| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 18:18 - Apr 8 with 6226 views | Dale23years |
What is their financial situation?
Rochdale had big plans for this year. Around £500,000 of expenditure had been earmarked for a new pitch and drainage at their Crown Oil Arena, refurbishment of the home and away dressing rooms and a new barcode ticketing entry system to the ground. “All the money that we had set aside for that is now potentially going into paying salaries,” David Bottomley, their chief executive, tells Telegraph Sport.
The prospect of no football is unthinkable. Rochdale have six home games left to play this season worth between £250,000 and £300,000 to the club in gate receipts, sponsorship and matchday hospitality. Even if matches were played behind closed doors and fans able to watch them on iFollow, a streaming service for supporters, Rochdale would enjoy none of the ancillary benefits that are their lifeblood. Money from away fans through iFollow would also go to the away club when, ordinarily, a 2,000 strong travelling away support would be worth as much as £40,000 to Rochdale. “Less than 15 per cent of our income comes from people coming through the turnstiles but all of our income depends on you playing football,” Bottomley said. |  |
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| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 18:19 - Apr 8 with 6222 views | Dale23years |
It is normally around this time of the year that Rochdale start advertising season tickets for next season. Money raised through sales enables the club to get through June and July when there is no football. But are fans - potentially out of pocket already if this season is not finished - going to buy season tickets when they do not know when or if next season will start, assuming they even have the money to do so? “They are a complete no go now as things stand,” Bottomley explains.
Similarly, Rochdale are accustomed to many of their sponsors paying upfront in July for next season. Will they still have the cash or appetite to do so? The club have been in the process of renewing their stadium and shirt sponsorship deal with Crown Oil for another three years. “They are an exceptional sponsor,” Bottomley said.Â
What are they doing to mitigate the financial impact of coronavirus?
Around 20 of Rochdale’s 25 non-playing staff have been furloughed, a move that clearly pains Bottomley at a time when the club’s biggest earners - the players - remain on full pay. The club sold their rising teenage star, Luke Matheson, to Wolverhampton Wanderers in January for around £1 million plus add ons, even if a lot of that money has yet to be realised. | |
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| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 18:20 - Apr 8 with 6219 views | Dale23years |
Matheson famously scored at Old Trafford as Rochdale were narrowly defeated on penalties by Manchester United in the Carabao Cup third round in September. That game earned them a net sum of £463,000 which, coupled with an FA Cup run that yielded a further £500,000 thanks largely to three televised games, including taking Newcastle United to a third round replay at St James’ Park, has inadvertently afforded the club some protection in the current crisis. “Right now those three elements are the difference between none of the Rochdale board sleeping at night and us getting some sleep,” Bottomley said. “They have bought us some breathing space.”
 Rochdale are also due the first of two payments - each worth £480,000 - in September owing to a sell on clause from former player Craig Dawson’s £6 million sale from West Bromwich Albion to Watford last year. That is a long wait in the circumstances, though, and so the club may look at trying to borrow against the Dawson money given that it constitutes guaranteed future income, even if that presents a huge problem in its own right.
Bottomley would, ideally, go to the banks for support but Rochdale, and other well-run clubs like them, are effectively victims of the financial mismanagement of others within the game. “We have an impeccable record down the years but the banks don’t want to know because they only want to lend to what they consider to be viable businesses and none of them see football clubs as that,” Bottomley said.
What is their best-case scenario?
Bottomley spent an hour on the phone on Monday to Jimmy McNulty, the club’s veteran defender and the dressing room’s PFA representative, and is in daily dialogue with the manager, Brian Barry-Murphy. Even for well run lower league clubs like Rochdale, whose 113-year history has been an object lesson in prudent management, the situation may hinge on players taking pay cuts.
Over half of Rochdale’s forecast £6 million turnover for this year goes on wages. “Survival, even for a club that are well run like us, may depend on successful negotiations between the EFL and PFA over player wages,” Bottomley says. “Salary deferrals are no good because some time down the line you’re still going to have to pay them.” | |
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| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 18:21 - Apr 8 with 6212 views | Dale23years |
| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 18:20 - Apr 8 by Dale23years |
Matheson famously scored at Old Trafford as Rochdale were narrowly defeated on penalties by Manchester United in the Carabao Cup third round in September. That game earned them a net sum of £463,000 which, coupled with an FA Cup run that yielded a further £500,000 thanks largely to three televised games, including taking Newcastle United to a third round replay at St James’ Park, has inadvertently afforded the club some protection in the current crisis. “Right now those three elements are the difference between none of the Rochdale board sleeping at night and us getting some sleep,” Bottomley said. “They have bought us some breathing space.”
 Rochdale are also due the first of two payments - each worth £480,000 - in September owing to a sell on clause from former player Craig Dawson’s £6 million sale from West Bromwich Albion to Watford last year. That is a long wait in the circumstances, though, and so the club may look at trying to borrow against the Dawson money given that it constitutes guaranteed future income, even if that presents a huge problem in its own right.
Bottomley would, ideally, go to the banks for support but Rochdale, and other well-run clubs like them, are effectively victims of the financial mismanagement of others within the game. “We have an impeccable record down the years but the banks don’t want to know because they only want to lend to what they consider to be viable businesses and none of them see football clubs as that,” Bottomley said.
What is their best-case scenario?
Bottomley spent an hour on the phone on Monday to Jimmy McNulty, the club’s veteran defender and the dressing room’s PFA representative, and is in daily dialogue with the manager, Brian Barry-Murphy. Even for well run lower league clubs like Rochdale, whose 113-year history has been an object lesson in prudent management, the situation may hinge on players taking pay cuts.
Over half of Rochdale’s forecast £6 million turnover for this year goes on wages. “Survival, even for a club that are well run like us, may depend on successful negotiations between the EFL and PFA over player wages,” Bottomley says. “Salary deferrals are no good because some time down the line you’re still going to have to pay them.” |
What is their worst-case scenario?
The prospect of football having still to resume by September or October scares Bottomley. “I think we could just about survive to that point but we would only be able to do that with cooperation from the players,” he says. “Beyond that, administration absolutely becomes a threat.
“I think the coronavirus pandemic has acted like no catalyst could ever have done before to highlight the financial issues in an industry that wasn’t particularly well run.”
If the banks do not soften lending restrictions, Bottomley believes it is imperative there is help from the Premier League. They have already agreed to advance £125 million in solidarity payments to EFL and National League clubs. For Rochdale, that means two payments of around £400,000 each that were due to come in August and next January being brought forward but Bottomley fears that will only create more problems down the line.Â
“You’re only kicking the can down the road. We don’t mean to sound ungrateful but we actually think it will exacerbate the problem,” he said.
“All you’re doing is storing up an even bigger problem for six, nine months down the line and if the season restarts, the clubs that are perilously close now to going out of business will potentially be going mid-season.” | |
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| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 18:34 - Apr 8 with 6172 views | 442Dale |
Thanks for that.
Interesting to see some actual figures attributed to games/transfer fees. |  |
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| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 19:02 - Apr 8 with 6103 views | D_Alien |
Yes, thanks for taking the trouble with that D23 |  |
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| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 20:36 - Apr 8 with 5955 views | TalkingSutty |
| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 18:34 - Apr 8 by 442Dale |
Thanks for that.
Interesting to see some actual figures attributed to games/transfer fees. |
Was thinking the same thing, figures that quite a lot of people seemed to disregard.The CEO confirmed the near half a million gate receipts from the United game and the same again for the two Newcastle games and television money. We also had big television money from the Boston and Wrexham games. David Bottomley is right with everything he says in that interview and it’s refreshing to hear him acknowledge that we have been very fortunate when compared to a lot of other Clubs, it’s not difficult for fans to get a rough idea of extra revenue being generated by the Club.
If the Club did announce Season Ticket sales for next season who would buy one within the next three months? ....if this season was declared null and void and we could then plan on starting the season next September or even October then I would buy one tomorrow. The uncertainty and insistence on finishing this season will end up impacting on next season and I’m not prepared to stump up money in advance for that. This season has been ruined and it seems that the powers that be are hell bent on disrupting the upcoming one if needs be. [Post edited 8 Apr 2020 20:44]
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| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 20:57 - Apr 8 with 5911 views | D_Alien |
| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 20:36 - Apr 8 by TalkingSutty |
Was thinking the same thing, figures that quite a lot of people seemed to disregard.The CEO confirmed the near half a million gate receipts from the United game and the same again for the two Newcastle games and television money. We also had big television money from the Boston and Wrexham games. David Bottomley is right with everything he says in that interview and it’s refreshing to hear him acknowledge that we have been very fortunate when compared to a lot of other Clubs, it’s not difficult for fans to get a rough idea of extra revenue being generated by the Club.
If the Club did announce Season Ticket sales for next season who would buy one within the next three months? ....if this season was declared null and void and we could then plan on starting the season next September or even October then I would buy one tomorrow. The uncertainty and insistence on finishing this season will end up impacting on next season and I’m not prepared to stump up money in advance for that. This season has been ruined and it seems that the powers that be are hell bent on disrupting the upcoming one if needs be. [Post edited 8 Apr 2020 20:44]
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But as DB makes clear, not completing the remaining games for this season leaves a considerable hole in the finances. This season is far from ruined; not completing it would undermine the fabric of competitive football and what value buying an ST for next, or any other season then? | |
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| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 20:59 - Apr 8 with 5903 views | Sandyman |
Many thanks for that D23 - A thought provoking read. Difficult times ahead. Good luck to the RAFC board navigating through this one.
Certainly alters the perspective aroused by the proposed EGM . Who would want to buy a stack of shares and get involved in the uncertainty of lower league football post-COVID-19 without an ulterior motive ? |  | | |
| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 21:26 - Apr 8 with 5870 views | TalkingSutty |
| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 20:57 - Apr 8 by D_Alien |
But as DB makes clear, not completing the remaining games for this season leaves a considerable hole in the finances. This season is far from ruined; not completing it would undermine the fabric of competitive football and what value buying an ST for next, or any other season then? |
The money lost from not playing the remaining home fixtures (£250k according to DB) has been covered by the share out from the £50 million pay out from the EFL which they announced a few weeks ago, it’s to be distributed between the 72 Clubs, DB welcomed that decision at the time it was made. I don’t believe not completing the season undermines the fabric of competitive football..this is a once in a lifetime event and nobodies fault, there is nothing in the laws/rules saying that if the season can’t be completed it has to impinge on the following season...by doing that i think it will damage the game even further.
There would have to be a break between each season ( a close season) and a transfer window which coincides in some way with the rest of Europe. If Leeds United/ WBA gain promotion to the Premiership they will want time to assemble a squad capable of competing and that scenario will go right through the leagues. The Play Offs will also have to be accommodated. Even now the players will need some sort of pre- season to start playing competitive games again, so if your preferred option did happen i reckon it could be November or maybe later before a new season could start. That’s a long time before supporters can start buying season tickets again. When will it be safe to allow fans to congregate again in Football Stadiums, if it happens within the next 4 months i will be amazed. There isn’t a easy answer and I can see both sides of the argument...its a total mess. Let’s see how the rest of the European leagues solve the dilemna. [Post edited 8 Apr 2020 21:40]
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| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 21:59 - Apr 8 with 5803 views | D_Alien |
| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 21:26 - Apr 8 by TalkingSutty |
The money lost from not playing the remaining home fixtures (£250k according to DB) has been covered by the share out from the £50 million pay out from the EFL which they announced a few weeks ago, it’s to be distributed between the 72 Clubs, DB welcomed that decision at the time it was made. I don’t believe not completing the season undermines the fabric of competitive football..this is a once in a lifetime event and nobodies fault, there is nothing in the laws/rules saying that if the season can’t be completed it has to impinge on the following season...by doing that i think it will damage the game even further.
There would have to be a break between each season ( a close season) and a transfer window which coincides in some way with the rest of Europe. If Leeds United/ WBA gain promotion to the Premiership they will want time to assemble a squad capable of competing and that scenario will go right through the leagues. The Play Offs will also have to be accommodated. Even now the players will need some sort of pre- season to start playing competitive games again, so if your preferred option did happen i reckon it could be November or maybe later before a new season could start. That’s a long time before supporters can start buying season tickets again. When will it be safe to allow fans to congregate again in Football Stadiums, if it happens within the next 4 months i will be amazed. There isn’t a easy answer and I can see both sides of the argument...its a total mess. Let’s see how the rest of the European leagues solve the dilemna. [Post edited 8 Apr 2020 21:40]
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I can see the technical advantages of simply abandoning 19/20. The problem i have is that starting 20/21 on time/early autumn is the virus could return and lead to a fresh interruption. Wherefore the fabric of football then?
Imo there's no point getting tied into what tradition says we ought to be doing - that's gone, in so many ways. Fresh thinking, flexible solutions to unknown outcomes will become the order of the day in economics, business, finance, healthcare, travel. If football doesn't also adapt, it'll be swept along by history until it does
[Post edited 8 Apr 2020 22:04]
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| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 22:08 - Apr 8 with 5782 views | James1980 |
If there wasn't a team, with a virtually unassailable lead, at the top of the Premier League do you think the top 4 leagues would not have already been suspended? | |
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| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 22:43 - Apr 8 with 5730 views | kiwidale |
| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 21:26 - Apr 8 by TalkingSutty |
The money lost from not playing the remaining home fixtures (£250k according to DB) has been covered by the share out from the £50 million pay out from the EFL which they announced a few weeks ago, it’s to be distributed between the 72 Clubs, DB welcomed that decision at the time it was made. I don’t believe not completing the season undermines the fabric of competitive football..this is a once in a lifetime event and nobodies fault, there is nothing in the laws/rules saying that if the season can’t be completed it has to impinge on the following season...by doing that i think it will damage the game even further.
There would have to be a break between each season ( a close season) and a transfer window which coincides in some way with the rest of Europe. If Leeds United/ WBA gain promotion to the Premiership they will want time to assemble a squad capable of competing and that scenario will go right through the leagues. The Play Offs will also have to be accommodated. Even now the players will need some sort of pre- season to start playing competitive games again, so if your preferred option did happen i reckon it could be November or maybe later before a new season could start. That’s a long time before supporters can start buying season tickets again. When will it be safe to allow fans to congregate again in Football Stadiums, if it happens within the next 4 months i will be amazed. There isn’t a easy answer and I can see both sides of the argument...its a total mess. Let’s see how the rest of the European leagues solve the dilemna. [Post edited 8 Apr 2020 21:40]
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Once again Sutty you are talking a lot of sense. The longer a resumption is delayed the more difficult it will be to plan ahead, a decision, any decision needs to be made now. Money will rule a decision but financial implications will be different for every club and lets be honest the real money that rules football is not with the clubs. This season is over, does anybody think that we will be back playing in 4 weeks time? Lets not cock up next season and the longer we are in limbo the more likely that is. | |
| This is not the time for bickering.
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| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 03:44 - Apr 9 with 5626 views | TalkingSutty |
| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 22:43 - Apr 8 by kiwidale |
Once again Sutty you are talking a lot of sense. The longer a resumption is delayed the more difficult it will be to plan ahead, a decision, any decision needs to be made now. Money will rule a decision but financial implications will be different for every club and lets be honest the real money that rules football is not with the clubs. This season is over, does anybody think that we will be back playing in 4 weeks time? Lets not cock up next season and the longer we are in limbo the more likely that is. |
Tha damage to the overwhelming majority of Clubs will soon be caused by the uncertainty of the situation. At the moment Clubs can probably manage financially for another few months but then things start to become very serious and money starts to run out . The play offs should finish at the end of May (seven weeks time), that’s when the picture should be clearer on the likely timescale of things going forward, i think that’s when big decisions need to be made either way. If we are pretty confident of starting again at the end of September / October then null and void the leagues and start selling season tickets, new football shirts etc and start pre-season training in August. By doing that Clubs would be able to generate income straight away.
Like I said, I think we will end up having to fall into line with the rest of Europe and see what they do. Will the likes of Liverpool want to forfeit playing in the Champions League in order to complete this one at the back end of this year and the other Champions League/ Europa League places will need to be finalised to fall in line with the rest of the European leagues and UEFA. So the bigger picture isn’t what the likes of Liverpool, Leeds , WBA want, it impacts every Club in different ways.
The only other alternative I think is to average the points out from the remaining games and promote/relegate on the final points total but I reckon that will upset too many Clubs. The final solution could be to play out all the remaining games of this season, including all the play offs, FA Cup and finish with the Champions League. Maybe start in October or November and finish in December/ January. You would then have to miss out next season completely and start afresh in August. That’s a option that will increase the financial strain on every Club and many wouldn’t be able to cope and go to the wall..it would suit some Clubs though because they would gain the promotion that they rightfully deserve etc. Missing out on a full season and the television money etc isn’t something any Club would want, it’s their lifeline.
The more I think about it, nulling and voiding the league will prove to be the best financial solution for lower league Clubs and cause the least disruption but at the end of the day I think the decision will be dictated by what other European Leagues decide to do and the likes of Sky and the Champions League sponsors will also have a big input. As DAlien rightly points out, maybe now is the time for football to start thinking outside the box but at the end of the day they will always follow the money trail, we all know that.
Anyway, if we don’t get on top of this virus it’s feasible that we won’t be attending any football matches at all until next year when hopefully they find a vaccine. The notion of thousands of football fans all attending games together seems a million miles away never mind four or five months and then there is always the prospect of a secondary wave of infections. If I was a betting man, which i am, I think it will be 2021 before we are all making our way up to Spotland again. Maybe playing games behind closed doors will prove to be the only option available. [Post edited 9 Apr 2020 7:19]
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| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 07:00 - Apr 9 with 5572 views | James1980 |
If a sensible finance option were available, if the club is sold 5 year season ticket and used the funds for the improvements planned, would there be sufficient take up? | |
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| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 08:11 - Apr 9 with 5530 views | D_Alien |
| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 03:44 - Apr 9 by TalkingSutty |
Tha damage to the overwhelming majority of Clubs will soon be caused by the uncertainty of the situation. At the moment Clubs can probably manage financially for another few months but then things start to become very serious and money starts to run out . The play offs should finish at the end of May (seven weeks time), that’s when the picture should be clearer on the likely timescale of things going forward, i think that’s when big decisions need to be made either way. If we are pretty confident of starting again at the end of September / October then null and void the leagues and start selling season tickets, new football shirts etc and start pre-season training in August. By doing that Clubs would be able to generate income straight away.
Like I said, I think we will end up having to fall into line with the rest of Europe and see what they do. Will the likes of Liverpool want to forfeit playing in the Champions League in order to complete this one at the back end of this year and the other Champions League/ Europa League places will need to be finalised to fall in line with the rest of the European leagues and UEFA. So the bigger picture isn’t what the likes of Liverpool, Leeds , WBA want, it impacts every Club in different ways.
The only other alternative I think is to average the points out from the remaining games and promote/relegate on the final points total but I reckon that will upset too many Clubs. The final solution could be to play out all the remaining games of this season, including all the play offs, FA Cup and finish with the Champions League. Maybe start in October or November and finish in December/ January. You would then have to miss out next season completely and start afresh in August. That’s a option that will increase the financial strain on every Club and many wouldn’t be able to cope and go to the wall..it would suit some Clubs though because they would gain the promotion that they rightfully deserve etc. Missing out on a full season and the television money etc isn’t something any Club would want, it’s their lifeline.
The more I think about it, nulling and voiding the league will prove to be the best financial solution for lower league Clubs and cause the least disruption but at the end of the day I think the decision will be dictated by what other European Leagues decide to do and the likes of Sky and the Champions League sponsors will also have a big input. As DAlien rightly points out, maybe now is the time for football to start thinking outside the box but at the end of the day they will always follow the money trail, we all know that.
Anyway, if we don’t get on top of this virus it’s feasible that we won’t be attending any football matches at all until next year when hopefully they find a vaccine. The notion of thousands of football fans all attending games together seems a million miles away never mind four or five months and then there is always the prospect of a secondary wave of infections. If I was a betting man, which i am, I think it will be 2021 before we are all making our way up to Spotland again. Maybe playing games behind closed doors will prove to be the only option available. [Post edited 9 Apr 2020 7:19]
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But again, your suggested 'final solution' is anything but
The WC taking place in the winter of 2021 offers a unique opportunity for flexibility for next season - after finishing this one. Inserting scare stories about "missing next season altogether" gets us nowhere. Clubs, players & fans will have to adapt like never before to survive, and those clubs & leagues that prove to be most adaptable will be the ones that emerge stronger
A gradual return to the August-May season could be negotiated once the dust has settled, if it needs to - which isn't a given
The financial model that football had developed was starting to creak under the strain of it's own selfishness. Re-modelling along more sustainable lines could, indeed must be, a welcome by-product of this crisis. Integrity of competition is absolutely essential to this. Who wouldn't welcome that? | |
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| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 09:26 - Apr 9 with 5469 views | TalkingSutty |
| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 08:11 - Apr 9 by D_Alien |
But again, your suggested 'final solution' is anything but
The WC taking place in the winter of 2021 offers a unique opportunity for flexibility for next season - after finishing this one. Inserting scare stories about "missing next season altogether" gets us nowhere. Clubs, players & fans will have to adapt like never before to survive, and those clubs & leagues that prove to be most adaptable will be the ones that emerge stronger
A gradual return to the August-May season could be negotiated once the dust has settled, if it needs to - which isn't a given
The financial model that football had developed was starting to creak under the strain of it's own selfishness. Re-modelling along more sustainable lines could, indeed must be, a welcome by-product of this crisis. Integrity of competition is absolutely essential to this. Who wouldn't welcome that? |
Well we all have different ideas as to the best solution but the biggest threat to the lower league Clubs is the lack of cash flow. The uncertainty and insistence on finishing this season means it could be the end of the year before season ticket sales/ shirt sales etc can start, it just delays the opportunity to bring in money that will be desperately needed in two or three months time. The survival of football clubs is more important than shoehorning in the remaining fixtures and then disrupting the following seasons,obviously you don’t agree with that which is your prerogative.
I agree about integrity of competition but do you honestly think the Premiership and EFL will just decide to remodel the game in our Country, how could they do that? They will have to be guided by what happens in the European leagues for a start in order to fall in line with the European Cup competions. Anyway, let’s see what happens, but in my mind all options are on the table and the decision going forward has to be the one that causes the least financial pain to the majority of the Clubs. In an ideal world of course we all want to see the season finish but we are now in the middle of a unprecedented crisis so who knows what will happen. The over riding factor though will revolve around money/television deals/ sponsors, it always does. [Post edited 9 Apr 2020 9:27]
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| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 10:15 - Apr 9 with 5400 views | DaleyBrent |
We really are in a dogfight for the future of our football club. As of the fans forum with the appropriate Presentations I’ve been 100% on side with the current Board of Directors. They care massively about the future Of our football club; proven by the huge investment they were going to make into the pitch, ticketing system and other stadia infrastructure.
When we come out the end of this it’s time for us to (where possible, of course) dig into our pockets a little deeper for the football club. Maybe buy a piece of merchandise, stay after the game for a few celebratory pints in the clubs bars, and get our money for next seasons tickets in as quickly as possible to help with cash flow.
Some clubs and supporters won’t stand strong to this mess but we have to stay united in the fight for our football club.
Hope everyone is keeping safe!
Up the Dale ðŸ”µâš«ï¸ |  | | |
| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 11:16 - Apr 9 with 5337 views | D_Alien |
| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 09:26 - Apr 9 by TalkingSutty |
Well we all have different ideas as to the best solution but the biggest threat to the lower league Clubs is the lack of cash flow. The uncertainty and insistence on finishing this season means it could be the end of the year before season ticket sales/ shirt sales etc can start, it just delays the opportunity to bring in money that will be desperately needed in two or three months time. The survival of football clubs is more important than shoehorning in the remaining fixtures and then disrupting the following seasons,obviously you don’t agree with that which is your prerogative.
I agree about integrity of competition but do you honestly think the Premiership and EFL will just decide to remodel the game in our Country, how could they do that? They will have to be guided by what happens in the European leagues for a start in order to fall in line with the European Cup competions. Anyway, let’s see what happens, but in my mind all options are on the table and the decision going forward has to be the one that causes the least financial pain to the majority of the Clubs. In an ideal world of course we all want to see the season finish but we are now in the middle of a unprecedented crisis so who knows what will happen. The over riding factor though will revolve around money/television deals/ sponsors, it always does. [Post edited 9 Apr 2020 9:27]
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Sorry TS, but your point about cashflow* actually makes it imperative this season is completed
If it isn't, the potential downturn in ST sales ahead of a "maybe it will, maybe it won't" start for 20/21 in August/Autumn would be disastrous. You might buy, but how many others would, especially with household incomes depressed and far, far more over-riding concerns?
ST sales for the next season would be not too far off their current levels, only with proper marketing and a completed 19/20 where people can see that football is getting back into a rhythm, albeit a new one
And as you pointed out earlier, there is a temporary input of funds from higher up the chain to cover the shortfall in the interim
*Yes, i do get the difference between cashflow & income, but the point still stands
[Post edited 9 Apr 2020 11:29]
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| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 13:21 - Apr 9 with 5229 views | TalkingSutty |
| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 11:16 - Apr 9 by D_Alien |
Sorry TS, but your point about cashflow* actually makes it imperative this season is completed
If it isn't, the potential downturn in ST sales ahead of a "maybe it will, maybe it won't" start for 20/21 in August/Autumn would be disastrous. You might buy, but how many others would, especially with household incomes depressed and far, far more over-riding concerns?
ST sales for the next season would be not too far off their current levels, only with proper marketing and a completed 19/20 where people can see that football is getting back into a rhythm, albeit a new one
And as you pointed out earlier, there is a temporary input of funds from higher up the chain to cover the shortfall in the interim
*Yes, i do get the difference between cashflow & income, but the point still stands
[Post edited 9 Apr 2020 11:29]
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To be honest there is no ideal solution to this is there, football is a distraction but it's the least of our worries at the moment. Fingers crossed as a fanbase and Club staff etc we all come out the other side. | | | |
| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 00:23 - Apr 10 with 4973 views | 49thseason |
In the short term, maybe we could take a slightly different view of season tickets.
To charge everyone for a full season would seem to be a non starter in case the season was disrupted again, once bitten and all that. So why not allow those who want to sit in "their" seat buy a "reservation for the proposed season of say £30 this would permit pay on the day to happen until such time as it became clear that the season would run as normal and would enable people to have their usual seats.
Once it was established that the full season would go ahead, a season tickets could be offered for say 15 games to the end of the season.
Not perfect but it solves one or two problems, fans get their seats, the club gets some revenue and the doubts about the length of the season are mitigated. The club is usually keen on season ticket sales to fill the financial void from May to August but if the League is prepared to bring forward their contributions it may not be so critical this year especially if the pitch repairs dont happen quite as planned. |  | | |
| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 14:24 - Apr 10 with 4816 views | Dalenet |
DB will find it hard to sleep at night, as will many people trying to save their businesses too. Do any of us believe that clubs will learn from this and cut their cloth in the future? I don't. With most clubs heavily in debt the cash flow challenge is just one issue. For those without substantial debt (like Dale) we still need cash and the league's advance payments just kick the can down the road.
Many clubs have already sold next years season tickets and so they have a real moral dilemma. Some Premiership clubs have taken automated direct debit payments from people that have lost their job for a product that they might not get to see. At least we don't have those issues to contend with.
One thing DB doesn't mention is the benefit of the Govt initiatives. How much does delaying VAT payments and the business rates relief help us? £100k, £200k. I just don't know.
Nobody will want to buy a season ticket in advance of clarity on the likelihood of the season going ahead. If we do install the new electronic system as DB has alluded to in his Easter message, we could go then provide a season ticket deal whereby we all pay quarterly. We buy the first XX games (regardless of when they are played) and see whether the 2020/21 season starts. We then get charged further installments as it progresses. If anybody defaults on the payments the card system stops them from entering the stadium. If the season was to be halted again, so would the payment collection. Would help a little bit and give the fans some confidence to buy.
One final point. Lots of people have lost their job and are struggling and its so sad. But many haven't and the lock down means they are saving rather than spending cash. I am using some of my savings to help charities that are struggling, but we all need to find a way to spend some of those savings at the club. Whether that be advance hospitality bookings, paying for bar vouchers, etc. Whatever the club can do to get cash as soon as there is some certainty that we will play a 2020/21 season has to be worked out now | | | |
| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 16:19 - Apr 10 with 4748 views | James1980 |
| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 14:24 - Apr 10 by Dalenet |
DB will find it hard to sleep at night, as will many people trying to save their businesses too. Do any of us believe that clubs will learn from this and cut their cloth in the future? I don't. With most clubs heavily in debt the cash flow challenge is just one issue. For those without substantial debt (like Dale) we still need cash and the league's advance payments just kick the can down the road.
Many clubs have already sold next years season tickets and so they have a real moral dilemma. Some Premiership clubs have taken automated direct debit payments from people that have lost their job for a product that they might not get to see. At least we don't have those issues to contend with.
One thing DB doesn't mention is the benefit of the Govt initiatives. How much does delaying VAT payments and the business rates relief help us? £100k, £200k. I just don't know.
Nobody will want to buy a season ticket in advance of clarity on the likelihood of the season going ahead. If we do install the new electronic system as DB has alluded to in his Easter message, we could go then provide a season ticket deal whereby we all pay quarterly. We buy the first XX games (regardless of when they are played) and see whether the 2020/21 season starts. We then get charged further installments as it progresses. If anybody defaults on the payments the card system stops them from entering the stadium. If the season was to be halted again, so would the payment collection. Would help a little bit and give the fans some confidence to buy.
One final point. Lots of people have lost their job and are struggling and its so sad. But many haven't and the lock down means they are saving rather than spending cash. I am using some of my savings to help charities that are struggling, but we all need to find a way to spend some of those savings at the club. Whether that be advance hospitality bookings, paying for bar vouchers, etc. Whatever the club can do to get cash as soon as there is some certainty that we will play a 2020/21 season has to be worked out now |
Can gift vouchers be used to buy season tickets? | |
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| Telegraph article with David Bottomley (n/t) on 16:47 - Apr 10 with 4724 views | TalkingSutty |
| Telegraph article with David Bottomley on 14:24 - Apr 10 by Dalenet |
DB will find it hard to sleep at night, as will many people trying to save their businesses too. Do any of us believe that clubs will learn from this and cut their cloth in the future? I don't. With most clubs heavily in debt the cash flow challenge is just one issue. For those without substantial debt (like Dale) we still need cash and the league's advance payments just kick the can down the road.
Many clubs have already sold next years season tickets and so they have a real moral dilemma. Some Premiership clubs have taken automated direct debit payments from people that have lost their job for a product that they might not get to see. At least we don't have those issues to contend with.
One thing DB doesn't mention is the benefit of the Govt initiatives. How much does delaying VAT payments and the business rates relief help us? £100k, £200k. I just don't know.
Nobody will want to buy a season ticket in advance of clarity on the likelihood of the season going ahead. If we do install the new electronic system as DB has alluded to in his Easter message, we could go then provide a season ticket deal whereby we all pay quarterly. We buy the first XX games (regardless of when they are played) and see whether the 2020/21 season starts. We then get charged further installments as it progresses. If anybody defaults on the payments the card system stops them from entering the stadium. If the season was to be halted again, so would the payment collection. Would help a little bit and give the fans some confidence to buy.
One final point. Lots of people have lost their job and are struggling and its so sad. But many haven't and the lock down means they are saving rather than spending cash. I am using some of my savings to help charities that are struggling, but we all need to find a way to spend some of those savings at the club. Whether that be advance hospitality bookings, paying for bar vouchers, etc. Whatever the club can do to get cash as soon as there is some certainty that we will play a 2020/21 season has to be worked out now |
Until we have clarification of what is happening with future fixture then Clubs are stuck. If this season was declared null and void then season tickets could now be in the process of being sorted out and so could new shirt sales etc. That money could be the difference between some Clubs surviving or going under. [Post edited 10 Apr 2020 16:55]
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| Telegraph article with David Bottomley (n/t) on 18:23 - Apr 10 with 4641 views | D_Alien |
| Telegraph article with David Bottomley (n/t) on 16:47 - Apr 10 by TalkingSutty |
Until we have clarification of what is happening with future fixture then Clubs are stuck. If this season was declared null and void then season tickets could now be in the process of being sorted out and so could new shirt sales etc. That money could be the difference between some Clubs surviving or going under. [Post edited 10 Apr 2020 16:55]
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Only if the volume of sales was in any way equivalent to what would normally be happening at this time of year
I'd be very surprised if it was anywhere near that volume, and therefore potential income from the loss of the remaining fixtures would be lost in vain. Not only that, but it'd grate with a lot of people to be looking at a letter from the CEO asking for their money up front; people who may have lost loved ones, or are still dealing with all the issues concerning covid-19 and lockdown
I'd like to see how even the greatest diplomat in the world might word such a letter | |
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