| Millwall fans. 17:35 - Dec 5 with 64089 views | Paddyhoops |
They booed the players loudly as they took the knee.
What a classy bunch they are.
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| Millwall fans. on 15:14 - Dec 8 with 2073 views | SheffieldHoop |
| Millwall fans. on 15:08 - Dec 8 by hamptonhillhoop |
I sit in H block. Thats my contribution to this thread [Post edited 8 Dec 2020 15:09]
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Baz claims there is no H block at Loftus road because it's technically called HU
Bit like how he claims there is no marxism in society because technically the people perpetuating it haven't read the complete works of Marx |  |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| Millwall fans. on 15:15 - Dec 8 with 2050 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Millwall fans. on 15:08 - Dec 8 by hamptonhillhoop |
I sit in H block. Thats my contribution to this thread [Post edited 8 Dec 2020 15:09]
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I thought there was H Upper (HU) and H Lower (HL) but one is the family stand right? Maybe I’m being pedantic. |  | | |
| Millwall fans. on 15:17 - Dec 8 with 2042 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Millwall fans. on 15:14 - Dec 8 by SheffieldHoop |
Baz claims there is no H block at Loftus road because it's technically called HU
Bit like how he claims there is no marxism in society because technically the people perpetuating it haven't read the complete works of Marx |
There is plenty of Marxism in society. It’s why our kids go to school and we have the NHS. | | | |
| Millwall fans. on 15:19 - Dec 8 with 2053 views | SheffieldHoop |
| Millwall fans. on 15:17 - Dec 8 by BazzaInTheLoft |
There is plenty of Marxism in society. It’s why our kids go to school and we have the NHS. |
I've just spent the day being told I'm delusional for suggesting there is ? [Post edited 8 Dec 2020 15:20]
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| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| Millwall fans. on 15:24 - Dec 8 with 2016 views | SheffieldHoop |
| Millwall fans. on 15:00 - Dec 8 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Clive has deleted it now but he called me a racist because he couldn’t tell me what a Marxist is.
I don’t think he’s contributing in good faith Brian. |
Plenty on here know me in person. Plenty on here are free to point point anything I'm saying that they feel is false representation. I don't think you contribute to this board in good faith either, and I've been reading it for about 15 years..... | |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| Millwall fans. on 15:25 - Dec 8 with 2017 views | LythamR |
| Millwall fans. on 15:17 - Dec 8 by BazzaInTheLoft |
There is plenty of Marxism in society. It’s why our kids go to school and we have the NHS. |
Although Marx himself went to school of course. hmmm |  | | |
| Millwall fans. on 15:27 - Dec 8 with 2004 views | qpr_1968 |
| Millwall fans. on 13:08 - Dec 8 by Gloucs_R |
How has this thread lasted 11 pages? |
the taking of the knee will be over.....
the covid will be under control....
qpr will be in the premier....
but this thread will still be going | |
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| Millwall fans. on 15:32 - Dec 8 with 1960 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Millwall fans. on 15:19 - Dec 8 by SheffieldHoop |
I've just spent the day being told I'm delusional for suggesting there is ? [Post edited 8 Dec 2020 15:20]
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You really haven’t.
As someone else has said, no one is calling you delusional, no one is calling you racist, and to be honest if you are saying that taking the kneel is pointless, I probably agree with you.
My confusion (as a Marxist myself) is why it’s being used as a slur.
You don’t have to spend a month reading Capital, just look at Wikipedia or pay the MML site a visit to see why it’s nonsense and makes you difficult to be taken seriously. | | | |
| Millwall fans. on 15:34 - Dec 8 with 1971 views | hamptonhillhoop |
| Millwall fans. on 15:15 - Dec 8 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I thought there was H Upper (HU) and H Lower (HL) but one is the family stand right? Maybe I’m being pedantic. |
Us H blockers all live happily together, whether we're upper or lower. Don't divide us! |  | | |
| Millwall fans. on 15:37 - Dec 8 with 1952 views | SheffieldHoop |
| Millwall fans. on 15:32 - Dec 8 by BazzaInTheLoft |
You really haven’t.
As someone else has said, no one is calling you delusional, no one is calling you racist, and to be honest if you are saying that taking the kneel is pointless, I probably agree with you.
My confusion (as a Marxist myself) is why it’s being used as a slur.
You don’t have to spend a month reading Capital, just look at Wikipedia or pay the MML site a visit to see why it’s nonsense and makes you difficult to be taken seriously. |
. [Post edited 11 Feb 2021 12:01]
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| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| Millwall fans. on 15:38 - Dec 8 with 1946 views | LongsufferingR |
| Millwall fans. on 15:08 - Dec 8 by SheffieldHoop |
Fck me, I must've been sold a dodgy season ticket. |
I think we all have tbh |  | | |
| Millwall fans. on 15:39 - Dec 8 with 1913 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Millwall fans. on 15:34 - Dec 8 by hamptonhillhoop |
Us H blockers all live happily together, whether we're upper or lower. Don't divide us! |
I shall educate myself and take the knee tonight in penance. Is there a Hashtag I can share?
I used to sit in JU and we never associated ourselves with the little shits downstairs. | | | |
| Millwall fans. on 15:46 - Dec 8 with 1868 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Millwall fans. on 15:37 - Dec 8 by SheffieldHoop |
. [Post edited 11 Feb 2021 12:01]
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I’ve not said the majority of what you’ve said there, but you are right to suggest that this is a waste of time. | | | |
| Millwall fans. on 16:22 - Dec 8 with 1768 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Millwall fans. on 15:08 - Dec 8 by hamptonhillhoop |
I sit in H block. Thats my contribution to this thread [Post edited 8 Dec 2020 15:09]
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Yep but called HU and HL upper/lower
I'm done on here too. |  |
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| Millwall fans. on 16:24 - Dec 8 with 1740 views | izlingtonhoop |
| Millwall fans. on 13:23 - Dec 8 by silverbirch |
Have only just realised this is live on sky. I’m feeling for our players at the moment. Millwall will be bonded by this and roared on by their fans. Our players are likely to be worrying about the reaction that either kneeling or not kneeling will receive. Some may feel let down by others not doing what they do. I really hope they all kneel and it binds them.
I’d like to say that in the grander scheme the result and the performance don’t matter. But in the face of what the Millwall fans have done and how their club has reacted maybe it matters more than ever. |
So...
It was worth looking at this thread.
Tenner saved. and early KO. Perfect.
55 mins earlier to bed, communist manifesto in hand...
Ahhh...
Cheers Silver. |  | | |
| Millwall fans. on 16:31 - Dec 8 with 1711 views | izlingtonhoop |
Ah Alexei, why are you always so wise...?
The Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels
I would add to Blaise Pascal’s remark that “All of humanity’s problems stem from man’s inability to sit quietly in a room alone” by saying that a lot of humanity’s problems also stem from mankind’s liability to misunderstand and pervert a really good book. So just as you could not be a reactionary, evangelical Christian and actually follow Christ’s teachings in the Bible, or be a violent jihadi Salafist/Wahhabist and follow the prophet Muhammad’s teachings in the Qur’an, so none of the psychopaths, thieves and personality disorders who led revolutionary communist governments have followed what is actually written in the second-bestselling book ever published (after the Bible), The Communist Manifesto. Marx and Engels’s revolutionary summons to the working classes details the nature of the class struggles between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie, and the problems with capitalism. Read it for yourself. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win. Workers of the world, unite!
Wasn't the Alexei Sayle piece that made me pick it up a few years ago, but I haven't found that one. [Post edited 8 Dec 2020 16:31]
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| Millwall fans. on 16:45 - Dec 8 with 1681 views | denhamhoop2 |
| Millwall fans. on 17:45 - Dec 7 by BrianMcCarthy |
Could we also have those nice Yorkshire villages with the stone houses? |
Last of the Summer Guinness | | | |
| Millwall fans. on 16:47 - Dec 8 with 1676 views | E17hoop |
| Millwall fans. on 14:18 - Dec 8 by E17hoop |
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| Millwall fans. on 17:00 - Dec 8 with 1625 views | St_Pollock |
| Millwall fans. on 14:02 - Dec 8 by Antti_Heinola |
Really don't want to wade into this discussion, but one thing I would say is that a large part of the anti-racist movement in this country is not really about abuse, be it verbal or physical. It's about everyday experience, a deeper racism embedded in society that is not even necessarily conscious racism. The example mentioned many times here is the number of black coaches and managers in the English game. Steve McQueen has talked about how when he filmed his latest project in the UK finding black actors was not difficult - but finding a crew that was more representative was extremely difficult, almost impossible. Don't know if you have kids, but have a look at how many kids books have black characters or are about black characters or written or designed by black writers or illustrators. I can tell you - it is very, very, very few. And it's certainly not representative of this nation. I've said this before, but look around at our home games when we have fans - it's not representative of London, is it? It's better than it was 25 years ago, but walk about in Shepherd's Bush and then walk into the KPFS and there's a marked difference.
I don't think publishers, football chairmen or TV companies sit there thinking 'I'm only employing whites'. It is, in that buzzword for this year, more an unconscious bias. It is far deeper issue than just 'tolerance' or not shouting abuse. I think what happened over the last few years was that shouting racist abuse at football (at most clubs) became socially unacceptable. But then over the last couple of years, there was a definite increase. That shows that attitudes never really went away, they were just in hiding, kept indoors. And now I fear they're being encouraged out again under a guise of a reaction against 'wokeness', or calling it 'politics' or 'another opinion'.
You know, Millwall fans embracing their own black players means absolutely nothing. Out and out Chelsea racists have published stuff (can't remember where I read it now, years ago) about how when they signed Desailly, they booed him like anything, until they sw how tough he was, and then they decided he was 'just like them' and took them to their loveable hearts. And on top of that, I think it's fair to say that no one ever said it was all Millwall fans. Clearly, they're not a fanbase who all think alike, anymore than our fanbase thinks alike (as this thread amply demonstrates!). [Post edited 8 Dec 2020 14:05]
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In the last Census just 3.8% of the population of the United Kingdom were listed as being Black. This equated to just over 1.86m in a population size of around 60m.
Some genuine questions:
1) Considering how many of the 1.86m will be of school age or retired, how many black crew members did Steve McQueen genuinely expect to find?
2) If 'identifying themselves' in novels and works of fiction doesn't seem to have been a widespread issue for older generations of black people living in the UK, why the pressing need to add token characters to works of literature?
3) How do you suggest the club increase the black support? Should we have a 'Bring a black mate' day at Loftus Road every now and then? Should we have cheaper tickets for Black people?
Alternatively, should we just accept that QPR operates a widely used system which does not use prejudice or a de-facto Apartheid ticketing system and black people have an equal opportunity to purchase tickets for our matches?
Is it also fair to point out that most Black football supporters are more inclined to support successful sides - from their armchair - hence the number of members of their community who you see wearing attire declaring support for a top 5 side? [Post edited 8 Dec 2020 17:02]
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| Millwall fans. on 17:32 - Dec 8 with 1539 views | SheffieldHoop |
This whole debate about the attendance inside Loftus Road looking different to the streets outside is so weird. I don't understand where it comes from, but am reliably informed it has something to do with Marxism....
It doesn't belong at QPR and it's genuinely sad to see people pushing this onto our fans. I've known Black and Asian people who have been going to QPR since before I was born. One of the reasons I'm a QPR fan is because a lad I went to school with called Rishi used to be taken by his dad, even though they were massive liverpool fans. Suddenly supporting Man U and England (Or as it was known in those days, David Beckham) is less appealing when there's an actual game to go to, watching real footballers. I've known a Sri Lankan guy who has gone to West ham my whole life, offered to take me before and never mentioned being made to feel unwelcome. I know another Asian family who are Tottenham season ticket holders, 2 adults 2 kids. People will go to football if they want to. And they won't if they don't.
Taking a leaf out of Bazza's book.
I guess you either think QPR is a racist club, or you don't.
Or maybe.....let's just leave this stuff to the rest of society and stick together as QPR fans [Post edited 8 Dec 2020 17:40]
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| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| Millwall fans. on 17:52 - Dec 8 with 1464 views | QPR_Nippon |
| Millwall fans. on 17:00 - Dec 8 by St_Pollock |
In the last Census just 3.8% of the population of the United Kingdom were listed as being Black. This equated to just over 1.86m in a population size of around 60m.
Some genuine questions:
1) Considering how many of the 1.86m will be of school age or retired, how many black crew members did Steve McQueen genuinely expect to find?
2) If 'identifying themselves' in novels and works of fiction doesn't seem to have been a widespread issue for older generations of black people living in the UK, why the pressing need to add token characters to works of literature?
3) How do you suggest the club increase the black support? Should we have a 'Bring a black mate' day at Loftus Road every now and then? Should we have cheaper tickets for Black people?
Alternatively, should we just accept that QPR operates a widely used system which does not use prejudice or a de-facto Apartheid ticketing system and black people have an equal opportunity to purchase tickets for our matches?
Is it also fair to point out that most Black football supporters are more inclined to support successful sides - from their armchair - hence the number of members of their community who you see wearing attire declaring support for a top 5 side? [Post edited 8 Dec 2020 17:02]
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Some genuine answers:
1) Considering how many of the 1.86m will be of school age or retired, how many black crew members did Steve McQueen genuinely expect to find?
The point was that the number of black ("BAME" in the article I read) crew members wasn't anywhere near representative of the whole population (14%). Who knows what McQueen expected, but certainly what he found was a tiny fraction of that overall proportion. That's surely not too difficult to grasp.
2) If 'identifying themselves' in novels and works of fiction doesn't seem to have been a widespread issue for older generations of black people living in the UK, why the pressing need to add token characters to works of literature?
Wasn't 'an issue' for older generations of black people? On what basis do you make that sweeping generalisation? Have you talked to all of them? In any case, it stands to reason that as the UK has become more diverse there would be a growing hope and expectation that such diversity ought to be better represented in literature and popular culture generally.
3) How do you suggest the club increase the black support? Should we have a 'Bring a black mate' day at Loftus Road every now and then? Should we have cheaper tickets for Black people?
Big leap from someone making a factual observation that attendance at Loftus Road does not reflect the diversity of the London population (or the diversity on the pitch) to arguing for something as absurd as race-based price discrimination. The broader point is not that a certain racial group are more inclined to support top 5 sides - which I find highly dubious by the way - but that many from minority groups may still not feel entirely safe and comfortable going to football matches, often the result of perceptions formed from people's day-to-day lived experiences. No-one is suggesting there are any easy, glib solutions to this, but it is indicative of a wider issue that this "Britain is not a racist country" trope seeks to sweep under the carpet. |  | | |
| Millwall fans. on 17:57 - Dec 8 with 1433 views | Juzzie |
For the love of god can this thread be closed. Like just about every other similar thread it has long run it's course and the same arguments go round & round with everyone trying to push their point and the other side, obviously, never yielding.
This meme from the previous page summed it up nicely.
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| Millwall fans. on 17:58 - Dec 8 with 1428 views | SheffieldHoop |
. [Post edited 11 Feb 2021 12:02]
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| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| Millwall fans. on 18:00 - Dec 8 with 1411 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Millwall fans. on 17:00 - Dec 8 by St_Pollock |
In the last Census just 3.8% of the population of the United Kingdom were listed as being Black. This equated to just over 1.86m in a population size of around 60m.
Some genuine questions:
1) Considering how many of the 1.86m will be of school age or retired, how many black crew members did Steve McQueen genuinely expect to find?
2) If 'identifying themselves' in novels and works of fiction doesn't seem to have been a widespread issue for older generations of black people living in the UK, why the pressing need to add token characters to works of literature?
3) How do you suggest the club increase the black support? Should we have a 'Bring a black mate' day at Loftus Road every now and then? Should we have cheaper tickets for Black people?
Alternatively, should we just accept that QPR operates a widely used system which does not use prejudice or a de-facto Apartheid ticketing system and black people have an equal opportunity to purchase tickets for our matches?
Is it also fair to point out that most Black football supporters are more inclined to support successful sides - from their armchair - hence the number of members of their community who you see wearing attire declaring support for a top 5 side? [Post edited 8 Dec 2020 17:02]
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Steve McQueen, in a recent interview said he lived on the White City when very young and the first football match he ever went to was at Loftus Road, subsequently became quite an ardent Spurs fan (similar to Norman Jay who's also local, and Les Ferdinand I think)
So it maybe the case that when young lads of West Indian descent first came to Rangers it was a predominantly white team and they did'nt feel an immediate affinity with any of our players, and maybe they would have with Spurs as Garth Crooks was top scorer at the time, or it maybe like many who's old fella did'nt take them to football, they picked their team on FA Cup Final Day as it was the only live club football match at the time, so not sure its just down to supporting successful sides as if so it would be Liverpool and United.
To encourage local lads of all colours and shapes and sizes to come to Loftus Road, we need to treat all as equals (as we do), continue to develop the best young talent (as we are beginning to - well Ebere Eze) be entertaining (up to Huddersfield we are) and successful (let's hope) | | | |
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