| Will labour ever get back into power? 10:52 - Dec 23 with 19382 views | mrrockin |
I've been following the recent labour news with amusement and a bit of sadness (yes genuinely) - it's painfully obvious that the tories are going to win an increased majority possibly even a landslide in 2020.
By this point the left of labour will have a stranglehold over labour and this will mean there is no hope for the right of labour which closely mirrors the early 80's with the breakaway of the SDP.
Personally I believe the likes of Denis Healey made a mistake and the moderates should have left on mass to join the SDP and leave the socialists to keep the red flag flying high. Maybe as CB has long argued it is time for a voting change.
I was very skeptical about voting change but I personally thought the coalition largely did a superb job and I was disappointed it didn't continue in many ways. I largely support this Gov but I'm more in the centre so I'd prefer the right wingers to be more restrained which the coalition provided.
My point is that under the present system labour will never recover and it might be time for a realignment to take place in British politics.
[Post edited 23 Dec 2015 10:53]
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:27 - Dec 23 with 1976 views | mrrockin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:24 - Dec 23 by dgt73 |
Globalisation lol how the fook can we compete with China/ India who pay the equivalent of a bowl of rice a day. [Post edited 23 Dec 2015 17:25]
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But that's precisely the point I'm making it's so simplistic to suggest the Gov can turn the Steel industry around this is far more fundamental than that. Our only option is adapt or die, we can't compete with slave wages when the min wage law came in the factories offshored. Some are returning because of transaction costs or superior skills.
For Steel to survive we can't just bail it out | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:31 - Dec 23 with 1975 views | Vinnie |
Yes,people have short memories. | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:34 - Dec 23 with 1975 views | dgt73 |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:27 - Dec 23 by mrrockin |
But that's precisely the point I'm making it's so simplistic to suggest the Gov can turn the Steel industry around this is far more fundamental than that. Our only option is adapt or die, we can't compete with slave wages when the min wage law came in the factories offshored. Some are returning because of transaction costs or superior skills.
For Steel to survive we can't just bail it out |
Pointless bailing out just "steel". The horse has well and truly bolted. What is needed is a government that puts the interests of the British people first.
none of the established political parties do this. The sooner society collapses the better- so we can start all over again. |  |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 19:20 - Dec 23 with 1947 views | exiledclaseboy |
To answer the question in the OP, yes Labour will eventually regain power. British politics moves in cycles as post-war history has shown us. That said, if Labour continues its current path it'll be annihilated in 2020, especially with the gerrymandering boundary changes and changes to the voter registration process, both of which are solely designed to ensure that the Tories hold power for as long as possible.
Labour's losing in 2020 anyway. The only question is the scale of the defeat. I doubt Corbyn will get anywhere near the 2020 election as leader. |  |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 19:32 - Dec 23 with 1929 views | builthjack |
Yes, they will get back in at the 2020 election. Remember, you heard it here first. It won't be Corbyn though. |  |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 19:36 - Dec 23 with 1926 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 19:32 - Dec 23 by builthjack |
Yes, they will get back in at the 2020 election. Remember, you heard it here first. It won't be Corbyn though. |
Unless the Tories absolutely split themselves asunder over Europe and the referendum, I can't see any way Labour wins in 2020. Corbyn or otherwise. | |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 19:59 - Dec 23 with 1902 views | dailew |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 19:36 - Dec 23 by exiledclaseboy |
Unless the Tories absolutely split themselves asunder over Europe and the referendum, I can't see any way Labour wins in 2020. Corbyn or otherwise. |
Things may look very different in a year or two.
Last month's borrowing figures were really bad and this year's deficit won't be much lower than last year. This with a supposedly growing low-unemployment economy and consumers borrowing £40bn a year.
Gideon's promise to run a surplus by the end of this parliament looks increasingly laughable.
On the other hand he promised something similar before and got away with it. Extend and pretend. No-one seems to care anyway as long as they don't have to pay for it. |  |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 20:00 - Dec 23 with 1902 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 19:36 - Dec 23 by exiledclaseboy |
Unless the Tories absolutely split themselves asunder over Europe and the referendum, I can't see any way Labour wins in 2020. Corbyn or otherwise. |
I think labour will win. Probably wont be Corbyn as leader, but i do hope they run on a radical pro European ticket with the nationalisation of both rail and steel. Reverse the bedroom tax. Scrap Trident. No more privatisation in health care or education. Reserved powers model for Welsh Government. Change premier league rules to ensure Swansea City never get relegated. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 20:02 - Dec 23 with 1900 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 19:59 - Dec 23 by dailew |
Things may look very different in a year or two.
Last month's borrowing figures were really bad and this year's deficit won't be much lower than last year. This with a supposedly growing low-unemployment economy and consumers borrowing £40bn a year.
Gideon's promise to run a surplus by the end of this parliament looks increasingly laughable.
On the other hand he promised something similar before and got away with it. Extend and pretend. No-one seems to care anyway as long as they don't have to pay for it. |
But you also have to factor in the boundary changes and changes to voter registration. And your last paragraph sums the whole malaise up well anyway. | |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 20:05 - Dec 23 with 1898 views | dailew |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 20:02 - Dec 23 by exiledclaseboy |
But you also have to factor in the boundary changes and changes to voter registration. And your last paragraph sums the whole malaise up well anyway. |
TBF don't the constituencies as they stand favor Labor?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/15/election-2015-hung-parliament-ma
"Putting all these factors, and some smaller ones, together John Curtice estimated in 2011 that the Conservatives would need a lead of more than 11 points on current boundaries to win a majority, while Labour could secure one with a lead of just three points." | |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 20:10 - Dec 23 with 1891 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 20:05 - Dec 23 by dailew |
TBF don't the constituencies as they stand favor Labor?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/15/election-2015-hung-parliament-ma
"Putting all these factors, and some smaller ones, together John Curtice estimated in 2011 that the Conservatives would need a lead of more than 11 points on current boundaries to win a majority, while Labour could secure one with a lead of just three points." |
Yes they do, hence why the Tories needed 5% more than Labour to even entertain forming a viable government in May. But the changes go naturally too far the other way. Nothing new of course. Governments of both parties have done this sort of thing for decades. The system is fatally flawed anyway. [Post edited 23 Dec 2015 20:11]
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 20:35 - Dec 23 with 1876 views | Jack_Meoff |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 19:59 - Dec 23 by dailew |
Things may look very different in a year or two.
Last month's borrowing figures were really bad and this year's deficit won't be much lower than last year. This with a supposedly growing low-unemployment economy and consumers borrowing £40bn a year.
Gideon's promise to run a surplus by the end of this parliament looks increasingly laughable.
On the other hand he promised something similar before and got away with it. Extend and pretend. No-one seems to care anyway as long as they don't have to pay for it. |
Yeah, saw this yesterday.
http://www.thecanary.co/2015/12/22/george-osbornes-christmas-gift-to-britain-is-
Grim, grim reading.
Like you say, extend and pretend, let's kick the can down the road for a little bit longer. |  |
| If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever. |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 22:14 - Dec 23 with 1856 views | Brynmill_Jack |
Thanks for posting that link. Funny how some guillible fools buy into the Tory dream no matter what facts and figures are placed in front of them. Debt at 80% GDP??? How the hell can the country afford NOT to vote Labour ??? |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 22:27 - Dec 23 with 1842 views | Dr_Winston |
Obviously they'll get back in at some point. The comedy of the Corbyn era aside, a weak opposition does nobody any good.
Eventually people tire of whoever is in power. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 23:00 - Dec 23 with 1827 views | dailew |
A million new council houses wouldn't go amiss. Instead of keeping house prices artificially high.
If all the various schemes to prop up prices were cancelled I wonder how many council houses could be built?
Cancel Trident as well.
The £12bn foreign aid alone would build around 240,000 houses a year. | |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 00:01 - Dec 24 with 1778 views | skippyjack |
No.. considering the clear and corrupt communism that is involved with the party. f*cking shambles it is.. even duller by targeting me. |  |
| The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 06:50 - Dec 24 with 1738 views | Lohengrin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:18 - Dec 23 by dgt73 |
European nationalist ? Where does the European boarders end ?
So you also support the EU ? |
From Connemara to the Urals, from Trondheim to the Hellespont. That would be the common points of reference.
Do I support the EU? I certainly support European unity, whether the current political set up is fit for purpose is highly doubtful. |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 09:55 - Dec 24 with 1718 views | Cottsy |
Despite the Tories best efforts to abolish democracy in this country through cutting short money, the Trades Union Act, changes to voter registration, the ongoing gerrymandering and so on and so forth, tales of Labour's death are a little premature.
Labour membership has doubled since May and is only a few thousand short of the 1997 peak and the grass roots are getting organised in a way they haven't been before even the FBU has realigned with the Labour party since Jeremy Corbyn became leader. Support for Corbyn is higher now among party members than it was when he was elected with an overwhelming majority.
Labour also emphatically won the Oldham West by election when every man and his dog within the Westminster bubble were predicting that UKIP were going to run them close and maybe even win. Jim McMahon specifically thanked Momentum for their support in the campaign.
A lot of people have written off Labour and Jeremy Corbyn after just 3 months but then a lot of people wrote JC off in the leadership election and a lot of people within the Westminster bubble and national press just don't understand what is currently happening within the Labour movement domestically or internationally, see the recent coverage of the Spanish elections and Podemos' rise to be the 3rd largest party for examples. |  |
| If man evolved from monkeys why do we still have monkeys? |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 10:01 - Dec 24 with 1712 views | johnlangy |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 15:36 - Dec 23 by mrrockin |
The comment suggests recent history.
Cheapest electricity, gas etc in Europe.
Railways doubled in demand since privatisation.
Health care in England has about 6% in private, outcomes much better than Wales which is pretty much State run.
I love the idea that if we magically Nationalised all of these things that we'd suddenly still be able to afford more and more on health, education etc.
Where the Hell do you get the money from?
But I'll say it again anyway all of this is historical. |
Actually,AFAIK, most expensive elect/gas in Europe which is why the Steel industry, for example, finds it so difficult to compete. Railways double the demand but quadrupled the subsidy since privatisation.
That last point. If you ask ' where the hell do we get the money from', where does the money come from to subsidise the private investors in the railway. | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 11:08 - Dec 24 with 1701 views | trampie |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:15 - Dec 23 by Lohengrin |
I don't want us to compete with the World. I've always believed that the advent of the Global Economy would be ruinous to European industry. I think I've been consistent on here in advocating a disengagement from the whole sorry affair. That may well necessitate adopting a gradualist policy but that's the direction I regard as being vital to our future well being.
At heart you know I've always been a European nationalist. The narrow vision of a little Britain has never appealed to me, I've never seen it as being remotely viable or desirable. |
Why would a Welsh person want to be a European nationalist ?, some might ask are the Northern European races intellectually on a par ?, its been noted by some that the Northern European races fight for money, property and possessions when the Welsh fight for friends and family, their community and their people.
Having total sovereignty within Europe is fine, but having decisions made for us by the Northern Europeans as that is what it would amount to is another thing.
We have fought the English and Germans over the years and the French let us down the last time we invaded England and we have also fought Nordic invaders in the past.
Some say we have more in common with our old trading partners around the Mediterranean basin, that they are more cultured and more like us but Europe is currently dominated by the Northern European types.
Would you prefer a Christian White European nation state even if you thought it was culturally watered down compared to an independent Welsh state, would that be acceptable to you Lohengrin ? |  |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 11:13 - Dec 24 with 1695 views | mrrockin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 19:59 - Dec 23 by dailew |
Things may look very different in a year or two.
Last month's borrowing figures were really bad and this year's deficit won't be much lower than last year. This with a supposedly growing low-unemployment economy and consumers borrowing £40bn a year.
Gideon's promise to run a surplus by the end of this parliament looks increasingly laughable.
On the other hand he promised something similar before and got away with it. Extend and pretend. No-one seems to care anyway as long as they don't have to pay for it. |
So let me guess your answer to us not hitting our borrowing targets is to... borrow more?
The reason we've struggled to hit targets is because behind all the rhetoric we haven't cut fast at all, in England all the major departments have been protected in fact in the last spending review the cuts were very modest indeed.
On the employment side of things we're almost at what many economists would deem full employment, whether you like it or not to create more jobs than the rest of Europe over the last five years is pretty impressive.
People are not stupid when Blair took over in 1997 he had an economy booming, with low inflation, deficit declining rapidly and healthy tax receipts. That is why they won an increased share because people in the middle could see that in the round they've done a great job having a deficit of over 11% was an appalling legacy left by labour. The moderates know it but the delusional left will never accept it and that's why they'll be out of power for at least the next ten years. [Post edited 24 Dec 2015 11:14]
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 11:18 - Dec 24 with 1689 views | mrrockin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 20:10 - Dec 23 by exiledclaseboy |
Yes they do, hence why the Tories needed 5% more than Labour to even entertain forming a viable government in May. But the changes go naturally too far the other way. Nothing new of course. Governments of both parties have done this sort of thing for decades. The system is fatally flawed anyway. [Post edited 23 Dec 2015 20:11]
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ECB the boundary changes are long overdue we can argue the toss over PR etc but fundamentally labour do have a built in advantage.
The valleys is a case in point, there are way too many seats which of course are all red and this is one of the reasons we'll never have a non labour administration in Cardiff bay.
Equalization of constituencies is something you as a free thinking chap should support and not drift into party politics. The liberals were supportive they only pulled the plug because they had a hissy fit that Lords reform didn't happen. For me that was the beginning of the end for them, made them look like kids playing a mans game. | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 11:21 - Dec 24 with 1685 views | Highjack |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 11:08 - Dec 24 by trampie |
Why would a Welsh person want to be a European nationalist ?, some might ask are the Northern European races intellectually on a par ?, its been noted by some that the Northern European races fight for money, property and possessions when the Welsh fight for friends and family, their community and their people.
Having total sovereignty within Europe is fine, but having decisions made for us by the Northern Europeans as that is what it would amount to is another thing.
We have fought the English and Germans over the years and the French let us down the last time we invaded England and we have also fought Nordic invaders in the past.
Some say we have more in common with our old trading partners around the Mediterranean basin, that they are more cultured and more like us but Europe is currently dominated by the Northern European types.
Would you prefer a Christian White European nation state even if you thought it was culturally watered down compared to an independent Welsh state, would that be acceptable to you Lohengrin ? |
You are absolutely barking fair play. |  |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 11:21 - Dec 24 with 1682 views | trampie |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:34 - Dec 23 by dgt73 |
Pointless bailing out just "steel". The horse has well and truly bolted. What is needed is a government that puts the interests of the British people first.
none of the established political parties do this. The sooner society collapses the better- so we can start all over again. |
Far from pointless we cant call ourselves a first World country if we have no steel making capacity, could be a real issue if there was a major war and we have to source our steel elsewhere. | |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 11:25 - Dec 24 with 1675 views | mrrockin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 11:21 - Dec 24 by Highjack |
You are absolutely barking fair play. |
Have you noticed something about the two differing visions of Lohengrin and Trampie.
One advocates strength, the other weakness.
Trampie if you want to convert me to your cause selling it as 'we're all rather weak and inadequate so we need support' doesn't really do it for me.
This is the Plaid of today, as epitomized by the lovely Leanne; 'giv us moooree powwweerrr and moooreeee monnneeyyy beccozzz weee areeee reallllyyy pooooorrrrrreeerr' instead of:
'with more power we could do x, y z for revitalising the Welsh economy to become one of the power houses of Northern Europe.'
That is called ambition and I would listen | | | |
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