| And so it begins 09:35 - Jul 11 with 2277 views | Boundy |
They're after your saving and now, for some their pensions, Sir Edward Troup, a former executive for HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) who has been advising Shadow Chancellor Rachel Reeves, said action has to be taken on pensions. He explained: "It's not easy and I don't hold a particular view about how we deliver something which I think, should be delivered. My generation, the pensioners' generation, if they've got income, if they've got means, should be contributing at least as much, and possibly more than those people who are working, bringing up families and are really contributing now to that country.'" .
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newsbirmingham/state-pensioners-may-have-to-surre |  |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| And so it begins on 09:45 - Jul 11 with 1609 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
I don't think the dull idiots realise that older people help their family out, the bank of mum and dad is the biggest lender to first time buyers.
Last year 314,000 house purchases were supported by parents. |  |
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| And so it begins on 09:59 - Jul 11 with 1595 views | Dr_Winston |
| And so it begins on 09:45 - Jul 11 by JACKMANANDBOY |
I don't think the dull idiots realise that older people help their family out, the bank of mum and dad is the biggest lender to first time buyers.
Last year 314,000 house purchases were supported by parents. |
I'm not averse to the idea of all "benefits" being means tested. I guess it would depend on where they set the levels.
Someone with a private pension of 40-50k certainly doesn't need a state pension to live on. Someone with a private pension of 15-20k certainly would. The vast majority of people would fall into the latter camp. Then you have household incomes to consider. Would a couple on combined pensions income of £40k qualify? |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| And so it begins on 10:41 - Jul 11 with 1565 views | Boundy |
| And so it begins on 09:59 - Jul 11 by Dr_Winston |
I'm not averse to the idea of all "benefits" being means tested. I guess it would depend on where they set the levels.
Someone with a private pension of 40-50k certainly doesn't need a state pension to live on. Someone with a private pension of 15-20k certainly would. The vast majority of people would fall into the latter camp. Then you have household incomes to consider. Would a couple on combined pensions income of £40k qualify? |
Nor I but I am adverse to the idea that all benefits such as PIP carers allowance etc fall under the same scrutiny when what is claimed is relatively miniscule compared to the daily attendance allowance for the House of Lords + expenses, paid to already wealthy individuals who quaff it away on fine wine and business lunches .Its always seems to me to be a race to the bottom when it comes to the working mans earnings. | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| And so it begins on 11:32 - Jul 11 with 1521 views | AnotherJohn |
| And so it begins on 09:59 - Jul 11 by Dr_Winston |
I'm not averse to the idea of all "benefits" being means tested. I guess it would depend on where they set the levels.
Someone with a private pension of 40-50k certainly doesn't need a state pension to live on. Someone with a private pension of 15-20k certainly would. The vast majority of people would fall into the latter camp. Then you have household incomes to consider. Would a couple on combined pensions income of £40k qualify? |
Many will regard the state pension as different because it is based on one's record of NI contributions, and one needs 35 years of contributions to get the full state pension. Of course, means testing does apply to those who don't have an adequate contributions record and are topped up via non-contributory benefits. So making the state pension proper subject to means testing would be hugely controversial. I can imagine some families that have shelled out thousands to buy extra years for non-working housewives with children past 16 feeling rather miffed. | | | |
| And so it begins on 11:37 - Jul 11 with 1517 views | Dr_Winston |
| And so it begins on 11:32 - Jul 11 by AnotherJohn |
Many will regard the state pension as different because it is based on one's record of NI contributions, and one needs 35 years of contributions to get the full state pension. Of course, means testing does apply to those who don't have an adequate contributions record and are topped up via non-contributory benefits. So making the state pension proper subject to means testing would be hugely controversial. I can imagine some families that have shelled out thousands to buy extra years for non-working housewives with children past 16 feeling rather miffed. |
There are other contribution based benefits that can be whittled away by pension income so it wouldn't be a huge leap. I agree that there would have to be a pretty huge lead in time though.
Pensions is something I've said before needs a huge looking at. The current system is unsustainable in the long run, and shipping more and more people in to pay for it is only creating a bubble. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| And so it begins on 11:45 - Jul 11 with 1508 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Creating even less incentive for people to go out and work. What’s the point in paying into a system only for it to be all taken off you? |  |
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| And so it begins on 11:48 - Jul 11 with 1504 views | Whiterockin |
| And so it begins on 09:59 - Jul 11 by Dr_Winston |
I'm not averse to the idea of all "benefits" being means tested. I guess it would depend on where they set the levels.
Someone with a private pension of 40-50k certainly doesn't need a state pension to live on. Someone with a private pension of 15-20k certainly would. The vast majority of people would fall into the latter camp. Then you have household incomes to consider. Would a couple on combined pensions income of £40k qualify? |
That would be fair if you didn't need to contribute into the national pension fund for 50 years. |  | | |
| And so it begins on 12:53 - Jul 11 with 1450 views | AnotherJohn |
| And so it begins on 11:37 - Jul 11 by Dr_Winston |
There are other contribution based benefits that can be whittled away by pension income so it wouldn't be a huge leap. I agree that there would have to be a pretty huge lead in time though.
Pensions is something I've said before needs a huge looking at. The current system is unsustainable in the long run, and shipping more and more people in to pay for it is only creating a bubble. |
I am not necessarily disagreeing, but couldn't think what these other contributions-based benefits are. NI is an archetypal case because it comes from the Beveridge blueprint based on a true social insurance fund. Under Nye Bevan we went down a different route with tax funding of most social protection measures, rather than the German social insurance model, but kept the label of national insurance. As we all know, pensions are paid out of annual budget revenues in which tax and NI contributions are merged. So when you mention other contributions-based benefits are you thinking more of things like tax allowances linked to SIPPs, LISAs and high risk VCTs and EIS investments? The only other things that came to mind are NHS dentistry and optical services, as well as the immigration healthcare surcharge, but of course the latter doesn't apply to residents. | | | |
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| And so it begins on 13:30 - Jul 11 with 1430 views | Dr_Winston |
Income from a private pension affects both contribution based JSA and ESA. Benefits ostensibly paid based on your NI and not means tested but which can be reduced, potentially to zero depending upon the amount of other income there is.
It wouldn't be a huge leap to do the same to State Pension. Not saying they will or that they should, but the precedent is already in place. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| And so it begins on 13:47 - Jul 11 with 1417 views | AnotherJohn |
| And so it begins on 13:30 - Jul 11 by Dr_Winston |
Income from a private pension affects both contribution based JSA and ESA. Benefits ostensibly paid based on your NI and not means tested but which can be reduced, potentially to zero depending upon the amount of other income there is.
It wouldn't be a huge leap to do the same to State Pension. Not saying they will or that they should, but the precedent is already in place. |
Thanks. Yes, I see now that both JSA and ESA are linked to NI contributions record, but also subject to a means test. This seems to be a fairly recent departure that rather blurs the line between contributions-based entitlements and means-tested benefits. | | | |
| And so it begins on 13:52 - Jul 11 with 1412 views | Dr_Winston |
| And so it begins on 13:47 - Jul 11 by AnotherJohn |
Thanks. Yes, I see now that both JSA and ESA are linked to NI contributions record, but also subject to a means test. This seems to be a fairly recent departure that rather blurs the line between contributions-based entitlements and means-tested benefits. |
It's not recent. Been the case for at least 26 years. As I say, if they want to do it then the example is well established. [Post edited 11 Jul 13:55]
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| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| And so it begins on 14:05 - Jul 11 with 1391 views | JumpingJackFlash |
We know three people who have paid for their own operations (one knee, two hip) in the last year. All in their early seventies, they weren’t prepared to wait until they reached the top of the NHS waiting list. None of them are what I would call wealthy but all are fairly comfortable.
Would they accept a trade off whereby they pay some more tax but guarantee to have their operations within say, six months?
Too many people expect the government of the day to reduce both tax and NHS waiting lists. No political party is honest about it. | | | |
| And so it begins on 16:06 - Jul 11 with 1328 views | ItchySphincter |
| And so it begins on 09:59 - Jul 11 by Dr_Winston |
I'm not averse to the idea of all "benefits" being means tested. I guess it would depend on where they set the levels.
Someone with a private pension of 40-50k certainly doesn't need a state pension to live on. Someone with a private pension of 15-20k certainly would. The vast majority of people would fall into the latter camp. Then you have household incomes to consider. Would a couple on combined pensions income of £40k qualify? |
Stop talking sense, pffft.
I know chaps, same line of work as me, self employed via Ltd co., but a good bit older - state pensioable age. They cannot draw a wage or a dividend from their company because the combination of their state pension and private pension pushes them in to the higer tax band.
Obviously they don't need to work but it is their right and their choice, but lets not pretend the all pensioners are struggling. |  |
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| And so it begins on 16:26 - Jul 11 with 1299 views | SullutaCreturned |
It all depends where they set the starting point for this clawback. After all when this bloke says...
"My generation, the pensioners' generation, if they've got income, if they've got means, should be contributing at least as much, and possibly more than those people who are working, bringing up families and are really contributing now to that country.'"
isn't he forgetting that pensioners were once those people too, they have worked and paid into the system for decades so unless they are stinking rich, why should somebody give up theur pension because, on his opinion they are no longer contributing. Never mind, as already said, the bank of mum and dad or the free babysitting, the voluntary work or those pensioners who carry on working because the state pension is not enough. | | | |
| And so it begins on 16:39 - Jul 11 with 1280 views | Scotia |
Well I for one would be happy to get less help from the government in exchange for Pensions being left largely alone, although I have no objection to tax being paid at a sensible rate.
Someone of my means should not be able to get free prescriptions in Wales or children have free school meals.
Whereas my friend would need to earn about £30k a year to make work worthwhile instead of getting benefits. He has no intention of doing so.
No benefits should be universal except for state pension, I'm relying on mine coming in the future even though I'm piling cash in to an AVC pension pot. I'll have to keep working otherwise. | | | |
| And so it begins on 16:44 - Jul 11 with 1274 views | SullutaCreturned |
| And so it begins on 16:39 - Jul 11 by Scotia |
Well I for one would be happy to get less help from the government in exchange for Pensions being left largely alone, although I have no objection to tax being paid at a sensible rate.
Someone of my means should not be able to get free prescriptions in Wales or children have free school meals.
Whereas my friend would need to earn about £30k a year to make work worthwhile instead of getting benefits. He has no intention of doing so.
No benefits should be universal except for state pension, I'm relying on mine coming in the future even though I'm piling cash in to an AVC pension pot. I'll have to keep working otherwise. |
I'm 100% with you here. We don't need free scripts and I won't need a free bus pass or tv license at 67 either.
My occupational has been paying out since 2011 after my medical retirement and the last2 years of inflation have been kind to me. I also work full time and so does my wife, we can afford to pay our own way yet we don't get that choice. | | | |
| And so it begins on 16:49 - Jul 11 with 1261 views | Whiterockin |
| And so it begins on 16:44 - Jul 11 by SullutaCreturned |
I'm 100% with you here. We don't need free scripts and I won't need a free bus pass or tv license at 67 either.
My occupational has been paying out since 2011 after my medical retirement and the last2 years of inflation have been kind to me. I also work full time and so does my wife, we can afford to pay our own way yet we don't get that choice. |
You won't get a free tv licence at 67, but you do get a £10 Christmas present. | | | |
| And so it begins on 16:55 - Jul 11 with 1235 views | ItchySphincter |
| And so it begins on 16:39 - Jul 11 by Scotia |
Well I for one would be happy to get less help from the government in exchange for Pensions being left largely alone, although I have no objection to tax being paid at a sensible rate.
Someone of my means should not be able to get free prescriptions in Wales or children have free school meals.
Whereas my friend would need to earn about £30k a year to make work worthwhile instead of getting benefits. He has no intention of doing so.
No benefits should be universal except for state pension, I'm relying on mine coming in the future even though I'm piling cash in to an AVC pension pot. I'll have to keep working otherwise. |
I hope it works out for you. For those of us that are still some way out from pensionable age I think its going to be quite different by the time we get there. I'll probably have to retrain which seems mindbendingly impossible at my age, or go in to a different line of work - also difficult as I'm bordering on unemployable, but I think it's quite likely that those of us hitting 50 in the next few years are likely to have to work until we drop. | |
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| And so it begins on 17:28 - Jul 11 with 1216 views | Dr_Winston |
| And so it begins on 16:55 - Jul 11 by ItchySphincter |
I hope it works out for you. For those of us that are still some way out from pensionable age I think its going to be quite different by the time we get there. I'll probably have to retrain which seems mindbendingly impossible at my age, or go in to a different line of work - also difficult as I'm bordering on unemployable, but I think it's quite likely that those of us hitting 50 in the next few years are likely to have to work until we drop. |
I suppose it depends on what people want out of life.
On our combined likely pension Mrs. Winston and I could probably retire by 57 and not have to keep working. We'll both have 35+ years in by then. If we want to actually live a little and see the World like we plan to however then we're both going to have to do something to pay for it.
As I see it this and future Governments have two realistic options. Either keep increasing the pension age, or reduce the amount of people getting a pension. I suspect the more politically palatable option would be removing the concept of NI contributions so people don't feel like a state pension is something earned and just means testing entitlement.
You could even really throw the cat amongst the pigeons by having different pension ages for different industries. A coalminer currently has to wait to get their pension at the same age as a white collar worker who has spent their career in an office. A bugger to administer, but a lot of people could probably see the fairness in it. [Post edited 11 Jul 17:34]
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| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| And so it begins on 17:52 - Jul 11 with 1187 views | Whiterockin |
| And so it begins on 17:28 - Jul 11 by Dr_Winston |
I suppose it depends on what people want out of life.
On our combined likely pension Mrs. Winston and I could probably retire by 57 and not have to keep working. We'll both have 35+ years in by then. If we want to actually live a little and see the World like we plan to however then we're both going to have to do something to pay for it.
As I see it this and future Governments have two realistic options. Either keep increasing the pension age, or reduce the amount of people getting a pension. I suspect the more politically palatable option would be removing the concept of NI contributions so people don't feel like a state pension is something earned and just means testing entitlement.
You could even really throw the cat amongst the pigeons by having different pension ages for different industries. A coalminer currently has to wait to get their pension at the same age as a white collar worker who has spent their career in an office. A bugger to administer, but a lot of people could probably see the fairness in it. [Post edited 11 Jul 17:34]
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You would see people changing jobs before retirement. | | | |
| And so it begins on 18:14 - Jul 11 with 1162 views | pencoedjack |
| And so it begins on 09:59 - Jul 11 by Dr_Winston |
I'm not averse to the idea of all "benefits" being means tested. I guess it would depend on where they set the levels.
Someone with a private pension of 40-50k certainly doesn't need a state pension to live on. Someone with a private pension of 15-20k certainly would. The vast majority of people would fall into the latter camp. Then you have household incomes to consider. Would a couple on combined pensions income of £40k qualify? |
If someone looks after their finances all their working life pays there NI whilst paying into a private pension I thinks it’s unfair to stop their state pension.
Especially when some tired barsteward who scrounged off the state all their life gets one. |  | | |
| And so it begins on 19:40 - Jul 11 with 1102 views | max936 |
| And so it begins on 10:41 - Jul 11 by Boundy |
Nor I but I am adverse to the idea that all benefits such as PIP carers allowance etc fall under the same scrutiny when what is claimed is relatively miniscule compared to the daily attendance allowance for the House of Lords + expenses, paid to already wealthy individuals who quaff it away on fine wine and business lunches .Its always seems to me to be a race to the bottom when it comes to the working mans earnings. |
Thanks for mentioning DWP CA Boundy just checked bank and Mrs hasn't received anything since January, £307 a month for a job that's 24/7 its a fing joke and moreso when they haven't been paying it. 
She worked a few extra hours a few years ago and she was made to feel like a criminal, I phoned them and wiped the floor with them and then sent a letter of complaint and various emails, never heard a thing back, despicable people to deal with. |  |
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| And so it begins on 19:44 - Jul 11 with 1093 views | max936 |
Pensioners that have paid their dues over the 40/50 or more years that they worked and contributed to society, scum bags the lot of them doesn't matter who is in No 10 they are all scum with they snouts in the trough munching everything in sight. | |
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| And so it begins on 19:47 - Jul 11 with 1092 views | max936 |
| And so it begins on 11:45 - Jul 11 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Creating even less incentive for people to go out and work. What’s the point in paying into a system only for it to be all taken off you? |
Spot on I upped the payments into my PP a few years ago, so I doubt I'll get what I am intitled to when I retire in a few years. | |
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| And so it begins on 19:52 - Jul 11 with 1089 views | max936 |
| And so it begins on 18:14 - Jul 11 by pencoedjack |
If someone looks after their finances all their working life pays there NI whilst paying into a private pension I thinks it’s unfair to stop their state pension.
Especially when some tired barsteward who scrounged off the state all their life gets one. |
This 100% | |
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