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There's a lot of talk about change, a reset maybe, but are there any realistic scenarios in which we have a change of ownership and that doesn't just mean go straight to AFC QPR, do not pass go, do not collect £..... etc? I only wonder this because isn't one of the deep seated obstacles to QPR's progress that the borough doesn't like the owners? Also, what, at this stage are the owners getting out of this? It can't be fun can it?
‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’
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Realistic scenario for change... on 12:36 - Apr 9 with 1677 views
Realistic scenario for change... on 11:38 - Apr 9 by davman
...and that is exactly why Baz's Manage by Committee including the fans group cannot work. The fanbase is so diverse they don't know what they want other than for an owner to wade in and wave a magic wand and make it all better.
That path to redemption is unclear. We have some who will think that the club's gamble over the last couple of seasons was a good idea at the time and there will be those who might think that this is all about ensuring that there is a club for us to support at the end of all this, meaning that the wage bill needs to be cut to remove ALL dependencies from our owners even if that means yo-yo-ing between the Champ and L1 from now forward.
The Twitteratti is all for protest, but they can't even agree what is needed: "Don't go", "Throw a scarf on the pitch on the 82nd minute", "leave at HT", "Stand outside the ground and chant at the owners", "Les out", "Hoos Out", "Board Sell up" (to who I doubt they know or care). On Monday, WBA are protesting and I suspect a large portion of their fan base will get behind it. I do not trust our fanbase to do that; just like Brexit, you leave it up to the "Great British Public" and you'll end up will end up with a mess.
QPR 1st were he hope to try to pull the fans together, but they are all in the clubs pocket according to an ill educated, spiteful, loud minority on Twitter, so there is no hope they will be able to pull us together coherently.
Something does need to change, but I'm not holding my breath that the plan or solution comes from us fans...
Nobody mentioned a committee!
Inter group arguments always struck me as very niche among a group of dozens at most. The QPR electorate is at least 8,000 strong if you include ST holders only, and 100,000 if it includes membership too.
[Post edited 9 Apr 2023 12:53]
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Realistic scenario for change... on 14:39 - Apr 9 with 1598 views
Realistic scenario for change... on 10:21 - Apr 8 by Wegerles_Stairs
It depends who's elected. My suspicion is they'd have been happy clappers, so it wouldn't have made the slightest difference.
Only because the unhappy non-clappers (is that the opposite of Happy Clappers) are generally those that will whinge about anything and everything without raising a finger to address the issues. These are the ones who moan on line constantly, criticising each and every action the board / the club make and not pro-actively go out to make a change. Talk, talk, talk - "waaaaaaaah! Mummy, please make it better, it hurts" rather than "ouch, bastards, that hurt - I am going to do something about this".
...and in any case, if someone was brave enough to step forward, within seconds, they'd be badged up as "in the clubs pocket" and "taking backhanders" and "out for themselves not the rest of us good 'uns" by the Unhappy non-clappers who would love to continue to criticise offering nothing but more "waaaaaaaah; they're not very good are they? They screw up everything in their clown club", blah, blah, fckng blah...
This is painful; we are all hurting. I don't get off my arse for the club, because a) I don't know what I could do and b) as much as I love QPR, if it disappeared, I'd be heartbroken, but there are other things in my life that could fill the void and, at the moment, those other things might bring me more joy than I've had with this lot over the last twenty-five years or so...
Realistic scenario for change... on 10:52 - Apr 9 by GaryBannister86
I think it was Tracey Stent rather than Stacy Dent :-)
QPR1st. Nice lady.
Must say these fan-led groups are always tough work. For all the well-meaning, they do seem to cause increased in-fighting. As this message board proves, fans rarely agree with each other :-)
Ah yes Tracy...my bad ðŸ¤
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Realistic scenario for change... on 17:51 - Apr 9 with 1458 views
Realistic scenario for change... on 10:13 - Apr 8 by BazzaInTheLoft
The board could start by voluntarily bringing democratically elected people in to represent the fan base, but it’s not in their nature as business owners to do that because I suspect democracy is the enemy of entrepreneurship in their view.
It won’t guarantee success but at least we have some control over the levers of the club and creates an avenue for change if we want it. It would dampen anger too because the buck would stop with us as fans as well as the owners.
At the moment we are just passive onlookers.
The LSA and other supporter groups should start to organise and grow though. How many of us can say we are active members of a fan group despite QPR being one of the most previous elements of our lives?
We join Unions and Associations and even political parties to protect every other aspect of our lives. Why aren’t we doing the same with our football clubs like they do in Germany or even Scotland?
[Post edited 8 Apr 2023 10:19]
Problem with us is there are too many fan groups and too many egos to join as one
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Realistic scenario for change... on 18:25 - Apr 9 with 1426 views
Realistic scenario for change... on 18:17 - Apr 8 by BrianMcCarthy
That's always been my worry, that and their attempt to couple a new ground move with a huge property deal like Old Oak Common.
Worked out ok for arsenal funnilyenogh , debt free own most of the local land it’s the way to build a new ground , shame our w]owners decided not to go that route when land was Aval and went balls deep for car giant instead , blew that plan and we are left with zero option in the borough now
Realistic scenario for change... on 14:46 - Apr 9 by loftboy
We managed to unite in 1987.
Different scenario though, that was to stop a merger, problem now is we're crap so no matter what fans want to do what sort of protests you want to do it's hard to pinpoint an aim for them other than please don't be crap anymore
Some want Ferdinand out, some want Owners out, some want Hoos, some blame players some the manager (s), It's difficult to get behind any sort of fan movement at the moment
Realistic scenario for change... on 14:39 - Apr 9 by davman
Only because the unhappy non-clappers (is that the opposite of Happy Clappers) are generally those that will whinge about anything and everything without raising a finger to address the issues. These are the ones who moan on line constantly, criticising each and every action the board / the club make and not pro-actively go out to make a change. Talk, talk, talk - "waaaaaaaah! Mummy, please make it better, it hurts" rather than "ouch, bastards, that hurt - I am going to do something about this".
...and in any case, if someone was brave enough to step forward, within seconds, they'd be badged up as "in the clubs pocket" and "taking backhanders" and "out for themselves not the rest of us good 'uns" by the Unhappy non-clappers who would love to continue to criticise offering nothing but more "waaaaaaaah; they're not very good are they? They screw up everything in their clown club", blah, blah, fckng blah...
This is painful; we are all hurting. I don't get off my arse for the club, because a) I don't know what I could do and b) as much as I love QPR, if it disappeared, I'd be heartbroken, but there are other things in my life that could fill the void and, at the moment, those other things might bring me more joy than I've had with this lot over the last twenty-five years or so...
I suppose my point was that anyone critical of the club over the last few seasons has been drowned out by the more positive voices saying that the DoF and co. needed more time to sort things out and we're just about to get to where Brentford were at a similar point in their 'journey'.
Of course with everything falling apart over the last few months, the minority is now the majority. I just don't see how those Cassandras would have been given much of a hearing, whether they were on the Board or not.
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Realistic scenario for change... on 23:26 - Apr 9 with 1303 views
Realistic scenario for change... on 23:14 - Apr 9 by daveB
Different scenario though, that was to stop a merger, problem now is we're crap so no matter what fans want to do what sort of protests you want to do it's hard to pinpoint an aim for them other than please don't be crap anymore
Some want Ferdinand out, some want Owners out, some want Hoos, some blame players some the manager (s), It's difficult to get behind any sort of fan movement at the moment
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Realistic scenario for change... on 00:52 - Apr 10 with 1243 views
Realistic scenario for change... on 23:26 - Apr 9 by distortR
Regards fam based ownership, have a mate who is a a Pompey fan, and a highly successful accountant to boot and when this particular opportunity occurred at Portsmouth he did not invest and like others said, not enough dosh went in and decisions made were haphazard, due to lack of agreement ie fans all had own and different ways of choices.
In theory fan based ownership a great idea, in reality a ship that goes in all directions and is far from being s super yacht.
Do we have any multi billionaires with a great football and business brain on this forum if so please make yourself known.
Realistic scenario for change... on 00:52 - Apr 10 by numptydumpty
Regards fam based ownership, have a mate who is a a Pompey fan, and a highly successful accountant to boot and when this particular opportunity occurred at Portsmouth he did not invest and like others said, not enough dosh went in and decisions made were haphazard, due to lack of agreement ie fans all had own and different ways of choices.
In theory fan based ownership a great idea, in reality a ship that goes in all directions and is far from being s super yacht.
Do we have any multi billionaires with a great football and business brain on this forum if so please make yourself known.
We salute you !!!
[Post edited 10 Apr 2023 0:53]
I also have a Pompey season ticket holder friend who says the exact opposite. Say fan governance saved the clubs league status.
The fans took over, stabilised the club, and then presented an attractive club that investors eventually brought into.
Results and league positions back this up.
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Realistic scenario for change... on 01:05 - Apr 10 with 1235 views
As long as this club's sole reason to exist, is promotion to the premier league, and when there, cling to our place by our fingernails, we have less of a future with every passing season.
Personally, knowing there's virtually going to be no chance of an exciting cup run, a possible cup final, a dream cup win, and only the faint hope of promotion, the more likely event of a mediocre season, battle against relegation, is starting to wear me down greatly. And I have been watching Rangers since 72/73. These last 20 years have been, by and large, depressing.
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Realistic scenario for change... on 08:00 - Apr 10 with 1119 views
Realistic scenario for change... on 00:58 - Apr 10 by BazzaInTheLoft
I also have a Pompey season ticket holder friend who says the exact opposite. Say fan governance saved the clubs league status.
The fans took over, stabilised the club, and then presented an attractive club that investors eventually brought into.
Results and league positions back this up.
You must see the irony in this though, Baz? The point is that supporters can't agree and you illustrate this by a fundamental disagreement between our fans.
Take the "gamble" the club took since the Austin and Jojo perm signings. There would be those who'd be all for it - not our money, so let's go for it and those who would try to put the brakes on. How would a fan on the board have helped with that?
Realistic scenario for change... on 10:13 - Apr 8 by BazzaInTheLoft
The board could start by voluntarily bringing democratically elected people in to represent the fan base, but it’s not in their nature as business owners to do that because I suspect democracy is the enemy of entrepreneurship in their view.
It won’t guarantee success but at least we have some control over the levers of the club and creates an avenue for change if we want it. It would dampen anger too because the buck would stop with us as fans as well as the owners.
At the moment we are just passive onlookers.
The LSA and other supporter groups should start to organise and grow though. How many of us can say we are active members of a fan group despite QPR being one of the most previous elements of our lives?
We join Unions and Associations and even political parties to protect every other aspect of our lives. Why aren’t we doing the same with our football clubs like they do in Germany or even Scotland?
[Post edited 8 Apr 2023 10:19]
The reign of Palladini couldn't get them organised or together.
Too fractured, too many individual voices, no trust between them. The People's Front of Judea Judean People's Front
what makes you think they'll come together now?
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Realistic scenario for change... on 08:28 - Apr 10 with 1089 views
Realistic scenario for change... on 08:00 - Apr 10 by davman
You must see the irony in this though, Baz? The point is that supporters can't agree and you illustrate this by a fundamental disagreement between our fans.
Take the "gamble" the club took since the Austin and Jojo perm signings. There would be those who'd be all for it - not our money, so let's go for it and those who would try to put the brakes on. How would a fan on the board have helped with that?
So, to be clear, fan representation wouldn't stop bad decisions like 'the gamble'. It also wouldn't end disagreements amongst fans.
But neither does the current system.
What it does do, as mentioned above, is share the decision making and therefore the accountability as well as provide an avenue for change if a bad decision is made.
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Realistic scenario for change... on 08:36 - Apr 10 with 1072 views
Realistic scenario for change... on 08:28 - Apr 10 by swisscottage
The reign of Palladini couldn't get them organised or together.
Too fractured, too many individual voices, no trust between them. The People's Front of Judea Judean People's Front
what makes you think they'll come together now?
Like I say they don’t need to. A one member one vote system would bypass petty squabbles a tribalism. Differing groups would have to lobby on policy rather than attack each other and ultimately in the privacy of the ballot box people will vote however they want to vote.
Paliadini stoked the division deliberately. Our owners certainly can’t be accused of that can they.
[Post edited 10 Apr 2023 8:44]
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Realistic scenario for change... on 09:32 - Apr 10 with 997 views
Realistic scenario for change... on 08:28 - Apr 10 by BazzaInTheLoft
So, to be clear, fan representation wouldn't stop bad decisions like 'the gamble'. It also wouldn't end disagreements amongst fans.
But neither does the current system.
What it does do, as mentioned above, is share the decision making and therefore the accountability as well as provide an avenue for change if a bad decision is made.
Sounds like a positive change, I think it would help keep the board on it's toes having that accountability.
The main issue is the separate fans groups, we need them to unite and create a single entity that could then push for this change. Given the current state of the club it would be a good time to push for this change as they are going to be keen to be seen to be listening to our concerns.
The get out for the club is why a member of LSA and not QPR 1st etc, so first thing must be fan unity.
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Realistic scenario for change... on 09:38 - Apr 10 with 974 views
Realistic scenario for change... on 10:13 - Apr 8 by BazzaInTheLoft
The board could start by voluntarily bringing democratically elected people in to represent the fan base, but it’s not in their nature as business owners to do that because I suspect democracy is the enemy of entrepreneurship in their view.
It won’t guarantee success but at least we have some control over the levers of the club and creates an avenue for change if we want it. It would dampen anger too because the buck would stop with us as fans as well as the owners.
At the moment we are just passive onlookers.
The LSA and other supporter groups should start to organise and grow though. How many of us can say we are active members of a fan group despite QPR being one of the most previous elements of our lives?
We join Unions and Associations and even political parties to protect every other aspect of our lives. Why aren’t we doing the same with our football clubs like they do in Germany or even Scotland?
[Post edited 8 Apr 2023 10:19]
Starter for 10..
We have a wage bill bigger than the club. How would you manage that Baz?
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Realistic scenario for change... on 10:38 - Apr 10 with 912 views
I'd be all for fan ownership, but we have to recognise that no system is perfect.
Fan ownership would protect the club from property deals and property dealers, for instance, but we would still have to elect someone to run the club for us, and, well, that's what happened at Barcelona.
So then you'd try and design a system where the Chairperson elected would only have limited powers, and you'd make mistakes with that, and you'd learn and repeat the process. Far from perfect. But at least the club would be safe.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Realistic scenario for change... on 10:38 - Apr 10 by BrianMcCarthy
I'd be all for fan ownership, but we have to recognise that no system is perfect.
Fan ownership would protect the club from property deals and property dealers, for instance, but we would still have to elect someone to run the club for us, and, well, that's what happened at Barcelona.
So then you'd try and design a system where the Chairperson elected would only have limited powers, and you'd make mistakes with that, and you'd learn and repeat the process. Far from perfect. But at least the club would be safe.
So true. It isn’t perfect, especially in an environment where sugar daddies rule.
A full fan takeover is very unlikely to happen to us anyway unless there is a Pompey / Wimbledon / FC United type disaster.
I don’t buy the argument that because QPR1st and the LSA (who have a joint membership you could fit in a phonebox) didn’t get on twenty years ago that we shouldn’t push for a permanent seat at the table right now.
[Post edited 10 Apr 2023 11:11]
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Realistic scenario for change... on 12:19 - Apr 10 with 537 views
Realistic scenario for change... on 11:10 - Apr 10 by BazzaInTheLoft
So true. It isn’t perfect, especially in an environment where sugar daddies rule.
A full fan takeover is very unlikely to happen to us anyway unless there is a Pompey / Wimbledon / FC United type disaster.
I don’t buy the argument that because QPR1st and the LSA (who have a joint membership you could fit in a phonebox) didn’t get on twenty years ago that we shouldn’t push for a permanent seat at the table right now.
[Post edited 10 Apr 2023 11:11]
Agreed.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
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