| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 13:25 - May 5 with 2345 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 13:19 - May 5 by jasper_T |
A lie you're told to tell is still a lie. |
You’ve told plenty this season so you’d know.
We’re talking about one of them. |  | |  |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 13:25 - May 5 with 2339 views | TailGunner |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 13:22 - May 5 by jasper_T |
What's Wayne complaining about, then?!? |
Have you read the article?????
He reached the appearance clause which triggered a new contract. The club wouldn't play him due to this. He waived the clause just to play again.
This was when you and others were slating the manager for not picking him | | | |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 13:25 - May 5 with 2344 views | Uxbridge |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 13:19 - May 5 by jasper_T |
A lie you're told to tell is still a lie. |
Hardly a stick to beat him with though. The role does require a modicum of diplomacy sometimes.
He's done a great job anyway. Performed minor miracles to cobble together a team that has remembered how to play passing football. This season could have gone very wrong. |  |
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| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 13:28 - May 5 with 2323 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 13:25 - May 5 by Uxbridge |
Hardly a stick to beat him with though. The role does require a modicum of diplomacy sometimes.
He's done a great job anyway. Performed minor miracles to cobble together a team that has remembered how to play passing football. This season could have gone very wrong. |
Yep.
He’s been a breath of fresh air this season. Has the team playing some lovely stuff.
But if you can’t blame Potter, you have to look elsewhere. | | | |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 13:32 - May 5 with 2290 views | jasper_T |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 13:25 - May 5 by Uxbridge |
Hardly a stick to beat him with though. The role does require a modicum of diplomacy sometimes.
He's done a great job anyway. Performed minor miracles to cobble together a team that has remembered how to play passing football. This season could have gone very wrong. |
It could have but I don't agree it's a miracle, minor or otherwise. The u23s never stopped playing passing football, and it didn't take hindsight to see there was a crop of players ready to make a step up and contribute at this level. I had Oli down for top scorer and Byers for player of the year last summer.
Sunderland we weren't. Joel Asoro and George Honeyman vs. Dan James and Connor Roberts. In bed by 11 Wayne Routledge vs. a drunk Darran Gibson. No competition. | | | |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 13:40 - May 5 with 2256 views | Uxbridge |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 13:28 - May 5 by londonlisa2001 |
Yep.
He’s been a breath of fresh air this season. Has the team playing some lovely stuff.
But if you can’t blame Potter, you have to look elsewhere. |
Probably not been following these threads closely enough, but if we're looking for reasons why things are as they are, then I'm amazed the debate ever goes too far from the poor recruitment on and off the pitch, overseen by our former chairman. The rest is noise really. | |
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| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 13:41 - May 5 with 2251 views | magicdaps10 |
Leave it go Jasper, you are going to turn into E20 otherwise and I wouldn't wish that on you. |  |
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| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 13:44 - May 5 with 2233 views | Uxbridge |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 13:32 - May 5 by jasper_T |
It could have but I don't agree it's a miracle, minor or otherwise. The u23s never stopped playing passing football, and it didn't take hindsight to see there was a crop of players ready to make a step up and contribute at this level. I had Oli down for top scorer and Byers for player of the year last summer.
Sunderland we weren't. Joel Asoro and George Honeyman vs. Dan James and Connor Roberts. In bed by 11 Wayne Routledge vs. a drunk Darran Gibson. No competition. |
I think you underestimate the upheaval of relegation and the squad turnover plus all the other subplots this year. He's done an excellent job IMO. Of course mistakes have been made but that's always going to happen. | |
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| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 13:45 - May 5 with 2227 views | jasper_T |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 13:41 - May 5 by magicdaps10 |
Leave it go Jasper, you are going to turn into E20 otherwise and I wouldn't wish that on you. |
I've been wrong plenty before and I will be again (something E20 would never admit). But believing Potter has made me look a mug today and I'm hopping mad about it. | | | |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 13:46 - May 5 with 2221 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 13:44 - May 5 by Uxbridge |
I think you underestimate the upheaval of relegation and the squad turnover plus all the other subplots this year. He's done an excellent job IMO. Of course mistakes have been made but that's always going to happen. |
It’s not really just your opinion Ux. It is a fact, anyone who thinks otherwise doesn’t know what they are talking about. Simple as that. |  | | |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 13:56 - May 5 with 2202 views | jasper_T |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 13:44 - May 5 by Uxbridge |
I think you underestimate the upheaval of relegation and the squad turnover plus all the other subplots this year. He's done an excellent job IMO. Of course mistakes have been made but that's always going to happen. |
And I think people underestimate the quality and quantity of players we had remaining, and how much of a shambles most of this division is both financially and in the makeup of their squads.
I said early on in the season I thought with our players we should wind up competing for the playoffs in the last few weeks, and that's just about how it's ended up, albeit falling short. So he's definitely done a good job over the course of the season, excellent home form, but miracles give one man too much credit. | | | |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 14:03 - May 5 with 2184 views | Uxbridge |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 13:56 - May 5 by jasper_T |
And I think people underestimate the quality and quantity of players we had remaining, and how much of a shambles most of this division is both financially and in the makeup of their squads.
I said early on in the season I thought with our players we should wind up competing for the playoffs in the last few weeks, and that's just about how it's ended up, albeit falling short. So he's definitely done a good job over the course of the season, excellent home form, but miracles give one man too much credit. |
The word "should" in there is I think where we disagree. I think that's an unreasonable ask given the upheaval in the early months of the season and the number of first year pros thrown into action, often when they needed to be taken out.
The quality of what we had left was not something I was as confident on. Can't help feeling a bit more quality and experience would have seen us top 6 quite comfortably. | |
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| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 14:07 - May 5 with 2161 views | thornabyswan |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 13:45 - May 5 by jasper_T |
I've been wrong plenty before and I will be again (something E20 would never admit). But believing Potter has made me look a mug today and I'm hopping mad about it. |
Never would have guessed  | |
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| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 14:09 - May 5 with 2159 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 13:45 - May 5 by jasper_T |
I've been wrong plenty before and I will be again (something E20 would never admit). But believing Potter has made me look a mug today and I'm hopping mad about it. |
It’s not Potter who’s making you look like a mug mush. |  |
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| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 14:28 - May 5 with 2118 views | jasper_T |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 14:03 - May 5 by Uxbridge |
The word "should" in there is I think where we disagree. I think that's an unreasonable ask given the upheaval in the early months of the season and the number of first year pros thrown into action, often when they needed to be taken out.
The quality of what we had left was not something I was as confident on. Can't help feeling a bit more quality and experience would have seen us top 6 quite comfortably. |
In fairness we haven't had any genuine first year pros playing for us, like Norwich do in Max Aarons. These lads have all been professionals for years, most were aged 20-22, and apart from DJ and Byers had significant senior gametime prior to this season.
"First full season at Championship level" stretches the definition almost beyond relevance.
I agree that if we had more and better players we would have finished higher. Or even if the ones we had could have stayed fit. | | | |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 14:32 - May 5 with 2103 views | jasper_T |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 14:09 - May 5 by exiledclaseboy |
It’s not Potter who’s making you look like a mug mush. |
Didn't say he did. | | | |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 14:42 - May 5 with 2085 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 14:28 - May 5 by jasper_T |
In fairness we haven't had any genuine first year pros playing for us, like Norwich do in Max Aarons. These lads have all been professionals for years, most were aged 20-22, and apart from DJ and Byers had significant senior gametime prior to this season.
"First full season at Championship level" stretches the definition almost beyond relevance.
I agree that if we had more and better players we would have finished higher. Or even if the ones we had could have stayed fit. |
Rodon had played 12 games in League 2 before this season.
Baker Richardson had played no games in the Football League before this season.
You’ve mentioned James and Byers. Dhanda - no senior games before this season.
All players that have been in or around the first team squad this season.
You seem to be stretching the definition of significant senior game time. | | | |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 14:55 - May 5 with 2056 views | jasper_T |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 14:42 - May 5 by londonlisa2001 |
Rodon had played 12 games in League 2 before this season.
Baker Richardson had played no games in the Football League before this season.
You’ve mentioned James and Byers. Dhanda - no senior games before this season.
All players that have been in or around the first team squad this season.
You seem to be stretching the definition of significant senior game time. |
Baker-Richardson I forgot about.
Dhanda didn't consider because he made one start and a few brief substitute appearances. An u23s player who got a few lucky breaks due to injuries and all that over-the-top hype.
12 games of senior football is significant. Most players go through an adaption period of around half a dozen games when they step up to senior level, where they get used to the faster pace and the strength of the opposition, the adrenaline wears off and they can settle down and play their natural game. Without 12 games very unlikely Rodon produces the type of performance he did for us against Preston. Looked scared to head a ball at Cheltenham, they said. But that was evidently just the nerves. | | | |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 15:03 - May 5 with 2039 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 14:55 - May 5 by jasper_T |
Baker-Richardson I forgot about.
Dhanda didn't consider because he made one start and a few brief substitute appearances. An u23s player who got a few lucky breaks due to injuries and all that over-the-top hype.
12 games of senior football is significant. Most players go through an adaption period of around half a dozen games when they step up to senior level, where they get used to the faster pace and the strength of the opposition, the adrenaline wears off and they can settle down and play their natural game. Without 12 games very unlikely Rodon produces the type of performance he did for us against Preston. Looked scared to head a ball at Cheltenham, they said. But that was evidently just the nerves. |
So bearing in mind that the point you were arguing with Uxbridge was that you believe our players had enough significant senior experience that they ‘should’ have been able to compete to achieve the playoffs in the championship, 12 games in League 2 is indicative of that is it?
And it doesn’t matter why Dhanda played, the fact is he did. And so, according to you, was part of the squad that ‘should’ have been able to compete to achieve the playoffs in the championship. With not a single game before this season.
Lol. | | | |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 15:54 - May 5 with 1981 views | jasper_T |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 15:03 - May 5 by londonlisa2001 |
So bearing in mind that the point you were arguing with Uxbridge was that you believe our players had enough significant senior experience that they ‘should’ have been able to compete to achieve the playoffs in the championship, 12 games in League 2 is indicative of that is it?
And it doesn’t matter why Dhanda played, the fact is he did. And so, according to you, was part of the squad that ‘should’ have been able to compete to achieve the playoffs in the championship. With not a single game before this season.
Lol. |
Dhanda shouldn't have been part of the squad. He was signed for the u23s, only went on the preseason tour because Byers picked up an injury in the Newport game, and made his only league start in that daft lineup against Forest, and looked entirely out of his depth. Not awful against Palace but that was mostly played at training pace.
When we hit form and consistent selection he didn't make most matchday squads. So no, he's not a significant influence on where the team should finish in a league table.
The point I was debating with Uxbridge was that our squad had enough ability to compete as we have done. Experience is only one factor in players ability to perform. Our inexperienced kids were very good. The 4th best u23s side in the UK last season, in fact, even without players like Rodon and McBurnie available for much of it.
This is a division where untried teenagers emerge to stardom every year. Bogle, Aarons, Clarke, Reece James etc. this season. Our development crop of 20-22 year olds was extremely well-positioned to do the same, given the time and money put into assembling it. And so it's proved. | | | |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 16:18 - May 5 with 1956 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 15:54 - May 5 by jasper_T |
Dhanda shouldn't have been part of the squad. He was signed for the u23s, only went on the preseason tour because Byers picked up an injury in the Newport game, and made his only league start in that daft lineup against Forest, and looked entirely out of his depth. Not awful against Palace but that was mostly played at training pace.
When we hit form and consistent selection he didn't make most matchday squads. So no, he's not a significant influence on where the team should finish in a league table.
The point I was debating with Uxbridge was that our squad had enough ability to compete as we have done. Experience is only one factor in players ability to perform. Our inexperienced kids were very good. The 4th best u23s side in the UK last season, in fact, even without players like Rodon and McBurnie available for much of it.
This is a division where untried teenagers emerge to stardom every year. Bogle, Aarons, Clarke, Reece James etc. this season. Our development crop of 20-22 year olds was extremely well-positioned to do the same, given the time and money put into assembling it. And so it's proved. |
It doesn’t matter whether he should have been part of the squad. He was part of the squad for parts of the season. And you’ve dropped Rodon off your argument now?
Anyway. I can’t be bothered to argue with you to be honest.
All season, your point has been :
- squad is good enough to be competitive (now means top ten, earlier meant play offs, earlier again meant we’d ‘p*ss the division’) so any failure to do so is the fault of the manager.
- Any signings not made weren’t needed.
- Most signings that were made were poor.
- Players who are not selected due to club issues didn’t exist.
- Until they did. At which point Potter’s a liar.
- Any mess made by Nordfeldt was actually made by Potter.
- Any selection you didn’t agree with was a sign Potter is crap.
- Any change Potter made to win a match was obvious and you’d spotted it hours previously.
- any change he didn’t make is a sign he’s crap
- when we lose, it’s Potter’s fault
- when we win, it’s due to the quality in the squad
But, you know, no agenda...
Don’t take it the wrong way - I’ve greatly enjoyed some of your posts this season. The journey you took us on to support a category 1 academy at all costs, to overnight declaring it a complete waste of time and money because the club were seemingly considering downgrading it, was a thing of beauty. Worthy of Paul on his way to Damascus. | | | |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 16:48 - May 5 with 1912 views | TailGunner |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 16:18 - May 5 by londonlisa2001 |
It doesn’t matter whether he should have been part of the squad. He was part of the squad for parts of the season. And you’ve dropped Rodon off your argument now?
Anyway. I can’t be bothered to argue with you to be honest.
All season, your point has been :
- squad is good enough to be competitive (now means top ten, earlier meant play offs, earlier again meant we’d ‘p*ss the division’) so any failure to do so is the fault of the manager.
- Any signings not made weren’t needed.
- Most signings that were made were poor.
- Players who are not selected due to club issues didn’t exist.
- Until they did. At which point Potter’s a liar.
- Any mess made by Nordfeldt was actually made by Potter.
- Any selection you didn’t agree with was a sign Potter is crap.
- Any change Potter made to win a match was obvious and you’d spotted it hours previously.
- any change he didn’t make is a sign he’s crap
- when we lose, it’s Potter’s fault
- when we win, it’s due to the quality in the squad
But, you know, no agenda...
Don’t take it the wrong way - I’ve greatly enjoyed some of your posts this season. The journey you took us on to support a category 1 academy at all costs, to overnight declaring it a complete waste of time and money because the club were seemingly considering downgrading it, was a thing of beauty. Worthy of Paul on his way to Damascus. |
Magnificent post Lisa. Truly magnificent. | | | |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 17:02 - May 5 with 1894 views | jasper_T |
That's a lot of words to type about someone you "can’t be bothered to argue with to be honest".
You've been dead set on this idea that I'm someone with an agenda all season, and implied I'm obviously someone significant on more than one occasion. It's a strange little crusade, built on no shortage of imagination and rewriting of easily-checked posting history. | | | |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 17:17 - May 5 with 1875 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 17:02 - May 5 by jasper_T |
That's a lot of words to type about someone you "can’t be bothered to argue with to be honest".
You've been dead set on this idea that I'm someone with an agenda all season, and implied I'm obviously someone significant on more than one occasion. It's a strange little crusade, built on no shortage of imagination and rewriting of easily-checked posting history. |
That post from Lisa has ended this debate. Please stop.
It’s actually starting to get uncomfortable. | | | |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 17:22 - May 5 with 1868 views | thornabyswan |
| Well that explains why Routledge wasn't playing earlier in the season. on 16:18 - May 5 by londonlisa2001 |
It doesn’t matter whether he should have been part of the squad. He was part of the squad for parts of the season. And you’ve dropped Rodon off your argument now?
Anyway. I can’t be bothered to argue with you to be honest.
All season, your point has been :
- squad is good enough to be competitive (now means top ten, earlier meant play offs, earlier again meant we’d ‘p*ss the division’) so any failure to do so is the fault of the manager.
- Any signings not made weren’t needed.
- Most signings that were made were poor.
- Players who are not selected due to club issues didn’t exist.
- Until they did. At which point Potter’s a liar.
- Any mess made by Nordfeldt was actually made by Potter.
- Any selection you didn’t agree with was a sign Potter is crap.
- Any change Potter made to win a match was obvious and you’d spotted it hours previously.
- any change he didn’t make is a sign he’s crap
- when we lose, it’s Potter’s fault
- when we win, it’s due to the quality in the squad
But, you know, no agenda...
Don’t take it the wrong way - I’ve greatly enjoyed some of your posts this season. The journey you took us on to support a category 1 academy at all costs, to overnight declaring it a complete waste of time and money because the club were seemingly considering downgrading it, was a thing of beauty. Worthy of Paul on his way to Damascus. |
Very harsh post that Jasper made the mistake of believing what Potter said.
But he does come up with some interesting points / analasys.
And to be fair he gets plenty right half the fan base have bemoaned Potters selections tactics this season. [Post edited 5 May 2019 17:30]
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