| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? 21:20 - Jul 28 with 25724 views | Swansea93 |
I appreciate the attempts last season of certain groups trying to start some chants and protests, and I'm not jumping the gun and being negative here, but since Huw said he'd step down if we were relegated and he's still here is abit of joke, he's hired Potter and hasn't given him any backing in the market as of yet and is clearly calling the shots still. When are we all actually going to get Jenkins out because I don't think we can 'rebuild' with him still here, how many fans are actually going to forgive him for the sh!te he's caused the last few years? With Andre Ayew leaving on loan is a prime example of how Huw has run the club the past few years, big money signings on big wages leaving for next to nothing. Yes we all appreciate what he and others did for the club all them years ago, but we've moved on since that and we're talking about now & the future which he has shat on.
Eder, Tabanou, Borja, Ayew, Bony, Clucas, Ngog, Mesa to name a few of his signings that have all cost a club of our size a fortune,not to mention the questionable decisions he's made e.g not bringing Allen back when he had the chance, handing out long contracts to squad players who weren't playing in the first team. He stated we'd learn from mistakes which they clearly havent it's the same old story every time, we start the season in 7 days and we have signed 1 player officially for the '1st team' and if we start off bad Potter is going to get the blame for this whilst Huw is tucked up in his directors box getting away with all the sh!t. |  |
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 13:47 - Jul 29 with 1412 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 13:43 - Jul 29 by MattG |
The question was hypothetical, predicated on Jenkins being replaced. |
So he is only able to know what is best for the club if he leaves?
That isn’t hypothetical it’s meaningless then. |  |
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 13:49 - Jul 29 with 1401 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 13:43 - Jul 29 by MattG |
So are you saying that, even if Jenkins was to say that he was stepping down and would help them in finding the right replacement, they would ignore him and do whatever they wanted regardless?
If they weren't prepared to take his advice on something as crucial as this, you have to wonder what purpose he is serving. |
Im not saying anything, I have no idea what they would do. History suggests it won’t be particularly fruitful however.
If you don’t believe they trust his influence then he, by the same notion, probably isn’t to blame for the decisions then is he? | |
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 13:51 - Jul 29 with 1400 views | MattG |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 13:47 - Jul 29 by E20Jack |
So he is only able to know what is best for the club if he leaves?
That isn’t hypothetical it’s meaningless then. |
You were the one that asked the question about what happens if Jenkins leaves.
My suggestion. in response to your question, was that, to ensure the best replacement, he could assist with the search.
The only thing rendered meaningless by his (or the Yanks') decision that he should stay is your question. Hence why it was hypothetical. |  | | |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 13:55 - Jul 29 with 1385 views | MattG |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 13:49 - Jul 29 by E20Jack |
Im not saying anything, I have no idea what they would do. History suggests it won’t be particularly fruitful however.
If you don’t believe they trust his influence then he, by the same notion, probably isn’t to blame for the decisions then is he? |
Hang on, you were the one who mentioned Bradley, not me. The inference being that it was the Yanks who brought him in, presumably regardless of the strong objections that we are led to believe Jenkins made to that appointment.
If they are ones that decide (as you state) then what is the benefit of Jenkins remaining in post? | | | |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 13:56 - Jul 29 with 1381 views | MattG |
Oh, and on the definition of "context", here's the OED's take on it :
"The circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood." | | | |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 13:58 - Jul 29 with 1373 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 13:51 - Jul 29 by MattG |
You were the one that asked the question about what happens if Jenkins leaves.
My suggestion. in response to your question, was that, to ensure the best replacement, he could assist with the search.
The only thing rendered meaningless by his (or the Yanks') decision that he should stay is your question. Hence why it was hypothetical. |
Yes I was. I didn’t mention influence, you did.
Your response is based on nothing. First of all we have no history of Jenkins appointing people in that role to know if it is even helpful or even if that is a scenario that would unfold.
My question was simple. What do you expect to be the alternative and why do you feel it would be better. I asked you to be honest and realistic in the answer. | |
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:05 - Jul 29 with 1359 views | Phil_S |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 13:35 - Jul 29 by E20Jack |
Not compulsory, but certainly helpful.
Let’s look at who they have appointed in their other sports clubs. Does it suggest they are good at appointing such figures?
So we need to have a realistic idea of the alternative before trying to force the situation. So far, I haven’t heard one realistic or feasible alternative.
Salary does not guarantee success. |
Actually its not helpful at all
The rest of it you have just spouted a load of words that have no relevance to the point that I made.
I have had my say, my point has been made. I don't have the desire or need to keep making it in the hope that the person the other end gives up. |  | | |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:05 - Jul 29 with 1355 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 13:56 - Jul 29 by MattG |
Oh, and on the definition of "context", here's the OED's take on it :
"The circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood." |
you are confusing context outlining reasoning - not meaning.
Again, if Peter Crouch was in poor goalscoring form and he was asked if your poor form continues would you retire and he says “yes”... would that mean that an automatic time frame of “until the end of the season” comes into it?
Even if the question followed up was “will you retire if you don’t score by the end of the season” and he gave a less certain answer which of course was “I would consider it”.
The situation would be he has had a poor goalscoring season, this does not dictate the question or the answer. It gives reason for the question and the reason for the answer - not the meaning behind either. | |
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:08 - Jul 29 with 1348 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:05 - Jul 29 by Phil_S |
Actually its not helpful at all
The rest of it you have just spouted a load of words that have no relevance to the point that I made.
I have had my say, my point has been made. I don't have the desire or need to keep making it in the hope that the person the other end gives up. |
Well it is your opinion that it is not helpful, common sense suggests the opposite of course, which is not a foreign concept when you tend to get involved in these sorts of debates for reasons only you can answer.
Yes the rest of my post is words. Well observed. Words explaining that in order to force a change then knowing the likely alternative is probably a useful thought. You obviously feel personally betrayed by him but you need to seperate your emotions from what is best for the club.
Your point has been made yes, not very well, but made all the same. It’s a shame you find debate hard to stomach considering you run a football forum.
Your prerogative. [Post edited 29 Jul 2018 14:10]
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:12 - Jul 29 with 1340 views | londonlisa2001 |
If we accept the premise that relegation from the premier league is inevitable for a club like us, the only possible measure of success is whether a club’s stay in the premier league (however long that may be) is used to improve the long term financial position of the club. Does it provide an improvement in financial security.
Our financial position as a club is massively inferior to the position we were in just before promotion to the premier league.
Massively.
So the premier league years were grossly mismanaged. The person in charge of that mismanagement has to be held responsible for that. That’s Jenkins.
It’s what happens in every single assessment of every single company. Is the position at any given point within a CEO’s tenure better than the position at the start. If not. He’s been a failure. And he’d be sacked.
Jenkins should go.
It really is that simple. | | | |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:14 - Jul 29 with 1327 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:12 - Jul 29 by londonlisa2001 |
If we accept the premise that relegation from the premier league is inevitable for a club like us, the only possible measure of success is whether a club’s stay in the premier league (however long that may be) is used to improve the long term financial position of the club. Does it provide an improvement in financial security.
Our financial position as a club is massively inferior to the position we were in just before promotion to the premier league.
Massively.
So the premier league years were grossly mismanaged. The person in charge of that mismanagement has to be held responsible for that. That’s Jenkins.
It’s what happens in every single assessment of every single company. Is the position at any given point within a CEO’s tenure better than the position at the start. If not. He’s been a failure. And he’d be sacked.
Jenkins should go.
It really is that simple. |
It is nowhere near that simple.
As you know. | |
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:15 - Jul 29 with 1325 views | Phil_S |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:08 - Jul 29 by E20Jack |
Well it is your opinion that it is not helpful, common sense suggests the opposite of course, which is not a foreign concept when you tend to get involved in these sorts of debates for reasons only you can answer.
Yes the rest of my post is words. Well observed. Words explaining that in order to force a change then knowing the likely alternative is probably a useful thought. You obviously feel personally betrayed by him but you need to seperate your emotions from what is best for the club.
Your point has been made yes, not very well, but made all the same. It’s a shame you find debate hard to stomach considering you run a football forum.
Your prerogative. [Post edited 29 Jul 2018 14:10]
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OK Dim. Have a good afternoon
Watch them leaps, sometimes you may not make them for the full distance. | | | |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:17 - Jul 29 with 1317 views | londonlisa2001 |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:14 - Jul 29 by E20Jack |
It is nowhere near that simple.
As you know. |
Yes, it is.
Which is why I said it was.
His period within the premier league has been a massive failure in the context of ‘inevitable relegation’ (your words). As we are financially far weaker now than we were in 2011.
He’s a lot richer of course. | | | |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:17 - Jul 29 with 1314 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:15 - Jul 29 by Phil_S |
OK Dim. Have a good afternoon
Watch them leaps, sometimes you may not make them for the full distance. |
I have not a single clue what that means Daz.
You are letting your emotions rule your head. It’s obvious.
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:22 - Jul 29 with 1292 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:17 - Jul 29 by londonlisa2001 |
Yes, it is.
Which is why I said it was.
His period within the premier league has been a massive failure in the context of ‘inevitable relegation’ (your words). As we are financially far weaker now than we were in 2011.
He’s a lot richer of course. |
No, it isn’t.
Regardless if you said it was or not.
His tenure in the Premier League has been an overwhelming success. When looking at football clubs era you look at success and trophies, not balance sheets. It has a different set of criteria of success than other companies which is why it is disingenuous to compare them.
The club is now set up in a much better situation for future longer term financially sound footing with the academy and training facilities. We also have players with registration value which of sold would put us in a much healthier position - the thing you were arguing not so long ago. It is completely normal after such a relegation. | |
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:33 - Jul 29 with 1272 views | londonlisa2001 |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:22 - Jul 29 by E20Jack |
No, it isn’t.
Regardless if you said it was or not.
His tenure in the Premier League has been an overwhelming success. When looking at football clubs era you look at success and trophies, not balance sheets. It has a different set of criteria of success than other companies which is why it is disingenuous to compare them.
The club is now set up in a much better situation for future longer term financially sound footing with the academy and training facilities. We also have players with registration value which of sold would put us in a much healthier position - the thing you were arguing not so long ago. It is completely normal after such a relegation. |
Two days ago you were arguing that Laudrup had to go because his policies were damaging the long term financial position of the club.
Now you’re arguing that it’s trophies that matter.
So it’s financial position for the team manager and on the field success for the Chairman?
Make up your mind.
Your last paragraph is factually incorrect.
I didn’t argue that player registration values made us better than they were in 2011, I argued that it made us better than the figures being presented by Shaky. They are worse than in 2011. By a mile.
That’s not the same thing.
And the value of the training and academy facilities is far outweighed by the drop in asset value of the club during that time.
I’m not certain you understand the finances at all. | | | |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:36 - Jul 29 with 1256 views | waynekerr55 |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:17 - Jul 29 by londonlisa2001 |
Yes, it is.
Which is why I said it was.
His period within the premier league has been a massive failure in the context of ‘inevitable relegation’ (your words). As we are financially far weaker now than we were in 2011.
He’s a lot richer of course. |
Crikey, our finances weren't great that year if my memory serves me correctly. We wouldn't have been able to renew a load of contracts.
We really are up the creak without a paddle then. |  |
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:43 - Jul 29 with 1242 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:33 - Jul 29 by londonlisa2001 |
Two days ago you were arguing that Laudrup had to go because his policies were damaging the long term financial position of the club.
Now you’re arguing that it’s trophies that matter.
So it’s financial position for the team manager and on the field success for the Chairman?
Make up your mind.
Your last paragraph is factually incorrect.
I didn’t argue that player registration values made us better than they were in 2011, I argued that it made us better than the figures being presented by Shaky. They are worse than in 2011. By a mile.
That’s not the same thing.
And the value of the training and academy facilities is far outweighed by the drop in asset value of the club during that time.
I’m not certain you understand the finances at all. |
No I wasn’t. Context again Lisa.
I wasn’t arguing for a start, and secondly I was making the point that the circumstances surrounding the Laudrup era was set up for the short term, which they clearly were. It is also something I clearly stated that I wouldn’t take back due to the short term success it brought. Read it again maybe? It was not a complaint, it was a reason why we shouldn’t long for that approach as it won’t last long.
Of course they are worse, we have been in the Premier League for 7 years and have had the costs incurred with such a remarkable feat. Just like any other club our size would. That is being a victim of our own success.
You have no idea what the value of the training facilities and academy are worth to the club. They are immeasurable at this point. You are talking about bricks and mortar - which of course is a naive disingenuous and simplistic way to look at the value of a football academy and training ground and what it can bring.
When I asked you a simple question regarding your accusations regarding Cliff Richard you quickly backed down citing you did not want to enter a conversation, now you do. You need to make up your mind as that conversation was half finished too. Can we finish that one too? It’s hard to know where we stand in fair discourse when your views change depending on who holds the opposite view in that particular point in time. [Post edited 29 Jul 2018 14:46]
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:52 - Jul 29 with 1220 views | TheResurrection |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:05 - Jul 29 by Phil_S |
Actually its not helpful at all
The rest of it you have just spouted a load of words that have no relevance to the point that I made.
I have had my say, my point has been made. I don't have the desire or need to keep making it in the hope that the person the other end gives up. |
Truth is that replacing him is as big a gamble as keeping him and the money he's on now would probably not be on offer for a replacement.
E20 makes perfect sense, there's little benefit being pithy disagreeing with him if you've got no clear plan or sight of what the future would look like with someone else. |  |
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:54 - Jul 29 with 1204 views | TheResurrection |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:17 - Jul 29 by londonlisa2001 |
Yes, it is.
Which is why I said it was.
His period within the premier league has been a massive failure in the context of ‘inevitable relegation’ (your words). As we are financially far weaker now than we were in 2011.
He’s a lot richer of course. |
How are we? We're only a few extremely valuable players being sold away from being in just as good, if not a much better position. | |
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:59 - Jul 29 with 1187 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:52 - Jul 29 by TheResurrection |
Truth is that replacing him is as big a gamble as keeping him and the money he's on now would probably not be on offer for a replacement.
E20 makes perfect sense, there's little benefit being pithy disagreeing with him if you've got no clear plan or sight of what the future would look like with someone else. |
They are being pithy and obtuse because of the username, combined with a personal dislike for the subject matter - nothing more. A dangerous concoction for a cohesive thread though unfortunately.
As you say, I am hardly stating something shocking. Perfect sense.
If you want to get rid of someone then you better have a damn good idea what the alternative ids
Ask the yanks if they had their time again, would they have planned the removal of Saddam a bit better, because his alternative was far worse for them. | |
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 15:06 - Jul 29 with 1163 views | TheResurrection |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:59 - Jul 29 by E20Jack |
They are being pithy and obtuse because of the username, combined with a personal dislike for the subject matter - nothing more. A dangerous concoction for a cohesive thread though unfortunately.
As you say, I am hardly stating something shocking. Perfect sense.
If you want to get rid of someone then you better have a damn good idea what the alternative ids
Ask the yanks if they had their time again, would they have planned the removal of Saddam a bit better, because his alternative was far worse for them. |
They clearly are mate and there's no need for it.
It happens all the time on this site. | |
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 15:12 - Jul 29 with 1150 views | E20Jack |
It was actually a pretty decent thread until some of the usual lot appeared with their undertones and personal disingenuous agendas. At least Matt and 247 seemed to honestly hold the opposite view and debated them as they should.
It would be great if we could get it back on topic and a fairer tone. I am sure we are all bored of this tittle tattle we have seen in the last few days and frankly some should know better.
So, what is the likely scenario should Jenkins be replaced?
Not what you want to happen, remember. What is the likely scenario? in your opinion.
For what it’s worth I think it would be Pearlman doing the day to day stuff with someone like Landon Donovan as football advisor. So in a shootout between Chris Pearlman and all the trappings that come with that - and Huw Jenkins, personal feelings aside - the best choice for the club is clear. [Post edited 29 Jul 2018 15:17]
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| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 15:27 - Jul 29 with 1108 views | londonlisa2001 |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:43 - Jul 29 by E20Jack |
No I wasn’t. Context again Lisa.
I wasn’t arguing for a start, and secondly I was making the point that the circumstances surrounding the Laudrup era was set up for the short term, which they clearly were. It is also something I clearly stated that I wouldn’t take back due to the short term success it brought. Read it again maybe? It was not a complaint, it was a reason why we shouldn’t long for that approach as it won’t last long.
Of course they are worse, we have been in the Premier League for 7 years and have had the costs incurred with such a remarkable feat. Just like any other club our size would. That is being a victim of our own success.
You have no idea what the value of the training facilities and academy are worth to the club. They are immeasurable at this point. You are talking about bricks and mortar - which of course is a naive disingenuous and simplistic way to look at the value of a football academy and training ground and what it can bring.
When I asked you a simple question regarding your accusations regarding Cliff Richard you quickly backed down citing you did not want to enter a conversation, now you do. You need to make up your mind as that conversation was half finished too. Can we finish that one too? It’s hard to know where we stand in fair discourse when your views change depending on who holds the opposite view in that particular point in time. [Post edited 29 Jul 2018 14:46]
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How much would it cost to replicate them can be measured by how much it cost to put them in place or how much it would cost to put them in place now. We can’t ‘sell them’ to anyone else, so it’s the only value that is relevant.
‘Arguing for something’ doesn’t mean having an argument by the way. It’s reasonable to use standard English on a forum.
Glad you admit that our position is worse than it was. I agree.
As for Cliff Richard - I’m pretty certain he’s not relevant to Jenkins’ position. But I chose not to share information with you. As it happens I did share that information with others on that thread in private. My views don’t change depending on who I am speaking with. My decision to share information or not may do. | | | |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 15:29 - Jul 29 with 1103 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:05 - Jul 29 by Phil_S |
Actually its not helpful at all
The rest of it you have just spouted a load of words that have no relevance to the point that I made.
I have had my say, my point has been made. I don't have the desire or need to keep making it in the hope that the person the other end gives up. |
Fair play , your last paragraph describes E20's posting methods to a tee . Dammit, I'm proud of you Sumbler. |  |
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