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Whilst on the subject of england I was watching the FIFA film of Mexico 86. All the england fans had union flags, Union Jack shirts, Union Jack t shirts etc.....
Fast forward 10 years to euro 96 and it's all st George's flags, no sign of the union flag.
My take on it, is that there has been a gradual reversing from being British by all UK member countries over the last 20 years or so.
Buy something on-line (as I once did) and it took me ages to find GB had changed to UK!
Alex Salmond will give you a better answer than I can.
Basically it's a movement from the other UK countries not to be lumped in with England, and as that's progressed, the English fans have ditched the Union Jack in favour of the St. George, to try and retain their identity. Ironically I have both on my arms! Both are equal to me.
England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland constitute the United Kingdom, whose flag is the Union Flag / Jack.
England’s flag is the St.George’s flag.
This goes back a few hundred years - it is not a recent thing. The change you refer to is simply that the 1996 fans were more knowledgeable than the 1986 fans.
Our Olympics team represents the UK, so the Union Flag is correctly used. (It was referred to as TeamGB in the 2012 games, but technically this was incorrect, since GB does not include Northern Ireland, whereas the team includes NI sportspeople.)
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England fans and the union flag on 09:59 - May 25 with 5160 views
England fans and the union flag on 23:25 - May 24 by R17ALE
It's interesting, I grant you.
My take on it, is that there has been a gradual reversing from being British by all UK member countries over the last 20 years or so.
Buy something on-line (as I once did) and it took me ages to find GB had changed to UK!
Alex Salmond will give you a better answer than I can.
Basically it's a movement from the other UK countries not to be lumped in with England, and as that's progressed, the English fans have ditched the Union Jack in favour of the St. George, to try and retain their identity. Ironically I have both on my arms! Both are equal to me.
[Post edited 24 May 2014 23:25]
I found it interesting as well. I was trying to find out when exactly it happened. Looking at footage of italia 90 the Union Jack is still the prominent flag. Euro 92, it's a mix. We didn't qualify for USA 94 ( do I not like that) but by Euro 96 it's st George's flags all the way....
I suppose the inclusion of Scotland in our group could explain it a little at Euro 96. However I'm thinking something more political in the early 90s that changed things.
Morrissey got in all sorts of bother for draping himself in a Union flag at Madstock in the early nineties. It had other connotations back then although having songs like National Front Disco didn't help.
England fans and the union flag on 10:09 - May 25 by BartRowou
Morrissey got in all sorts of bother for draping himself in a Union flag at Madstock in the early nineties. It had other connotations back then although having songs like National Front Disco didn't help.
'National Front Disco' is actually my favourite Morrissey song! Shame he was hounded for it really.
Best buddy of' Irish_rafc' xox
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England fans and the union flag on 11:57 - May 25 with 5036 views
England fans and the union flag on 09:59 - May 25 by modelboydave
I found it interesting as well. I was trying to find out when exactly it happened. Looking at footage of italia 90 the Union Jack is still the prominent flag. Euro 92, it's a mix. We didn't qualify for USA 94 ( do I not like that) but by Euro 96 it's st George's flags all the way....
I suppose the inclusion of Scotland in our group could explain it a little at Euro 96. However I'm thinking something more political in the early 90s that changed things.
I don't know whether anything specifically happened politically.
Things are cyclic. Plus a sense of football being some people's only sense of patriotic outlet.
As the pc brigade of the 90's grew to the point Castle Taxis' logo was being questioned, perhaps folk thought 'fook this. I'm English.'
I think it's a collective thing across the population and the shift is more visible on football terraces than it is in Westminster or within the marble halls of the MCC.
England fans and the union flag on 09:59 - May 25 by modelboydave
I found it interesting as well. I was trying to find out when exactly it happened. Looking at footage of italia 90 the Union Jack is still the prominent flag. Euro 92, it's a mix. We didn't qualify for USA 94 ( do I not like that) but by Euro 96 it's st George's flags all the way....
I suppose the inclusion of Scotland in our group could explain it a little at Euro 96. However I'm thinking something more political in the early 90s that changed things.
Been giving it some thought as it's very interesting the huge shift in flags in the 1990's.
Looking back, I think the shift is probably a hooligan related thing.
In the 80's, hooliganism was dubbed the English Disease. Not sure by who, but the tag stuck.
The media also went to great lengths to show the Scottish* and Irish fans in a good light, whilst blackening the English support. The Welsh didn't qualify for anything so they were omitted.
*A complete myth by the way. The Casual Scene was very prevalent in Scotland with the likes of Aberdeen leading the way.
Anyway, as tournaments came and went, European hooligan bragging rights were up for grabs, usually between the Germans, Dutch and British?
And, I think as British doesn't sound right, the England fans realised that the St. George was the only flag they wanted to fight for, the flag of the English Disease, a source of pride and fear if you were that way inclined back then, which sadly many were.
All of the above is only my opinion and might be bollox, but looking back, it does make sense.
England fans and the union flag on 13:35 - May 25 by sandylaner1
My favourite version
The documentary 'The Importance Of Being Morrissey' has a great section about it, where the guitarist talks about the moment he was told about the song. Pretty funny actually.
Anyway, where's Irish_Rafc when you need a good flag chat?
Best buddy of' Irish_rafc' xox
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England fans and the union flag on 14:42 - May 25 with 4885 views
In a way the Union jack flag has been associated with hooliganism in the football world from the 70's/80's, coupled with the fact countries like Wales and Scotland have developed more of an identity in themselves in the last 20 or so years.
Life is a game of fate.
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England fans and the union flag on 15:05 - May 25 with 4851 views
England fans and the union flag on 14:42 - May 25 by olympicdale
In a way the Union jack flag has been associated with hooliganism in the football world from the 70's/80's, coupled with the fact countries like Wales and Scotland have developed more of an identity in themselves in the last 20 or so years.
"Nice summary" of the above posts.
For what it's worth, Euro 96 sticks in my mind as the real turning point, and as mbd points out, having Scotland in our qualifying group meant we needed to adopt a flag to differentiate us. It'd be the first tournament (I believe) where the red cross on white background became prevalent as a face-painted symbol of support.
England fans and the union flag on 13:07 - May 25 by R17ALE
Been giving it some thought as it's very interesting the huge shift in flags in the 1990's.
Looking back, I think the shift is probably a hooligan related thing.
In the 80's, hooliganism was dubbed the English Disease. Not sure by who, but the tag stuck.
The media also went to great lengths to show the Scottish* and Irish fans in a good light, whilst blackening the English support. The Welsh didn't qualify for anything so they were omitted.
*A complete myth by the way. The Casual Scene was very prevalent in Scotland with the likes of Aberdeen leading the way.
Anyway, as tournaments came and went, European hooligan bragging rights were up for grabs, usually between the Germans, Dutch and British?
And, I think as British doesn't sound right, the England fans realised that the St. George was the only flag they wanted to fight for, the flag of the English Disease, a source of pride and fear if you were that way inclined back then, which sadly many were.
All of the above is only my opinion and might be bollox, but looking back, it does make sense.
Some good points here.
Remember the late 80s the time of heysel and Hillsborough the Tory government at the time decided to take on football. Just like mrs T took on the minors. It created lots of embarrassing headlines for the government, mrs T was not a women to be crossed. She declared war on footie. The ID cards, the government imposed European ban, hooliganism, luton v. Mill wall, england fans running a mock at euro 88 etc.......
The union Flag was to some extent the potent symbol of this, so it re invented itself as the flag of St George.
Another factor I'm sure was Euro 96 , remember the three lions song - 'the flag of st George are fluttering ' .
Plus the new shiny premier league and the footie boom needed a new national symbol not tarnished by the 80s.
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