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Never have I felt so little emotion from a late equaliser.
Passing accuracy was abysmal. Far too many passengers in the team. Dorsett is awful, he has no awareness and can’t pass for toffee. Midfield was non existent. The tactic of Morley passing it to Kelly and trying to attack down the left side failed time after time. Substitutions were bizarre and it was completely predictable that we would wait for them to score. Stockdale may as well not be there on the touch line, he offers nothing. Officials were poor. Bottled 2 red cards and some of the yellow cards made no sense.
Unfortunately I agree. Haven't seen many games this season but watched today and couldn't believe how poor we were. I've always enjoyed us trying to get the ball down and play football- I felt today we looked like a pub team at times with our heads down and hoofing it up. For all the criticisms of previous managers I cant remember such a deliberate lack of attempting to play football for a long time.
I'm not sure if it's a lack of confidence or ability but our two wide CBs are nowhere near good enough defensively or in possession. We have to go 4 at the back, get someone in midfield and try to actually dictate the game.
Will be interesting to hear Stockdale's views on the game.
Stockdale promised us exciting football. He is being found out now, that is a lie. I too felt little emotion as we equalised and that is not like me at all.
Stockdale needs to change his tactics...let's begin by starting Beasley and Andrews working together upfront on Tuesday. Using one lone striker doesn't work and therefore it's not exciting football. Perhaps Stockdale can win me over again but that means he must change what he is doing.
Regardless of if we'd battered them all over the park but been behind to a jammy goal, been battered and sat deservedly a goal behind, or at equal levels with the opposition and one nil down, I can't see how a last minute equaliser would ever evoke anything other than relief / pleasure / mayhem in equal measure.
Sure, in the post match analysis assess the game as an overall performance etc - but from where I was sat today there was nobody in the home ends who looked to be feeling 'so little emotion'.
It’s like it’s Barrow’s third season around here at times. Some realism please, we are no longer a team full of talented players who could justifiably look at the top end of League 1. Yes, we’ve some players performing poorly and the manager can improve too, something he’d agree with, however reactions are extreme again.
Keith Hill would often mention expectations, far too often in fact, but it’s a valid point now.
It’s like it’s Barrow’s third season around here at times. Some realism please, we are no longer a team full of talented players who could justifiably look at the top end of League 1. Yes, we’ve some players performing poorly and the manager can improve too, something he’d agree with, however reactions are extreme again.
Keith Hill would often mention expectations, far too often in fact, but it’s a valid point now.
I would also add to that that the manager himself has said that he didn't think we played well today and that he has told the players that. Contrast that with all the times we were "brilliant" last season.
RS will know some of his summer recruits aren't doing what he hoped. He will know he isn't currently delivering what he vowed to, primarily at home. I'm sure there is a link between those two things.
Yes, the lack of subs on Sunday was strange; like-for-like subs today was strange; keeping the shape the same when Graham went off was strange. Coleman starting to pass two-yards to O'Connell is strange.
But at least we kept going, forced a very late corner and equalised from it, something we have bemoaned so often when it goes against us.
Orient probably deserved to win and it was definitely a point gained for us.
There's plenty of room for improvement in all areas and with a January transfer window to come, I'm sure everyone will be trying their hardest to make that happen.
When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf?
I’m beginning to lose patience with RS. I understand how difficult he’s had it through the summer, how tough it must have been with recruitment etc etc.
The fact he persists with this formation and Dorsett & Graham is now unforgivable.
It is absolutely horrific to watch, week in week out & I honestly feel more disillusioned now than at any point under Eyre, Barrow, Buckley etc.
What on earth is he watching to keep turning these players and formation out?
He has absolutely no bottle as a manager, we turn up to every home game playing 5 at the back hoping we don’t get beat, yet concede goals for fun and do nothing about it.
This isn’t what he promised us in the summer & this certainly wasn’t what I bought my season card for.
I can handle poor players who lack ability and try hard, that’s in the dna of the club.
I can’t handle repetitive rank bad management week in week out.
I’m beginning to lose patience with RS. I understand how difficult he’s had it through the summer, how tough it must have been with recruitment etc etc.
The fact he persists with this formation and Dorsett & Graham is now unforgivable.
It is absolutely horrific to watch, week in week out & I honestly feel more disillusioned now than at any point under Eyre, Barrow, Buckley etc.
What on earth is he watching to keep turning these players and formation out?
He has absolutely no bottle as a manager, we turn up to every home game playing 5 at the back hoping we don’t get beat, yet concede goals for fun and do nothing about it.
This isn’t what he promised us in the summer & this certainly wasn’t what I bought my season card for.
I can handle poor players who lack ability and try hard, that’s in the dna of the club.
I can’t handle repetitive rank bad management week in week out.
There’s too much over reaction, we aren’t seeing rank bad management week in and week out. RS brought in ten new players if memory serves me right at very short notice, it’s pretty obvious that a few of those are struggling at this level but the squad is still very much a work in progress. He understands the physicality of L2 and I think his persistence with Graham and Dorsett is a reflection of that (two man mountains). Unfortunately we haven’t seen much progression from either and both seem lacking in fitness/ stamina to me, especially Graham.
What happens on the pitch this season is secondary really to what has gone on off it and that battle is still being fought, it will hopefully prove be the Clubs biggest victory. Let’s get over the fifty points mark, give the manager two more transfer windows and then start judging his managerial credentials, it’s unfair to do it now.
It's too soon to judge Stockdale properly on some aspects. To be fair 21 points is more than I'd expected.
He's playing with a limited set of players - Centre backs need improving in January as everyone has said.
There are too many journeymen like Dooley who has stolen a living for years.
I fully expect to see a lot of changes in personnel - likes of Broadbent and Dorsett gone.
The one criticism I will give that needs to be changed is STOP doing like for like substitutions when losing. Definite need for a plan B which changes formation.
Home form has been a problem for years - stats bandied about yesterday were something like 1 win in 4 over the last 3 years
It's too soon to judge Stockdale properly on some aspects. To be fair 21 points is more than I'd expected.
He's playing with a limited set of players - Centre backs need improving in January as everyone has said.
There are too many journeymen like Dooley who has stolen a living for years.
I fully expect to see a lot of changes in personnel - likes of Broadbent and Dorsett gone.
The one criticism I will give that needs to be changed is STOP doing like for like substitutions when losing. Definite need for a plan B which changes formation.
Home form has been a problem for years - stats bandied about yesterday were something like 1 win in 4 over the last 3 years
Are you suggesting that Dooley has been conning managers into thinking he is injured so that he does not have to report for duty, train , take part in football matches, and undertake community activities? If so how do you know this. If not can you can you explain what you mean by theft. For all I know you may be / was a massive slacker at work and threw sickes all the time. But please don’t judge Dale players by your own standards. Stolen a wage, FFS.
Are you suggesting that Dooley has been conning managers into thinking he is injured so that he does not have to report for duty, train , take part in football matches, and undertake community activities? If so how do you know this. If not can you can you explain what you mean by theft. For all I know you may be / was a massive slacker at work and threw sickes all the time. But please don’t judge Dale players by your own standards. Stolen a wage, FFS.
You must watch a different match to me then idiot. Dooley is non league standard a bit like your messages
You must watch a different match to me then idiot. Dooley is non league standard a bit like your messages
Sorry, what has his ability or otherwise to play at this level got to do with him stealing wages. Is he someone who steals or not? To me he has “tried” to fulfil his contractual obligations, so no stealing involved. As for the player I think he was lucky to get another contact with us, but as pre season went on I think it was just as well the contract was offered. I think you are right in that his next contract will be with a non league club. But not with us as I think we will be alright.
Needs shaking up , and radically in Jan. Graham and Dorsett should never play again, probably some of the worst defenders we have ever had. Taylor might make it , but certainly not at this level at the moment. Attack is mainly toothless with just one up. I still have a bit of faith in RS , but come on lad you as an ex defender must see those clowns at the back are not fit for pub football.
There are 64 teams who have played in the EFL leagues in all 3 of the past seasons (excl those who have played in the Premiership or National league). Taking home league games only.
The Dale are 64th with 11 home wins from 47 games- 23% win ratio. Next come Stevenage, Wimbledon, Mansfield , Oldham and Birmingham- all under 30%.
Top are Peterborough and Oxford at 61% followed by 10 others at over 50% including Wycombe, Newport and Exeter. Note the southern bias. Only Sunderland and Blackpool in there.
Agree with some comments, but RS is still learning the ropes. My only criticism is that he needs to play to the strengths of the players he has. This squad will never defend well (EOC excepted) but they can attack. There are some fine young players there. Newby, Odoh, Beesley, Grant, Kelly and Morley- they need to be pushed forward, with O`Keene and Keohane in support on the flanks. That would produce goals, and maybe concede. Which approach would the fans prefer?
Needs shaking up , and radically in Jan. Graham and Dorsett should never play again, probably some of the worst defenders we have ever had. Taylor might make it , but certainly not at this level at the moment. Attack is mainly toothless with just one up. I still have a bit of faith in RS , but come on lad you as an ex defender must see those clowns at the back are not fit for pub football.
You're becoming a caricature of yourself now.
When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf?
I disagree with both of you really. I'd argue he's not earning his wage. But, if he's not picked, it's out of his hands.
That harks back to the days when players got a lower wage, but the appearance money was decent. So every player scrapped for the shirt. Sadly the model just doesn’t cut it in the modern world. But a bit of me would just like to see it come back and what difference it would make to players attitudes. However not to be.
There are 64 teams who have played in the EFL leagues in all 3 of the past seasons (excl those who have played in the Premiership or National league). Taking home league games only.
The Dale are 64th with 11 home wins from 47 games- 23% win ratio. Next come Stevenage, Wimbledon, Mansfield , Oldham and Birmingham- all under 30%.
Top are Peterborough and Oxford at 61% followed by 10 others at over 50% including Wycombe, Newport and Exeter. Note the southern bias. Only Sunderland and Blackpool in there.
Agree with some comments, but RS is still learning the ropes. My only criticism is that he needs to play to the strengths of the players he has. This squad will never defend well (EOC excepted) but they can attack. There are some fine young players there. Newby, Odoh, Beesley, Grant, Kelly and Morley- they need to be pushed forward, with O`Keene and Keohane in support on the flanks. That would produce goals, and maybe concede. Which approach would the fans prefer?
Fair point, but much of that awful home record was down to BBM and Keith Hill. Harsh to taint RS with it.
Football circles are very tight knit, especially among managers and trainers. R.S. may have committed to both Graham and Dorsett, that they will get plenty of game time. Just wish the manager could be more adventurous, and play Andrews up front with Beesley. Two big lads up front in winter conditions. It is league two!
In mitigation for RS I think we all accept he’s walked into a difficult job. Losing most of our best players, having to throw together a young squad at late notice and the off field challenges in his first proper job. Having said all that, as a former defender, I’d expect him to recognise that we don’t have the personnel to play three at the back and insisting on doing so is killing the confidence of two young lads.
At the moment I think we’ll have to deal with the inconsistency until at least January and see who we can bring in. No reason why, with some astute acquisitions, we can’t be looking towards the bottom half of the play off positions.
Football circles are very tight knit, especially among managers and trainers. R.S. may have committed to both Graham and Dorsett, that they will get plenty of game time. Just wish the manager could be more adventurous, and play Andrews up front with Beesley. Two big lads up front in winter conditions. It is league two!
I hope thats not the case. The team should be selected on merit. guaranteeing spots to folks who dont warrant a place will just pi** off those who deserve those spots as well as the fans who want to see the best side on the field.
I think the morale effect on O`Connell shouldnt be overlooked. He is arguably our best and most saleable asset and having to prop up 2 rookies with limited ability could unsettle him come January.
In mitigation for RS I think we all accept he’s walked into a difficult job. Losing most of our best players, having to throw together a young squad at late notice and the off field challenges in his first proper job. Having said all that, as a former defender, I’d expect him to recognise that we don’t have the personnel to play three at the back and insisting on doing so is killing the confidence of two young lads.
At the moment I think we’ll have to deal with the inconsistency until at least January and see who we can bring in. No reason why, with some astute acquisitions, we can’t be looking towards the bottom half of the play off positions.
All of this and I'd add it's his first job at the top where the buck stops with him. It bears repeating sometimes - he's still learning on the job. Who his best players are, what is his best team, who he can rely on when it really matters and also about opponents and what is needed to win games at this level.
Add into the above he has made mostly good decisions on recruitment and some players appear to be developing in this team/system under him (Morley, Kelly, Newby, EOC, Bees, Odoh etc), but to expect him to have a 100% hit rate is plain unreasonable. He is giving players a chance and if they don't take that, there will be consequences in the medium to longer term for each.
Is it perfect? No. Will we win the league? No. Is it watchable? Much more so than under BBM. Will we continue to improve? RS pledged to the board and the fans we would. If he doesn't have the players to do that, changes will need to be made.
To judge RS now, 129 days or 4 months 6 days into this role with the situation he inherited is beyond premature (some people I've worked with didn't even know where the kettle was after 4 months)! This is a bloke who has spent his whole life and career in football. He was in the Middlesbrough youth system and switched to being a defender at 15 and 26 years later, after working his way up the ladder, started his first managerial job.
I think he isn't being afforded the respect he deserves in some quarters. Does this experience guarantee his success as a manger? No, absolutely not. Have Daleys foreseen the beginning of the end for managers in the past (before the board)? Yes, absolutely. But ffs, give RS a chance. At the very least he has us mid-table and has stabilised the ship. The time to start judging him will be Christmas 22 in my view. He'll have had his first season under his belt, followed by 2 transfer windows to freshen up the squad and improve it. I'd be very disappointed if he's given anything less and I'd be disappointed if we haven't improved too.
Edit: Jim and Sam Graham are both unavailable so there will be a change in the defensive line up forced on RS.
All of this and I'd add it's his first job at the top where the buck stops with him. It bears repeating sometimes - he's still learning on the job. Who his best players are, what is his best team, who he can rely on when it really matters and also about opponents and what is needed to win games at this level.
Add into the above he has made mostly good decisions on recruitment and some players appear to be developing in this team/system under him (Morley, Kelly, Newby, EOC, Bees, Odoh etc), but to expect him to have a 100% hit rate is plain unreasonable. He is giving players a chance and if they don't take that, there will be consequences in the medium to longer term for each.
Is it perfect? No. Will we win the league? No. Is it watchable? Much more so than under BBM. Will we continue to improve? RS pledged to the board and the fans we would. If he doesn't have the players to do that, changes will need to be made.
To judge RS now, 129 days or 4 months 6 days into this role with the situation he inherited is beyond premature (some people I've worked with didn't even know where the kettle was after 4 months)! This is a bloke who has spent his whole life and career in football. He was in the Middlesbrough youth system and switched to being a defender at 15 and 26 years later, after working his way up the ladder, started his first managerial job.
I think he isn't being afforded the respect he deserves in some quarters. Does this experience guarantee his success as a manger? No, absolutely not. Have Daleys foreseen the beginning of the end for managers in the past (before the board)? Yes, absolutely. But ffs, give RS a chance. At the very least he has us mid-table and has stabilised the ship. The time to start judging him will be Christmas 22 in my view. He'll have had his first season under his belt, followed by 2 transfer windows to freshen up the squad and improve it. I'd be very disappointed if he's given anything less and I'd be disappointed if we haven't improved too.
Edit: Jim and Sam Graham are both unavailable so there will be a change in the defensive line up forced on RS.
All of this and I'd add it's his first job at the top where the buck stops with him. It bears repeating sometimes - he's still learning on the job. Who his best players are, what is his best team, who he can rely on when it really matters and also about opponents and what is needed to win games at this level.
Add into the above he has made mostly good decisions on recruitment and some players appear to be developing in this team/system under him (Morley, Kelly, Newby, EOC, Bees, Odoh etc), but to expect him to have a 100% hit rate is plain unreasonable. He is giving players a chance and if they don't take that, there will be consequences in the medium to longer term for each.
Is it perfect? No. Will we win the league? No. Is it watchable? Much more so than under BBM. Will we continue to improve? RS pledged to the board and the fans we would. If he doesn't have the players to do that, changes will need to be made.
To judge RS now, 129 days or 4 months 6 days into this role with the situation he inherited is beyond premature (some people I've worked with didn't even know where the kettle was after 4 months)! This is a bloke who has spent his whole life and career in football. He was in the Middlesbrough youth system and switched to being a defender at 15 and 26 years later, after working his way up the ladder, started his first managerial job.
I think he isn't being afforded the respect he deserves in some quarters. Does this experience guarantee his success as a manger? No, absolutely not. Have Daleys foreseen the beginning of the end for managers in the past (before the board)? Yes, absolutely. But ffs, give RS a chance. At the very least he has us mid-table and has stabilised the ship. The time to start judging him will be Christmas 22 in my view. He'll have had his first season under his belt, followed by 2 transfer windows to freshen up the squad and improve it. I'd be very disappointed if he's given anything less and I'd be disappointed if we haven't improved too.
Edit: Jim and Sam Graham are both unavailable so there will be a change in the defensive line up forced on RS.
[Post edited 16 Nov 2021 11:47]
Agree 100% with all of this.
I've mentioned it on another post previously, but so long as nothing goes drastically wrong (ie we are in the bottom 2 and in realistic danger of dropping out of the league, he starts skipping training to do betting trips in Dubai, or players start rocking up on here to release dressing room secrets) then he must still be here at Xmas next year.
If we gave him less time than that, we may as well never take a punt on a 'rookie' manager and will always go for journeymen who have inevitably become available due to failing elsewhere.
Thankfully I believe the new board have the long term security of the club (on & off the pitch) firmly in their sights.
I've mentioned it on another post previously, but so long as nothing goes drastically wrong (ie we are in the bottom 2 and in realistic danger of dropping out of the league, he starts skipping training to do betting trips in Dubai, or players start rocking up on here to release dressing room secrets) then he must still be here at Xmas next year.
If we gave him less time than that, we may as well never take a punt on a 'rookie' manager and will always go for journeymen who have inevitably become available due to failing elsewhere.
Thankfully I believe the new board have the long term security of the club (on & off the pitch) firmly in their sights.
And another “agree” from me
Unbeaten in last 5 league games, nine points taken.
From all accounts the football is not quite Brazil yet but think where we were at the end of June.
We appear to have some stability throughout the club, respect for the fans is back from both the board and manager.
Bottom line is these were probably the only players we could afford and the boss is doing what he can with the cards he has been played. Yes he is making mistakes and learning, (i find that is also something I do…you never stop making mistakes ) maybe sometimes not as quick as we would like, but results count.
If you want to know what real dross is take a look at our results in 1973-4 or 1976-7 (among other futile seasons). In the latter we managed to finish 18th somehow. But workington were truly awful, finished rock bottom and were voted out of the league…they crushed us at spotland 3-0…their only away win all season…their only win in their last 17 games….and conceded 30 goals in the following 10 games….a truly embarrassing day.
Me and 857 hardy souls paid to watch at the next home game. We had a blanket collection at half time and despite the crap on the field those hardy souls were still throwing their loose change into it.
And some folks think the current situation is poor!
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