| Garry Monk...... on 08:20 - Mar 28 with 1585 views | AnotherJohn |
| Garry Monk...... on 00:48 - Mar 28 by jackedup |
That "dickhead" brought quality players at bargain basement prices and thus was able to catapult Swansea to the League Cup title and to Europe.
What happened when he was no longer able to participate in the recruitment?
We were saddled with the likes of Fernandez, Gomis, Tabanou, Naughton, and the like. The only one who matched the quality of the Tutumlu recruitments in the Monk era was Fabianski. But even his recruitment was a kind of curse in disguise, because Monk became overly reliant on him. |
I often wonder whether Tutumlu was quite the villain he is painted. As far as I can see his biggest problem was ego and wanting to push through his own plans while scorning what our scouts were suggesting. I didn't agree with his alleged scheme to sell Ash to finance a big name striker. But if he had brought in somebody like Aubameyang (one of the names mooted) who knows how things would have worked out. As far as I can see the rumours about him taking big money from the club were wide of the mark - agents' fees seem to have increased since that time. We've moved on now, but Jackedup is right to say Tutumlu brought us some value-for-money signings. For sure though, diplomacy and PR weren't among his strengths. |  | |  |
| Garry Monk...... on 08:27 - Mar 28 with 1577 views | jackedup |
| Garry Monk...... on 08:20 - Mar 28 by AnotherJohn |
I often wonder whether Tutumlu was quite the villain he is painted. As far as I can see his biggest problem was ego and wanting to push through his own plans while scorning what our scouts were suggesting. I didn't agree with his alleged scheme to sell Ash to finance a big name striker. But if he had brought in somebody like Aubameyang (one of the names mooted) who knows how things would have worked out. As far as I can see the rumours about him taking big money from the club were wide of the mark - agents' fees seem to have increased since that time. We've moved on now, but Jackedup is right to say Tutumlu brought us some value-for-money signings. For sure though, diplomacy and PR weren't among his strengths. |
You talk about Tutumlu's "alleged scheme" to sell Ash. But why don't you mention who was making such allegations? Why are the ones who make such allegations anonymous?
I actually find such rumours to be rather ridiculous. For the right price, every player at Swansea can be sold, and that goes for Ash too. But that doesn't mean that listening to an offer means that one has plans to sell.
Regardless of what Tutumlu's thoughts actually were, why do you suppose that the problem was necessarily with him and not with Jenkins? It looks to me that the ones with more experience and expertise should have a say in how things are done rather than a chairman or the board recruiting the likes of Shelvey and Tabanou. | | | |
| Garry Monk...... on 08:41 - Mar 28 with 1553 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Garry Monk...... on 22:24 - Mar 27 by Dr_Winston |
"The Swansea Way" is a myth. A self-congratulating nonsense built up around our recent success. We've never been the only team to play passing football.
What we did do well for the better part of fifteen years was to select managers capable of building upon the work of their predecessors and continuing to move the club forward. We've had one misstep since then. Hopefully it won't be two. |
I think there is such a thing as the Swansea way but it refers to a team assembled rather cheaply which is the sum greater than its parts, of almost journeymen players playing cohesively as a team but to greater effect . Maybe an emphasis on buying a right fitting player cheaply than trying to shoe horn in a more expensive one that doesn't (recent acquisitions like Shelvey, Gomis, Tabannou, Fernandez etc etc).
I don't think it is down to a particular style of play although I think it does rightfully conjure an image of passing on the deck and non goofball. |  |
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| Garry Monk...... on 08:50 - Mar 28 with 1539 views | Starsky |
| Garry Monk...... on 08:41 - Mar 28 by Brynmill_Jack |
I think there is such a thing as the Swansea way but it refers to a team assembled rather cheaply which is the sum greater than its parts, of almost journeymen players playing cohesively as a team but to greater effect . Maybe an emphasis on buying a right fitting player cheaply than trying to shoe horn in a more expensive one that doesn't (recent acquisitions like Shelvey, Gomis, Tabannou, Fernandez etc etc).
I don't think it is down to a particular style of play although I think it does rightfully conjure an image of passing on the deck and non goofball. |
Absolutely |  |
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| Garry Monk...... on 08:55 - Mar 28 with 1527 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Garry Monk...... on 08:27 - Mar 28 by jackedup |
You talk about Tutumlu's "alleged scheme" to sell Ash. But why don't you mention who was making such allegations? Why are the ones who make such allegations anonymous?
I actually find such rumours to be rather ridiculous. For the right price, every player at Swansea can be sold, and that goes for Ash too. But that doesn't mean that listening to an offer means that one has plans to sell.
Regardless of what Tutumlu's thoughts actually were, why do you suppose that the problem was necessarily with him and not with Jenkins? It looks to me that the ones with more experience and expertise should have a say in how things are done rather than a chairman or the board recruiting the likes of Shelvey and Tabanou. |
I agree. Perhaps selling Ashley Williams was the right thing to do if for argument's sake we sold him 3 years ago for 10-12 million and Tutumulu had a young, hungry and able replacement lined up for 3-5 million and on less of a weekly wage.
Clubs NEED to evolve and the way we have regressed over the last two years make it look like calls like those were the right calls to make. OK, so he was an agent lining his own pockets too but if we had carried on successfully because of it he'd be worth it in my book. Besides, Moralee is by far the bigger **** judging by how he's deluded Neil Taylor into thinking he's the new Stuart Pearce | |
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| Garry Monk...... on 09:05 - Mar 28 with 1510 views | Dewi1jack |
| Garry Monk...... on 08:20 - Mar 28 by AnotherJohn |
I often wonder whether Tutumlu was quite the villain he is painted. As far as I can see his biggest problem was ego and wanting to push through his own plans while scorning what our scouts were suggesting. I didn't agree with his alleged scheme to sell Ash to finance a big name striker. But if he had brought in somebody like Aubameyang (one of the names mooted) who knows how things would have worked out. As far as I can see the rumours about him taking big money from the club were wide of the mark - agents' fees seem to have increased since that time. We've moved on now, but Jackedup is right to say Tutumlu brought us some value-for-money signings. For sure though, diplomacy and PR weren't among his strengths. |
That last part is definitely true.
Tutumlu's "how to win friends and influence people" is right up there with Hitler's ideas of a country retreat
Not all of his were great. In fact some were so obviously his retirement fund top up (Schecter???)
Shelvey. There is a decent player with talent in there somewhere. But he came with a warning from Charlton and Liverpool. Newcastle got him with those warnings and one from us.
Still the club made profit on him, so not all bad. Plus we had his best games out of him.
Still not sure that Will was on Loudstrop's (or Tutumulu's) shopping list. Thinking that was the club's scouting network. No hard evidence just a gut feeling.
Hopefully GM can learn from his mistakes. Put his ego to bed and start again.
There looks like there may be a decent manager in there provided he picks the right back room staff |  |
| If you wake up breathing, thats a good start to your day and you'll make many thousands of people envious. |
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| Garry Monk...... on 09:09 - Mar 28 with 1498 views | jack247 |
| Garry Monk...... on 08:41 - Mar 28 by Brynmill_Jack |
I think there is such a thing as the Swansea way but it refers to a team assembled rather cheaply which is the sum greater than its parts, of almost journeymen players playing cohesively as a team but to greater effect . Maybe an emphasis on buying a right fitting player cheaply than trying to shoe horn in a more expensive one that doesn't (recent acquisitions like Shelvey, Gomis, Tabannou, Fernandez etc etc).
I don't think it is down to a particular style of play although I think it does rightfully conjure an image of passing on the deck and non goofball. |
100% on a team that equals greater than the sum of its parts.
In terms of playing style, whether people think it's pompous to call it the Swansea Way or not, we had a very defined playing style from the Martinez days until fairly recently. Managers tweaked it, Sousa put a defensive spin on it, Rodgers and Laudrup brought their own stamp. It was always a possession based 451/433 though and it allowed us to punch above our weight, even in the Championship, where we were one of the smaller teams at the time.
Garry made us 'hard to beat' apparently. | | | |
| Garry Monk...... on 09:15 - Mar 28 with 1487 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Garry Monk...... on 09:09 - Mar 28 by jack247 |
100% on a team that equals greater than the sum of its parts.
In terms of playing style, whether people think it's pompous to call it the Swansea Way or not, we had a very defined playing style from the Martinez days until fairly recently. Managers tweaked it, Sousa put a defensive spin on it, Rodgers and Laudrup brought their own stamp. It was always a possession based 451/433 though and it allowed us to punch above our weight, even in the Championship, where we were one of the smaller teams at the time.
Garry made us 'hard to beat' apparently. |
"Garry made us 'hard to beat' apparently."
Nobody told the opposition that lol!
There has been evolution of Martinez' style and Bren and ML tweaked it to fantastic effect. | |
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| Garry Monk...... on 10:27 - Mar 28 with 1431 views | AnotherJohn |
| Garry Monk...... on 08:27 - Mar 28 by jackedup |
You talk about Tutumlu's "alleged scheme" to sell Ash. But why don't you mention who was making such allegations? Why are the ones who make such allegations anonymous?
I actually find such rumours to be rather ridiculous. For the right price, every player at Swansea can be sold, and that goes for Ash too. But that doesn't mean that listening to an offer means that one has plans to sell.
Regardless of what Tutumlu's thoughts actually were, why do you suppose that the problem was necessarily with him and not with Jenkins? It looks to me that the ones with more experience and expertise should have a say in how things are done rather than a chairman or the board recruiting the likes of Shelvey and Tabanou. |
Surely you remember that the plan to sell Ash was part of PS folklore at the time? I wasn't keen because I rate Ash very highly, but as I said one of two of the striker names mooted from that time have delivered well for other teams and Tutumlu (correct spelling) may have had a sound plan.
Overall I'm puzzled by your reaction to a post that generally supports your position. It seems like a case of not wanting to take yes for an answer.
I see a couple of people are still talking about Tutumlu's 'retirement fund' etc, but I've never seen any evidence that he took more than a moderate cut. Am I not right to say that our agents ' fees have shot up hugely since his day? | | | |
| Garry Monk...... on 11:03 - Mar 28 with 1393 views | monmouth |
| Garry Monk...... on 10:27 - Mar 28 by AnotherJohn |
Surely you remember that the plan to sell Ash was part of PS folklore at the time? I wasn't keen because I rate Ash very highly, but as I said one of two of the striker names mooted from that time have delivered well for other teams and Tutumlu (correct spelling) may have had a sound plan.
Overall I'm puzzled by your reaction to a post that generally supports your position. It seems like a case of not wanting to take yes for an answer.
I see a couple of people are still talking about Tutumlu's 'retirement fund' etc, but I've never seen any evidence that he took more than a moderate cut. Am I not right to say that our agents ' fees have shot up hugely since his day? |
Sprout can't bear any criticism of Laudy or Tutu, even if it doesn't really exist. |  |
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| Garry Monk...... on 11:11 - Mar 28 with 1384 views | jackedup |
| Garry Monk...... on 10:27 - Mar 28 by AnotherJohn |
Surely you remember that the plan to sell Ash was part of PS folklore at the time? I wasn't keen because I rate Ash very highly, but as I said one of two of the striker names mooted from that time have delivered well for other teams and Tutumlu (correct spelling) may have had a sound plan.
Overall I'm puzzled by your reaction to a post that generally supports your position. It seems like a case of not wanting to take yes for an answer.
I see a couple of people are still talking about Tutumlu's 'retirement fund' etc, but I've never seen any evidence that he took more than a moderate cut. Am I not right to say that our agents ' fees have shot up hugely since his day? |
Folklore doesn't mean it is credible. It is also folklore that Laudrup "f*cked off to Paris" to use the words of a poster on these boards. But Laudrup flatly denied he was in Paris, and furthermore said that he had agreed on taking this day to tend to some personal matters ahead of time with Jenkins. | | | |
| Garry Monk...... on 11:12 - Mar 28 with 1380 views | jackedup |
| Garry Monk...... on 11:03 - Mar 28 by monmouth |
Sprout can't bear any criticism of Laudy or Tutu, even if it doesn't really exist. |
False rumours do not constitute legitimate criticism. If one is going to perpetuate such myths, they should be able to name the sources for their information. | | | |
| Garry Monk...... on 15:17 - Mar 28 with 1304 views | Davillin |
| Garry Monk...... on 03:52 - Mar 28 by jackedup |
Interesting to see Monk's tenure in light of an theorist on organisational management and change named Kotter.
"John Kotter (1996) found eight common reasons why change efforts fail. Complacency was a key factor, preventing people from seeing the need for urgency. Lack of a guiding coalition to steer and build the change effort was another, causing hapless change agents to struggle with ‘undoable’ challenges. Underestimating the power of a vision, and under-communicating the vision and rationale for change meant that people did not commit to a joint effort. Similarly, allowing obstacles to block the vision caused change efforts to go backwards. Failing to create short-term ‘wins’ to give people a sense of progress, declaring victory too soon and leaving the tough things unchanged, and failure to institutionalize changes firmly enough in the corporate culture caused organizations to lose the benefits of what had been achieved." quote from Holbeche, Linda. Understanding change. Routledge, 2007. |
Fascinating. But where are the three most significant reasons for failure to effect changes: fundamentally flawed plans for change, incompetence of the leader, and being in over one's head? |  |
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| Garry Monk...... on 17:44 - Mar 28 with 1258 views | Drizzy |
Good lord the people will do anything to excuse Laudrup. It's phenomenal revisionism and it's nonsense to start blaming injuries. To the person that created a 10 point list and added "de Guzman and Routledge not playing well" as if that's a legitimate excuse in the same way a congested fixture list is. Unbelievable.
People can continue to talk about how Monk destroyed our style of play but he accumulated more points over 38 Premier League then any of our other much lauded managers. He needed to leave when he did, mind. He shouldn't have even been appointed in the first place but that's another debate. It's narrow-minded to create a narrative that he destroyed us or that he ruined a working system. The way we played under Rodgers and Laudrup would NOT have worked with the players we had under Monk. |  |
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| Garry Monk...... on 17:53 - Mar 28 with 1236 views | Drizzy |
| Garry Monk...... on 08:20 - Mar 28 by AnotherJohn |
I often wonder whether Tutumlu was quite the villain he is painted. As far as I can see his biggest problem was ego and wanting to push through his own plans while scorning what our scouts were suggesting. I didn't agree with his alleged scheme to sell Ash to finance a big name striker. But if he had brought in somebody like Aubameyang (one of the names mooted) who knows how things would have worked out. As far as I can see the rumours about him taking big money from the club were wide of the mark - agents' fees seem to have increased since that time. We've moved on now, but Jackedup is right to say Tutumlu brought us some value-for-money signings. For sure though, diplomacy and PR weren't among his strengths. |
Wow. Where to begin with this? Tutumlu was a cancer. A couple of tenuous links to a striker well out of our price range are irrelevant. He was a constant headache and the main reason Laudrup and the board fell out. He got decent value for money but the players he brought in left for peanuts. They weren't good long-term purchases for the team. | |
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| Garry Monk...... on 17:56 - Mar 28 with 1227 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Garry Monk...... on 10:59 - Mar 26 by Starsky |
I hold my hands up Phil, You were right all along.
After taking over from Laudrup and his first full season I regarded that as a success and let's face it, it was.
Then when things started going wrong early in the season, I still thought it was a good appointment and that he should be given the chance to turn it around etc.
Now, all I see of GM is that he was a stubborn man who surrounded himself with questionable assistants.
Ironically he would show the new signings the Swansea City videos to show them the Swansea City that came back from the dead. Unfortunately he was slowly undoing everything that we'd built up on the playing field, with the likes of Clotet at the expense of Curtis, who was being pushed away.
HJ offered GM the chance of better assistants but his ego and stubbornness ultimately cost him his job by refusing that help.
He gets no sympathy from me, he already thought he knew it all.
KOL on the bench and Curt in the stands?
Feck him. [Post edited 26 Mar 2016 11:01]
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Ooh Phil, you were so right all along.
Was he bollocks. Nauseating. |  |
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| Garry Monk...... on 17:57 - Mar 28 with 1225 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Garry Monk...... on 17:53 - Mar 28 by Drizzy |
Wow. Where to begin with this? Tutumlu was a cancer. A couple of tenuous links to a striker well out of our price range are irrelevant. He was a constant headache and the main reason Laudrup and the board fell out. He got decent value for money but the players he brought in left for peanuts. They weren't good long-term purchases for the team. |
The reason why we sold them for peanuts was because Garry wanted rid of all the "Sanish C*nts" as soon as possible. Now if we're talking of cancerous figures there's your man. Not even the players would seak to him on the end. | |
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| Garry Monk...... on 18:06 - Mar 28 with 1206 views | Drizzy |
| Garry Monk...... on 17:57 - Mar 28 by Brynmill_Jack |
The reason why we sold them for peanuts was because Garry wanted rid of all the "Sanish C*nts" as soon as possible. Now if we're talking of cancerous figures there's your man. Not even the players would seak to him on the end. |
No he didn't. He kept, or wanted to keep, the good players. De Guzman was never ours, Hernandez always struggled with injuries and f*cked off to get a retirement payday, Chico surprisingly took the easy option and an early retirement payday and I believe he was in Monk's plans.
There are plenty of legitimate criticisms of Monk. There's no need to create a false narrative and make him a scapegoat for the club's decline this season. I'm certainly not going to lick the arse of those who unfairly criticised him from the moment he was appointed and claimed they were right all along when things turned sour. Nauseating d*cks, the lot of them. | |
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| Garry Monk...... on 18:08 - Mar 28 with 1204 views | Drizzy |
| Garry Monk...... on 17:56 - Mar 28 by exiledclaseboy |
Ooh Phil, you were so right all along.
Was he bollocks. Nauseating. |
Innit. They were nowhere to be seen on here during our BEST PREMIER LEAGUE SEASON EVER. Unsurprisingly they all came out the woodwork when things turned sour.
Bunch of c*nts. | |
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| Garry Monk...... on 18:12 - Mar 28 with 1199 views | Drizzy |
| Garry Monk...... on 09:15 - Mar 28 by Brynmill_Jack |
"Garry made us 'hard to beat' apparently."
Nobody told the opposition that lol!
There has been evolution of Martinez' style and Bren and ML tweaked it to fantastic effect. |
Well considering we won more games in Monk one full season than we did in any other I'd say that's a fair claim. | |
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| Garry Monk...... on 18:28 - Mar 28 with 1162 views | Darran |
Michael Laudrup hasn't exactly taken over as manager of the century since he left us mind. |  |
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| Garry Monk...... on 18:52 - Mar 28 with 1137 views | jack247 |
| Garry Monk...... on 17:44 - Mar 28 by Drizzy |
Good lord the people will do anything to excuse Laudrup. It's phenomenal revisionism and it's nonsense to start blaming injuries. To the person that created a 10 point list and added "de Guzman and Routledge not playing well" as if that's a legitimate excuse in the same way a congested fixture list is. Unbelievable.
People can continue to talk about how Monk destroyed our style of play but he accumulated more points over 38 Premier League then any of our other much lauded managers. He needed to leave when he did, mind. He shouldn't have even been appointed in the first place but that's another debate. It's narrow-minded to create a narrative that he destroyed us or that he ruined a working system. The way we played under Rodgers and Laudrup would NOT have worked with the players we had under Monk. |
The way we played under Monk DID NOT work under Monk. That is why he was sacked. He picked up most of his points before he changed the system. | | | |
| Garry Monk...... on 19:12 - Mar 28 with 1128 views | jack247 |
| Garry Monk...... on 18:28 - Mar 28 by Darran |
Michael Laudrup hasn't exactly taken over as manager of the century since he left us mind. |
He deserved to go as well. The one thing Drizzy is right about is pretending it was all rosy in the garden under Laudrup is nuts. | | | |
| Garry Monk...... on 19:15 - Mar 28 with 1121 views | exiledclaseboy |
I don't know why everyone has to work themselves into a tizz every time a manager leaves us. Monk did well, very well for a while then it went tits up so he left. Ditto Laudrup, Jackett, Flynn, Yorath, Hollins, Toshack and about 80% of every other club manager in football ever. [Post edited 28 Mar 2016 19:16]
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| Garry Monk...... on 19:21 - Mar 28 with 1103 views | Davillin |
| Garry Monk...... on 18:12 - Mar 28 by Drizzy |
Well considering we won more games in Monk one full season than we did in any other I'd say that's a fair claim. |
Now that's several posters who praised Monk for his "won more games" season, while ignoring the next season when he brought us so close to relegation that, after Guidolin's and Curtis' stellar work, we're still not out of danger.
Nor do those same posters point out that in the "big" season, he used players and tactics that he inherited from a line of managers who built it, but almost took us down using his own preferred players and radically changed tactics.
"Apples and oranges" as a shorthand for "bad comparison" needs to be replaced with "Monk's big season" and "Monk's near disaster."
And I cannot be accused of not liking Monk or being biased against him.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but no-one is entitled to his own facts." | |
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