitude into higher realms.
As long suffering fans, our fortnightly traipse to the COA is a sort of medieval pilgramage, generally miserable with occasional excitement and the sustinance of beer and pies enjoyed in the company of friends and acquaintances. How we long for a new Jenkins, Taylor, Lambert , Holt or a Henderson in his pomp. Someone the kids of today will talk about to their kids, somehow I dont think Mitchell and Rodney will quite fit the bill. Essentially the fayre on offer is mediocre stodge, designed to subsist but not thrive.
The imagination being applied behind the scenes is not being replicated on the pitch , but what did we expect? Turning a supertanker around is a huge task, hopefully the promised changes will soon be put infront of us and the renewal will begin in earnest, the longer it takes the more the sense of unrest will grow.
Montgomery explained leadership with a piece of string laid on a table, if you push from the back end it goes where it likes, if you pull it from the front, it goes where you want it to... simple, we need more, clear, unambiguous leadership with a clear destination, route map, sufficient petrol in the tank and the manpower to do the job, I fear we have a way to go yet....but like good pilgrims, we keep the faith and we keep on keeping on, what else can we do? [Post edited 17 Nov 14:51]
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Ernest... ?
We could do with a new Ernie Cooksey | |
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| The Bigger Picture on 14:52 - Nov 17 with 2531 views | EllDale |
| The Bigger Picture on 13:48 - Nov 17 by TVOS1907 |
The second point is rather moot, given we won at Yeovil and Aldershot. |
Perhaps I should have qualified it by saying trips to teams in the lower reaches of the league table. | | | |
| The Bigger Picture on 14:54 - Nov 17 with 2521 views | 49thseason |
| The Bigger Picture on 14:08 - Nov 17 by D_Alien |
Ernest... ?
We could do with a new Ernie Cooksey |
Well spotted, my copy checking isn't what it used to be....but yes, Ernie would have been a wonder at this level.... | | | |
| The Bigger Picture on 15:02 - Nov 17 with 2484 views | TVOS1907 |
| The Bigger Picture on 14:52 - Nov 17 by EllDale |
Perhaps I should have qualified it by saying trips to teams in the lower reaches of the league table. |
Like Boston and AFC Fylde in the FA Cup? | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| The Bigger Picture on 15:05 - Nov 17 with 2460 views | EllDale |
Boston weren’t in the bottom four when we went on the first game of the season so perhaps motivation wasn’t as issue that day. | | | |
| The Bigger Picture on 15:11 - Nov 17 with 2410 views | TVOS1907 |
| The Bigger Picture on 15:05 - Nov 17 by EllDale |
Boston weren’t in the bottom four when we went on the first game of the season so perhaps motivation wasn’t as issue that day. |
No, but I think your point is still moot.
Yesterday was poor, undoubtedly the poorest performance of the season, but to suggest it points to a lack of motivation or whatever against a bottom four team just isn't right and has no basis whatsoever, in my opinion. Wealdstone have also hit a bit of form if you look at their recent results, which have been better than ours.
I presume you're also referring to Ebbsfleet, whom we completely dominated for an hour, held a 2-0 lead and should have been looking at doing what Solihull did yesterday, until an errant pass from Gordon to Ferguson completely changed the game for 5 minutes. There was no lack of motivation that day either, but instead a bad mistake that led to us dropping two points. [Post edited 17 Nov 15:13]
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| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| The Bigger Picture on 15:20 - Nov 17 with 2350 views | EllDale |
Fair enough, I accept your valid points. | | | |
| The Bigger Picture on 16:58 - Nov 17 with 2132 views | Dale69er |
Seems to me that there is some unfair criticism of Murray re the removal of the fans forum. He is one of seven directors, so if a majority of the others wanted to remove the fans forum element of the AGM then it would happen.
Without seeing minutes of thr relevant board meeting we don't who voted for what, but I've no doubt Murray will have put forward the shareholder fans point of view. |  | | |
| The Bigger Picture on 17:47 - Nov 17 with 2013 views | 442Dale |
| The Bigger Picture on 16:58 - Nov 17 by Dale69er |
Seems to me that there is some unfair criticism of Murray re the removal of the fans forum. He is one of seven directors, so if a majority of the others wanted to remove the fans forum element of the AGM then it would happen.
Without seeing minutes of thr relevant board meeting we don't who voted for what, but I've no doubt Murray will have put forward the shareholder fans point of view. |
There was a Trust board meeting with the club, irrespective of what happened at any club board meeting. The Trust reported the following in their last newsletter:
https://www.daletrust.co.uk/november-2024-news-letter/
“Simon opened the meeting by providing an update on future changes to the format of AGM’s. This will comprise a corporate/business agenda only to meet the essential requirements of an AGM, rather than in the past, incorporating a fans forum element, available to shareholders only. A Fans Forum will take place, at a date following the AGM, attendance to which will be open to a wider audience than shareholders only.”
This was raised at the Trust AGM last weekend, and reported as follows:
https://www.daletrust.co.uk/2024/11/trust-2024-agm/
“ Reference was made to the statement made by the Club regarding the new format of future AGMs, without the opportunity of a forum taking place once AGM business is concluded. A date for a Fans Forum will closely follow the AGM to allow participation to include all fans, and not limited to shareholders.”
It was specifically asked whether the decision to change the AGM format was challenged when the Trust had their meeting with the club. | |
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