| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC 18:42 - Apr 30 with 6926 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
"I thought we were excellent today, the game plan came off perfectly.
"We were very happy for Swansea to have the ball, we wanted to control the game without the ball, which we did brilliantly.
"5-1 is obviously a great result, but to be honest it could have been more, it should have been 5-1 at half-time.
"We know Swansea have a lot of the ball, but also knew they also concede a hell of a lot of chances and a hell of a lot of goals."
No one can argue with that. Martin is not adapting after similar away thrashings at Fulham Sheff Utd and Bournemouth. 2 or 3 signings are not going to solve it. Grimes and Downes are highly rated defensive midfielders. 27 shots 13 on target. Not sustainable. Martins changes made it worse not better.
Swansea lost to QPR in the FA cup 5-1. Declan John, Asoro and McKay never kicked the ball for Swansea again.
[Post edited 30 Apr 2022 18:44]
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 13:34 - May 1 with 877 views | Gwyn737 |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 13:32 - May 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
I loved the two seasons he was manager here.
Was the first time in a long time I had faith that a manager could actually manage and get the best out of what he had. It told me that come a time he was eventually backed to bring his own players in then it could be something quite astonishing.
Unfortunately he was never truly backed and despite improving season on season, he was pushed out. Now we have gone backwards at breakneck speed and ironically now decided to back a manager with no proven track record and no evidence he knows what on earth he is doing.
Seeing what he has done at Forest has only confirmed what many were saying regarding his time here. How he was treated was a travesty, we are now seeing the aftermath of that decision. [Post edited 1 May 2022 13:36]
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Genuinely glad you enjoyed.
We all take joy from different things.
For me, without my most miserable time following the club. It’s fine for me to feel like that too. |  | | |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 13:41 - May 1 with 850 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 13:34 - May 1 by Gwyn737 |
Genuinely glad you enjoyed.
We all take joy from different things.
For me, without my most miserable time following the club. It’s fine for me to feel like that too. |
It is, but the reason for that was probably down to the fact it coincided with football being played in empty stadiums where most fans suggest they lost interest in football regardless of team they support.
To finish 6th and 4th, equalling Brendans record in the division is far from miserable from a footballing perspective. But not feeling part of it may well be.
But that isn’t Coopers fault. To get the results he did with peanuts to bring in his own players was remarkable.
Especially when we look at the season before, a manager most people on here rate as one of the best in the country could only manage 10th with the likes of Dan James and Ollie McBurnie leading the line. |  |
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 13:42 - May 1 with 853 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 13:25 - May 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
What do you mean?
What was said at the beginning was “unless we change the tactics, we aren’t going to win many games. These tactics are flawed”.
Which part of that do you disagree with then? |
I was replying to vetchy. |  | | |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 13:43 - May 1 with 849 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 13:26 - May 1 by Gwyn737 |
Totally agree with this.
This season has been excruciatingly frustrating at times and there has been lots of mistakes along the way.
However, playoffs or not I was getting completely disengaged under Cooper. For the first time in over thirty years there were times I didn’t even bother looking for our result until the next day. I was bored senseless for two years.
Well done to him at Forest where he has performed fantastically. Makes absolutely no difference to how I feel about his time as our manager. |
I could have typed that word for word. | | | |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 13:44 - May 1 with 838 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 13:42 - May 1 by Treforys_Jack |
I was replying to vetchy. |
I know.
So I’m asking which part of what the likes of Vetch and myself said do you disagree with. We noted the flaws in the system and said unless it changes then it’s not going to work.
At no point did we say he would never change it, only that he needed to.
Something you appear to agree with now?
Your stance seems a little muddied. [Post edited 1 May 2022 13:45]
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 13:48 - May 1 with 831 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Example from August 18th.
Anything you disagree with here?
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:09 - May 1 with 827 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 13:48 - May 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
Example from August 18th.
Anything you disagree with here?
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It's completely irrelevant what you typed 8mths ago and you're missing the point spectacularly, no-one is saying you weren't proved right in the end, BUT , there was no way of knowing if RM was going to adapt, evolve or tinker with our tactics , style of play or formation. When it's good, it's very very good, but that is too little and not often enough. When it's bad it's a car crash. | | | |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:13 - May 1 with 814 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:09 - May 1 by Treforys_Jack |
It's completely irrelevant what you typed 8mths ago and you're missing the point spectacularly, no-one is saying you weren't proved right in the end, BUT , there was no way of knowing if RM was going to adapt, evolve or tinker with our tactics , style of play or formation. When it's good, it's very very good, but that is too little and not often enough. When it's bad it's a car crash. |
But who said he wasn’t going to?
You seem to be accusing people of saying RM was not going to adapt. Who said that?
What was said, is the tactics don’t work and they won’t work unless changed. It was explained in detail as to why - reasons that still hold water today.
So what was said at the start was absolutely spot on, and absolutely fair. | |
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:22 - May 1 with 809 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:13 - May 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
But who said he wasn’t going to?
You seem to be accusing people of saying RM was not going to adapt. Who said that?
What was said, is the tactics don’t work and they won’t work unless changed. It was explained in detail as to why - reasons that still hold water today.
So what was said at the start was absolutely spot on, and absolutely fair. |
It was supporting the manager when he came in and trying to see what he was doing and his endgame. There were a few , vetchy in particular who slagged him off from day 1 purely because he wasn't Steve Cooper. He then goes on to talk about hypocrisy, which is kind of ironic. | | | |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:37 - May 1 with 791 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:22 - May 1 by Treforys_Jack |
It was supporting the manager when he came in and trying to see what he was doing and his endgame. There were a few , vetchy in particular who slagged him off from day 1 purely because he wasn't Steve Cooper. He then goes on to talk about hypocrisy, which is kind of ironic. |
I don’t remember anyone slagging off Martin or not supporting him. Maybe OHL, but apart from that everyone who was questioning of the style gave genuine and ultimately correct reasoning for that which still stands up to scrutiny today - and none of it was personal.
Of course there is going to be people looking back fondly at a manager that has such excellent results when the next manager comes in and gives us our worst finish in over a decade.
It seems a few people don’t like the fact that some called it very early on and were spot on. It wasn’t a guess or a coincidence - it was explained in great detail, weekly. | |
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 15:06 - May 1 with 767 views | grabsplatter |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 13:43 - May 1 by Treforys_Jack |
I could have typed that word for word. |
Me too, the last couple of seasons have been really frustrating & not particularly enjoyable - but for different reasons. |  | | |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 15:10 - May 1 with 764 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:37 - May 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
I don’t remember anyone slagging off Martin or not supporting him. Maybe OHL, but apart from that everyone who was questioning of the style gave genuine and ultimately correct reasoning for that which still stands up to scrutiny today - and none of it was personal.
Of course there is going to be people looking back fondly at a manager that has such excellent results when the next manager comes in and gives us our worst finish in over a decade.
It seems a few people don’t like the fact that some called it very early on and were spot on. It wasn’t a guess or a coincidence - it was explained in great detail, weekly. |
Re, your first paragraph, yes there were issues but many of us were hoping things would develop and we could see what he was trying to do, unfortunately that stalled fairly early in his tenure, his ego and stubborn nature don't appear to allow him to compromise his vision and blueprint. If he'd learnt or comprimised then we may all be having a very different conversation. There are many on here who's football knowledge I respect and the one thing most had in common was they were saying the same thing, but not immediately, because most people realise teams need to settle into new styles of play and getting used to new arrivals and ways of doing things. You disagreed from the outset, which was your perogative but that didn't guarantee that you'd be proved correct 9mths later. | | | |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 15:35 - May 1 with 736 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 15:10 - May 1 by Treforys_Jack |
Re, your first paragraph, yes there were issues but many of us were hoping things would develop and we could see what he was trying to do, unfortunately that stalled fairly early in his tenure, his ego and stubborn nature don't appear to allow him to compromise his vision and blueprint. If he'd learnt or comprimised then we may all be having a very different conversation. There are many on here who's football knowledge I respect and the one thing most had in common was they were saying the same thing, but not immediately, because most people realise teams need to settle into new styles of play and getting used to new arrivals and ways of doing things. You disagreed from the outset, which was your perogative but that didn't guarantee that you'd be proved correct 9mths later. |
I’m sure we all hoped he would develop, but the point was being made that unless we change the system then nothing will develop. The players we have at our disposal aren’t going to suddenly turn into Rio Ferdinand and De Bruyne.
The way we played (play) is suicidal, self indulgent and had no practical purpose other than trying to get our possession stats up.
Calling it from the outset absolutely guaranteed I would still be right 8 months later. As I said, the points raised were not time specific - being comfortable with a flawed system means you just be some comfortable losing.
If some had to wait for that to be confirmed then that’s on them, others can see things for what they are far earlier, it’s not something that should be attacked. Doff your hat and say fair play to them. | |
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 16:07 - May 1 with 716 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 15:35 - May 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
I’m sure we all hoped he would develop, but the point was being made that unless we change the system then nothing will develop. The players we have at our disposal aren’t going to suddenly turn into Rio Ferdinand and De Bruyne.
The way we played (play) is suicidal, self indulgent and had no practical purpose other than trying to get our possession stats up.
Calling it from the outset absolutely guaranteed I would still be right 8 months later. As I said, the points raised were not time specific - being comfortable with a flawed system means you just be some comfortable losing.
If some had to wait for that to be confirmed then that’s on them, others can see things for what they are far earlier, it’s not something that should be attacked. Doff your hat and say fair play to them. |
Feck me, you're pedantic, you had no idea he wouldn't adapt his tactical approach to games. Are you able to at least admit that? [Post edited 1 May 2022 16:09]
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 16:20 - May 1 with 707 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 16:07 - May 1 by Treforys_Jack |
Feck me, you're pedantic, you had no idea he wouldn't adapt his tactical approach to games. Are you able to at least admit that? [Post edited 1 May 2022 16:09]
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Nothing pedantic about it. I’m telling you that you are wrong in what you are saying and explaining why.
For the third time, nobody said he wouldn’t change the tactics. What was said was this won’t work UNLESS he changes the tactics. Which is something that was spot on at the time and remains spot on now.
There was no assumption that he wouldn’t change the tactics, only the observation that he needed to.
Which part is confusing you there? [Post edited 1 May 2022 16:21]
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 16:28 - May 1 with 695 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 16:20 - May 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
Nothing pedantic about it. I’m telling you that you are wrong in what you are saying and explaining why.
For the third time, nobody said he wouldn’t change the tactics. What was said was this won’t work UNLESS he changes the tactics. Which is something that was spot on at the time and remains spot on now.
There was no assumption that he wouldn’t change the tactics, only the observation that he needed to.
Which part is confusing you there? [Post edited 1 May 2022 16:21]
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Nothing is confusing me so cut out the condescending tone. I wasn't really referring to you anyway as I stated way back in the thread, I was referring to Vetchy who had the knives out from day 1. Feel free to retort as I know you'll be unable to resist as I know your penchant for having the last word, so I'll leave it at that. Hopefully we'll see a more improved and consistent season next year. Have a good day. | | | |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 16:33 - May 1 with 690 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 16:28 - May 1 by Treforys_Jack |
Nothing is confusing me so cut out the condescending tone. I wasn't really referring to you anyway as I stated way back in the thread, I was referring to Vetchy who had the knives out from day 1. Feel free to retort as I know you'll be unable to resist as I know your penchant for having the last word, so I'll leave it at that. Hopefully we'll see a more improved and consistent season next year. Have a good day. |
You called me pedantic, maybe you should cut out that nonsense? To call me pedantic means you have absolutely no understanding of what I’m saying to you. It’s not condescending, I’m asking you where your confusion lies.
You are claiming that those who critiqued this style at the start had a vendetta because they didn’t know if it would be changed or not.
I informed you that those that critiqued at the start said this style won’t work UNLESS it’s changed. Nobody said he wasn’t going to change. It’s a bizarre argument you are making.
If you are annoyed that you didn’t see what others did til long after you should then you really shouldn’t be criticising people for that. You should be recognising that they saw it early if anything.
Weren’t you going on about criticising the fan base yesterday? Take your medicine on this one and call it a day. You don’t have a leg to stand on with this argument. | |
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 16:36 - May 1 with 685 views | vetchonian |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:22 - May 1 by Treforys_Jack |
It was supporting the manager when he came in and trying to see what he was doing and his endgame. There were a few , vetchy in particular who slagged him off from day 1 purely because he wasn't Steve Cooper. He then goes on to talk about hypocrisy, which is kind of ironic. |
I started criticising Martin after 6 games not from day 1 and not because he wasn't, cooper but because the football was dire and results poor yet this board was full of posts purring over how much better things were.
I then researched Martin read the MKDons forum and found interviews and post match presses online...all indicating his stubbornness and ego and idealism which indicated the man was not for changing.
in fairness he has modified tactics despite many on here saying the recent success was the result of everything clicking yet we now no longer pass the ball back to our keeper at kick off and then look to build back from there we pass tge vall forward out to the wing...
I mention hypocrisy and it's been o here all season...the likes of DrP and IgVe beencalled not proper dabs and negative for criticism if Martin despite us getting beaten most games whilst last season it was fine to gave a go at our then manager who was consistently getting positive results | |
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 16:38 - May 1 with 685 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 16:20 - May 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
Nothing pedantic about it. I’m telling you that you are wrong in what you are saying and explaining why.
For the third time, nobody said he wouldn’t change the tactics. What was said was this won’t work UNLESS he changes the tactics. Which is something that was spot on at the time and remains spot on now.
There was no assumption that he wouldn’t change the tactics, only the observation that he needed to.
Which part is confusing you there? [Post edited 1 May 2022 16:21]
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Most recognise you dislike for Martinball. You do not need to re post your old posts we remember them. Proving you posted such comments is redundant and tedious and self indulgent. Exactly what you accuse Martin of.
Martin is a mid table manager much in them mould of Tony Mowbrey who himself has been done with a couple of fearful beatings.
Martin has his excuses which are partially valid
No pre season
Unsuitable player profile
Players learning new skills
Covid
etc
Next season there will be no excuses left.
What is a concern is the loss of the DoF and the signing of further players not suited to the system. Williams, Ntcham, Ogbeta ,Burns, Patterson and Fisher. None of these signing were of the suitable athletic profile required by Martin it seems in terms of defensive resilience and tracking back. | |
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 16:44 - May 1 with 677 views | Whiterockin |
This board has been brilliant for a couple of weeks but has slipped back today. Return of a certain poster a coincidence? |  | | |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 16:45 - May 1 with 676 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 16:38 - May 1 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Most recognise you dislike for Martinball. You do not need to re post your old posts we remember them. Proving you posted such comments is redundant and tedious and self indulgent. Exactly what you accuse Martin of.
Martin is a mid table manager much in them mould of Tony Mowbrey who himself has been done with a couple of fearful beatings.
Martin has his excuses which are partially valid
No pre season
Unsuitable player profile
Players learning new skills
Covid
etc
Next season there will be no excuses left.
What is a concern is the loss of the DoF and the signing of further players not suited to the system. Williams, Ntcham, Ogbeta ,Burns, Patterson and Fisher. None of these signing were of the suitable athletic profile required by Martin it seems in terms of defensive resilience and tracking back. |
Who do you mean by “we”?
The person I posted it for clearly had no idea, hence I showed him. He seemed to suggest that Martin was personally being slagged off from day 1 instead of constructive criticism surrounding the tactics which still hold water to this day.
I don’t have a remit to be entertaining, I do not get paid by this site nor do I have any aims for success on the site. Being self indulgent is perfectly fine as a result and make no apologies for it.
You have only recently changed your tune this week. Not sure if you expected people wouldn’t notice.
None of his excuses have been valid, they have been laughable. Equally as laughable as those repeating them as nauseam. | |
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 17:03 - May 1 with 626 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 17:01 - May 1 by Whiterockin |
One defeat and people crawl out of the woodwork and are quiet when we are on an undefeated run. Nice. |
I was posting before yesterday.
Have another go. Be accurate this time  | |
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 17:05 - May 1 with 624 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 16:45 - May 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
Who do you mean by “we”?
The person I posted it for clearly had no idea, hence I showed him. He seemed to suggest that Martin was personally being slagged off from day 1 instead of constructive criticism surrounding the tactics which still hold water to this day.
I don’t have a remit to be entertaining, I do not get paid by this site nor do I have any aims for success on the site. Being self indulgent is perfectly fine as a result and make no apologies for it.
You have only recently changed your tune this week. Not sure if you expected people wouldn’t notice.
None of his excuses have been valid, they have been laughable. Equally as laughable as those repeating them as nauseam. |
I know exactly what you are and were saying, and yes RM was slagged off from day 1. Deliberate misspelling of his name in every post for example martine I breve vetchy was calling him, virtually from the outset. I don't give a toss about RM , just want us to be as successful AND entertaining as we can be, I'd take Damon Searle or Craig Bellamy as manager if they did a good job, but let's not pretend there wasn't an agenda by some from virtually day 1. You seem to be desperate to defend vetchy when I'm sure he's a good guy and can back himself. | | | |
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