| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? 09:35 - Sep 5 with 3791 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
https://www.gov.wales/heat-strategy-wales
This may sound like another policy discussion. but there are some significant costs to homeowners.
For example the ban on replacing any oil boiler from 2026, would mean for me in a property with some solid stone walls a bill of up to £30,000! Using the Government's own calculator:
Air Source Heat Pump £8,000 to £10,500
Thermal Storage £775 to £3,000
Radiator Change £1.875 to £3,375
Wall Insulation £9,000
Plumbing £3,000 to £5,000
Total £22,650 to £30,875
In addition the lead time for the conversion and insulation work would mean having no heating or hot water for over a year if my boiler broke down and needed replacing in 2026.
Eery householder needs to understand the consequences of what is proposed.
[Post edited 5 Sep 2023 9:36]
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| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 10:36 - Sep 5 with 3218 views | controversial_jack |
What about landlords who own many properties, they will have to pass these costs on to the tenants or sell up? |  | | |
| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 10:44 - Sep 5 with 3217 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 10:36 - Sep 5 by controversial_jack |
What about landlords who own many properties, they will have to pass these costs on to the tenants or sell up? |
If they have properties with oil boilers then the plan is to ban all replacement domestic oil boilers from 2026.
As you say, I guess pay or sell up will be the choice, I guess many landlords will sell up in advance of the ban to avoid hassle. | |
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| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 11:20 - Sep 5 with 3189 views | Luther27 |
| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 10:44 - Sep 5 by JACKMANANDBOY |
If they have properties with oil boilers then the plan is to ban all replacement domestic oil boilers from 2026.
As you say, I guess pay or sell up will be the choice, I guess many landlords will sell up in advance of the ban to avoid hassle. |
That’s happening now. No incentive to be a landlord these days. As the rental market decreases I wonder where all the tenants will go? | | | |
| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 11:52 - Sep 5 with 3172 views | Boundy |
Perhaps if they could capture all the hot air emanating from cardiff that would help heat a few hundred homes | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 12:36 - Sep 5 with 3146 views | fbreath |
How much will houses devalue if they have Oil heating in place and people cotton on to the cost to replace if they bought the house.
This is the first I had heard of it. Though my house doesn't have oil heating. |  |
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| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 12:41 - Sep 5 with 3145 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 12:36 - Sep 5 by fbreath |
How much will houses devalue if they have Oil heating in place and people cotton on to the cost to replace if they bought the house.
This is the first I had heard of it. Though my house doesn't have oil heating. |
Most people seem unaware, it's all in Welsh and UK Government proposals but you have to stitch the two up as not all of this is devolved.
Replacement oil boilers are proposed to be first in 2026 with gas boilers following in 2035. [Post edited 5 Sep 2023 13:34]
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| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 14:06 - Sep 5 with 3083 views | controversial_jack |
| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 11:20 - Sep 5 by Luther27 |
That’s happening now. No incentive to be a landlord these days. As the rental market decreases I wonder where all the tenants will go? |
I wouldn’t pay those prices for a system that probably won’t work for myself let alone tenants. I would have to sell up to the detriment of the young families i have renting | | | |
| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 15:58 - Sep 5 with 3058 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 14:06 - Sep 5 by controversial_jack |
I wouldn’t pay those prices for a system that probably won’t work for myself let alone tenants. I would have to sell up to the detriment of the young families i have renting |
Yes, I'm considering the selling up option as a homeowner, the cost and hassle would not be worth it. | |
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| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 16:33 - Sep 5 with 3031 views | SullutaCreturned |
The Senedd clearly think this is a good idea but have they thought of the financial implications for older people?
What if you are retired and cannot afford the 22k plus?
What if you inherit a house, cannot sell it because of the oil boiler but cannot afford the upgrade? | | | |
| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 16:44 - Sep 5 with 3025 views | controversial_jack |
| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 16:33 - Sep 5 by SullutaCreturned |
The Senedd clearly think this is a good idea but have they thought of the financial implications for older people?
What if you are retired and cannot afford the 22k plus?
What if you inherit a house, cannot sell it because of the oil boiler but cannot afford the upgrade? |
You would have to drop the asking price accordingly | | | |
| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 17:41 - Sep 5 with 3013 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 16:33 - Sep 5 by SullutaCreturned |
The Senedd clearly think this is a good idea but have they thought of the financial implications for older people?
What if you are retired and cannot afford the 22k plus?
What if you inherit a house, cannot sell it because of the oil boiler but cannot afford the upgrade? |
These plans are out for consultation right now, you can provide feedback via the link in the OP. | |
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| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 17:47 - Sep 5 with 3012 views | BarrySwan |
| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 16:33 - Sep 5 by SullutaCreturned |
The Senedd clearly think this is a good idea but have they thought of the financial implications for older people?
What if you are retired and cannot afford the 22k plus?
What if you inherit a house, cannot sell it because of the oil boiler but cannot afford the upgrade? |
What do you mean retired people?
Surely just about anyone working or not?
Most people would be up against it forking out £2,000 to £3,000 for a new gas boiler with an upgrade or two to heating controls never minds upwards of £15,000 +
What we're basically talking about is household after household going without essential amounts of hot water for sanitation plus heating because of the eco loons in charge.
All of whom are very well looked after themselves in meeting the heating system changing costs due to their excessive taxpayer funded wages after greasing their way up their own particular political party poles. | | | |
| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 18:35 - Sep 5 with 2995 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 16:33 - Sep 5 by SullutaCreturned |
The Senedd clearly think this is a good idea but have they thought of the financial implications for older people?
What if you are retired and cannot afford the 22k plus?
What if you inherit a house, cannot sell it because of the oil boiler but cannot afford the upgrade? |
The issue of selling a house does not appear clear in the England and Wales documention I've looked, there is a lot of it and I may have overlooked something.
In Scotland there is a proposal that you will not be able to sell a property without an EPC of C or above. which is crazy if you live in a flat for example, and the whole property is not up to standard. I can't remember the proposed date for the implementation of this sale condition in Scotland.
As I said all this stuff is out for consultation and can be responded to via the link in the OP. | |
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| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 22:09 - Sep 5 with 2931 views | majorraglan |
Its mental. I get the need to reduce emissions and make things energy efficient, but we need some common sense FFS.
I have a small semi rural cottage with 2ft thick stone walls which is heated with an oil condensing boiler and central heating. The place is rated F on the EPC scale and I’m in the process of refurbing it. I’ve had the place dry lined using insulated plasterboards, but because the rooms are on the small side Building Control are happy for me to use 37.5mm boards instead of the the much thicker boards used on new properties - if I’d have used them my rooms would be tiny. For an air source to work the house has to be extremely well insulated and mine and hundreds of thousands of others in Wales don’t make the grade. I can see a few posters have mentioned renting properties out, as of 2025 I’m pretty sure houses have to have an EPC at grade C failing that landlords have to demonstrate that they have spent £10k on improving the thermal aspect of the property which is one of the reasons many landlords with older properties are bailing out - and of course the rise in interest rates.
Electric heating could be an alternative if the prices were lower and the grid could cope. | | | |
| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 22:50 - Sep 5 with 2918 views | Luther27 |
I have spent over an hour responding to that survey. Don’t ever do that to me again….please. | | | |
| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 10:52 - Sep 6 with 2842 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 22:09 - Sep 5 by majorraglan |
Its mental. I get the need to reduce emissions and make things energy efficient, but we need some common sense FFS.
I have a small semi rural cottage with 2ft thick stone walls which is heated with an oil condensing boiler and central heating. The place is rated F on the EPC scale and I’m in the process of refurbing it. I’ve had the place dry lined using insulated plasterboards, but because the rooms are on the small side Building Control are happy for me to use 37.5mm boards instead of the the much thicker boards used on new properties - if I’d have used them my rooms would be tiny. For an air source to work the house has to be extremely well insulated and mine and hundreds of thousands of others in Wales don’t make the grade. I can see a few posters have mentioned renting properties out, as of 2025 I’m pretty sure houses have to have an EPC at grade C failing that landlords have to demonstrate that they have spent £10k on improving the thermal aspect of the property which is one of the reasons many landlords with older properties are bailing out - and of course the rise in interest rates.
Electric heating could be an alternative if the prices were lower and the grid could cope. |
Have you the facilty to consider a biomass stove. We had, in the past, a detached small stone cottage 2 up 2 down, that we used to heat with a 10KW Clearview stove.
The stove would slumber for about 10 hours, my wife worked part-time and we could keep the place warm throughout the winter just using the stove, we did not have the insulation you are putting in. | |
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| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 12:46 - Sep 6 with 2781 views | Pacemaker |
The ECO 4 Scheme covers the cost of converting from Oil or LPG it is publicised quite heavily, surely this will cover the majority of costs? |  |
| Life is an adventure or nothing at all. |
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| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 14:05 - Sep 6 with 2744 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 12:46 - Sep 6 by Pacemaker |
The ECO 4 Scheme covers the cost of converting from Oil or LPG it is publicised quite heavily, surely this will cover the majority of costs? |
There are lots of criteria and rules that keep changing. I'm not 100% on this but I think EPC Band D homes are excluded at present, the general income cut off point is £31,000 for those not on benefits, only non-condensing boilers can be upgraded, external insulation is not included.
Grants are targetted at the poorest and most vulnerable but there are limts e.g. the heat pump grant limit is £5,000 and Central Heating limit is £7,000 etc.
https://www.warmwales.org.uk/energy-company-obligation/eco-eligibility/ [Post edited 6 Sep 2023 14:16]
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| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 14:09 - Sep 6 with 2741 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 16:33 - Sep 5 by SullutaCreturned |
The Senedd clearly think this is a good idea but have they thought of the financial implications for older people?
What if you are retired and cannot afford the 22k plus?
What if you inherit a house, cannot sell it because of the oil boiler but cannot afford the upgrade? |
Not sure anyone would agree it is a good idea just because the Senedd thinks it is a good idea.
Other Senedd good ideas.
No investment in infrastructure
No M4 Relief road
Buying Cardiff Airport
Nationalisation of Tfw
Blanket 20 mph to increase air pollution.
Increasing the number of Senedd members by 50% | |
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| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 18:40 - Sep 20 with 2565 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
At last the UK Government has come clean about the cost to households. [Post edited 20 Sep 2023 18:41]
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| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 18:47 - Sep 20 with 2549 views | lifelong |
| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 18:40 - Sep 20 by JACKMANANDBOY |
At last the UK Government has come clean about the cost to households. [Post edited 20 Sep 2023 18:41]
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Just reported on the News that the 2026 has been extended to 2035. |  | | |
| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 18:49 - Sep 20 with 2545 views | Flashberryjack |
| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 18:40 - Sep 20 by JACKMANANDBOY |
At last the UK Government has come clean about the cost to households. [Post edited 20 Sep 2023 18:41]
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At least Rishi has the balls to stand against the doom and gloom merchants.
A triumph for common sense at last. |  |
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| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 18:51 - Sep 20 with 2545 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 18:47 - Sep 20 by lifelong |
Just reported on the News that the 2026 has been extended to 2035. |
The 2026 proposal was bonkers, whoever drafted that has no understanding of what they were proposing and should be moved on from their job.
They have also acknowledged that around 20 percent of houses are not suitable for heat pumps. | |
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| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 19:00 - Sep 20 with 2537 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 18:49 - Sep 20 by Flashberryjack |
At least Rishi has the balls to stand against the doom and gloom merchants.
A triumph for common sense at last. |
The Strategy was bollocks and was doomed to failure as we all don't have £10,000s spare. So nothing would have happened apart from those who could not afford to change in 2026 would have got very cold. Then there would have been a media pile on in respect of crap policy.
At least Sunak has seen the house of cards. | |
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| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 19:14 - Sep 20 with 2524 views | Luther27 |
| Heat Strategy for Wales - Will it cost you £30,000? on 19:00 - Sep 20 by JACKMANANDBOY |
The Strategy was bollocks and was doomed to failure as we all don't have £10,000s spare. So nothing would have happened apart from those who could not afford to change in 2026 would have got very cold. Then there would have been a media pile on in respect of crap policy.
At least Sunak has seen the house of cards. |
It sounds as though some advisor has hit him with a dose of reality when it comes to potential individual household cost. However just because deadlines have been extended regarding him heating systems etc, there’s nothing stopping anyone buying electric cars or converting to heat pumps. It’s not as though the choice has been taken away from us.
Regarding petrol/diesel vehicles we’ve just aligned the target date to that of the EU so I can’t understand why the car industry….notably Fords, who have a neck….is so up in arms. As I said above, the choice of purchase hasn’t been taken away from us. | | | |
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