| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED 09:05 - Oct 16 with 16530 views | KeithHaynes |
The not Not Loyal match day thread fresh from the beating at Burnley to the battlefields of the Preseli mountains ish.
https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/swanseacity/news/5876
https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/swanseacity/news/58764/joel-piroe-out-unt
Referee : JAMES BELL
Lino’s : Adam Crysell and Sam Lewis
Fourth Official : Andy Davies
The NL review. James Bell, also known as ding dong to his few friends has been a referee since he was four years of age. His first red card he gave to his next door neighbour at the age of five, his family moved home at that point but didn’t tell him. He was raised in the orphanage for potentially parentless young referees but quickly made his escape to the North Lancashire leagues where his first appointment was with make up manufacturer Avon. He would be lifted up and ring the potential clients doorbell. In school he earned the nickname ‘End’ After qualifying at 14, James Bell primarily officiated games at his secondary school and in the Sheffield & District Junior League. Initially balancing his refereeing and playing commitments, he chose the former and steadily progressed through the system, earning promotion onto the National List of assistant referees at the age of 23.
Bell assisted on both the 2016 FA Youth Cup Final between Manchester City v Chelsea and the 2017 League Two Play-Off Final between Blackpool v Exeter City at Wembley Stadium before choosing the refereeing pathway. He took charge of the National League Play-Off Final between Harrogate Town v Notts County in 2020 before receiving promotion onto the National Group. Bell has since taken charge of semi-finals of each of the EFL Trophy, FA Trophy, FA Sunday Cup, FA Youth Cup and FA County Youth Cup.
Swansea City: Steven Benda; Nathan Wood, Harry Darling, Ben Cabango; Joel Latibeaudiere, Jay Fulton, Matt Grimes (captain), Matty Sorinola; Luke Cundle, Ollie Cooper; Michael Obafemi.
Substitutes: Andy Fisher, Olivier Ntcham, Liam Cullen, Armstrong Oko-Flex, Fin Stevens, Kyle Naughton, Josh Thomas.
Reading: Joe Lumley, Tom Holmes, Tom McIntyre, Jeff Hendrick, Tom Ince, Yakou Meite, Andy Yiadom (captain), Tyrese Fornah, Mamadou Loum, Junior Hoilett, Amadou Mbengue.
Substitutes: Dean Bouzanis, Andy Carroll, Shane Long, Lucas Joao, Baba Rehman, Ovie Ejaria, Nesta Guinness-Walker.
https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/swanseacity/news/58777/a-fantastic-swanse
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 16:28 - Oct 19 with 1252 views | vetchonian |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 15:47 - Oct 19 by ploppy |
That may well be the intention, but what percentage of our "long balls" are successful i.e. go to one of our players? I don't know the answer but I'd wager it's pretty low. Depends whether you think the risk is worth the reward.
Those tactics remind me of Garry Monk and his "being comfortable without the ball", and Cooper's "shape" mantra. Both of which were tedious to watch. IMHO of course. |
A lot of last seasons football was tedious to watch sideways and backwards passing mostly in our own half!!
Opinions eh |  |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 17:02 - Oct 19 with 1217 views | RichardO |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 16:28 - Oct 19 by vetchonian |
A lot of last seasons football was tedious to watch sideways and backwards passing mostly in our own half!!
Opinions eh |
Long balls may be good at relieving pressure into space you can exploit or to the forwards but not if the forward is heavily marked and isolated.
Get attacking players closer together and have pace and movement in the team to be able to support them.
You could actually say that would work for both long ball or shorter passing game.
Both Sorinola and Latibeaudie try to drive forward with the ball and although without pace did get us a number of corners in the first half. | | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 17:24 - Oct 19 with 1195 views | max936 |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 15:47 - Oct 19 by ploppy |
That may well be the intention, but what percentage of our "long balls" are successful i.e. go to one of our players? I don't know the answer but I'd wager it's pretty low. Depends whether you think the risk is worth the reward.
Those tactics remind me of Garry Monk and his "being comfortable without the ball", and Cooper's "shape" mantra. Both of which were tedious to watch. IMHO of course. |
Kick the ball long of which 90% or more of the time the opposition get the ball and attack us, we lost the ball last night minute or less later they hit us on the break and scored, only Obafemi has the pace to retain long ball's/ long passes etc, we not pacey enough to play like that, 3,4, 5 times a game we may win the ball, doesn't mean we'll score from them or even threaten a goal. |  |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 21:58 - Oct 19 with 1062 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 15:47 - Oct 19 by ploppy |
That may well be the intention, but what percentage of our "long balls" are successful i.e. go to one of our players? I don't know the answer but I'd wager it's pretty low. Depends whether you think the risk is worth the reward.
Those tactics remind me of Garry Monk and his "being comfortable without the ball", and Cooper's "shape" mantra. Both of which were tedious to watch. IMHO of course. |
Then you don’t know football.
Brendan Rodgers and Roberto Martinez sides had wonderful a long ball side of their game, it was key to our success.
You also haven’t realised that we have gone on such a good run recently because the side has been increasing our long balls by up to 350%. |  |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 22:03 - Oct 19 with 1052 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 17:24 - Oct 19 by max936 |
Kick the ball long of which 90% or more of the time the opposition get the ball and attack us, we lost the ball last night minute or less later they hit us on the break and scored, only Obafemi has the pace to retain long ball's/ long passes etc, we not pacey enough to play like that, 3,4, 5 times a game we may win the ball, doesn't mean we'll score from them or even threaten a goal. |
You think our long ball success rate is 10%?!
Again we are winning recently because our long balls have tripled and nearly quadrupled.
Yesterday for example our outfield long ball success rate (so not including goal kicks) was almost 60%.
Give me 60% success rate on adventurous and dangerous attacking passes than a 96% success rate of knocking it around our own safe zones.
In fact we won 2-0 in the half with former, and lost 2-1 in the half with the latter.
Go figure. [Post edited 19 Oct 2022 22:30]
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 22:20 - Oct 19 with 1033 views | onehunglow |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 16:28 - Oct 19 by vetchonian |
A lot of last seasons football was tedious to watch sideways and backwards passing mostly in our own half!!
Opinions eh |
We are going over old ground
It’s all been said before.
All this crap should end now | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 22:40 - Oct 19 with 1010 views | ploppy |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 21:58 - Oct 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
Then you don’t know football.
Brendan Rodgers and Roberto Martinez sides had wonderful a long ball side of their game, it was key to our success.
You also haven’t realised that we have gone on such a good run recently because the side has been increasing our long balls by up to 350%. |
Which part of football don't I know, exactly?
Ashley Williams's 60 yard cross field balls to Dyer were a thing of beauty. Every time someone hits a long ball to Lati or Sorinola, an angel loses its wings.
The reason we've gone on such a good run recently is that we've stopped giving stupid goals away in the last 5 mins. It's really as simple as that. Nothing to do with long passes, short passes, xG, successful presses in the final third, xGA, or any of the other modern-day metrics. We got stuffed by Burnley because we didn't defend properly (ahem, Cabango) - no stats necessary. | | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 22:43 - Oct 19 with 980 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 22:40 - Oct 19 by ploppy |
Which part of football don't I know, exactly?
Ashley Williams's 60 yard cross field balls to Dyer were a thing of beauty. Every time someone hits a long ball to Lati or Sorinola, an angel loses its wings.
The reason we've gone on such a good run recently is that we've stopped giving stupid goals away in the last 5 mins. It's really as simple as that. Nothing to do with long passes, short passes, xG, successful presses in the final third, xGA, or any of the other modern-day metrics. We got stuffed by Burnley because we didn't defend properly (ahem, Cabango) - no stats necessary. |
Well you seemed to not realise that our success and change of style recently has come from a massive increase in long balls.
We have stopped giving silly goals away because we are opting for better long ball options as opposed to tippy tappy football at the back. It’s why possession has also fallen off a cliff (52% in the recent run) and pass number almost halved from 750 to about 420.
You seem to think that was a Garry Monk thing despite “the Swansea way” being heavily reliant on it.
You seemed to think it was an extremely low success rate. | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 22:45 - Oct 19 with 998 views | onehunglow |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 22:40 - Oct 19 by ploppy |
Which part of football don't I know, exactly?
Ashley Williams's 60 yard cross field balls to Dyer were a thing of beauty. Every time someone hits a long ball to Lati or Sorinola, an angel loses its wings.
The reason we've gone on such a good run recently is that we've stopped giving stupid goals away in the last 5 mins. It's really as simple as that. Nothing to do with long passes, short passes, xG, successful presses in the final third, xGA, or any of the other modern-day metrics. We got stuffed by Burnley because we didn't defend properly (ahem, Cabango) - no stats necessary. |
Exactly right | |
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| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED on 09:01 - Oct 20 with 882 views | sw02sea |
Unrelated to this thread, but can anyone tell me how many goals we’ve scored this season, direct from a corner like Darling’s one Tuesday?
Bit of a debate about it in the pub 🻠| | | |
| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED on 12:48 - Oct 20 with 822 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED on 09:01 - Oct 20 by sw02sea |
Unrelated to this thread, but can anyone tell me how many goals we’ve scored this season, direct from a corner like Darling’s one Tuesday?
Bit of a debate about it in the pub 🻠|
Think it’s three. |  |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 14:31 - Oct 20 with 785 views | ploppy |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 22:43 - Oct 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
Well you seemed to not realise that our success and change of style recently has come from a massive increase in long balls.
We have stopped giving silly goals away because we are opting for better long ball options as opposed to tippy tappy football at the back. It’s why possession has also fallen off a cliff (52% in the recent run) and pass number almost halved from 750 to about 420.
You seem to think that was a Garry Monk thing despite “the Swansea way” being heavily reliant on it.
You seemed to think it was an extremely low success rate. |
You seem to not realise that it's better game management late on in games, Burnley aside, that's resulted in improved results. Part of that may well be "getting rid" i.e. playing territory but that's not a 90min strategy that will generally end well. | | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 15:03 - Oct 20 with 771 views | vetchonian |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 14:31 - Oct 20 by ploppy |
You seem to not realise that it's better game management late on in games, Burnley aside, that's resulted in improved results. Part of that may well be "getting rid" i.e. playing territory but that's not a 90min strategy that will generally end well. |
I personally think there are a few things which have contributed, the better game management in the latter stages of games, inclusion of personnel such as Oli Cooper but all tied up with the shift in tactics and style.
We no longer seem to be passing the ball for passing sake, we tend not to "faff" about as much in front of our box .
We will all see things differently but there has been a change in approach form Martin, he seems now to be more flexible and adaptable to how he sets us out to play and this is evident by the results and we are now a better watch.
Long may it continue, if only some folks would actually agree there has been a change instead of advocating patience with the process has paid off then maybe others would be less vociferous in their arguments too.
I was one calling for Martins head if he continues as we are long may he remain | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 16:03 - Oct 20 with 760 views | onehunglow |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 15:03 - Oct 20 by vetchonian |
I personally think there are a few things which have contributed, the better game management in the latter stages of games, inclusion of personnel such as Oli Cooper but all tied up with the shift in tactics and style.
We no longer seem to be passing the ball for passing sake, we tend not to "faff" about as much in front of our box .
We will all see things differently but there has been a change in approach form Martin, he seems now to be more flexible and adaptable to how he sets us out to play and this is evident by the results and we are now a better watch.
Long may it continue, if only some folks would actually agree there has been a change instead of advocating patience with the process has paid off then maybe others would be less vociferous in their arguments too.
I was one calling for Martins head if he continues as we are long may he remain |
Disagree slightly as we still faff about To’o much. When we shoot at goal ,we score. | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 16:29 - Oct 20 with 739 views | KeithHaynes |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 15:03 - Oct 20 by vetchonian |
I personally think there are a few things which have contributed, the better game management in the latter stages of games, inclusion of personnel such as Oli Cooper but all tied up with the shift in tactics and style.
We no longer seem to be passing the ball for passing sake, we tend not to "faff" about as much in front of our box .
We will all see things differently but there has been a change in approach form Martin, he seems now to be more flexible and adaptable to how he sets us out to play and this is evident by the results and we are now a better watch.
Long may it continue, if only some folks would actually agree there has been a change instead of advocating patience with the process has paid off then maybe others would be less vociferous in their arguments too.
I was one calling for Martins head if he continues as we are long may he remain |
Personally for me my patience with Russell Martin is at this moment in time paying off. I see what we are doing with the same manager as a development of style which is now working nicely. As I’ve said before you can’t become an electrician in a month or a tank commander in a year. It takes time, hard work, discipline and application. To take a whole group of mostly young people along with you and then display that over time is admirable.
To develop you need the will to do so, to display application you need the ability to learn yourself and pass on your beliefs to others in a specific way that enthuses people. The manager has learned a lot and is in the midst of either carrying it on with a limited budget and playing staff or falling on his sword, which unbelievably some would still like to see.
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 19:26 - Oct 20 with 668 views | alltjack |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 16:29 - Oct 20 by KeithHaynes |
Personally for me my patience with Russell Martin is at this moment in time paying off. I see what we are doing with the same manager as a development of style which is now working nicely. As I’ve said before you can’t become an electrician in a month or a tank commander in a year. It takes time, hard work, discipline and application. To take a whole group of mostly young people along with you and then display that over time is admirable.
To develop you need the will to do so, to display application you need the ability to learn yourself and pass on your beliefs to others in a specific way that enthuses people. The manager has learned a lot and is in the midst of either carrying it on with a limited budget and playing staff or falling on his sword, which unbelievably some would still like to see.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Perfectly put | | | |
| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED on 19:33 - Oct 20 with 665 views | builthjack |
Well said. Unbelievable that some, a tiny minority, would love for him to fail. |  |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED on 19:52 - Oct 20 with 647 views | onehunglow |
| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED on 19:33 - Oct 20 by builthjack |
Well said. Unbelievable that some, a tiny minority, would love for him to fail. |
PLease.
You're not getting away with that
utter shyte | |
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| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED on 20:02 - Oct 20 with 643 views | Dr_Winston |
| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED on 19:33 - Oct 20 by builthjack |
Well said. Unbelievable that some, a tiny minority, would love for him to fail. |
I don't think that they're willing Martin to fail specifically.
They're either trolls, in which case the success or otherwise of the team is entirely irrelevant because they'd automatically swap to arguing the contrary no matter what happened, or they're just inconsequential, pathetic, lifeless losers who would be whining no matter who was in charge whilst revelling in misery and going AWOL when the team wins. [Post edited 20 Oct 2022 20:10]
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| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED on 20:37 - Oct 20 with 618 views | vetchonian |
| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED on 19:33 - Oct 20 by builthjack |
Well said. Unbelievable that some, a tiny minority, would love for him to fail. |
Name names, | |
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| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED on 20:40 - Oct 20 with 612 views | vetchonian |
| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED on 20:02 - Oct 20 by Dr_Winston |
I don't think that they're willing Martin to fail specifically.
They're either trolls, in which case the success or otherwise of the team is entirely irrelevant because they'd automatically swap to arguing the contrary no matter what happened, or they're just inconsequential, pathetic, lifeless losers who would be whining no matter who was in charge whilst revelling in misery and going AWOL when the team wins. [Post edited 20 Oct 2022 20:10]
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Its amazing how even when positive posts are put up still some want to antagonise!
SO who specifically goes AWOL when the team wins? | |
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| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED on 20:42 - Oct 20 with 611 views | onehunglow |
| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED on 20:37 - Oct 20 by vetchonian |
Name names, |
No need.
Builty is cruelly deluded and wrong .All fans prioritise the team above all else,that means players ,coaches,janitors and the stadium cat (No Offence )
We ve been having a good day then this garbage crops up to antagonise,as is obvious.
We are where we are.This is a new game.I hope we win and win well and Martin is seen doing fist pumps afterwards and we all bask in a little glory until the next game whereupon we will comment a propos what we see-if good ,we laud,if bad we bitch.
It's that simple | |
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| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED on 00:13 - Oct 21 with 541 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED on 20:02 - Oct 20 by Dr_Winston |
I don't think that they're willing Martin to fail specifically.
They're either trolls, in which case the success or otherwise of the team is entirely irrelevant because they'd automatically swap to arguing the contrary no matter what happened, or they're just inconsequential, pathetic, lifeless losers who would be whining no matter who was in charge whilst revelling in misery and going AWOL when the team wins. [Post edited 20 Oct 2022 20:10]
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Is everyone allowed to stoop to this level of abuse by the way?
Don’t want to keep banging the drum, but the level of abuse and goading on here is now becoming incredible.
Can you imagine if I said anything remotely like the above towards ‘certain others’.. the forum would go into meltdown and the pitchforks would be out in force.
I just don’t understand it. [Post edited 21 Oct 2022 0:15]
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| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED on 00:17 - Oct 21 with 538 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED on 20:37 - Oct 20 by vetchonian |
Name names, |
There aren’t any names, that’s why the accusations are always vague and cryptic.
There are designed to be antagonistic, not accurate. | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 00:29 - Oct 21 with 534 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 16:29 - Oct 20 by KeithHaynes |
Personally for me my patience with Russell Martin is at this moment in time paying off. I see what we are doing with the same manager as a development of style which is now working nicely. As I’ve said before you can’t become an electrician in a month or a tank commander in a year. It takes time, hard work, discipline and application. To take a whole group of mostly young people along with you and then display that over time is admirable.
To develop you need the will to do so, to display application you need the ability to learn yourself and pass on your beliefs to others in a specific way that enthuses people. The manager has learned a lot and is in the midst of either carrying it on with a limited budget and playing staff or falling on his sword, which unbelievably some would still like to see.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
He came to us as a manager already though, after being in the game for 20 years. Plenty of managers with far less experience in the game have been able to get to grips with the job immediately, or at least in a reasonable and acceptable amount of time.
Cooper finds himself in the Premier League now after 3 play off seasons before hand, he has managed for the same amount of time as Russell in club football and Russell has far more experience in the game as a whole.
The trouble with Russell is he came here thinking he knew everything, when in reality he knew very little. His knowledge of the game and powers of analysis have been nothing short of embarrassing since he arrived. The patience being called for was specifically to do with the style he brought here where people claimed “they could see what he was trying to do” - however that style has been unceremoniously scrapped.
Otherwise we could of course use that argument everywhere and sell Piroe and Obafemi and start Cullen saying “we can’t expect him to be a top striker overnight, he needs to learn”. But it’s just not how things should be done.
We saw from the training clip the depth of his football knowledge and tactical nous where it seemed the British football world were laughing at his schoolboy level knowledge and deluded arrogance. Who can forget the “eventually they will stop running” nonsense? I think the reaction to that and the drubbings we were getting may well have been the catalyst for him (or someone above him) to finally realise he’s been completely wrong with his devotion to his flawed style.
We should be nobody’s apprenticeship - Martinez, Cooper, Rodgers, Monk, Potter all had very little top level managerial experience and all managed to get results while subtly adapting on the job, there is a level of performance expected from a learning manager and he has fallen well short for far too long.
Before I get excited by our form and what lies ahead we need to hear from the horses mouth that the old way is dead, otherwise the threat of it rearing it’s god awful head is too much for me to be happy and trust the guy. Too much rubbish has passed under the bridge for it to be swept neatly under the carpet without a word of acknowledgment.
At the moment I feel like when Pippa was replaced in Home and Away with a completely new actress and I am expected to just not notice and carry on without any questions. That confused the hell out of 9 year old Dr P and I won’t have it happening again. 
On a serious note, he really needs to come out and be clear about this philosophy. I find the silence on it quite bizarre considering the mounds of discussion we heard about the old style. [Post edited 21 Oct 2022 1:02]
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