| Watching Forest tonight 20:36 - Oct 10 with 4562 views | KeithHaynes |
I can see why their fans are frustrated, it’s similar in a lot of ways to when Cooper was at Swansea. The obvious passes being missed, frantic determination on the ball. Credit to then, god loves a trier. |  |
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| Watching Forest tonight on 12:05 - Oct 11 with 957 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Watching Forest tonight on 11:53 - Oct 11 by magicdaps10 |
I just wanted to clarify my post and my opinion.
I am not interested and have no time for the antagonising responses to try and belittle and create conflict.
The match was shocking and both managers are clearly in a bit of bother and you can understand why.........premier league survival is the holy grail, once there its all about staying there and doing what's needed to achieve that. |
“ I am not interested and have no time for the antagonising responses to try and belittle and create conflict. ”
Then why do you continue to do it so relentlessly?
If it’s too early to say Martin was in trouble after 8 games then you have to afford the same courtesy to the manager at another club with a better record.
Consistency. [Post edited 11 Oct 2022 12:06]
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| Watching Forest tonight on 12:21 - Oct 11 with 944 views | jack247 |
| Watching Forest tonight on 11:58 - Oct 11 by Dr_Parnassus |
Not at all, what we didn’t bring in was being alluded to as why we couldn’t push on in January. He wanted a striker (we didn’t have one) yet was given everything but that. It’s a very important difference.
As I’ve asked. Who has Martin been crying out for but not been given in order to play his initial ridiculous style? I can’t think of a single position and all the signings seemed to be filled by players he used to work with.
Cooper has proven his style is successful, he got promoted with it in one of the best Championship seasons of any club in the leagues history - there would be no need for a caveat. However if he was playing a ludicrous style for 3 years with zero success on the spin - then he went on a run of 6 games, I’m sure their fans would be praising him with trepidation, I’m sure you agree.
We are dipping into the fantasy here again when the obvious answer is slapping us in the face. No need for the mental gymnastics with it. |
We’re talking about this season.
Coopers style is patently not successful, they are a point off the bottom, picking up just over half a point per game. I don’t watch them much, but they looked insipid last night.
I’m asking how you’d react if he turned it around and started moving up the table from now.
As for Martin, putting his up until recently ridiculous style aside, from the time we lost Laird, he’s often had Joel Latibaudiere level with Piroe/Obafemi, with Manning on the other side. You can’t seriously think he’s more suited to that role than Andre Ayew (or Viktor Gyokores) is as a striker. |  | | |
| Watching Forest tonight on 12:29 - Oct 11 with 922 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Watching Forest tonight on 12:21 - Oct 11 by jack247 |
We’re talking about this season.
Coopers style is patently not successful, they are a point off the bottom, picking up just over half a point per game. I don’t watch them much, but they looked insipid last night.
I’m asking how you’d react if he turned it around and started moving up the table from now.
As for Martin, putting his up until recently ridiculous style aside, from the time we lost Laird, he’s often had Joel Latibaudiere level with Piroe/Obafemi, with Manning on the other side. You can’t seriously think he’s more suited to that role than Andre Ayew (or Viktor Gyokores) is as a striker. |
You believe that’s down to the style of play? I disagree, I think it’s down to the influx of players brought in.
There would be no need for a reaction if he changed his style of play as I said. His style has been proven successful, he’s never had a single season outside the top 6 playing his way. If he changed it again then good luck to him, he’s earned the right to have faith in his old or new style.
But that’s a world away from playing a certain style for 3 and a half years with zero success and then reluctantly changing it and expecting everyone to be sold on it after a handful of games despite a history of going back after a few wins and absolute silence on it.
I think it’s pretty dishonest to try and conflate the two and pretend they are anything alike.
Why would you put his ridiculous style aside? That’s what we are discussing. You said maybe he didn’t have the players he wanted to play his style
He had Laird, Christie, Downes, Allen, Piroe, Naughton, Oba, Grimes, Pato, Fisher, Ntcham et al. Many/most of which were his signings brought in to play exactly that way - who was stopping that ludicrous style from being an excellent one then? | |
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| Watching Forest tonight on 12:55 - Oct 11 with 906 views | jack247 |
| Watching Forest tonight on 12:29 - Oct 11 by Dr_Parnassus |
You believe that’s down to the style of play? I disagree, I think it’s down to the influx of players brought in.
There would be no need for a reaction if he changed his style of play as I said. His style has been proven successful, he’s never had a single season outside the top 6 playing his way. If he changed it again then good luck to him, he’s earned the right to have faith in his old or new style.
But that’s a world away from playing a certain style for 3 and a half years with zero success and then reluctantly changing it and expecting everyone to be sold on it after a handful of games despite a history of going back after a few wins and absolute silence on it.
I think it’s pretty dishonest to try and conflate the two and pretend they are anything alike.
Why would you put his ridiculous style aside? That’s what we are discussing. You said maybe he didn’t have the players he wanted to play his style
He had Laird, Christie, Downes, Allen, Piroe, Naughton, Oba, Grimes, Pato, Fisher, Ntcham et al. Many/most of which were his signings brought in to play exactly that way - who was stopping that ludicrous style from being an excellent one then? |
So what’s stopping him playing the bulk of last seasons team and sprinkling it with a bit of stardust as most promoted teams have to?
They sold their keeper (loaned in Henderson) and a striker who never played. I think the vast majority of the promotion team are still there.
We aren’t discussing Martins ridiculous style (which we agree is ridiculous and haven’t played for 6 weeks or so), we’re discussing why not having a striker (which is debatable given Ayews goal return albeit not in his best position and Gyokores improvement soon after he left) is an excuse and not having a wingback in a system that desperately needs wingbacks isn’t.
I’m not defending Martin or criticising Cooper, I’m just questioning the double standards. | | | |
| Watching Forest tonight on 13:12 - Oct 11 with 879 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Watching Forest tonight on 12:55 - Oct 11 by jack247 |
So what’s stopping him playing the bulk of last seasons team and sprinkling it with a bit of stardust as most promoted teams have to?
They sold their keeper (loaned in Henderson) and a striker who never played. I think the vast majority of the promotion team are still there.
We aren’t discussing Martins ridiculous style (which we agree is ridiculous and haven’t played for 6 weeks or so), we’re discussing why not having a striker (which is debatable given Ayews goal return albeit not in his best position and Gyokores improvement soon after he left) is an excuse and not having a wingback in a system that desperately needs wingbacks isn’t.
I’m not defending Martin or criticising Cooper, I’m just questioning the double standards. |
The 25 players brought in I would have thought. 
That team wasn’t good enough, make no mistake about it. But there is a way to get signings in, by drip feeding them in. Cooper hasn’t had the chance to do that, they signed a new squad and it’s his job to keep them all happy meaning he has to play them all, or as best he can.
Come on now, we both know the score with Forest, there is no point in pretending otherwise.
As for Martin, Laird is a wingback as is Christie, they didn’t do much to improve the style. It was flawed in its entirety and needed more than a wingback to make it work.
Not having a striker in January (Ayew isn’t a striker irrespective of his goal return) was to help an already working style, again the two aren’t remotely similar.
One signing to kick on an already successful style, being compared to one signing to transform a completely failed and incoherent one.
Not even in the same realm.
I don’t see where you are seeing any double standard. Point it out specifically as you have lost me with that one. [Post edited 11 Oct 2022 13:26]
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| Watching Forest tonight on 13:18 - Oct 11 with 876 views | Dr_Parnassus |
But to confirm, what is it you disagree with me about now.
It seems like we are going round in circles with none of the original points being touched upon.
My points are:-
1. This freak influx of players is detrimental to a side and many of which clearly wouldn’t be at the request of Cooper who would have signed the contract immediately if he was happy with the situation (not to mention playing them all). His history suggests this is not his doing, there is no way he would be asking for 25 players + to handle.
2. Due to the awful style of play for so long under Martin and reluctance to change, there is understandable trepidation with fully believing we have finally changed philosophy due to a history of changing back to the ludicrous. Praise but with trepidation therefore is understandable until he either confirms this is the way forward or enough repetition earns trust naturally.
3. Martin did not intend to change to this style all along as his signings, words and history show.
I genuinely don’t see how anyone can disagree with any of the above. | |
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| Watching Forest tonight on 13:38 - Oct 11 with 869 views | jack247 |
| Watching Forest tonight on 13:18 - Oct 11 by Dr_Parnassus |
But to confirm, what is it you disagree with me about now.
It seems like we are going round in circles with none of the original points being touched upon.
My points are:-
1. This freak influx of players is detrimental to a side and many of which clearly wouldn’t be at the request of Cooper who would have signed the contract immediately if he was happy with the situation (not to mention playing them all). His history suggests this is not his doing, there is no way he would be asking for 25 players + to handle.
2. Due to the awful style of play for so long under Martin and reluctance to change, there is understandable trepidation with fully believing we have finally changed philosophy due to a history of changing back to the ludicrous. Praise but with trepidation therefore is understandable until he either confirms this is the way forward or enough repetition earns trust naturally.
3. Martin did not intend to change to this style all along as his signings, words and history show.
I genuinely don’t see how anyone can disagree with any of the above. |
My original point was, if Cooper does something badly, you’ll have an excuse. If Martin does something well, it will be ‘yeah, well done, but….’
It doesn’t matter what lengths you go to justify it, it’s fairly apparent to the majority on here.
It’s not a conversation about who is the better manager, we agree it’s Cooper.
I can’t really recall us changing style much last season. We swapped between back 5 and 4, but the style was broadly the same. We dropped Piroe deeper to accommodate Obafemi, but that lasted half the season. Yes, there were little quirks like the 1-2 around the striker, but we played broadly the same way and just had little purple patches.where it was more successful than normal.
This time, we have less pointless possession, don’t pass it around in dangerous areas as much, transition forward quicker and look a lot more solid defensively. That’s not the same as tinkering with the same style for a season.
Edit
I don’t disagree with your third point. I think the way we played last season would have been his preference. I think he’s been too beligerent with it but has finally made it less extreme and more pragmatic. [Post edited 11 Oct 2022 13:44]
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| Watching Forest tonight on 14:02 - Oct 11 with 853 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Watching Forest tonight on 13:38 - Oct 11 by jack247 |
My original point was, if Cooper does something badly, you’ll have an excuse. If Martin does something well, it will be ‘yeah, well done, but….’
It doesn’t matter what lengths you go to justify it, it’s fairly apparent to the majority on here.
It’s not a conversation about who is the better manager, we agree it’s Cooper.
I can’t really recall us changing style much last season. We swapped between back 5 and 4, but the style was broadly the same. We dropped Piroe deeper to accommodate Obafemi, but that lasted half the season. Yes, there were little quirks like the 1-2 around the striker, but we played broadly the same way and just had little purple patches.where it was more successful than normal.
This time, we have less pointless possession, don’t pass it around in dangerous areas as much, transition forward quicker and look a lot more solid defensively. That’s not the same as tinkering with the same style for a season.
Edit
I don’t disagree with your third point. I think the way we played last season would have been his preference. I think he’s been too beligerent with it but has finally made it less extreme and more pragmatic. [Post edited 11 Oct 2022 13:44]
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It’s not “an excuse” though, is it?
It’s reality.
To think the opposite, or to accuse me of bias (which you appear to be doing) you would have to be of the opinion that bringing 25+ players in a single summer has no detrimental impact on the team - even though it’s pretty obvious it’s not ideal.
And you would also have to be of the opinion that we haven’t been bad for the last 14 months, and any trepidation in recent praise is not justified… even though it obviously is.
So there is no “lengths” to justify anything. This is literally the reality of the situations. I’m pretty sure you don’t disagree with the above so it’s weird that you allude to it being something I’m creating as opposed to it literally being the facts of the matter.
We changed the style twice last season and each time we went on a run, possession down, pass number down and long balls up - I stated it many times and was discussed on here at length. I believe we had the exact conversation where once I brought the heat maps and the match data up you conceded that we did.
Then once we got clear with some decent wins, we would go back to the 75% possession “don’t understand how we lost coz we dominated” stuff. It was tiresome.
But alas, you have to decide now whether you disagree with the obvious points above, or recognise you may be being a little argumentative by suggesting the above is unfair rather than the obvious reality. | |
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| Watching Forest tonight on 14:40 - Oct 11 with 823 views | jack247 |
| Watching Forest tonight on 14:02 - Oct 11 by Dr_Parnassus |
It’s not “an excuse” though, is it?
It’s reality.
To think the opposite, or to accuse me of bias (which you appear to be doing) you would have to be of the opinion that bringing 25+ players in a single summer has no detrimental impact on the team - even though it’s pretty obvious it’s not ideal.
And you would also have to be of the opinion that we haven’t been bad for the last 14 months, and any trepidation in recent praise is not justified… even though it obviously is.
So there is no “lengths” to justify anything. This is literally the reality of the situations. I’m pretty sure you don’t disagree with the above so it’s weird that you allude to it being something I’m creating as opposed to it literally being the facts of the matter.
We changed the style twice last season and each time we went on a run, possession down, pass number down and long balls up - I stated it many times and was discussed on here at length. I believe we had the exact conversation where once I brought the heat maps and the match data up you conceded that we did.
Then once we got clear with some decent wins, we would go back to the 75% possession “don’t understand how we lost coz we dominated” stuff. It was tiresome.
But alas, you have to decide now whether you disagree with the obvious points above, or recognise you may be being a little argumentative by suggesting the above is unfair rather than the obvious reality. |
Come on, are you saying you aren’t biased towards Cooper?
As soon as I saw a thread on Forest I knew you’d be on it defending him. It will be the same if he gets sacked or they get relegated.
We certainly didn’t have anything like as significant a change in style last season, nor did we see such a dramatic upturn in results.
I can understand the scepticism, I just find it a bit defeatist. I’d rather think that Martin has learned from the mental football we’ve been playing, has found a happy medium between being a footballing side and pragmatism and won’t revert to suicidal defending. If he does, I’ll be criticising as much as anyone. | | | |
| Watching Forest tonight on 14:47 - Oct 11 with 808 views | STID2017 |
| Watching Forest tonight on 13:38 - Oct 11 by jack247 |
My original point was, if Cooper does something badly, you’ll have an excuse. If Martin does something well, it will be ‘yeah, well done, but….’
It doesn’t matter what lengths you go to justify it, it’s fairly apparent to the majority on here.
It’s not a conversation about who is the better manager, we agree it’s Cooper.
I can’t really recall us changing style much last season. We swapped between back 5 and 4, but the style was broadly the same. We dropped Piroe deeper to accommodate Obafemi, but that lasted half the season. Yes, there were little quirks like the 1-2 around the striker, but we played broadly the same way and just had little purple patches.where it was more successful than normal.
This time, we have less pointless possession, don’t pass it around in dangerous areas as much, transition forward quicker and look a lot more solid defensively. That’s not the same as tinkering with the same style for a season.
Edit
I don’t disagree with your third point. I think the way we played last season would have been his preference. I think he’s been too beligerent with it but has finally made it less extreme and more pragmatic. [Post edited 11 Oct 2022 13:44]
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Dr P is saying in essence
Point 1 - No matter what Cooper does he is not to blame if it goes wrong and deserves all the praise if it goes right.
Point 2 - No matter what Martin does he is to blame if it goes wrong but deserves no praise if it goes right.
Point 3 - See point 2
No winning with him.
Not sure why he is so Pro Cooper and NGFC and Anti Martin and SCFC. ? |  |
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| Watching Forest tonight on 17:17 - Oct 11 with 754 views | pencoedjack |
| Watching Forest tonight on 14:47 - Oct 11 by STID2017 |
Dr P is saying in essence
Point 1 - No matter what Cooper does he is not to blame if it goes wrong and deserves all the praise if it goes right.
Point 2 - No matter what Martin does he is to blame if it goes wrong but deserves no praise if it goes right.
Point 3 - See point 2
No winning with him.
Not sure why he is so Pro Cooper and NGFC and Anti Martin and SCFC. ? |
Best ignored fella. |  | | |
| Watching Forest tonight on 17:26 - Oct 11 with 737 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
It is a myth that Cooper had no centre forward. He was given a raw young striker called Goykeres who has matched Piroe for goal scoring most of last season. Cooper failed to develop him. Most teams get nothing in January. Cooper got two USA international and Hourahaine. "Two US crocks" they are called. Gibbs White was english and just "unlucky"
He now has no striker again apparently. Anwomi £15m plus goalscorers Lingaard and Gibbs White. He has spent a staggering £145m and has no striker? He moved on Kienan Davis and Grabban himself.
It seems for some he is always hard done by, |  |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Watching Forest tonight on 21:20 - Oct 11 with 654 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Watching Forest tonight on 14:40 - Oct 11 by jack247 |
Come on, are you saying you aren’t biased towards Cooper?
As soon as I saw a thread on Forest I knew you’d be on it defending him. It will be the same if he gets sacked or they get relegated.
We certainly didn’t have anything like as significant a change in style last season, nor did we see such a dramatic upturn in results.
I can understand the scepticism, I just find it a bit defeatist. I’d rather think that Martin has learned from the mental football we’ve been playing, has found a happy medium between being a footballing side and pragmatism and won’t revert to suicidal defending. If he does, I’ll be criticising as much as anyone. |
Yep, not biased in the slightest. Surely you can say “as soon as I saw a thread on Cooper I knew the same usernames would be jibing away at him” - right?
So It’s more a case that others have a vendetta against Cooper where as I am happy to stand up for common sense.
Again we are here pretending that bringing in 25 players has no effect. Where as I am being accused of bias simply for making the obvious point that it does - quite ridiculous when it’s put like that isn’t it.
We certainly did change the style last year possession down to the low 50’s, pass count into the 400’s long balls into the double figure range, exactly what we are seeing today. I spoke about it at length last season including accompanying data to demonstrate it.
You have to also realise praise with trepidation is not criticism. Not sure why you are so offended by it, it’s completely natural. [Post edited 11 Oct 2022 22:07]
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| Watching Forest tonight on 21:26 - Oct 11 with 640 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Watching Forest tonight on 14:47 - Oct 11 by STID2017 |
Dr P is saying in essence
Point 1 - No matter what Cooper does he is not to blame if it goes wrong and deserves all the praise if it goes right.
Point 2 - No matter what Martin does he is to blame if it goes wrong but deserves no praise if it goes right.
Point 3 - See point 2
No winning with him.
Not sure why he is so Pro Cooper and NGFC and Anti Martin and SCFC. ? |
Probably best you ask me what I am saying if you didn’t understand.
To clarify:
1. Cooper certainly is hampered at the moment, ludicrous to say otherwise. No other club in history in the U.K. has brought in so many players, British record. To pretend that normal is just plan silly. That won’t excuse him forever of course, but will certainly put a caveat on things until after the WC break probably. It’s a brand new team.
2. Where have I refused to praise Martin? Don’t I praise him with every win? Feel free to point out when this hasn’t been the case. Otherwise we can put that down to another falsehood.
3. See point 2.
I’m pro common sense and fairness. Simply that.
I say it as it is and will never shy away from it.
(Mods have deleted me saying that people continue to lie about me… yet let the lies stand?) [Post edited 12 Oct 2022 7:17]
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| Watching Forest tonight on 21:35 - Oct 11 with 619 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Watching Forest tonight on 17:26 - Oct 11 by ReslovenSwan1 |
It is a myth that Cooper had no centre forward. He was given a raw young striker called Goykeres who has matched Piroe for goal scoring most of last season. Cooper failed to develop him. Most teams get nothing in January. Cooper got two USA international and Hourahaine. "Two US crocks" they are called. Gibbs White was english and just "unlucky"
He now has no striker again apparently. Anwomi £15m plus goalscorers Lingaard and Gibbs White. He has spent a staggering £145m and has no striker? He moved on Kienan Davis and Grabban himself.
It seems for some he is always hard done by, |
Not a myth, Gyokeres was rubbish, you said so yourself that season. What he turned into means nothing, he wasn’t that at the time.
He left us and went to Coventry and they thought the same, he barely started a game for them.
Gibbs White was unlucky, he had no history of significant injury and had prepared well and sensibly with regards to season/off season. Jordan Morris had just come back from an ACL injury and thrown straight into off season loan with us, Arriola had just finished a full season and then thrown into an off season loan - not remotely similar as Gibbs White.
Nobody has said he doesn’t have a striker, they said he doesn’t have a goal scorer. How much he cost is irrelevant, if that was the case then we should have kept Borja Baston - we didn’t because he was rubbish.
Do you think Awoniyi (you would have spelled it right if he was English) is Premier League ready then? Based on what? He’s had one decent season in his career and approaching his latter years in his 20’s. He’s okay, but he won’t be transforming any side.
As for the money spent, I’m sure Cooper agrees with you. Just like he would agree with me that what he was given with regards to the American crocks was a waste. | |
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| Watching Forest tonight on 00:05 - Oct 12 with 530 views | STID2017 |
| Watching Forest tonight on 21:35 - Oct 11 by Dr_Parnassus |
Not a myth, Gyokeres was rubbish, you said so yourself that season. What he turned into means nothing, he wasn’t that at the time.
He left us and went to Coventry and they thought the same, he barely started a game for them.
Gibbs White was unlucky, he had no history of significant injury and had prepared well and sensibly with regards to season/off season. Jordan Morris had just come back from an ACL injury and thrown straight into off season loan with us, Arriola had just finished a full season and then thrown into an off season loan - not remotely similar as Gibbs White.
Nobody has said he doesn’t have a striker, they said he doesn’t have a goal scorer. How much he cost is irrelevant, if that was the case then we should have kept Borja Baston - we didn’t because he was rubbish.
Do you think Awoniyi (you would have spelled it right if he was English) is Premier League ready then? Based on what? He’s had one decent season in his career and approaching his latter years in his 20’s. He’s okay, but he won’t be transforming any side.
As for the money spent, I’m sure Cooper agrees with you. Just like he would agree with me that what he was given with regards to the American crocks was a waste. |
As you corrected Resloven on his spelling of Awoniyi, just like to point out that the English footballer Morgan Gibbs-White has a hyphen in his name.
People in glass houses, etc [Post edited 12 Oct 2022 0:27]
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| Watching Forest tonight on 04:25 - Oct 12 with 516 views | jack247 |
| Watching Forest tonight on 21:20 - Oct 11 by Dr_Parnassus |
Yep, not biased in the slightest. Surely you can say “as soon as I saw a thread on Cooper I knew the same usernames would be jibing away at him” - right?
So It’s more a case that others have a vendetta against Cooper where as I am happy to stand up for common sense.
Again we are here pretending that bringing in 25 players has no effect. Where as I am being accused of bias simply for making the obvious point that it does - quite ridiculous when it’s put like that isn’t it.
We certainly did change the style last year possession down to the low 50’s, pass count into the 400’s long balls into the double figure range, exactly what we are seeing today. I spoke about it at length last season including accompanying data to demonstrate it.
You have to also realise praise with trepidation is not criticism. Not sure why you are so offended by it, it’s completely natural. [Post edited 11 Oct 2022 22:07]
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There’s absolutely no doubt that some people are equally as biased against Cooper.
I’m not offended by praise with trepidation, I just said I found it defeatist. It’s also a way of covering your bases so you can say you were right in either eventuality. | | | |
| Watching Forest tonight on 07:14 - Oct 12 with 480 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Watching Forest tonight on 00:05 - Oct 12 by STID2017 |
As you corrected Resloven on his spelling of Awoniyi, just like to point out that the English footballer Morgan Gibbs-White has a hyphen in his name.
People in glass houses, etc [Post edited 12 Oct 2022 0:27]
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I was responding to his silly accusation that my view that the Americans were injured were due to their nationality and if they were English then I wouldn’t have described them as such.
Whether you would like me to hyphenate his name or not is irrelevant. I can only assume this is yet again the latest in a long line of points you simply cannot understand. | |
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| Watching Forest tonight on 07:16 - Oct 12 with 478 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Watching Forest tonight on 04:25 - Oct 12 by jack247 |
There’s absolutely no doubt that some people are equally as biased against Cooper.
I’m not offended by praise with trepidation, I just said I found it defeatist. It’s also a way of covering your bases so you can say you were right in either eventuality. |
Equally?
Again, in order to describe me as biased then you would have to disagree with my view that an influx of 25 players is harmful to continuity.
Otherwise it’s not biased at all and simply a sensible comment - is it not? | |
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| Watching Forest tonight on 07:36 - Oct 12 with 459 views | jack247 |
| Watching Forest tonight on 07:16 - Oct 12 by Dr_Parnassus |
Equally?
Again, in order to describe me as biased then you would have to disagree with my view that an influx of 25 players is harmful to continuity.
Otherwise it’s not biased at all and simply a sensible comment - is it not? |
Yes equally.
Every time there is a thread about Cooper or Forest, I could write a list of names who would be slagging him off and who would be his apologists before clicking on it. There are more detractors than apologists and those people are biased as well in my opinion.
I’m not disputing that an influx of 25 players is disruptive. At the same time, non one can dispute he has virtually his entire promotion winning first team, as well as the likes of Gibbs-White, Lindgard and Awoniyi to choose from. He could easily have gone for continuity on match days and phased players in gradually if he wanted to. | | | |
| Watching Forest tonight on 08:00 - Oct 12 with 448 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Watching Forest tonight on 07:36 - Oct 12 by jack247 |
Yes equally.
Every time there is a thread about Cooper or Forest, I could write a list of names who would be slagging him off and who would be his apologists before clicking on it. There are more detractors than apologists and those people are biased as well in my opinion.
I’m not disputing that an influx of 25 players is disruptive. At the same time, non one can dispute he has virtually his entire promotion winning first team, as well as the likes of Gibbs-White, Lindgard and Awoniyi to choose from. He could easily have gone for continuity on match days and phased players in gradually if he wanted to. |
Absolutely, but defending him in line with common sense isn’t biased is it. You are claiming bias but then describing anything but bias.
In order to prove bias you would have to disagree with the points I’m raising, because they would be superfluous designed to subvert reality.
What you are describing is a bias against Cooper (pretending the influx has done nothing) and the same people defending him, that has no relevance to bias. It’s a pattern maybe, but certainly does not prove any bias simply by who takes on standing up for common sense.
If you agree with the point I’m making then how is it biased? Having the old team there is irrelevant, he’s been given 25 players he is tasked with keeping happy. We would be treading down the road of fantasy again if you are genuinely suggesting he should put them all in the reserves.
It appears you are just being argumentative now.
If I say the earth is flat and you keep telling me it isn’t, are you biased towards spheres? Or just a fan of common sense? | |
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| Watching Forest tonight on 08:23 - Oct 12 with 421 views | jack247 |
| Watching Forest tonight on 08:00 - Oct 12 by Dr_Parnassus |
Absolutely, but defending him in line with common sense isn’t biased is it. You are claiming bias but then describing anything but bias.
In order to prove bias you would have to disagree with the points I’m raising, because they would be superfluous designed to subvert reality.
What you are describing is a bias against Cooper (pretending the influx has done nothing) and the same people defending him, that has no relevance to bias. It’s a pattern maybe, but certainly does not prove any bias simply by who takes on standing up for common sense.
If you agree with the point I’m making then how is it biased? Having the old team there is irrelevant, he’s been given 25 players he is tasked with keeping happy. We would be treading down the road of fantasy again if you are genuinely suggesting he should put them all in the reserves.
It appears you are just being argumentative now.
If I say the earth is flat and you keep telling me it isn’t, are you biased towards spheres? Or just a fan of common sense? |
The earth being round is not subjective.
If I was making excuses for every sloppy goal we conceded due to unnecessarily risky passes in our own penalty area, then I’d be a biased Martin apologist. That’s a more apt analogy.
As I’ve said, if he gets sacked, or they finish bottom, you will be on here explaining how it wasn’t his fault and plenty of people will be hammering him without admitting he had a tough job on his hands. It predictable.
If they’d only spent £25m on two players and brought in a couple of frees in like Bournemouth have, I’m sure we’d have been hearing he hasn’t been backed enough. | | | |
| Watching Forest tonight on 08:25 - Oct 12 with 415 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Watching Forest tonight on 08:23 - Oct 12 by jack247 |
The earth being round is not subjective.
If I was making excuses for every sloppy goal we conceded due to unnecessarily risky passes in our own penalty area, then I’d be a biased Martin apologist. That’s a more apt analogy.
As I’ve said, if he gets sacked, or they finish bottom, you will be on here explaining how it wasn’t his fault and plenty of people will be hammering him without admitting he had a tough job on his hands. It predictable.
If they’d only spent £25m on two players and brought in a couple of frees in like Bournemouth have, I’m sure we’d have been hearing he hasn’t been backed enough. |
Neither is an influx of 25 players being a freak pre season and being incredibly unlikely a side will hit the ground running.
It’s not an excuse, it’s fact. A fact you seemingly agree with too, no idea what you are whinging about. | |
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| Watching Forest tonight on 08:35 - Oct 12 with 401 views | jack247 |
| Watching Forest tonight on 08:25 - Oct 12 by Dr_Parnassus |
Neither is an influx of 25 players being a freak pre season and being incredibly unlikely a side will hit the ground running.
It’s not an excuse, it’s fact. A fact you seemingly agree with too, no idea what you are whinging about. |
No idea why you think I’m whinging, bring argumentative or getting annoyed to be honest.
I’m just pointing out that whatever happens with Cooper, you’ll be on here fighting his corner, I’m also pointing out there are plenty who won’t see any good he does. | | | |
| Watching Forest tonight on 08:40 - Oct 12 with 399 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Watching Forest tonight on 08:35 - Oct 12 by jack247 |
No idea why you think I’m whinging, bring argumentative or getting annoyed to be honest.
I’m just pointing out that whatever happens with Cooper, you’ll be on here fighting his corner, I’m also pointing out there are plenty who won’t see any good he does. |
Because you are stating I am biased, by giving a common sense view you also agree with.
Again you stating I stand up for him doesn’t equate to bias. You would have to show me how my view is superfluous, something you haven’t even attempted to do (because it isn’t).
But you do have history of bias against Cooper so I understand why you are taking this view. I remember you pretending he was touting himself out to clubs, then you eventually had to back down after being asked for examples, you also used to make claims of “bottling”, “failing” and a whole load of stuff.
If I remember rightly it was you being called out for your anti Cooper stances that led you to leaving the site for a while. Right? | |
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