| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson 15:31 - Jul 19 with 5375 views | real_loftus |
Absolutely outrageous that the Met copper got off the manslaughter charge. I mean, its not as if he was caught bang to rights on camera....no, wait...
The copper had a horrendous disciplinary record, and will no doubt retire on compassionate grounds on full pension.
This country....... |  |
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| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 17:41 - Jul 19 with 1093 views | essextaxiboy |
| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 17:35 - Jul 19 by real_loftus |
Well no, they didnt hear ALL the evidence. Harwood's history of violence and disciplinary issues were deemed inadmissible apparently.
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Of course they were not admissable , he was on trial for this offence , nothing else . If previous was allowed you would get the police charging anyone with a relevant record for stuff they didnt do and jurys convicting just cos he did it last time . |  | | |
| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 17:45 - Jul 19 with 1087 views | Northernr |
| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 17:41 - Jul 19 by essextaxiboy |
Of course they were not admissable , he was on trial for this offence , nothing else . If previous was allowed you would get the police charging anyone with a relevant record for stuff they didnt do and jurys convicting just cos he did it last time . |
I agree with you to a certain extent, but more often than not that rule is used to get people who are obviously guilty off. If you've sat in court before then you'll know if the defence isn't putting up a load of character witnesses and saying what a splendid bloke the defendant is and how good his character is then it means he's got previous, but most jurors won't know that and won't realise.
How can it possibly be fair that the jury doesn't know this is a police officer with a history of violence and loss of temper when on duty when they're trying him for being violent and losing his temper on duty? It's ridiculous.
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| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 17:48 - Jul 19 with 1079 views | QPR1506 |
I was not aware of Tomlinsons previuos indescretions. The Justice system is screwed if previous incidents are not allowed to be used as evidence !! |  |
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| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 17:57 - Jul 19 with 1059 views | Northernr |
When asked by the prosecution barrister to list options available to the police to move somebody on in a public order situation, he listed the following before he mentioned a "vocal request" for them to move.
Baton strike to arm
Baton strike to leg
Pushing
Kicking
Punching
CS spray
handcuffs
After vocal request he went onto list
Use of firearm
Attack with riot shield
Deliver a life threatening strike.
Not guilty  | | | |
| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 17:58 - Jul 19 with 1053 views | Pacal_Votan |
| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 17:41 - Jul 19 by essextaxiboy |
Of course they were not admissable , he was on trial for this offence , nothing else . If previous was allowed you would get the police charging anyone with a relevant record for stuff they didnt do and jurys convicting just cos he did it last time . |
Would you "accept" it if it was your dad?
F@ck off. |  |
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| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 18:02 - Jul 19 with 1044 views | essextaxiboy |
| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 17:48 - Jul 19 by QPR1506 |
I was not aware of Tomlinsons previuos indescretions. The Justice system is screwed if previous incidents are not allowed to be used as evidence !! |
They are not evidence. If you are concerned about police corruption its the only way . if you had 2 or three convictions for burglary , sorted yourself out and went straight you would be convicted in an instant by a jury for something you didnt do when they heard your past .. it really would be a licence for police corruptikn imo. | | | |
| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 18:03 - Jul 19 with 1036 views | TheBlob |
I smell a mistrial ruling.
Good job it ain't hot,might have had another riot on our hands. |  |
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| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 18:05 - Jul 19 with 1026 views | scot1963 |
| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 17:41 - Jul 19 by essextaxiboy |
Of course they were not admissable , he was on trial for this offence , nothing else . If previous was allowed you would get the police charging anyone with a relevant record for stuff they didnt do and jurys convicting just cos he did it last time . |
but as Ron said, evidence regarding the victim's health was allowed, which does not have any bearing on causation. You can see how the information about the victim's health would have been taken on board and influenced the jury by looking at some of the posts on this thread |  | | |
| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 18:10 - Jul 19 with 1014 views | essextaxiboy |
| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 17:58 - Jul 19 by Pacal_Votan |
Would you "accept" it if it was your dad?
F@ck off. |
No i would be angry and bitter . | | | |
| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 18:19 - Jul 19 with 1002 views | Pacal_Votan |
So as long as it doesn't affect you then you're basically saying that those related to the murdered Father should accept it.
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| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 18:38 - Jul 19 with 981 views | essextaxiboy |
| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 18:19 - Jul 19 by Pacal_Votan |
So as long as it doesn't affect you then you're basically saying that those related to the murdered Father should accept it.
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No not at all... i mean as a society we should accept it . You cant make law personal . it has to be objective and consistent so we buy into it . | | | |
| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 19:05 - Jul 19 with 946 views | nadera78 |
| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 17:57 - Jul 19 by Northernr |
When asked by the prosecution barrister to list options available to the police to move somebody on in a public order situation, he listed the following before he mentioned a "vocal request" for them to move.
Baton strike to arm
Baton strike to leg
Pushing
Kicking
Punching
CS spray
handcuffs
After vocal request he went onto list
Use of firearm
Attack with riot shield
Deliver a life threatening strike.
Not guilty |
I notice he didn't list ramming a man's head into a police van, which is what he'd done earlier on that day. |  | | |
| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 19:05 - Jul 19 with 936 views | fblockasia |
| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 18:38 - Jul 19 by essextaxiboy |
No not at all... i mean as a society we should accept it . You cant make law personal . it has to be objective and consistent so we buy into it . |
" as a society we should accept it "
speechless |  | | |
| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 19:07 - Jul 19 with 932 views | FDC |
| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 18:38 - Jul 19 by essextaxiboy |
No not at all... i mean as a society we should accept it . You cant make law personal . it has to be objective and consistent so we buy into it . |
It's neither objective nor consistent and I don't buy it. |  | | |
| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 19:16 - Jul 19 with 917 views | FDC |
Whilst we're talking about previous, I was at a protest last summer when a middle-aged woman was suddenly snatched up by those lovely TAU chaps. There was a Green and Black Cross person nearby so myself and my other half gave some contact details so we could provide evidence if it went to trial.
I happened to bump into the same GBC member recently, who told me that the woman had been advised by her solicitor to admit a public disorder offence, on the grounds that she had previously been tried for a similar thing, and pleading not guilty could have landed her with a custodial sentence.
The punch-line is that the circumstances of her previous misdemeanor were pretty much identical. So intimidation of protestors by indiscriminate arrests basically, it happens all the time.
Meanwhile, 10 activists in Italy have all been given long custodial sentences for public disorder at the Genoa protests in 2001, whilst the police that stormed the school indiscriminately battering the fck out of people, killing one and injuring many, receive - yep fck all.
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| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 19:55 - Jul 19 with 888 views | smegma |
"Details of PC Simon Harwood's disciplinary history, disclosed at pre-inquest hearings and pre-trial hearings, include allegations that he punched, throttled, kneed, threatened and unlawfully arrested people. They show he avoided likely disciplinary proceedings by the Metropolitan police over an alleged road rage incident by resigning owing to ill health. He later joined another force before moving back to the Met".
How was he allowed to rejoin the Met after leaving due to ill health ? Did he get a pension when leaving the Met (as happens in most cases)?No doubt he'll resign again due to ill health.
This case stinks worse than the JT case.A man was killed, even if it wasn't murder , the inquest ruled he was killed unlawfully. Good luck to the family in their pursuit of justice. | | | |
| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 20:11 - Jul 19 with 871 views | willis1980 |
Everything about this case makes my blood boil, if a regular member of the public had done this theyd be serving time. At this point Im not sure what is worse, the fact this parasite walked free or the fact that theres people daft enough to defend him. I wonder how this twunt would feel if someone cracked him over the back of the head while he walks out of court. | | | |
| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 20:42 - Jul 19 with 846 views | MrSheen |
| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 19:16 - Jul 19 by FDC |
Whilst we're talking about previous, I was at a protest last summer when a middle-aged woman was suddenly snatched up by those lovely TAU chaps. There was a Green and Black Cross person nearby so myself and my other half gave some contact details so we could provide evidence if it went to trial.
I happened to bump into the same GBC member recently, who told me that the woman had been advised by her solicitor to admit a public disorder offence, on the grounds that she had previously been tried for a similar thing, and pleading not guilty could have landed her with a custodial sentence.
The punch-line is that the circumstances of her previous misdemeanor were pretty much identical. So intimidation of protestors by indiscriminate arrests basically, it happens all the time.
Meanwhile, 10 activists in Italy have all been given long custodial sentences for public disorder at the Genoa protests in 2001, whilst the police that stormed the school indiscriminately battering the fck out of people, killing one and injuring many, receive - yep fck all.
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Have you got a link about the 10 long sentences?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/27th_G8_summit
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| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 21:00 - Jul 19 with 799 views | Brightonhoop |
Astonishingly I find myself agreeing with real....
There's a good argument in Law for not making previous convictions admissable, as in this case, there was more than enough evidence to convict alone on the footage. Even the filth around him looked shocked at his assault on a bloke walking away with his hands in his pockets. So as noted there were no grounds to place the deceased's health to the jury either as it could, and possibly has, unbalanced the case.
Either way, those Jurors will be feeling complete and utter knobheads tonight. There's been arguments in the past that Jury's should be of a certain IQ, this case supports that argument. |  | | |
| Non QPR - Ian Tomlinson on 21:01 - Jul 19 with 798 views | TGRRRSSS |
Taxiboy
If Tomlinson was in the place of Harwood he'd be in a cell now, this idea of what is and isn't admissable evidence is a joke within itself as evidenced by health of Tomlinson veruses previous by a Police Constable.
All that being said and whilst i think Harwood guilty as hell how many were on here at the time of riots last summer saying OB should be allowed to get stuck into the scum, you can't have it both ways. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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