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The one thing I am certain of re this vote is that no-one knows for sure what the repercussions economically will be if we pull out. If you listen to the experts it will be better if we stay in, however its all unconvincing. My issue is that after 10 years of Austerity, the services in this country have been cut to the bone, that is services that are needed by us all - not just Immigrants/benefit spongers. We are not in a position to afford the enormous gamble if it all goes t1ts up. I am taking my lead from Ray Winston and gambling responsibly and staying in. If we ever get to situation when everything is adequately funded and horrible 0 hours contracts were abolished ... then maybe it might be worth the risk to pull out. But to do it now is a massive gamble which we just cannot afford to lose.
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Brexit .... My thoughts... on 22:05 - Jun 21 with 2299 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 21:41 - Jun 21 by distortR
An aside. I believe The EU is under the dominion of big business, as is our current government. People point to the implementation of minimum standards for workers (Albeit the bar is very low) enforced by the eu, However, i was listening to radio 4 this morning and one of the guests was saying that these enforced standards are a boon to big business as the implementation of them is expensive enough to stop smaller business's growing. In my experience, some of this stuff is a paper-chase that does little for the workers. Anyway, a question. Zero-hour contracts, thriving in a britain that is today in the eu. Is this a british phenomenon due to the way we implement these rulings, or are they prevelant across the eu?
[Post edited 21 Jun 2016 21:47]
Dont think they are enforceable in Spain, Spain seems to cherry pick what rules it applies. Spain also charges NHS for ex Pats using their Health Services, which is cheaper than the bill the NHS would get in the UK, but the UK does not back charge Spain or any other EU country for EU Cits in the UK using the NHS, there is a significant element of UK stupidity which never gets discussed. NHS should charge their EU country as others do and are perfectly entitled to. Reciprocal arrangements exist that the UK chooses not to apply losing millions if not billions each year. Down point for the EU they should have outlawed zero hours contracts and didn't because as you say the EU labours under Corporations, but out of the EU Corporations would rape the population, at least in ECHR exists to prevent them doing so. Any alliance of Johnstone and Farage for me with no recourse to stop Corporations running riot on the population is reason alone to stay in. Farage advocating violence and the death of Jo Cox are directly linked. Whatever way he seeks to dress it up. He's got blood on his hands,
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Brexit .... My thoughts... on 22:15 - Jun 21 with 2305 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 22:05 - Jun 21 by Brightonhoop
Dont think they are enforceable in Spain, Spain seems to cherry pick what rules it applies. Spain also charges NHS for ex Pats using their Health Services, which is cheaper than the bill the NHS would get in the UK, but the UK does not back charge Spain or any other EU country for EU Cits in the UK using the NHS, there is a significant element of UK stupidity which never gets discussed. NHS should charge their EU country as others do and are perfectly entitled to. Reciprocal arrangements exist that the UK chooses not to apply losing millions if not billions each year. Down point for the EU they should have outlawed zero hours contracts and didn't because as you say the EU labours under Corporations, but out of the EU Corporations would rape the population, at least in ECHR exists to prevent them doing so. Any alliance of Johnstone and Farage for me with no recourse to stop Corporations running riot on the population is reason alone to stay in. Farage advocating violence and the death of Jo Cox are directly linked. Whatever way he seeks to dress it up. He's got blood on his hands,
Good points re the nhs. I fear an unadulterated tory party, but believe the eu is a huge barrier between the people and real change. but then so are ignorance and a lack of imagination. We're doomed, doomed!
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Brexit .... My thoughts... on 22:30 - Jun 21 with 2263 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 22:15 - Jun 21 by distortR
Good points re the nhs. I fear an unadulterated tory party, but believe the eu is a huge barrier between the people and real change. but then so are ignorance and a lack of imagination. We're doomed, doomed!
haha @ doomed. Damned perhaps. I've always followed Kropotkins regionalism, especially when both Benn and Micheal Foot asked why would go to Brussels to understand coal mining in Newcastle or Tin Mining in Cornwall? Federalism has opened the back door for corporations to essetially sell to a massive population and pay no tax, all of the backs of the people. For me, a rampant Tory b4stard option is even worse, sadly.
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Brexit .... My thoughts... on 23:10 - Jun 21 with 2227 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 22:30 - Jun 21 by Brightonhoop
haha @ doomed. Damned perhaps. I've always followed Kropotkins regionalism, especially when both Benn and Micheal Foot asked why would go to Brussels to understand coal mining in Newcastle or Tin Mining in Cornwall? Federalism has opened the back door for corporations to essetially sell to a massive population and pay no tax, all of the backs of the people. For me, a rampant Tory b4stard option is even worse, sadly.
Oh come on Brighton, you're a good man! Where's yer spirit! Let's organise and get these Tory f4ckers out! Then the world's our oyster!
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Brexit .... My thoughts... on 23:27 - Jun 21 with 2212 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 23:14 - Jun 21 by martincook
Oh come on Brighton, you're a good man! Where's yer spirit! Let's organise and get these Tory f4ckers out! Then the world's our oyster!
I'd settle for sticking a spoke on the wheels and an occasional beating about the head and neck along the lines of a Miners Strike. Anything for a quiet life lol
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Brexit .... My thoughts... on 07:50 - Jun 22 with 2150 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 20:10 - Jun 21 by HollowayRanger
so your happy for Germany to control us ?
Merkel set to ask UK to house MORE migrants? As Germany is to take in 500,000 more asylum seekers
GERMANY will take in around half a million Syrians with family members already living in the country able to apply for asylum to join their relatives.The Federal Office for Migration and Refugees in Berlin (BAMF) said that the loved ones of refugees left behind will be entitled to claim for sanctuary.
Yes, what a terrible thing for the 5th richest country in the world to give sanctuary to a few thousand dispossessed, bombed and tortured people. I'd gladly swap you for a few thousand Syrian migrants.
[Post edited 22 Jun 2016 7:52]
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Brexit .... My thoughts... on 08:22 - Jun 22 with 2131 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 07:50 - Jun 22 by Westy75
Yes, what a terrible thing for the 5th richest country in the world to give sanctuary to a few thousand dispossessed, bombed and tortured people. I'd gladly swap you for a few thousand Syrian migrants.
[Post edited 22 Jun 2016 7:52]
We are not the 5th richest .
We have the 5th largest GDP
I think your last sentence goes against the spirit of this thread TBH
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 07:50 - Jun 22 by Westy75
Yes, what a terrible thing for the 5th richest country in the world to give sanctuary to a few thousand dispossessed, bombed and tortured people. I'd gladly swap you for a few thousand Syrian migrants.
[Post edited 22 Jun 2016 7:52]
It's amazing that some people don't seem to realise that the war ended a few decades ago. The video posted by bosh (Dr Duggan) really highlights the basic error, being that a lot of ill-informed people are seeing it as 'them and us'. We are a big player in the EU, making up one of the 'big 3' with France and Germany, so it's at least partly a case of 'us and us'!
The other thing he states is that there have been lies 'on an industrial scale' from the Leave campaign.
"Thank you for supporting Queens Park Rangers Steep Staircase"... and I thought I'd signed up for a rollercoaster.
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 07:50 - Jun 22 by Westy75
Yes, what a terrible thing for the 5th richest country in the world to give sanctuary to a few thousand dispossessed, bombed and tortured people. I'd gladly swap you for a few thousand Syrian migrants.
[Post edited 22 Jun 2016 7:52]
Is it really that black and white, either way?
The EU knows all about our population projections, and Germany's come to that. They are very different.
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 08:24 - Jun 22 by Mytch_QPR
It's amazing that some people don't seem to realise that the war ended a few decades ago. The video posted by bosh (Dr Duggan) really highlights the basic error, being that a lot of ill-informed people are seeing it as 'them and us'. We are a big player in the EU, making up one of the 'big 3' with France and Germany, so it's at least partly a case of 'us and us'!
The other thing he states is that there have been lies 'on an industrial scale' from the Leave campaign.
His whole career has been built around EU Law , how can he be impartial ??
A fully paid up passenger on the gravy train , hoping for a seat in first class to supplement his pension .
Students are paying 9k a year to listen to that biased drivel
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Brexit .... My thoughts... on 08:44 - Jun 22 with 2094 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 08:44 - Jun 22 by essextaxiboy
Get out of the EU .
Get rid of Corbyn
Then you have a fighting chance of making the world your oyster .
As things are , get some strong cardboard , a stick and a marker pen because protest is all that Labour are .
You may be right. When I say organise, I mean getting together to introduce a suitable democratic system - proportional representation. Labour doesn't need to change its leader or stop protesting to join all the other parties (except the Conservatives, who disagree) and fight the next election on this single issue. After that everyone's a winner, including you, because we won't have to be governed by a group of politicians that fewer than 25% of those eligible actually voted for.
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Brexit .... My thoughts... on 10:23 - Jun 22 with 2015 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 15:56 - Jun 21 by 1BobbyHazell
It's pretty clear that I'm an ardent Outer and yet I can promise you I have not listened to a single speech from Boris or Nigel on the subject.
Why would I? I know who those people are and what (or rather who) they truly represent and my out vote is NOTHING to do with them. No ones vote should be to do with any current politician, they are mere transient (so called) representatives of us. We can get rid of the likes of them immeasurably easier than we can enforced unwanted EU dictates.
Of course they don't really care about the NHS, but then nor do Dave and George so how about we open our minds to what is really possible, however unlikely with the current limited boundaries of political and governance possibilities we seem to be mentally trapped by, and think about what it will really take as a community to do something like save our NHS from the rapacious global markets who have already begun to pick it apart for their own profits that will no doubt be ending up in tax haven accounts as just another part of the current Wealth Grab by those who have most of it all already.
Edit - see Martin's post above. Getting what we really want is going to take so much more than just ticking a box on Thursday, hopefully one good thing that may come out of all this is an increase in people's genuine political activity and awareness. Let's at least start by really holding our 'representatives' to account.
[Post edited 21 Jun 2016 15:59]
Thanks for reply BH.
Most of what you say there is true, but I fear many are intending to vote out on the "promises" and slogans used, most of which are a total nonsense.
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Brexit .... My thoughts... on 10:30 - Jun 22 with 2012 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 20:10 - Jun 21 by HollowayRanger
so your happy for Germany to control us ?
Merkel set to ask UK to house MORE migrants? As Germany is to take in 500,000 more asylum seekers
GERMANY will take in around half a million Syrians with family members already living in the country able to apply for asylum to join their relatives.The Federal Office for Migration and Refugees in Berlin (BAMF) said that the loved ones of refugees left behind will be entitled to claim for sanctuary.
Syria not in the EU and that's all Germany can do, ASK us to take more non EU refugees.
As with all non EU migration (about 50% of the total) OUR politicians have the power to do something about it if they want to.
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Brexit .... My thoughts... on 10:31 - Jun 22 with 2006 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 20:43 - Jun 21 by QPR_John
Well this has been an interesting debate and thankfully only one day to go and let's face it tomorrow this board will be full of the fixture list and the EU referendum will hardly appear. But in reality it has been an academic exercise if there is an out vote we all know either a way will be found to ignore it or more likely there will further referenda until the correct result is obtained
[Post edited 22 Jun 2016 8:02]
As I said in earlier post John, an exit will require an act of parliament - so a way to avoid it is there already!
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Brexit .... My thoughts... on 10:52 - Jun 22 with 1974 views
After weeks of trying to decide I watched the debate last night and seems to me the choice is simple be in the UK out of Europe and run by Boris Johnson or stay in the EU and hope it gets better. To me it's like being given a bowl of dog shit and a plate of horse shit and being told I need to shove my face in one of them. I don't want to do either and whichever i pick I end up with shit on my face
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Brexit .... My thoughts... on 10:57 - Jun 22 with 1966 views
Pantomime politics last night* Hiss/Boo villains...all it needed was Eddie Izzard dressed as Widow Tw*nkey and the whole ghastly tableau would have been complete.
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 10:07 - Jun 22 by martincook
You may be right. When I say organise, I mean getting together to introduce a suitable democratic system - proportional representation. Labour doesn't need to change its leader or stop protesting to join all the other parties (except the Conservatives, who disagree) and fight the next election on this single issue. After that everyone's a winner, including you, because we won't have to be governed by a group of politicians that fewer than 25% of those eligible actually voted for.
Well we had a referendum on PR in 2011 and rejected it 3 to 1 .
I am happy to go by the rules that are agreed .
Corbyn appeals to his supporters only which is unfortunate as he needs millions more than that to have any influence/power .
Milliband has stuffed Labour because the rules say that the existing leader must be on the ballot for a new one . The hard core will just vote him back ...square one.
Labours best bet IMO (and I am a Tory voter) is for Corbyn to bring through his successor , a young articulate person who has Corbyns principles at heart but a pragmatic view for getting into power . Get a squad of similar people around them all banging out the same message , let Corbyn fade away and act like a DOF .
Then voters like me , who believe in market forces but with a social conscience may be tempted to give em a go .
They just have to convince me that they understand that before you can spend a pound you need to earn it ...
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Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:03 - Jun 22 with 1951 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 10:52 - Jun 22 by daveB
After weeks of trying to decide I watched the debate last night and seems to me the choice is simple be in the UK out of Europe and run by Boris Johnson or stay in the EU and hope it gets better. To me it's like being given a bowl of dog shit and a plate of horse shit and being told I need to shove my face in one of them. I don't want to do either and whichever i pick I end up with shit on my face
Boris isnt a done deal IMO .
Best of both worlds , Leave the EU and someone else takes over .
Who , is a debate for Friday and beyond
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Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:21 - Jun 22 with 2469 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 10:52 - Jun 22 by daveB
After weeks of trying to decide I watched the debate last night and seems to me the choice is simple be in the UK out of Europe and run by Boris Johnson or stay in the EU and hope it gets better. To me it's like being given a bowl of dog shit and a plate of horse shit and being told I need to shove my face in one of them. I don't want to do either and whichever i pick I end up with shit on my face
A few words of advice from people who have real experience of what the EU is for and where it's going - much more persuasive than any of last night's mud slinging.
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Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:29 - Jun 22 with 2447 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 10:52 - Jun 22 by daveB
After weeks of trying to decide I watched the debate last night and seems to me the choice is simple be in the UK out of Europe and run by Boris Johnson or stay in the EU and hope it gets better. To me it's like being given a bowl of dog shit and a plate of horse shit and being told I need to shove my face in one of them. I don't want to do either and whichever i pick I end up with shit on my face
Exactly.
Air hostess clique
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Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:48 - Jun 22 with 2410 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:48 - Jun 22 by essextaxiboy
Heres the Turks , Just last night .
0.45 secs on .... Lied to by Cameron just as he is lying to us now .
[Post edited 22 Jun 2016 11:49]
The entire thing has been defined by lies on all sides.
We're now so far through the looking glass that John Barnes had to publish an article today saying he was pro-Remain after Gove publicly claimed he was pro-Brexit.
So a) the opinion of John Barnes is now seen as influential enough to be used in this debate. and b) not even truthfully.
Thank God it's almost over, and roll on human colonisation of Mars.
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