| Ashes 2023 16:47 - Jun 8 with 102657 views | Hoopstar |
Ah the home Ashes series is almost upon us, my personal favourite sporting event (not down under, that's just generally depressing.) I need something big sporting wise to focus on and quit my worrying about QPR for a while.
Anyone going?
I was at the first day of the World Test Championship at the Oval yesterday. The Aussies looked in depressingly good nick with the bat and their pace attack appears as terrifying as ever.
I think it's going to be an exciting, tough, tense series that'll go down to the wire. I only managed to get tickets to the very final day of the Ashes on 31st July at the Oval, you never know.
I predict...
Crawley to average less than 20 with Duckett getting closer to mid 30s
Brook to really secure his position as an outstanding talent and mainstay of the team
Pope to struggle again~
Root, in what could be his last home Ashes, proving his worth again
Bairstow - haven't a clue which version turns up post broken foot
Broad - an Ashes too far? You'd be mad to write him or Jimmy off.
Robinson to nab Smith at least four times..
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| Ashes 2023 on 11:07 - Jul 3 with 2125 views | TheChef |
| Ashes 2023 on 11:02 - Jul 3 by SydneyRs |
Was always going to be an issue. Relying on a 40 year old, Archer out injured, Leach also out, Wood never far from an injury. I'm actually surprised its been as close as it has and where are the next generation of bowlers? |
Yeah totally one paced at Lord's other than Tongue who did well I thought. Amazing what a difference a few more mph can make. And England couldn't handle that extra pace on Saturday evening when Aus bowled very well. Lord's was the one Test where Woakes should have played as he has a great record there and would bolster the batting at number eight.
Has England mismanaged its pace bowlers, or just been unlucky? Wood hopefully will play at Headingley but Archer probably won't play Test cricket again, Stone injured. Not great. |  |
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| Ashes 2023 on 11:13 - Jul 3 with 2113 views | eastside_r |
| Ashes 2023 on 08:09 - Jul 3 by TGRRRSSS |
I would also suggest the Umpires are partly too blame here (Stokes infers this) somehow it appears different as the last ball of the over.
It seems maybe a grey arear between how quickly a ball goes dead especially when collected by the wicketkeeper.
Ultimately Bairstow does go for a wonder and in this instance surely part of the concentration the batsman requires is to be sure a ball is dead, when we played at school (to no level) the teacher went on about being in your wicket and not wondering off.
How is it a top professional at that level can not manage this. I'd say it's different to a Mankad as Carey throws immediately making it a stumping, I'd imagine it's very rare in the extreme for a quick to get a wicket via stumping.
Bairstow did same thing on day 3 but missed and the Australian (Labuschagne was in crease)
Just seen that on Sky Sports. |
You are right about the umpire. When it happens, the presiding umpire at he bowler’s end is not even looking. He is looking down to his pocket presumably to get something out of it, therefore he had considered that the play had concluded known in cricket as ‘dead ball’.
I think what he should have done on hearing the commotion at the other end is signal dead ball. There is no right of appeal over that I.e. it could not have been referred to the third umpire.
Yes, Bairstow was foolish and careless but by custom and practice the ball was dead. The umpire clearly (initially) thought so too.
This is after seeing this all on replay. I was listening to TMS at the time and Agnew had already started to hand over to the next commentator, ironically the Aussie representative.
Definitely this was against the spirt of the game and debatable that it was actually out by The Laws. Dead Ball is one of the game’s great ‘grey areas’. |  | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 12:08 - Jul 3 with 2006 views | Nov77 |
If the Aussies are saying it’s ok to do this, then why doesn’t the wicketkeeper throw down the stumps at the end of every over when the opposing player is walking up the pitch to talk to his partner and appeal for a stumping?
Because it just isn’t done, who wants to see the game played in that way?
It’s underhand, and definitely not in the spirit of the game.
Nonetheless, I don’t think England deserved anything out of the game, it took one miraculous innings from Stokes to get close, in the second innings only one other batter (Duckett) made a contribution.
Aussies gave away 39 extras in the game, we gave away 74, the difference being almost the margin of defeat!
(26 byes given away compared to Aussies 9), not all of that is on Bairstow but it’s clear they have a much better keeper than us.
If we’re going full on bodyline in the next test then there’s no point playing Anderson, might be worth giving Wood a try. [Post edited 3 Jul 2023 12:10]
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| Ashes 2023 on 13:11 - Jul 3 with 1906 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Ashes 2023 on 10:53 - Jul 3 by ozexile |
What a bizarre thing to say. You do realise sport is graded so you play to your level? |
Dunno, I just think sport is about so much more than just 'winning'. |  |
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| Ashes 2023 on 13:58 - Jul 3 with 1828 views | ParkRoyalR |
This is where a balanced media can be quite useful,
Last night's 10pm news referred to the Long Room members being the guardians of fair play in the world-wide game of cricket (or words very similar), and I just thought really, have you undertaken an in-depth world-wide survey to substantiate this statement, or do you just make it up based on some self-anointed Jonathan Aitken type cliche.
Does'nt take much research to prove this statement to be complete nonsense, then you see the English player complaining the worst (Broad) has deliberately cheated in a previous Ashes match and Bairstow tried something very similar recently only missed.
The hypocrisy is just staggering. |  | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 14:04 - Jul 3 with 1802 views | Benny_the_Ball |
Whilst technically within the laws of the game, Australia's actions were underhand and tantamount to cheating. The delivery was bowled and deliberately left by the batter who then marked his crease as the ball was caught by the wicketkeeper. The phase of play is complete and in practice the ball is dead.
Whilst players are conditioned to win, maintaining the spirit of the game is important in any sport. Consider if you will the practice in football of returning the ball to the opposition from a throw-in after it has been deliberately kicked out of play owing to an injury. It is not a written rule but in the spirit of the game every team observes this practice. To maintain the spirit of yesterday's game, Cummins should have withdrawn Australia's appeal. |  | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 14:08 - Jul 3 with 1797 views | Bushman |
Also interesting that the 3 mcc members are widely reported as being "banned " when in fact they are suspended pending an investigation |  |
| I know almost nothing about the Premier League even though I try to catch the big games every now and then at the end of the season. But I will say this, Queens Park Rangers is just a fukking sick ass team name. Just sounds so cool. |
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| Ashes 2023 on 14:14 - Jul 3 with 1768 views | thame_hoops |
what I've found odd is on twitter, how Indian and Aussie fans have joined forces, taking glee that 'bazball' is failing etc. especially the Indians, taking delight that this new style isn't winning games. jealousy.
on a side note, i actually feel sorry for Alex Carey, he looked sheepish.... I remember Middx playing Sussex at Uxbridge in 2019 ( while the Strokes Headingly ashes test was happening) and Carey was great with the young fans and members AFTER the game. Always kept an eye out for him afterwards in the Big Bash for Adelaide Strikers |  | | |
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| Ashes 2023 on 14:30 - Jul 3 with 1741 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Ashes 2023 on 13:58 - Jul 3 by ParkRoyalR |
This is where a balanced media can be quite useful,
Last night's 10pm news referred to the Long Room members being the guardians of fair play in the world-wide game of cricket (or words very similar), and I just thought really, have you undertaken an in-depth world-wide survey to substantiate this statement, or do you just make it up based on some self-anointed Jonathan Aitken type cliche.
Does'nt take much research to prove this statement to be complete nonsense, then you see the English player complaining the worst (Broad) has deliberately cheated in a previous Ashes match and Bairstow tried something very similar recently only missed.
The hypocrisy is just staggering. |
On Bairstow, to be very clear, no one is really criticising Carey. That sort of thing to keep a batter honest is fine. It's the appeal afterwards. It's not the same because we don't know how JB would've reacted.
As for Broad - he probably should've walked, but that is an extremely grey area: some batters always walk, some never do. These days, almost none do unless the finger goes up (and that's what the referral system is there for: sadly the Aussies that day had tried to use them in hope rather than certainty (as they did again in 2019 at Headingley) and had burned them up.
So, it's not particularly staggering. [Post edited 3 Jul 2023 15:57]
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| Ashes 2023 on 14:30 - Jul 3 with 1732 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Ashes 2023 on 14:14 - Jul 3 by thame_hoops |
what I've found odd is on twitter, how Indian and Aussie fans have joined forces, taking glee that 'bazball' is failing etc. especially the Indians, taking delight that this new style isn't winning games. jealousy.
on a side note, i actually feel sorry for Alex Carey, he looked sheepish.... I remember Middx playing Sussex at Uxbridge in 2019 ( while the Strokes Headingly ashes test was happening) and Carey was great with the young fans and members AFTER the game. Always kept an eye out for him afterwards in the Big Bash for Adelaide Strikers |
On the flip side, after the Bairstow incident I noticed many folk from other UK nations willing England on to win. The Indians, like Australia, are also prone to winning at all costs, 'Mankading' being the obvious example. | | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 14:31 - Jul 3 with 1737 views | TheChef |
| Ashes 2023 on 14:14 - Jul 3 by thame_hoops |
what I've found odd is on twitter, how Indian and Aussie fans have joined forces, taking glee that 'bazball' is failing etc. especially the Indians, taking delight that this new style isn't winning games. jealousy.
on a side note, i actually feel sorry for Alex Carey, he looked sheepish.... I remember Middx playing Sussex at Uxbridge in 2019 ( while the Strokes Headingly ashes test was happening) and Carey was great with the young fans and members AFTER the game. Always kept an eye out for him afterwards in the Big Bash for Adelaide Strikers |
Hmmm yeah so Bazball is saving Test cricket - So great yes, it's exciting, but is that going to help fill stadiums for Tests in India, South Africa, etc.? I somewhat doubt it - and Test cricket doesn't need saving in England, Tests still sell out even though the prices get ever more ridiculous.
So enough with the spirit of cricket bollox, this is Ashes cricket, Bairstow cocked up and they took full advantage. If England pull their finger out, erase the stupid mistakes and play more professionally, we can still win the series. Bloody tough ask though. | |
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| Ashes 2023 on 15:00 - Jul 3 with 1680 views | SydneyRs |
| Ashes 2023 on 13:11 - Jul 3 by Antti_Heinola |
Dunno, I just think sport is about so much more than just 'winning'. |
Having lived in Australia a long time I know how much winning at sport, any sport, means to them. It's almost as if they use it to measure their self worth as a nation and there's a particular obsession with England that will never be reciprocated in the same way.
They were one of the first countries to start pumping govt money into Olympic sports after one particularly bad games, which pushed them up the medal table. I had to endure all the nonsense about Britain being rubbish at sport while knowing it was all about investment and funding that they had and we didn't. Hey presto, as soon as the lottery funding kicked in Britain were eclipsing Australia at the Olympics and have been now for some time.
Cricket is just much bigger here than in England and has broader appeal. I always point to England's biggest test ground being Lord's vs the enormous 100k capacity MCG in Australia. That to me sums up the standing of cricket in each nation. I was genuinely shocked when I first came here at how important they consider the ashes to be.
If you really believe that sport is all about winning then you certainly wouldn't support QPR or indeed anyone outside a very small number of extremely wealthy clubs. | | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 15:15 - Jul 3 with 1633 views | MrSheen |
| Ashes 2023 on 14:30 - Jul 3 by Antti_Heinola |
On Bairstow, to be very clear, no one is really criticising Carey. That sort of thing to keep a batter honest is fine. It's the appeal afterwards. It's not the same because we don't know how JB would've reacted.
As for Broad - he probably should've walked, but that is an extremely grey area: some batters always walk, some never do. These days, almost none do unless the finger goes up (and that's what the referral system is there for: sadly the Aussies that day had tried to use them in hope rather than certainty (as they did again in 2019 at Headingley) and had burned them up.
So, it's not particularly staggering. [Post edited 3 Jul 2023 15:57]
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That Broad "deliberately cheating" really gets on my nerves. He doesn't have to walk. It looked worse than most because it was caught by the slip but only after clipping Haddin's pad. As you say, the Aussies had no challenges left. In the same game, Haddin was last out letting England win a close game - he didn't walk when he edged it, just like Broad, but England DID have a challenge left. |  | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 15:17 - Jul 3 with 1630 views | CamberleyR |
| Ashes 2023 on 14:31 - Jul 3 by TheChef |
Hmmm yeah so Bazball is saving Test cricket - So great yes, it's exciting, but is that going to help fill stadiums for Tests in India, South Africa, etc.? I somewhat doubt it - and Test cricket doesn't need saving in England, Tests still sell out even though the prices get ever more ridiculous.
So enough with the spirit of cricket bollox, this is Ashes cricket, Bairstow cocked up and they took full advantage. If England pull their finger out, erase the stupid mistakes and play more professionally, we can still win the series. Bloody tough ask though. |
"we can still win the series. Bloody tough ask though."
Not quite 2-0 down after 77 minutes at home to Liverpool in 2012 but not far off! |  |
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| Ashes 2023 on 15:46 - Jul 3 with 1576 views | qpr1976 |
| Ashes 2023 on 10:36 - Jul 3 by ActonExile |
I had to go and find my old cricket bat and go into the garden and actually pretend to face a ball and see what i would have done.
Once i had completed my shot, stayed in my ground and re-marked my guard, (which Bairstow did) in my opinion the ball is dead, if we think overs take a long time now imagine what it will be like if the Batsmen (or women) has to make sure between every ball that the umpire is happy the ball is dead and for what it is worth Starc's catch was fair (although very poor technique) and should have been called out but the batsmen was called back by the umpire. |
I’m going to disagree on both here Acton.
If the ball is dead as soon as it’s in the wicket keepers gloves, there would be no stumpings recorded in the history of the game. The ball is not dead until Both Batsmen & Fielders decide or the Umpire especially if last ball of the over.
Regards Starc’s drop, a catch is not complete until the catcher has control of the ball AND his body. As he was falling to the ground, he clearly didn’t have control of his body until he lay flat on his back or stands up again. He pushed the ball along the grass before regaining control.
And to be fair the England batsmen didn’t appeal or review it, Duckett was walking (no chance an Aussie batsman would have !) until the Umpire called him back. | | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 15:54 - Jul 3 with 1568 views | loftus77 |
| Ashes 2023 on 15:17 - Jul 3 by CamberleyR |
"we can still win the series. Bloody tough ask though."
Not quite 2-0 down after 77 minutes at home to Liverpool in 2012 but not far off! |
Also in 1936-37, the Aussies had a rather useful batsman/captain in the name of D G Bradman. Tests were also timeless in Australia then too. Any extended weather interruptions from now on and its curtains for our Ashes chances.
In terms of yesterday, there is a comparison (perhaps less vivid) with Bodyline. Then, as now, a well-led successful team deployed a tactic that was legal and clearly within the laws of the game ('leg theory' was not outlawed until 1934). The opposing team and supporters kicked up a huge fuss with the accusation of unsportsmanlike behaviour which overshadowed the series and led to ramifications beyond cricket.
We'll see whether Headingley 2023 revitalises the ghost of Adelaide 1933 further. I hope not. [Post edited 3 Jul 2023 15:54]
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| Ashes 2023 on 15:58 - Jul 3 with 1558 views | qpr1976 |
| Ashes 2023 on 12:08 - Jul 3 by Nov77 |
If the Aussies are saying it’s ok to do this, then why doesn’t the wicketkeeper throw down the stumps at the end of every over when the opposing player is walking up the pitch to talk to his partner and appeal for a stumping?
Because it just isn’t done, who wants to see the game played in that way?
It’s underhand, and definitely not in the spirit of the game.
Nonetheless, I don’t think England deserved anything out of the game, it took one miraculous innings from Stokes to get close, in the second innings only one other batter (Duckett) made a contribution.
Aussies gave away 39 extras in the game, we gave away 74, the difference being almost the margin of defeat!
(26 byes given away compared to Aussies 9), not all of that is on Bairstow but it’s clear they have a much better keeper than us.
If we’re going full on bodyline in the next test then there’s no point playing Anderson, might be worth giving Wood a try. [Post edited 3 Jul 2023 12:10]
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“If the Aussies are saying it’s ok to do this, then why doesn’t the wicketkeeper throw down the stumps at the end of every over when the opposing player is walking up the pitch to talk to his partner and appeal for a stumping? ”
And if the ball is ‘dead’ as soon as it hits the wicketkeepers gloves, how has anyone in the history of the game been given out stumped ? It can’t happen. It no longer exists as a way of getting out…..! | | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 15:59 - Jul 3 with 1551 views | qpr1976 |
| Ashes 2023 on 13:11 - Jul 3 by Antti_Heinola |
Dunno, I just think sport is about so much more than just 'winning'. |
To a degree.
But I didn’t feel that way at Burnley !
Or Stoke !! | | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 16:05 - Jul 3 with 1532 views | qpr1976 |
| Ashes 2023 on 13:58 - Jul 3 by ParkRoyalR |
This is where a balanced media can be quite useful,
Last night's 10pm news referred to the Long Room members being the guardians of fair play in the world-wide game of cricket (or words very similar), and I just thought really, have you undertaken an in-depth world-wide survey to substantiate this statement, or do you just make it up based on some self-anointed Jonathan Aitken type cliche.
Does'nt take much research to prove this statement to be complete nonsense, then you see the English player complaining the worst (Broad) has deliberately cheated in a previous Ashes match and Bairstow tried something very similar recently only missed.
The hypocrisy is just staggering. |
Fair point about Broad, who stood his ground once.
Virtually Every Aussie batsman has stood their ground on most occasions. Hypocritical of them to groan about him…..IMO.
Consider also the hit him on the back of the jaw in the 1st innings, the aimed at him there again repeatedly in the 2nd innings, catching him there again once.
How is that not intimidating ? | | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 16:38 - Jul 3 with 1486 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Ashes 2023 on 16:05 - Jul 3 by qpr1976 |
Fair point about Broad, who stood his ground once.
Virtually Every Aussie batsman has stood their ground on most occasions. Hypocritical of them to groan about him…..IMO.
Consider also the hit him on the back of the jaw in the 1st innings, the aimed at him there again repeatedly in the 2nd innings, catching him there again once.
How is that not intimidating ? |
Whether Broad cheated once or a hundred times he's still a cheat,
So for him personally to call out Carey, who made a split second judgement call, was the height of hypocrisy imo. | | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 16:48 - Jul 3 with 1468 views | qpr1976 |
| Ashes 2023 on 16:38 - Jul 3 by ParkRoyalR |
Whether Broad cheated once or a hundred times he's still a cheat,
So for him personally to call out Carey, who made a split second judgement call, was the height of hypocrisy imo. |
I’m not justifying Broad here, Carey did nothing wrong. Bairstow did.
Broad stood his ground once. Aussies have Always stood their ground. It doesn’t compare IMO.
1 person gives it back to them once. And they still banging on about it years later.
We can bring up Chappells underarm ball, Smith looking to the dressing room & coaches to see if he should review, Sandpaper gate and the crocodile tears of Smith and Warner (traditionally a nasty little bugger - punching Root) and Starc’s drop. Fair play Stuart. | | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 16:58 - Jul 3 with 2494 views | toboboly |
| Ashes 2023 on 16:38 - Jul 3 by ParkRoyalR |
Whether Broad cheated once or a hundred times he's still a cheat,
So for him personally to call out Carey, who made a split second judgement call, was the height of hypocrisy imo. |
If that is the case then 95% of Aussie cricketers can't say anything about anyone else cheating, at all, ever. |  |
| Sexy Asian dwarves wanted. |
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| Ashes 2023 on 17:32 - Jul 3 with 2423 views | bob566 |
If I'm learning one thing today it seems that everybody is cheating in cricket. | | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 18:09 - Jul 3 with 2365 views | LimehouseR |
| Ashes 2023 on 10:32 - Jul 3 by ozexile |
The debate will rage and rage on for years. But having spent the first 25 years of my life in the UK and the next 25 in Sydney I actually like the way Aussies do sport compared to us Brits. Even from a young age it's just about winning. Which at the end of the day is really what sport is about.
What happened didn't break the rules so it's fair game in Australia. As long as both teams understand that's the game from the off things go well.
If you continually seek situations in life where everything has to be fair you're not gonna be happy too often. |
With that logic then it is fair game to bowl underarm to them if they're on a run chase on the last day...
How well would that go down do you think?
Same principle. It's not against thew rules. |  | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 18:09 - Jul 3 with 2365 views | R_from_afar |
| Ashes 2023 on 14:30 - Jul 3 by Antti_Heinola |
On Bairstow, to be very clear, no one is really criticising Carey. That sort of thing to keep a batter honest is fine. It's the appeal afterwards. It's not the same because we don't know how JB would've reacted.
As for Broad - he probably should've walked, but that is an extremely grey area: some batters always walk, some never do. These days, almost none do unless the finger goes up (and that's what the referral system is there for: sadly the Aussies that day had tried to use them in hope rather than certainty (as they did again in 2019 at Headingley) and had burned them up.
So, it's not particularly staggering. [Post edited 3 Jul 2023 15:57]
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Richie Benaud (RIP) used to tell a story about a time when he was batting, missed the ball, there was a clear sound as the ball whizzed past him and the slips and 'keeper all appealed for a catch. He walked, only to realise when he was half way to the pavilion and it was too late that the ball had actually flicked his shirt sleeve.
On the subject of Anderson, obviously, he isn't going to play that many more tests, if any, but don't underestimate the value of his miserly bowling (oh, and his ability to combine accuracy with inswing and outswing). He was by far and away the most economical of the five quick bowlers in the first innings, only conceding 53 in 20 overs, and that builds pressure on the batters.
NB: These are general points, not ones aimed at Antti specifically. [Post edited 3 Jul 2023 18:14]
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| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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