| Ashes 2023 16:47 - Jun 8 with 102490 views | Hoopstar |
Ah the home Ashes series is almost upon us, my personal favourite sporting event (not down under, that's just generally depressing.) I need something big sporting wise to focus on and quit my worrying about QPR for a while.
Anyone going?
I was at the first day of the World Test Championship at the Oval yesterday. The Aussies looked in depressingly good nick with the bat and their pace attack appears as terrifying as ever.
I think it's going to be an exciting, tough, tense series that'll go down to the wire. I only managed to get tickets to the very final day of the Ashes on 31st July at the Oval, you never know.
I predict...
Crawley to average less than 20 with Duckett getting closer to mid 30s
Brook to really secure his position as an outstanding talent and mainstay of the team
Pope to struggle again~
Root, in what could be his last home Ashes, proving his worth again
Bairstow - haven't a clue which version turns up post broken foot
Broad - an Ashes too far? You'd be mad to write him or Jimmy off.
Robinson to nab Smith at least four times..
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| Ashes 2023 on 19:10 - Jul 3 with 2236 views | ozexile |
| Ashes 2023 on 18:09 - Jul 3 by LimehouseR |
With that logic then it is fair game to bowl underarm to them if they're on a run chase on the last day...
How well would that go down do you think?
Same principle. It's not against thew rules. |
I'm just telling you how it is. I didn't create the culture. [Post edited 3 Jul 2023 19:12]
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| Ashes 2023 on 19:45 - Jul 3 with 2202 views | LimehouseR |
| Ashes 2023 on 19:10 - Jul 3 by ozexile |
I'm just telling you how it is. I didn't create the culture. [Post edited 3 Jul 2023 19:12]
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I know mate not having a pop at you at all. Apologies if it came across that way.
I just read an article on the Guardian with a journalist (I am assuming Australian) defending the actions of the 'stumping'. But it is such a weak argument that can be picked apart pretty easily. Of course they haven't turned on the comment section for that article.
In short she states things like:
"There is rarely a drawn-out debate over players following the rules exactly as written and being scolded for doing so."
Loads of examples across all sports! But once such is when players give throw ins back to the opposition in football after an injury. When in the past they haven't and have gone on to score there's been absolute uproar but it's 'following the rules' as she puts it.
"With history simmering under the surface, it was shocking to watch the baying crowd hurl abuse at the touring players..."
Really?! Have you never been to the Gabba. And that's just for being English let alone doing anything unsporting.
Also you have the Australian coach coming out saying Oh you try and get the batsman out whenever you can if they are out of their crease. Hmmm. A batsman walking off down the pitch happens ALL the time but funny I have never seen an incident like this before and I've been following cricket for years. So that doesn't wash either. Them saying Bairstow tried to do it. He may have done but I seriously doubt England would have then gone on to appeal it and Stokes wouldn't have let it stand either.
Like I said if that's how they want to play it then we should bowl underarm to them when it suits us. But our players just wouldn't resort to that sort of play. But if we did they would be complete hypocrites to bemoan it.
I think it has really p***ed people off as the matches so far seemed to have been in fairly good spirits and the Australia team were even likeable but not now. That incident has ruined all that. Like Broad said, it will be forever remembered. |  | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 00:10 - Jul 4 with 2063 views | SydneyRs |
| Ashes 2023 on 16:05 - Jul 3 by qpr1976 |
Fair point about Broad, who stood his ground once.
Virtually Every Aussie batsman has stood their ground on most occasions. Hypocritical of them to groan about him…..IMO.
Consider also the hit him on the back of the jaw in the 1st innings, the aimed at him there again repeatedly in the 2nd innings, catching him there again once.
How is that not intimidating ? |
The culture of not walking developed over time and one of its biggest supporters was Steve Waugh when he was Aus captain. | | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 00:39 - Jul 4 with 2043 views | bob566 |
| Ashes 2023 on 19:45 - Jul 3 by LimehouseR |
I know mate not having a pop at you at all. Apologies if it came across that way.
I just read an article on the Guardian with a journalist (I am assuming Australian) defending the actions of the 'stumping'. But it is such a weak argument that can be picked apart pretty easily. Of course they haven't turned on the comment section for that article.
In short she states things like:
"There is rarely a drawn-out debate over players following the rules exactly as written and being scolded for doing so."
Loads of examples across all sports! But once such is when players give throw ins back to the opposition in football after an injury. When in the past they haven't and have gone on to score there's been absolute uproar but it's 'following the rules' as she puts it.
"With history simmering under the surface, it was shocking to watch the baying crowd hurl abuse at the touring players..."
Really?! Have you never been to the Gabba. And that's just for being English let alone doing anything unsporting.
Also you have the Australian coach coming out saying Oh you try and get the batsman out whenever you can if they are out of their crease. Hmmm. A batsman walking off down the pitch happens ALL the time but funny I have never seen an incident like this before and I've been following cricket for years. So that doesn't wash either. Them saying Bairstow tried to do it. He may have done but I seriously doubt England would have then gone on to appeal it and Stokes wouldn't have let it stand either.
Like I said if that's how they want to play it then we should bowl underarm to them when it suits us. But our players just wouldn't resort to that sort of play. But if we did they would be complete hypocrites to bemoan it.
I think it has really p***ed people off as the matches so far seemed to have been in fairly good spirits and the Australia team were even likeable but not now. That incident has ruined all that. Like Broad said, it will be forever remembered. |
Hasn't the England manager done this three times when he was keeping for NZ | | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 06:59 - Jul 4 with 1972 views | ozexile |
| Ashes 2023 on 19:45 - Jul 3 by LimehouseR |
I know mate not having a pop at you at all. Apologies if it came across that way.
I just read an article on the Guardian with a journalist (I am assuming Australian) defending the actions of the 'stumping'. But it is such a weak argument that can be picked apart pretty easily. Of course they haven't turned on the comment section for that article.
In short she states things like:
"There is rarely a drawn-out debate over players following the rules exactly as written and being scolded for doing so."
Loads of examples across all sports! But once such is when players give throw ins back to the opposition in football after an injury. When in the past they haven't and have gone on to score there's been absolute uproar but it's 'following the rules' as she puts it.
"With history simmering under the surface, it was shocking to watch the baying crowd hurl abuse at the touring players..."
Really?! Have you never been to the Gabba. And that's just for being English let alone doing anything unsporting.
Also you have the Australian coach coming out saying Oh you try and get the batsman out whenever you can if they are out of their crease. Hmmm. A batsman walking off down the pitch happens ALL the time but funny I have never seen an incident like this before and I've been following cricket for years. So that doesn't wash either. Them saying Bairstow tried to do it. He may have done but I seriously doubt England would have then gone on to appeal it and Stokes wouldn't have let it stand either.
Like I said if that's how they want to play it then we should bowl underarm to them when it suits us. But our players just wouldn't resort to that sort of play. But if we did they would be complete hypocrites to bemoan it.
I think it has really p***ed people off as the matches so far seemed to have been in fairly good spirits and the Australia team were even likeable but not now. That incident has ruined all that. Like Broad said, it will be forever remembered. |
No offence taken at all. In reference to the underarm bowl IMO it may happen again. | | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 07:18 - Jul 4 with 1964 views | SydneyRs |
| Ashes 2023 on 14:14 - Jul 3 by thame_hoops |
what I've found odd is on twitter, how Indian and Aussie fans have joined forces, taking glee that 'bazball' is failing etc. especially the Indians, taking delight that this new style isn't winning games. jealousy.
on a side note, i actually feel sorry for Alex Carey, he looked sheepish.... I remember Middx playing Sussex at Uxbridge in 2019 ( while the Strokes Headingly ashes test was happening) and Carey was great with the young fans and members AFTER the game. Always kept an eye out for him afterwards in the Big Bash for Adelaide Strikers |
Indian cricket fans on Twitter and Facebook are largely absolute morons. Mental age of about 7 and zero sense of humour. They pop up on every single barmy army post with abysmal attempts at banter.
England's attacking style has actually been very successful so far and even led to a lot of entertaining test matches in a sport that in the test format is mostly very dull unless you are a purist. You can only really consider it a failure if you genuinely believe England would be 2-0 up instead of 2-0 down by playing conservatively. Somewhat unlikely if you remember how they were doing before the changes.
The Aussie media don't just want to win the ashes each time, they want the England captain sacked (or forced to resign) too. This time its the whole ending /disproving "bazball" stuff. They're a good team who were always going to be tough to beat England got pretty close to winning both matches so far, have certainly been competitive and at times had the Aussies rattled. There's no need to change tactics regardless of how this series pans out. [Post edited 4 Jul 2023 7:33]
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| Ashes 2023 on 07:35 - Jul 4 with 1931 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Ashes 2023 on 06:59 - Jul 4 by ozexile |
No offence taken at all. In reference to the underarm bowl IMO it may happen again. |
Fortunately, it won't ever happen again:
"21.1.2 Underarm bowling shall not be permitted except by special agreement before the match." |  | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 07:39 - Jul 4 with 1920 views | eastside_r |
| Ashes 2023 on 07:35 - Jul 4 by GaryBannister86 |
Fortunately, it won't ever happen again:
"21.1.2 Underarm bowling shall not be permitted except by special agreement before the match." |
Beat me to it! Would be called a no-ball under current Laws. |  | | |
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| Ashes 2023 on 09:28 - Jul 4 with 1813 views | stowmarketrange |
| Ashes 2023 on 15:00 - Jul 3 by SydneyRs |
Having lived in Australia a long time I know how much winning at sport, any sport, means to them. It's almost as if they use it to measure their self worth as a nation and there's a particular obsession with England that will never be reciprocated in the same way.
They were one of the first countries to start pumping govt money into Olympic sports after one particularly bad games, which pushed them up the medal table. I had to endure all the nonsense about Britain being rubbish at sport while knowing it was all about investment and funding that they had and we didn't. Hey presto, as soon as the lottery funding kicked in Britain were eclipsing Australia at the Olympics and have been now for some time.
Cricket is just much bigger here than in England and has broader appeal. I always point to England's biggest test ground being Lord's vs the enormous 100k capacity MCG in Australia. That to me sums up the standing of cricket in each nation. I was genuinely shocked when I first came here at how important they consider the ashes to be.
If you really believe that sport is all about winning then you certainly wouldn't support QPR or indeed anyone outside a very small number of extremely wealthy clubs. |
I was at the MCG for the Boxing Day test in 2017 and it was pretty full on the 1st day.By the 3rd,4th and 5th days it was mostly England fans in the ground.Whether that was the fact that England were bossing the game or due to the locals having to return to work I don’t know,but it was far from full apart from day 1. |  | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 09:57 - Jul 4 with 1753 views | terryb |
Is it any different to what happened in a televised T20 match recently?
The fielding side appealed for a run out after the bowler had obstructed the batsman from grounding his bat. The umpire asked the captain if they really wanted to appeal & was met with a yes. Therefore, he had to be given out.
I last played cricket in the '80's (at a very low level - village friendlies) & "the spirit of the game" wasn't adhered to in those games, so why would it be at a professional level? | | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 10:12 - Jul 4 with 1730 views | TheChef |
| Ashes 2023 on 15:00 - Jul 3 by SydneyRs |
Having lived in Australia a long time I know how much winning at sport, any sport, means to them. It's almost as if they use it to measure their self worth as a nation and there's a particular obsession with England that will never be reciprocated in the same way.
They were one of the first countries to start pumping govt money into Olympic sports after one particularly bad games, which pushed them up the medal table. I had to endure all the nonsense about Britain being rubbish at sport while knowing it was all about investment and funding that they had and we didn't. Hey presto, as soon as the lottery funding kicked in Britain were eclipsing Australia at the Olympics and have been now for some time.
Cricket is just much bigger here than in England and has broader appeal. I always point to England's biggest test ground being Lord's vs the enormous 100k capacity MCG in Australia. That to me sums up the standing of cricket in each nation. I was genuinely shocked when I first came here at how important they consider the ashes to be.
If you really believe that sport is all about winning then you certainly wouldn't support QPR or indeed anyone outside a very small number of extremely wealthy clubs. |
Exactly this. Australia will do whatever it takes (within the laws of the game!) to retain the Ashes, and to hell with the consequences.
And if they do retain the Ashes this summer, it's because they've played better smarter cricket than England. |  |
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| Ashes 2023 on 10:19 - Jul 4 with 1704 views | Loyalitat |
| Ashes 2023 on 00:39 - Jul 4 by bob566 |
Hasn't the England manager done this three times when he was keeping for NZ |
Yep, I'm aware of him doing it twice in his playing days, yet now takes umbrage when the same incident takes place against the team he now manages.
J Bairstow did the same thing during the course of the game and I'm in no doubt that if the roles were reversed, England would not have rescinded their appeal in as huge a game as the Ashes.
We have previous too, and arguably worse. Ben Foakes, when playing for England in a one-day international, actually waited for the Irish batter to raise his foot off the ground and in that split moment stumped him. That was definitely not in "the spirit of the game" and Eoin Morgan didn't do the "right thing" by withdrawing his appeal, with respect, against the minnows of Ireland.
I also believe batters should walk when they edge the ball and are caught behind. There are still many players who do just that, as it also constitutes part of this very subjective and nebulous "spirit of the game" term. [Post edited 4 Jul 2023 10:28]
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| Ashes 2023 on 10:32 - Jul 4 with 1673 views | easthertsr |
As an England fan I'm more annoyed with Bairstow than the Aussies. He wandered out of hir crease while the ball was live. Carey did what all keepers should do, if a batter is out of his crease when he takes guard or not switched on when he leaves a ball through to the keeper a throw at the stumps is entirely legitimate. As a terrible club wicket keeper I would often do this to keep a batter on his toes, give him something else to think about. I always missed the stumps!
It has taken the gloss off two fantastic test matches which the Aussies have shown why they are the number one team, winning the key moments in both games but there is very little between the teams. | | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 11:16 - Jul 4 with 1628 views | hamptonhillhoop |
| Ashes 2023 on 10:19 - Jul 4 by Loyalitat |
Yep, I'm aware of him doing it twice in his playing days, yet now takes umbrage when the same incident takes place against the team he now manages.
J Bairstow did the same thing during the course of the game and I'm in no doubt that if the roles were reversed, England would not have rescinded their appeal in as huge a game as the Ashes.
We have previous too, and arguably worse. Ben Foakes, when playing for England in a one-day international, actually waited for the Irish batter to raise his foot off the ground and in that split moment stumped him. That was definitely not in "the spirit of the game" and Eoin Morgan didn't do the "right thing" by withdrawing his appeal, with respect, against the minnows of Ireland.
I also believe batters should walk when they edge the ball and are caught behind. There are still many players who do just that, as it also constitutes part of this very subjective and nebulous "spirit of the game" term. [Post edited 4 Jul 2023 10:28]
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"Ben Foakes, when playing for England in a one-day international, actually waited for the Irish batter to raise his foot off the ground and in that split moment stumped him."
That's actually classed as good wicket keeping and is extremely common in stumpings. You wait for the batsman to over balance or raise his foot, and then remove the bails. It happens all the time |  | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 11:37 - Jul 4 with 1594 views | Nov77 |
| Ashes 2023 on 11:16 - Jul 4 by hamptonhillhoop |
"Ben Foakes, when playing for England in a one-day international, actually waited for the Irish batter to raise his foot off the ground and in that split moment stumped him."
That's actually classed as good wicket keeping and is extremely common in stumpings. You wait for the batsman to over balance or raise his foot, and then remove the bails. It happens all the time |
That’s different to it being the end of the over when the batsmen is only leaving his crease to go and talk to his teammate as he believes the over is finished.
Do we really want a game where we constantly have players doing what Stuart Broad sarcastically did to the Aussies afterwards, grounding his bat and asking everyone around him if the ball is dead?
It’s pathetic, they should have withdrawn the appeal. If it happens in reverse I hope England wouldn’t do what the Aussies did. |  |
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| Ashes 2023 on 11:45 - Jul 4 with 1586 views | hamptonhillhoop |
| Ashes 2023 on 11:37 - Jul 4 by Nov77 |
That’s different to it being the end of the over when the batsmen is only leaving his crease to go and talk to his teammate as he believes the over is finished.
Do we really want a game where we constantly have players doing what Stuart Broad sarcastically did to the Aussies afterwards, grounding his bat and asking everyone around him if the ball is dead?
It’s pathetic, they should have withdrawn the appeal. If it happens in reverse I hope England wouldn’t do what the Aussies did. |
I agree with you, I was quoting another poster. Personally I think Bairstow marking his crease with his foot was signalling himself in. At this point, unknowingly to him Carey had already thown the ball. He was careless in not looking round, if he had he would have remained in his crease until the ball hit. Like you, I think the fact that it was the end of the over is the crucial thing here | | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 12:23 - Jul 4 with 1464 views | Hayesender |
By all accounts, W.G.Grace bent the rules to suit him, and then you've got the Douglas's Jardine bodyline series.
It may be perceived as an elitist sport by some in England, but has it ever been a "gentleman's" game? |  |
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| Ashes 2023 on 12:28 - Jul 4 with 1437 views | Hayesender |
Ollie Pope ruled out of the rest of the series | |
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| Ashes 2023 on 13:50 - Jul 4 with 1328 views | denhamhoop2 |
| Ashes 2023 on 12:23 - Jul 4 by Hayesender |
By all accounts, W.G.Grace bent the rules to suit him, and then you've got the Douglas's Jardine bodyline series.
It may be perceived as an elitist sport by some in England, but has it ever been a "gentleman's" game? |
The Douglas Jardine and Fast Leg Theory(Bodyline is thanks to an Aussie Journalist trying to save money when sending a Telegram) is an excellent example of the same type of sharp practice. Bowling short and on the leg stump with the whole field on the leg side was within the Laws of the game and had happened previously in cricket but not with same sheer bloody mindedness. The Aussies reaction certainly wasn't ah well it's in the Laws and all part of the game they sent Telegrams to the House of Commons and threatened to a) Call off the Tour b)Cease Trade with the UK c) Get the actual laws of cricket changed and they always call us Whinging Poms without any sense of irony | | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 13:52 - Jul 4 with 1326 views | SydneyRs |
| Ashes 2023 on 09:28 - Jul 4 by stowmarketrange |
I was at the MCG for the Boxing Day test in 2017 and it was pretty full on the 1st day.By the 3rd,4th and 5th days it was mostly England fans in the ground.Whether that was the fact that England were bossing the game or due to the locals having to return to work I don’t know,but it was far from full apart from day 1. |
They are pretty quick to vanish when things aren't going well for them. It's also true day one and maybe two are the only ones where it's full or mostly full. | | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 14:21 - Jul 4 with 1280 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Ashes 2023 on 11:45 - Jul 4 by hamptonhillhoop |
I agree with you, I was quoting another poster. Personally I think Bairstow marking his crease with his foot was signalling himself in. At this point, unknowingly to him Carey had already thown the ball. He was careless in not looking round, if he had he would have remained in his crease until the ball hit. Like you, I think the fact that it was the end of the over is the crucial thing here |
Yes, that Bairstow marking seems to make the point. But then, to be fair, you realise it isn't Under 9 playground cricket where you shout "IN!" and are safe even if you were run out by 10 yards :-) | | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 15:54 - Jul 4 with 2443 views | Nov77 |
| Ashes 2023 on 12:08 - Jul 3 by Nov77 |
If the Aussies are saying it’s ok to do this, then why doesn’t the wicketkeeper throw down the stumps at the end of every over when the opposing player is walking up the pitch to talk to his partner and appeal for a stumping?
Because it just isn’t done, who wants to see the game played in that way?
It’s underhand, and definitely not in the spirit of the game.
Nonetheless, I don’t think England deserved anything out of the game, it took one miraculous innings from Stokes to get close, in the second innings only one other batter (Duckett) made a contribution.
Aussies gave away 39 extras in the game, we gave away 74, the difference being almost the margin of defeat!
(26 byes given away compared to Aussies 9), not all of that is on Bairstow but it’s clear they have a much better keeper than us.
If we’re going full on bodyline in the next test then there’s no point playing Anderson, might be worth giving Wood a try. [Post edited 3 Jul 2023 12:10]
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Didn’t know this when I posted the above yesterday…..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/66097255
We’ve actually scored 15 more runs them overall in the series so far off the bat. The difference is we’ve conceded 60 more extras than them. [Post edited 4 Jul 2023 15:56]
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| Ashes 2023 on 09:07 - Jul 5 with 2245 views | SouthAfricanRanger |
| Ashes 2023 on 10:35 - Jul 3 by Rangersw12 |
Ah bless the runts of the commonwealth sticking up for each other
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Very classy. |  |
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| Ashes 2023 on 11:23 - Jul 5 with 2187 views | TheChef |
| Ashes 2023 on 15:54 - Jul 4 by Nov77 |
Didn’t know this when I posted the above yesterday…..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/66097255
We’ve actually scored 15 more runs them overall in the series so far off the bat. The difference is we’ve conceded 60 more extras than them. [Post edited 4 Jul 2023 15:56]
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And that's where we've been complacent and a bit sloppy - fine margins and all that.
We've got to be a lot tighter in the next three Tests to stand any chance of turning this round. Rumours are that Ali and Woakes will be recalled for Headingley, so should strengthen the batting if nothing else. | |
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| Ashes 2023 on 11:32 - Jul 5 with 2163 views | daveB |
Woakes, Wood and Ali in for Pope, Tongue and Anderson
Brook has moved up to number 3 |  | | |
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