| Ukraine 23:51 - Sep 9 with 84765 views | MrSheen |
Posted with some trepidation as I know Clive doesn’t like multis. Understandably overlooked by the national media, but it seems like the Russians are completely caving in, rope-a-doped as effectively as von Paulus in 1942. Who knows what this might lead to? |  | | |  |
| Ukraine on 21:45 - Sep 20 with 3669 views | Lblock |
| Ukraine on 16:17 - Sep 20 by CroydonCaptJack |
The football threads and the non-political OT threads are generally brilliant.
I tend to just avoid the political ones. I sometimes read them (hence this reply) but don't generally comment or get drawn in. |
This all day long.
As someone once said........
"Never mind the politics" |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Ukraine on 21:55 - Sep 20 with 3641 views | MrSheen |
| Ukraine on 19:38 - Sep 20 by kensalriser |
You're the naive one if you think there's anything communist about China except nominally. It's a hard authoritarian capitalist one party state. |
A strange capitalist state that doesn’t allow private ownership of land or control of banks. Peculiar also that you think it’s being hard and authoritarian is proof it has nothing to do with communism. History suggests it’s essential. [Post edited 20 Sep 2022 22:01]
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| Ukraine on 21:59 - Sep 20 with 3637 views | traininvain |
| Ukraine on 21:28 - Sep 20 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Firstly, thanks for engaging without calling anyone a crank or a communist!
Sorry it’s a long one.
Putin wrote that essay because like every other leadership including our own, he has to throw red meat to nationalists, especially in hard times because strongmen (and women, see Thatcher) win votes. It’s the same reason he poses shirtless on horseback and attacks gays. Prior to Ukraine he was hugely popular amongst the dispossessed because he gave a (often false) sense of nationhood to people still in the shit from the collapse of the USSR and and the transfer of wealth from the poorest to Oligarchs. They don’t fully comprehend the link between him and that transfer because it’s easier to hate others than scrutinise yourself especially when a complicit media tells you too. Most of not all nations are guilty of this to some degree.
Despite the corruption, Russia is still nominally a democracy. You can’t control 140 million people through suppression alone so soft coercion is also deployed.
Sometimes it’s subtle, like a royal wedding or anti immigration laws like we have here and sometimes it’s extreme, like invading a territory such as Ukraine.
I guess what i’m saying is that up until the invasion and with the exception of what happened in Georgia and Chechnya, what comes out of Putin has mostly been hot air aimed at strengthening his image as a strongman.
Ukraine is unique in that all Russo nations consider it the motherland and Kiev it’s capital. Most Russians hate the west, some justifiably, some not. When we launched the coup in 2014 it was an attack on the slavic / orthodox Christian identity and its spiralled since then.
I have to remind you that Western nations including the US, UK, EU, and Israel have also bombed hospitals and schools and in the first week of the Ukrainian invasion the US dropped twice as many armaments on Yemen than Russia did on Ukraine.
I’m sure Putin does have an ego, which plays a huge part in his decision making, but this script has been written before by many nations. How many wars have we been involved in during Putin’s premiership? 12? I am sure the Russian people I’ve looked at the various leaders with the same disdain we rightly do.
Excuse the errors, I’m on a wobbly train home. |
Putin’s rhetoric goes beyond throwing red meat to nationalists. He argued that Ukraine shouldn’t exist as a sovereign country and talked about reinstating the Soviet Union. And when he predictably wages a brutal war against Ukraine we’re supposed to believe that Nato is somehow responsible.
In 2005, Putin called the collapse of the Soviet empire “the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.” Another insight into his world view.
If it was purely a case of Putin wanting to address Nato expansion then he had numerous other ways to do so without such a heinous attack against Ukraine. Were his attacks on Georgia and Chechnya also Nato related?
And Nato expansion is a misrepresentation in itself. Countries apply to join Nato. Ukraine’s application was actually rejected. Putin’s attacks on sovereign nations will result in more countries applying to join Nato.
Ultimately, the Ukrainian people will decide how they want this conflict to end and it’s clear that they are fighting tooth and nail to avoid being occupied by Russia. They see Russia as a much bigger threat than the west / Nato and that speaks volumes. [Post edited 20 Sep 2022 22:29]
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| Ukraine on 23:36 - Sep 20 with 3498 views | GloryHunter |
| Ukraine on 16:17 - Sep 20 by CroydonCaptJack |
The football threads and the non-political OT threads are generally brilliant.
I tend to just avoid the political ones. I sometimes read them (hence this reply) but don't generally comment or get drawn in. |
Just an observation. I've been on this message board for 10 years'ish. I don't use other social media much, but I like this one. We seem like a bunch of mates who all support QPR, have conflicting political views, and argue about everything in the world when we're down the pub. Some people on here seem to know each other personally. I don't. I've PM'd maybe four or five other posters in my time, and I've met up with only one for a drink. But I like the cut and thrust of the arguments on here, generally, and this thread is a good example of a self-moderating healthy exchange of views. That's all. Seconds out, Round 10. [Post edited 20 Sep 2022 23:42]
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| Ukraine on 00:38 - Sep 21 with 3432 views | Rs_Holy |
| Ukraine on 23:36 - Sep 20 by GloryHunter |
Just an observation. I've been on this message board for 10 years'ish. I don't use other social media much, but I like this one. We seem like a bunch of mates who all support QPR, have conflicting political views, and argue about everything in the world when we're down the pub. Some people on here seem to know each other personally. I don't. I've PM'd maybe four or five other posters in my time, and I've met up with only one for a drink. But I like the cut and thrust of the arguments on here, generally, and this thread is a good example of a self-moderating healthy exchange of views. That's all. Seconds out, Round 10. [Post edited 20 Sep 2022 23:42]
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well said GH... it's good to have healthy discussions even if they get a bit heated sometimes. It's good to hear opposing views to mine, listen to others arguments, consider those views, and then decide that i was right all along... :) |  | | |
| Ukraine on 07:39 - Sep 21 with 3240 views | Rs_Holy |
| Ukraine on 21:28 - Sep 20 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Firstly, thanks for engaging without calling anyone a crank or a communist!
Sorry it’s a long one.
Putin wrote that essay because like every other leadership including our own, he has to throw red meat to nationalists, especially in hard times because strongmen (and women, see Thatcher) win votes. It’s the same reason he poses shirtless on horseback and attacks gays. Prior to Ukraine he was hugely popular amongst the dispossessed because he gave a (often false) sense of nationhood to people still in the shit from the collapse of the USSR and and the transfer of wealth from the poorest to Oligarchs. They don’t fully comprehend the link between him and that transfer because it’s easier to hate others than scrutinise yourself especially when a complicit media tells you too. Most of not all nations are guilty of this to some degree.
Despite the corruption, Russia is still nominally a democracy. You can’t control 140 million people through suppression alone so soft coercion is also deployed.
Sometimes it’s subtle, like a royal wedding or anti immigration laws like we have here and sometimes it’s extreme, like invading a territory such as Ukraine.
I guess what i’m saying is that up until the invasion and with the exception of what happened in Georgia and Chechnya, what comes out of Putin has mostly been hot air aimed at strengthening his image as a strongman.
Ukraine is unique in that all Russo nations consider it the motherland and Kiev it’s capital. Most Russians hate the west, some justifiably, some not. When we launched the coup in 2014 it was an attack on the slavic / orthodox Christian identity and its spiralled since then.
I have to remind you that Western nations including the US, UK, EU, and Israel have also bombed hospitals and schools and in the first week of the Ukrainian invasion the US dropped twice as many armaments on Yemen than Russia did on Ukraine.
I’m sure Putin does have an ego, which plays a huge part in his decision making, but this script has been written before by many nations. How many wars have we been involved in during Putin’s premiership? 12? I am sure the Russian people I’ve looked at the various leaders with the same disdain we rightly do.
Excuse the errors, I’m on a wobbly train home. |
Morning Bazza, just wondering what your views are on the referendums planned by Putin in 4 regions of Ukraine?
As you say Russia is a sort of democracy (as long as you are willing to 'disappear' if you lead an opposition party). Also will the displaced people of the region, now living temporarily in other parts of Europe, get a postal vote? .... Just wondering. | | | |
| Ukraine on 07:55 - Sep 21 with 3208 views | DWQPR |
| Ukraine on 07:39 - Sep 21 by Rs_Holy |
Morning Bazza, just wondering what your views are on the referendums planned by Putin in 4 regions of Ukraine?
As you say Russia is a sort of democracy (as long as you are willing to 'disappear' if you lead an opposition party). Also will the displaced people of the region, now living temporarily in other parts of Europe, get a postal vote? .... Just wondering. |
Russia is not a democracy. There is no free press, no expression of opposition to Putin is allowed unless you are prepared to do 15 years in a gulag. The ‘elections’ are to put it mildly ‘rigged’. Now tell me which part of this I have overlooked to say that it is a democracy. In fact I suspect that China has more democratic values than Russia.
Putin has addressed the Russian nation. More willy waving. Accusing the west of ‘nuclear blackmail’ and telling us that his cock is bigger than ours. Also announced partial mobilising of their equivalent of the TA. That will go down well, more chance for more body bags stacking up in Moscow. I suspect that these announcements are of a man who is starting to feel the breath of his own generals down his neck. |  |
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| Ukraine on 08:06 - Sep 21 with 3196 views | silverbirch |
| Ukraine on 20:07 - Sep 20 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I was alluding to expansion, the US backed Ukrainian coup in 2014, and civilian economic sanctions (not military or capital) that don’t hit oligarchs just civilians.
I won’t post anything from StW or CND as it offends, so I’ve gone for this instead.
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2022/03/30/why-the-us-and-nato-have-long-want
I cannot stress enough that criticism of NATO / US / EU states does not mean condoning Russian aggression AT ALL. Just some nuance for a complicated situation. [Post edited 20 Sep 2022 21:30]
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Interesting stuff. Thanks | | | |
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| Ukraine on 08:26 - Sep 21 with 3146 views | connell10 |
Just listened to Putins address , the man is totally mad! He is living in another world , bullet through the head is on the cards for him i should think! |  |
| AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!! | | Poll: | best number 10 ever? |
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| Ukraine on 08:51 - Sep 21 with 3077 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Ukraine on 07:39 - Sep 21 by Rs_Holy |
Morning Bazza, just wondering what your views are on the referendums planned by Putin in 4 regions of Ukraine?
As you say Russia is a sort of democracy (as long as you are willing to 'disappear' if you lead an opposition party). Also will the displaced people of the region, now living temporarily in other parts of Europe, get a postal vote? .... Just wondering. |
It’s going to be a corrupt gerrymandered process I assume. |  | | |
| Ukraine on 08:59 - Sep 21 with 3059 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Ukraine on 23:36 - Sep 20 by GloryHunter |
Just an observation. I've been on this message board for 10 years'ish. I don't use other social media much, but I like this one. We seem like a bunch of mates who all support QPR, have conflicting political views, and argue about everything in the world when we're down the pub. Some people on here seem to know each other personally. I don't. I've PM'd maybe four or five other posters in my time, and I've met up with only one for a drink. But I like the cut and thrust of the arguments on here, generally, and this thread is a good example of a self-moderating healthy exchange of views. That's all. Seconds out, Round 10. [Post edited 20 Sep 2022 23:42]
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Agree 100%, GloryHunter.
I find this forum changes my mind for me more than newspapers or social media. |  |
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| Ukraine on 10:32 - Sep 21 with 2936 views | PunteR |
| Ukraine on 23:36 - Sep 20 by GloryHunter |
Just an observation. I've been on this message board for 10 years'ish. I don't use other social media much, but I like this one. We seem like a bunch of mates who all support QPR, have conflicting political views, and argue about everything in the world when we're down the pub. Some people on here seem to know each other personally. I don't. I've PM'd maybe four or five other posters in my time, and I've met up with only one for a drink. But I like the cut and thrust of the arguments on here, generally, and this thread is a good example of a self-moderating healthy exchange of views. That's all. Seconds out, Round 10. [Post edited 20 Sep 2022 23:42]
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It always descends into fall outs. Always.
It's been ok on here recently but the usual suspects are circling from above waiting to jump in and we're back to the same squabbling from the Brexit/Corona/Monachy debates/rows etc
As Clive repeatedly says ,there's plenty other forums to discuss politics and have heated debates.
I've had proper fall outs with people I've never even met which is ridiculous. I blame myself for getting involved in the first place. It really shouldn't be like that on a QPR forum.
The Croydon Captn has it right. |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Ukraine on 11:25 - Sep 21 with 2825 views | CroydonCaptJack |
| Ukraine on 10:32 - Sep 21 by PunteR |
It always descends into fall outs. Always.
It's been ok on here recently but the usual suspects are circling from above waiting to jump in and we're back to the same squabbling from the Brexit/Corona/Monachy debates/rows etc
As Clive repeatedly says ,there's plenty other forums to discuss politics and have heated debates.
I've had proper fall outs with people I've never even met which is ridiculous. I blame myself for getting involved in the first place. It really shouldn't be like that on a QPR forum.
The Croydon Captn has it right. |
There is a first time for everything mate  |  | | |
| Ukraine on 11:57 - Sep 21 with 2754 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
Outside of the list below I think anyone should be allowed to say what they want, and if non QPR themes aren’t your bag then there are faculties to avoid them. However, ultimately it’s Clive’s forum so will go by his decisions.
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I’m guilty of breaching a couple of these and for that I apologise. [Post edited 21 Sep 2022 12:09]
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| Ukraine on 13:21 - Sep 21 with 2568 views | kensalriser |
| Ukraine on 21:55 - Sep 20 by MrSheen |
A strange capitalist state that doesn’t allow private ownership of land or control of banks. Peculiar also that you think it’s being hard and authoritarian is proof it has nothing to do with communism. History suggests it’s essential. [Post edited 20 Sep 2022 22:01]
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It's state capitalism. It m ay not be exactly the same capitalism as practised in Western liberal democracies, but it's still capitalism. I don't know why you think private ownership of property is prohibited given the amount of column inches written about the Chinese property boom in recent years. China has almost as many billionaires as the US now. It is a very different country from the China of Chairman Mao and the only thing communist about it now is purely vestigial. |  |
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| Ukraine on 13:31 - Sep 21 with 2548 views | kensalriser |
| Ukraine on 20:07 - Sep 20 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I was alluding to expansion, the US backed Ukrainian coup in 2014, and civilian economic sanctions (not military or capital) that don’t hit oligarchs just civilians.
I won’t post anything from StW or CND as it offends, so I’ve gone for this instead.
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2022/03/30/why-the-us-and-nato-have-long-want
I cannot stress enough that criticism of NATO / US / EU states does not mean condoning Russian aggression AT ALL. Just some nuance for a complicated situation. [Post edited 20 Sep 2022 21:30]
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'US backed coup'. seems to to me a gross misrepresentation of the facts, not to mention a somewhat Russocentric view. The alternative view is that an unpopular government was essentially forced to step down by wide scale popular protest following its ignoring of the Parliament's decision to sign a trade deal with the EU and bending to pressure from Moscow.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity [Post edited 21 Sep 2022 15:00]
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| Ukraine on 13:34 - Sep 21 with 2520 views | MrSheen |
| Ukraine on 13:21 - Sep 21 by kensalriser |
It's state capitalism. It m ay not be exactly the same capitalism as practised in Western liberal democracies, but it's still capitalism. I don't know why you think private ownership of property is prohibited given the amount of column inches written about the Chinese property boom in recent years. China has almost as many billionaires as the US now. It is a very different country from the China of Chairman Mao and the only thing communist about it now is purely vestigial. |
https://www.mondaq.com/china/land-law-agriculture/89998/ownership-of-land-in-chi
Private ownership of land is prohibited. Private ownership of banks is limited to minority stakes in a small sector. Read the columns, don't measure them, perhaps? | | | |
| Ukraine on 13:37 - Sep 21 with 2504 views | kernowhoop |
| Ukraine on 13:21 - Sep 21 by kensalriser |
It's state capitalism. It m ay not be exactly the same capitalism as practised in Western liberal democracies, but it's still capitalism. I don't know why you think private ownership of property is prohibited given the amount of column inches written about the Chinese property boom in recent years. China has almost as many billionaires as the US now. It is a very different country from the China of Chairman Mao and the only thing communist about it now is purely vestigial. |
Let's call it 'authoritarian' where the state knows best. Re-education for those that express their own views; a social points system that allows (or does not allow) you to exercise privileges that we take for granted and if that is not enough, the prospect of a shot in the back of the head for serious dissenters. | | | |
| Ukraine on 13:47 - Sep 21 with 2470 views | R_from_afar |
| Ukraine on 00:38 - Sep 21 by Rs_Holy |
well said GH... it's good to have healthy discussions even if they get a bit heated sometimes. It's good to hear opposing views to mine, listen to others arguments, consider those views, and then decide that i was right all along... :) |
Yes, good post, Glory Hunter, and I want to say here that on the "Energy bills" thread, although things got a bit tetchy, after being at loggerheads for umpteen pages of posts, a truce was declared between Sakura and I when he upvoted a post of mine. Hats off to him for that 
So, peace can occasionally break out. Let's hope it does in Ukraine.
And Yemen.
And Ethiopia/Eritrea.
And... |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Ukraine on 16:41 - Sep 21 with 2272 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Ukraine on 11:54 - Sep 20 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I'm posting this not because I'm anti West, pro Putin, or any of the other things the usual suspects will say. I can live with a handful of downvotes from basement dwelling losers.
I am posting this because I love my country and don't want to see it's people die in a nuclear war because clueless careerists who'll be first in the bunker with no skin in the game can't keep their mouths shut.
We are saying the exact same thing this side of the pond as Gurulyov, albeit less bombastically.
If it's good enough for Social Democrats to say, of course it will empower a mad Russian nationalist to say it.
We need to end the double standards before we can position ourselves as the righteous actors in this conflict.
'Liz Truss says she’s ‘ready’ to hit nuclear button if necessary'
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-nuclear-button-ready-b2 |
Mrs PH and I just back after a few weeks in Scotland, what momentous changes took place in that period.
In that time, I caught some news and while I have serious doubts about the basic intellectual capacity of Lizard to hold any sort of office, it is particularly worrying that she has attained the highest one of all.
From what I have heard of Lizard, I'm as worried as I am not the least bit surprised to read that she allegedly made such a stupid comment as that reported in the link.
But what has really got my goat up, is what an ignorant individual she seems. Upon getting the nod, she did not have the good grace to say anything to Sumak on her way to the stage; she walked past him as if he were a piece of turd.
Then as she got out of the car with her hubby to enter No. 10 as PM, she basically ignored the poor sod and left him trailing behind. If a male PM had done that to his wife, it would have been jumped on as a sign of ignorance and worse.
The next time I saw her gormless ignorance on display, was upon exiting the car at Balmoral. One of the Queen's attendees opened the door, and Lizard just drifted past her without any sort of acknowledgement. Compare that with the Royals on Monday who thanked those opening and closing doors.
Just basic manners, Lizard has none. I've not seen anyone love themselves as much as her as she struts about as if everyone is there just to look at her.
She has a propensity to say stupid things on a par with her predecessor. The Military chiefs had to reign her in after she said we would stand up to China; she backtracked on saying she'd pay regional rates to Civil Servants; and I understand she is going to advocate for trickle down economics at the UN today - when it has been widely discredited as ever having had any sort of economic benefit for the poorest in society.
In my view, Lizard is the thickest and gives Boris a run for the most ignorant PM we have had in my lifetime. I believe she is also the most dangerous individual the UK has had at the helm as well. I suspect that her performance as PM will be thus, that she will hasten the break up of the UK, as the regions cite her crumbling performance as to why they should go it alone.
Lord knows what other damage she'll heap down as well. What a total and utter clusterfuk... |  |
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| Ukraine on 17:59 - Sep 21 with 2120 views | QPR_John |
| Ukraine on 16:41 - Sep 21 by PlanetHonneywood |
Mrs PH and I just back after a few weeks in Scotland, what momentous changes took place in that period.
In that time, I caught some news and while I have serious doubts about the basic intellectual capacity of Lizard to hold any sort of office, it is particularly worrying that she has attained the highest one of all.
From what I have heard of Lizard, I'm as worried as I am not the least bit surprised to read that she allegedly made such a stupid comment as that reported in the link.
But what has really got my goat up, is what an ignorant individual she seems. Upon getting the nod, she did not have the good grace to say anything to Sumak on her way to the stage; she walked past him as if he were a piece of turd.
Then as she got out of the car with her hubby to enter No. 10 as PM, she basically ignored the poor sod and left him trailing behind. If a male PM had done that to his wife, it would have been jumped on as a sign of ignorance and worse.
The next time I saw her gormless ignorance on display, was upon exiting the car at Balmoral. One of the Queen's attendees opened the door, and Lizard just drifted past her without any sort of acknowledgement. Compare that with the Royals on Monday who thanked those opening and closing doors.
Just basic manners, Lizard has none. I've not seen anyone love themselves as much as her as she struts about as if everyone is there just to look at her.
She has a propensity to say stupid things on a par with her predecessor. The Military chiefs had to reign her in after she said we would stand up to China; she backtracked on saying she'd pay regional rates to Civil Servants; and I understand she is going to advocate for trickle down economics at the UN today - when it has been widely discredited as ever having had any sort of economic benefit for the poorest in society.
In my view, Lizard is the thickest and gives Boris a run for the most ignorant PM we have had in my lifetime. I believe she is also the most dangerous individual the UK has had at the helm as well. I suspect that her performance as PM will be thus, that she will hasten the break up of the UK, as the regions cite her crumbling performance as to why they should go it alone.
Lord knows what other damage she'll heap down as well. What a total and utter clusterfuk... |
“Just basic manners, Lizard has none.”
Calling somebody Lizard is hardly showing basic manners. | | | |
| Ukraine on 18:05 - Sep 21 with 2102 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Ukraine on 17:59 - Sep 21 by QPR_John |
“Just basic manners, Lizard has none.”
Calling somebody Lizard is hardly showing basic manners. |
I suspect I'll get to call her a lot worse before her conduct and performance warrants anything remotely respectful.
I suspect those who'll suffer at her policies will comment likewise. | |
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| Ukraine on 18:09 - Sep 21 with 2086 views | CroydonCaptJack |
| Ukraine on 17:59 - Sep 21 by QPR_John |
“Just basic manners, Lizard has none.”
Calling somebody Lizard is hardly showing basic manners. |
Yes, the irony. | | | |
| Ukraine on 18:09 - Sep 21 with 2085 views | collegeranger |
The next couple of weeks will be interesting Russia has a record of getting restless with the rulers in the month of October! Sending out reservists to the frontline as the weather turns could be Putin's downfall as the trains carrying the bodybags back begin to pile up. Also expect a number of 'political' refugees from Russia and Belarus as conscription is now a real possibility.
He is now playing the "I have nuclear so don't push me" but I doubt he will use it as quite literally could blow back into his face ! |  | | |
| Ukraine on 18:21 - Sep 21 with 4893 views | Discodroids |
Fu ck a White Swan. I wouldn't moderate this forum for all the hellbanianz Gascoigne Barking council estate yayo Served up on a Saint Teresa Sanctification Day bank holiday weekend. |  |
| The Duke Of New York. A-Number One.
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