| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? 07:25 - Jan 30 with 31780 views | Glyn1 |
And why, exactly?
Controversial Jack, but who else?
From CJ : "Appears that it could only be 70% effective and not 90% , and none of those in the trial given the low dosage were over 55. Given that many won't have the vaccine and it's effectiveness is just 70% it's going to be a crock of shit."
[Post edited 30 Jan 2021 7:28]
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| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 11:26 - Feb 1 with 1220 views | jackrmee |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 20:33 - Jan 31 by Flashberryjack |
And I'm not having a go at you mate, but if you can't understand the need of a vaccine in a pandemic, and the necessity to have the vast majority of the population immunised.
Or, you fail to understand why, the people that worked so hard to produce it (not to mention Doctors/Nurses overwhelmed by covid victims in intensive car units) would feel a little disappointed on hearing that some of the population are refusing to take it, then I'm afraid I don't have the knowledge or inclination to enlighten you further. |
Immunised is the wrong word surely?
People think they are immune after the vaccine. That is not true. Right? |  |
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| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 11:28 - Feb 1 with 1216 views | jackrmee |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 20:26 - Jan 31 by Scotia |
It's not a vaccine to reduce the implications of the virus. It's to stop you getting symptoms to start off with. Reducing illness is another benefit that is caused by the vaccine already triggering an immune response that is triggered again if you get infected.
Jonathan Van Tam said in his most recent press conference "its not if it reduces transmission, it is a question of how much"
I assume the transmisibility is affected by viral load, for instance if you have covid and cough everywhere because you haven't had the vaccine you'll spread it everywhere.
If you have the vaccine and still get infected but the vaccine reduces your viral load and symptoms (so you aren't coughing) you aren't going to spread it anywhere near as much.
I'm not an expert but have read lots about this topic, it seems to be common sense to me but happy to be corrected. |
Not really, because if you get symptoms, you should be isolating, so coughing due to the virus shouldn't be done in public.
If you are following the rules, it's surely safer to get symptoms and then isolate, rather than not have symptoms, think you are fine and go about your every day life? | |
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| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 11:29 - Feb 1 with 1211 views | jackrmee |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 20:14 - Jan 31 by Scotia |
It stops people getting the virus and passing it on.
The worst case scenario is if you get vaccinated but still get the virus you are almost certain not to get severely ill.
So in the worst case scenario, you aren't being a burden on the NHS, you aren't taking up a bed someone else could use, you aren't being treated by a nurse head to foot in uncomfortable PPE and your family won't have to speak to you through facetime.
In the best case scenario you won't potentially kill other people. |
it doesn't stop people from getting the virus or passing it on though. Does it?
I thought it relieves symptoms, but does not stop you from passing it on. | |
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| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 11:30 - Feb 1 with 1206 views | jackrmee |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 18:22 - Jan 31 by pencoedjack |
It does concern me that some selfish person puts my loved ones at a higher risk of catching COVID because they don’t want to have a vaccine.
As I said I hope some establishments deny entry to those who refuse the vaccine.
Horrid or not ( & I will repeat it) I hope those who are selfish enough not to have a vaccine are the ones who catch it & are denied a bed over somebody who has tried everything to stay out of hospital. |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the vaccine does not stop people from catching the virus.
It sounds to me that the people who take the vaccine are then thinking that they are immune, or that they have now protected their loved ones and they can't catch it.
This is totally wrong.
Surely these people are more risky to their loved ones, as they think they are safe, when they are clearly more dangerous than someone with full blown symptoms, as the vaccinated person is still passing on the virus, but because their symptoms are not there, they don't even realise.
They go to work thinking they are immune, or that they cannot pass it on to others and are then less vigilnt with their masks, cleaning or when being around others.
There's not just one side to this, with people who refuse the vaccine being bad. | |
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| Who is going to refust protect to be vaccinated? on 11:31 - Feb 1 with 1205 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Who is going to refust protect to be vaccinated? on 07:36 - Feb 1 by Scotia |
I have.
Have you got any links to prove your point? Not that I'm sure what it is. |
I posted a link to an expert which you chose to totally ignore.
As you always do.
Perhaps you have a counter argument to her concerns, which a lot of doctors have as well? |  | | |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 11:32 - Feb 1 with 1205 views | jackrmee |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 21:52 - Jan 31 by Professor |
Is the right answer. If I want to go to Brazil or Ethiopia I have to have yellow fever vaccination. They don’t want it, so need that assurance |
But the covid vaccine doesn't stop other people getting it from you.
Maybe the yellow fever one does? | |
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| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 11:33 - Feb 1 with 1205 views | jackrmee |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 21:47 - Jan 31 by Catullus |
Thanks for the backup earlier Prof, glad I was mostly right.
Fireboy, my missus had the jab and she had a few side effects but they were the hangover ones, headache, felt a bit rubbish. Nothing too serious and they lasted 2 days.
It's a massive puzzle to me, never mind if it doesn't stop transmission, why anybody would want to take a chance on catching it and being seriously ill is beyond me.
One of the links I posted, a 46 year old fitness fanatic, he died of covid. The other link was younger people. If anyone wants to covid gamble with their own life then fine, it's their choice but please don't gamble with other peoples lives. |
If it doesn't stop transmission, what would be the point in me taking it?
I would prefer to get it naturally and let my body deal with it in it's own way, naturally. If it makes me feel a bit worse then so be it. I'll stay in bed like I did with the flu. I will stay away from people and isolate fully.
Maybe my symptoms would be a bit worse, but I would have fought the virus naturally. Much better.
Maybe I'm gambling with my life, but how on earth would this approach harm anyone else? | |
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| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 11:33 - Feb 1 with 1204 views | jackrmee |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 10:53 - Feb 1 by Catullus |
That's the puzzle, masks was about protecting others but the vaccine is more about protecting yourself.
Why do people want to risk their health?
Hundreds of thousands have had the vaccination, are we seeing mass deaths from it or any significant problems?
If people were keeling over in droves or being otherwise severely ill after having their jab I could understand it. My wife had her jab approximately 6 weeks back and she's fine. |
exactly mate, so if it's to protect ourselves, why are others concerned if someone takes it or not? | |
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| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 11:38 - Feb 1 with 1188 views | Professor |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 11:33 - Feb 1 by jackrmee |
If it doesn't stop transmission, what would be the point in me taking it?
I would prefer to get it naturally and let my body deal with it in it's own way, naturally. If it makes me feel a bit worse then so be it. I'll stay in bed like I did with the flu. I will stay away from people and isolate fully.
Maybe my symptoms would be a bit worse, but I would have fought the virus naturally. Much better.
Maybe I'm gambling with my life, but how on earth would this approach harm anyone else? |
Because it almost certainly does reduce transmission. Measuring transmission in a trial or experiment without a good infection model is very difficult-we need the epidemiological data from vaccinated people to begin to understand this. What the data from Israel (highest levels of vaccination) is that this is case and perhaps more than anticipated. | | | |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 11:44 - Feb 1 with 1181 views | jackrmee |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 11:38 - Feb 1 by Professor |
Because it almost certainly does reduce transmission. Measuring transmission in a trial or experiment without a good infection model is very difficult-we need the epidemiological data from vaccinated people to begin to understand this. What the data from Israel (highest levels of vaccination) is that this is case and perhaps more than anticipated. |
So is this the case with the flu vaccine too yeah? | |
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| Who is going to refust protect to be vaccinated? on 11:49 - Feb 1 with 1174 views | Professor |
| Who is going to refust protect to be vaccinated? on 11:31 - Feb 1 by A_Fans_Dad |
I posted a link to an expert which you chose to totally ignore.
As you always do.
Perhaps you have a counter argument to her concerns, which a lot of doctors have as well? |
Dolores Cahill is NOT an infectious disease expert. She is very based around methods for studying proteins. She is heavily involved in right-wing, eurosceptic politics. UCD has more or less disowned here and she is pretty much a pariah in Irish science. A gobshite media whore like Sikora, Gupta and Henneghan. | | | |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:04 - Feb 1 with 1147 views | Scotia |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 11:29 - Feb 1 by jackrmee |
it doesn't stop people from getting the virus or passing it on though. Does it?
I thought it relieves symptoms, but does not stop you from passing it on. |
Yes it does. We don't really know to what extent yet though. | | | |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:05 - Feb 1 with 1145 views | onehunglow |
1962 saw this country with a serious smallpox outbreak.
People were pleased to have it.Now it seems we are more sophisticated and question the efficacy of such vaccines.
And we have progressed? | |
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| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:06 - Feb 1 with 1145 views | Scotia |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 11:28 - Feb 1 by jackrmee |
Not really, because if you get symptoms, you should be isolating, so coughing due to the virus shouldn't be done in public.
If you are following the rules, it's surely safer to get symptoms and then isolate, rather than not have symptoms, think you are fine and go about your every day life? |
The same would apply to asymptomatic cases though too. If you don't have symptoms but go somewhere like a restaurant, you could be exhaling less virus when vaccinated than if you weren't vaccinated. | | | |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:07 - Feb 1 with 1144 views | Scotia |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 11:44 - Feb 1 by jackrmee |
So is this the case with the flu vaccine too yeah? |
Yes. That's why children get the flu vaccine too. | | | |
| Who is going to refust protect to be vaccinated? on 12:09 - Feb 1 with 1143 views | Scotia |
| Who is going to refust protect to be vaccinated? on 11:31 - Feb 1 by A_Fans_Dad |
I posted a link to an expert which you chose to totally ignore.
As you always do.
Perhaps you have a counter argument to her concerns, which a lot of doctors have as well? |
I don't ignore the links to your "experts". They usually make me chuckle.
I have missed that one though. | | | |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:15 - Feb 1 with 1137 views | Scotia |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 11:19 - Jan 31 by A_Fans_Dad |
If you think it is safe, good for you, I admire your confidence or is it faith in big Pharma. I truly hope it is not misplaced.
I would suggest that you research it just a bit more though, look up antibody dependent enhancement (ADE)
There are many scientific papers on the subject.
This is apparently what killed the Ferrets vaccinated against SARS COVID 1 and stopped it's introduction.
It is not limited to SARS or mRNA, it has happened with other vaccines as well, but with less deadly results obviously.
You should also look at vaccine hypersensitivity. (VAH)
As you know Pregnant women are advised not to have the vaccination due to spontaneous abortion concerns.
They are also advised not to get pregnant for 2 months after the having the vaccine.
The fear about infertility is due to mRNA mimicking COVID in the long term and attacking the Placenta.
Of course all the doctors and scientists raising these concerns are nut cases and conspiracy theorists etc etc.
Like Professor Delores Cahill
https://people.ucd.ie/dolores.cahill
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/01/no_author/horrific-latent-deaths-predicted-a [Post edited 31 Jan 2021 11:20]
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https://fullfact.org/online/placenta-protein-vaccine/
I see your discredited "Professor of Translational Science" and raise you a couple of actual virologists. [Post edited 1 Feb 2021 12:18]
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| Who is going to refust protect to be vaccinated? on 12:17 - Feb 1 with 1135 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Who is going to refust protect to be vaccinated? on 11:49 - Feb 1 by Professor |
Dolores Cahill is NOT an infectious disease expert. She is very based around methods for studying proteins. She is heavily involved in right-wing, eurosceptic politics. UCD has more or less disowned here and she is pretty much a pariah in Irish science. A gobshite media whore like Sikora, Gupta and Henneghan. |
Funny how everybody who questions the establishment iare right wing, media whores, who do not have genuine concerns.
Perhaps you would like to guarantee that all the manufacturers have overcome the problems with ADE and VAH that dogged the SARS 1 mRNA vaccine.
Seeing as this has never been used on humans I am glad you don't see any risks involved in such short term testing compared to normal human vaccines.
Out of interest what is the normal testing period for previous Vaccines?
What would happen if something should go wrong in the long term when the whole country has been vaccinated? [Post edited 1 Feb 2021 13:23]
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| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:32 - Feb 1 with 1126 views | Dr_Winston |
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| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:40 - Feb 1 with 1121 views | jackrmee |
That's just a newspaper article though.
It even states: "Maccabi figures released earlier this week indicated that vaccination is working very well, but lacked a control group that made it hard to extract an accurate effectiveness rate."
It also states things like "Full protection is believed to kick in a week after the second shot". I'm sorry, but "believed to kick in" is not concrete enough for me to stick something in me that I do not need. THis does not make me believe that I am helping others by having the jab.
Again it states "Ekka Zohar said she was encouraged by the light symptoms of vaccinated people who caught the coronavirus". So it does not stop people contracting the virus.
Also...
Where do they get their "equivalent sample of unvaccinated Israelis"?
Is that sample taken from the already tested population? If so, these tests are usually only done on people with symptoms or people who have come into contact with someone with symptoms, or who have been picked up by track and trace.
In this case, the sample would not be representative of the whole population, as people without symptoms are not part of the test results.
Sorry, that article does nothing to convince me that I'm helping other people by having the vaccine. | |
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| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:41 - Feb 1 with 1119 views | jackrmee |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:06 - Feb 1 by Scotia |
The same would apply to asymptomatic cases though too. If you don't have symptoms but go somewhere like a restaurant, you could be exhaling less virus when vaccinated than if you weren't vaccinated. |
Could be?
edit: could also make people think they are breathing out less harmful air and become slack on their distancing or mask wearing. [Post edited 1 Feb 2021 12:59]
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| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:45 - Feb 1 with 1106 views | jackrmee |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:07 - Feb 1 by Scotia |
Yes. That's why children get the flu vaccine too. |
Getting the flu vaccine reduces transmission?
I thought the flu vaccine works in a totally different way?
Doesn't the flu vaccine actually put a small amount of random flu virus into our systems, in order for the immune system to build up it's own barrier towards it?
How does giving someone a small shot of a virus cause those people, who did not even have the virus in them before, be less contagious than before the jab? | |
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| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:48 - Feb 1 with 1100 views | hobo |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:32 - Feb 1 by Dr_Winston |
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Needs a comparison with the control group otherwise it's meaningless |  | | |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:49 - Feb 1 with 1099 views | Gwyn737 |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:40 - Feb 1 by jackrmee |
That's just a newspaper article though.
It even states: "Maccabi figures released earlier this week indicated that vaccination is working very well, but lacked a control group that made it hard to extract an accurate effectiveness rate."
It also states things like "Full protection is believed to kick in a week after the second shot". I'm sorry, but "believed to kick in" is not concrete enough for me to stick something in me that I do not need. THis does not make me believe that I am helping others by having the jab.
Again it states "Ekka Zohar said she was encouraged by the light symptoms of vaccinated people who caught the coronavirus". So it does not stop people contracting the virus.
Also...
Where do they get their "equivalent sample of unvaccinated Israelis"?
Is that sample taken from the already tested population? If so, these tests are usually only done on people with symptoms or people who have come into contact with someone with symptoms, or who have been picked up by track and trace.
In this case, the sample would not be representative of the whole population, as people without symptoms are not part of the test results.
Sorry, that article does nothing to convince me that I'm helping other people by having the vaccine. |
It's a newpaper article that shares direct quotes for the country's top vaccine statistical analyst.
The fact it's in a newpaper is neither here or there, it's first hand information, directly reported.
You'll never get a complete concensus as there are too many quacks and crank scientists out there. If it's that you're waiting for, it'll never come. | | | |
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