Forum | Can we have some reasoned debate please? by paulredf58

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Can we have some reasoned debate please? 17:00 - Mar 2 with 3762 views

I come to Ramzone to read contributions that have some thought and some understanding of the difficulty of building a club. When I want to read comments by wrist slashers. WUMs and serial moaners, I go on other sites because sometimes they make me laugh with their crass stupdity.
But recently all I'm reading here on this site are similar comments - Clough is useless, the Board are skinflints, certain players couldn't kick their way out of a paperbag. It's becoming a deluge of misery and negativity.
My view is that things are steadily improving - we have a young and enthusiastic team, our youth team has just beaten the millionaires of Man CIty, we are in no danger of becoming insolvent and doing a Portsmouth and some of the football I've watched this season has been the best for a very long time and certainly much more enjoyable than watching the MoTD feature of Manure (which I now avoid watching). Yes - I would like us to be pushing for top six, but I think that will happen next season not this.
So am I swimming against the tide by being mildly and quietly hopeful that we are on the right course?

Can we have some reasoned debate please? on 03:04 - Mar 3 with 3756 views

premierclass

I cannot see how the view that we are improving can be sustained. The team being "young" is not an improvement in itself. The evidence is to the contrary. We are in a run of very poor results since January. The chances of matching last season's points total are slim to say the least. The debt of the club has risen by 50% in 2 years. The young stars may not be with us next season. Unfortunately we may still have a manger who regards Connor Sammon as a footballer, and whose record in recruiting strikers has been lamentable Tyson? Robinson?
If you have watched "some of the best football for some years" then you have clearly viewed matches from Pride Park alone.
Football message boards reflect what is happening on the pitch and comments on Ramzone are no different. Fans who have parted with substantial sums to watch the games in the Championship will not be satisfied with the Youth team having a good cup run.
As a start to a reasoned debate we need a bit more evidence for your claim of steady improvement.

Can we have some reasoned debate please? on 14:37 - Mar 3 with 3742 views

davram

Can we have some reasoned debate please? on 03:04 - Mar 3 by premierclass

I think that quite a few fans who do actually attend Rams games will be optimistic and feel that some progress has been made, but this is always likely to be measured in relative terms against other teams in the Championship that are now challenging or have long since gone on to greater things whilst Derby "rebuild".

We know that Cardiff & Leicester are ambitious and will probably challenge at the top end of the table until one or both reach the Premier League. It's their problem to maintain it, and we certainly didn't last time around after promotion.

Cardiff have set the pace, with Watford, Hull, Palace, Leicester, Brighton, Boro, Forest & Leeds all either in touch or in the play-offs frame; some of these clubs have had mighty upheavals in the last couple of years or so. Derby is relatively stable, so how come we're stuck behind them all?

Unfortunately, we have even seen the "new" (old) manager effect on the Trees; they have chopped & changed their team management this season, and they've had a few good recent results whilst Derby have stuttered generally and been largely pointless this year on their travels - so are now where many Derby fans feel we should be - challenging for a play-off place.

We've got a new starlet in Will Hughes, arguably asked to carry too much of a burden before his injury; Jeff Hendrick has developed and played some excellent games. Legdzins has done well, Keogh, Bryson, Coutts, & Jacobs too, in patches. Brayford is our rock - but will he and some of these others stay at an average Championship club? What grade of player will replace any or all of them?

Ward's 3-month absence has cost us points, and since his return we still don't really see a consistently effective strike force/pairing, and the hard luck stories after games about conceding soft goals and missing chances are very familiar.

Our season - at the end of February - appears to have no purpose now, apart from blooding more youngsters.Add in the recent season ticket fiasco, and it's perhaps understandable that there are some expressions of disappointment and frustration amongst fans in general.

As Paulred advises, fans' postings on other independent sites are often more extreme and can betray a lack of ability to grasp the overall picture at DCFC, but as one who cheered Ol' Big 'Ead & Mr. Taylor to their Derby triumphs, and has kept the faith, I'm sad and frustrated at the prolonged "so near, so far" situation that applies to our beloved club.

I'll say it again - over to you, Mr. Rush!

[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]

Can we have some reasoned debate please? on 15:55 - Mar 3 with 3736 views

paulredf58

I agree with a lot of what Davram says. Like him, I cheered in the days of Clough and Taylor, those were thrilling afternoons and nights. I also cheered when we went up and I stood aghast at the aftermath. That's why I think we are steadily improving rather than treading water. The club then had no youth system (neither Davies nor Jewell believed in young players), the finances were dire, the squad was bloated beyond belief and full of players who couldn't give a toss whether they lost or not. The squad we have now work their socks off, and compared to last year, we have far more possession and we play better football and the youngsters are still maturing. Yes, it's akin to watching paint dry and I think for Clough this is the real test. He's rebuilt the squad, he's created a terrific team spirit and in the last international break, something like 9 or 10 went off to their respective countries. Now can he improve on this? To get us into the play-off spots, he needs to. And he may need to spend some real money to make that happen - so once again I agree with davram - over to you Mr Rush.

Can we have some reasoned debate please? on 18:19 - Mar 3 with 3730 views

owderrammy

When it comes to effort (110%) I cannot fault the current squad, but when it comes to ball-playing ability I am afraid we are below par. I have watched the Rams for 55 years and until this season I have never, repeat NEVER, watched Derby play 90 minutes without a shot at goal or the oppositions goalkeeper having to make a save. Were you at the Blackburn cup tie paulredf58?

Can we have some reasoned debate please? on 18:41 - Mar 3 with 3728 views

pkay_brum

Can we have some reasoned debate please? on 18:19 - Mar 3 by owderrammy
When it comes to effort (110%) I cannot fault the current squad, but when it comes to ball-playing ability I am afraid we are below par. I have watched the Rams for 55 years and until this season I have never, repeat NEVER, watched Derby play 90 minutes without a shot at goal or the oppositions goalkeeper having to make a save. Were you at the Blackburn cup tie paulredf58?

I'm wondering if 'reasoned debate' is conditional upon acceptance of a perennial Championship 'treadwater' existence, whilst better-resourced teams go about their business of challenging for promotion season-on-season?

We've got some good young players - a couple of excellent ones - and an average Championship squad that works its nuts off with a manager that celebrates a goodly chunk of possession and (sometimes) sufficient good possession near the opponent's danger area to win 2 or 3 matches in the post-game analyses.

The lack of ruthlessness up front, end-product in the opposing penalty area and sufficient vigilance and strength in our own area just makes us a team to tolerate as a habit, or admire for some qualities, rather than celebrate.

Opponents certainly appreciate facing a footballing side that cannot damage them or won't kick them off the pitch - the Rams are ideal opponents, and they obligingly let other clubs fight it out for the spoils at the end of every season.

Good old Derby!

Trouble is, the bottom clubs have closed the gap and the consistent clubs have marched past us. Maybe the season is not over but we certainly don't want the tension of a points' scrabble to secure our usual anonymous mid-table spot, do we?

We do have a great club with a good set-up and huge potential, but we've been on the launch-pad too long for supporter patience to last forever, especially after the huge season-ticket PR gaffe that blighted Mr Rush's arrival.

There's always next season - but it will be a critical one for owner and manager IMHO, it's delivery time, gentlemen....

Can we have some reasoned debate please? on 02:03 - Mar 10 with 3662 views

premierclass

Can we have some reasoned debate please? on 18:41 - Mar 3 by pkay_brum

The over to you Mr Rush point is overstated.

The manager has to take repsonsibility. Who chose to sign Keogh and Sammon - what bargains they seem to be now! Or twelve months earlier who signed Tyson? Or who signed Shackell only to get rid and replace him with the inferior Keogh after just 12 months?

It is only the emergence of young players that has saved us from being in a relegation scrap, though it may yet come rather close.

Can we have some reasoned debate please? on 11:26 - Mar 10 with 3654 views

owderrammy

People keep saying DCFC are standing still or going nowhere. The only difference I have with those opinions are that yes, we are moving, but in the wrong direction. Despite the rhetoric about us being a big club, I say any club is only as big as the ability of it's 1st team which in my opinion currently puts us somewhere between 18th and 20th in the Championship. We are continually beaten after a good first 45 minutes because we cannot defend and cannot last a full match. And Why? To be blunt our manager is not good enough. He only has a plan A and when other managers change their tactics at half time he cannot respond with a plan B or even freshen up the side before 75 or 80 minutes. He is so predictable it is laughable. If you add to this his deplorable record of signing poor players I can see only one result under his aegis next season.....relegation. Yes the old chestnut of truthfully quoting what a good family man he is gets rolled out at intervals but then so is Billy Davis.
Sorry for being despondent but under our American owners and the current manager I see no sunshine rising over the horizon.

Can we have some reasoned debate please? on 12:29 - Mar 10 with 3650 views

Rabbram10

Well said Owder, that's it summed up in a nutshell?
We r going backwards under the present owners & naive management team, who appear to see a different team than us Fans can see!!
Clough has now said quote "more experienced payers would have won that game from 1 0 up" yes Nigel were r they & were is the 15 to 20 goals a year striker u promised us three seasons ago, we're still waiting on that one??????!!!!!!!

Can we have some reasoned debate please? on 22:54 - Mar 11 with 3623 views

pkay_brum

Can we have some reasoned debate please? on 12:29 - Mar 10 by Rabbram10

I'm not mildly and quietly hopeful myself that we'll be in the top six this time next season, unless we get investment in a deeper, more experienced and combative squad.

Very possibly at this rate, a change of management or even ownership could be on the horizon if we continue to plod then plummet by turn, every ruddy season....

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