| Heading The Ball 09:18 - Jan 16 with 19643 views | mingthemerciless |
It's just been on the news that school children in Scotland under the age of 12 will be banned from heading the ball in training but not in actual games. Is this the start of heading the ball becoming outlawed ? What would the game look like without heading ? [Post edited 16 Jan 2020 14:46]
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| Heading The Ball on 19:33 - Jan 18 with 2263 views | richfoad32 |
How many kids are regularly heading a ball at an early age anyway? When I take the dog for a walk around the local park Sunday morning there is usually a kids game going on, I'd guess about 10/11 years old and I'm not sure a ban is needed because invariably they do anything they can to avoid getting their head on it anyway and do the old 'turtle neck' at best. Corners barely have the strength to reach the box let alone be at a height to be headed anywhere. I guess there is no point taking chances but at what age is it deemed to be safe for them to start heading it? [Post edited 18 Jan 2020 19:37]
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| Heading The Ball on 19:43 - Jan 18 with 2233 views | nordenblue |
| Heading The Ball on 18:52 - Jan 18 by DiddyDave |
Ok,so how old will kids need to be when it`ll be safe for them to head a football then? Why not go the whole hog and ban kids from playing the game completely,that`ll make it 100% safe,won`t it? But no doubt by the time kids will be allowed to head a ball,a lot will have started smoking and drinking,like we all did,and will eventually die from various cancers and diseases of the liver,not to mention heart attacks and strokes for being overweight through eating American style crap that`s wholly aimed at kids.
Certainly kids will arrive at A&E with a "superficial head collision" for all sorts of reasons,but I bet there`ll be none from heading a modern day football. I`ll leave it at that. |
Dont need to ban kids from playing,just maybe helping to prevent further injuries down the line may be a bright idea if we have the research to prove its necessary?
Or maybe lets just do what the fook we like as we're going to die anyway,brilliant logic | | | |
| Heading The Ball on 20:18 - Jan 18 with 2210 views | kiwidale |
| Heading The Ball on 14:48 - Jan 18 by Shun |
Why are you so reluctant to believe them, these ‘experts’ or ‘idiots’ or whatever you’ll call them next? Studies aren’t performed for fun, they’re stringent and thorough and rigorously reviewed to make sure they earn the reward of being believed. Trust me, I spent the best part of three years doing research and peer-reviewing other studies.
As for head injuries, I had my say earlier in the thread (although you haven’t responded to any of the points I raised). I will add though that I come into contact with head injuries in my profession as a regular occurrence and the after-effects of a seemingly superficial head collision can be devastating. Why would you want to take that chance when it comes to children? |
It's great that we have a trauma specialist on board so how many of the cases you have reviewed resulted from kids heading a football? [Post edited 18 Jan 2020 20:26]
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| Heading The Ball on 20:31 - Jan 18 with 2186 views | pioneer |
| Heading The Ball on 19:43 - Jan 18 by nordenblue |
Dont need to ban kids from playing,just maybe helping to prevent further injuries down the line may be a bright idea if we have the research to prove its necessary?
Or maybe lets just do what the fook we like as we're going to die anyway,brilliant logic |
There the point...we dont have the research to prove that little kids heading the ball causes problems in later life. That research has not been done. | | | |
| Heading The Ball on 20:39 - Jan 18 with 2175 views | D_Alien |
| Heading The Ball on 20:31 - Jan 18 by pioneer |
There the point...we dont have the research to prove that little kids heading the ball causes problems in later life. That research has not been done. |
The growing body of evidence of the damage caused to adults makes it unnecessary to conduct research with youngsters heading a football
Given the adult evidence, would you volunteer your kids/grandkids to take part in a research project as the control group? i.e. the ones given the task of repeatedly heading the ball? |  |
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| Heading The Ball on 20:46 - Jan 18 with 2169 views | nordenblue |
| Heading The Ball on 20:31 - Jan 18 by pioneer |
There the point...we dont have the research to prove that little kids heading the ball causes problems in later life. That research has not been done. |
No but whilst we do have the research to suggest prolonged heading of the ball causes long term damage in later life,I'm guessing it's pretty common sense to suggest eradicating it at an early age can only be a good thing for the future? | | | |
| Heading The Ball on 21:49 - Jan 18 with 2136 views | kiwidale |
| Heading The Ball on 19:33 - Jan 18 by richfoad32 |
How many kids are regularly heading a ball at an early age anyway? When I take the dog for a walk around the local park Sunday morning there is usually a kids game going on, I'd guess about 10/11 years old and I'm not sure a ban is needed because invariably they do anything they can to avoid getting their head on it anyway and do the old 'turtle neck' at best. Corners barely have the strength to reach the box let alone be at a height to be headed anywhere. I guess there is no point taking chances but at what age is it deemed to be safe for them to start heading it? [Post edited 18 Jan 2020 19:37]
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Of course you are right Rich it's a pity that this thread has become so emotive, under 12s generally only head a bouncing ball the idea that they bullet head a cross whipped in at speed is far from the truth as you have witnessed. Any damage if proven is done when kids become adults especially amongst professional footballers. As a final point it will be impossible to prevent kids playing heading in when unsupervised, as kids we played hours on end one crossing the ball another heading the ball often with commentary I was Bobby Charlton. | |
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| Heading The Ball on 22:08 - Jan 18 with 2124 views | fitzochris |
| Heading The Ball on 21:49 - Jan 18 by kiwidale |
Of course you are right Rich it's a pity that this thread has become so emotive, under 12s generally only head a bouncing ball the idea that they bullet head a cross whipped in at speed is far from the truth as you have witnessed. Any damage if proven is done when kids become adults especially amongst professional footballers. As a final point it will be impossible to prevent kids playing heading in when unsupervised, as kids we played hours on end one crossing the ball another heading the ball often with commentary I was Bobby Charlton. |
Your first sentences are wrong, sadly. I’ve experienced this both at Sunday SFA and Pro Youth level. Headers are routinely bulleted in from whipped crosses by under 12s, especially in the latter. |  |
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| Heading The Ball on 22:33 - Jan 18 with 2103 views | nordenblue |
| Heading The Ball on 20:18 - Jan 18 by kiwidale |
It's great that we have a trauma specialist on board so how many of the cases you have reviewed resulted from kids heading a football? [Post edited 18 Jan 2020 20:26]
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More to the point why would you try to belittle someone who obviously knows a damn site more than most(all?)of us about a specific topic,or do you believe your opinion holds more weight than the facts?
Do you write these things just to cause reaction or are you genuinely that dim? | | | |
| Heading The Ball on 22:50 - Jan 18 with 2083 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Heading The Ball on 22:33 - Jan 18 by nordenblue |
More to the point why would you try to belittle someone who obviously knows a damn site more than most(all?)of us about a specific topic,or do you believe your opinion holds more weight than the facts?
Do you write these things just to cause reaction or are you genuinely that dim? |
Mmm which is it? |  |
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| Heading The Ball on 22:51 - Jan 18 with 2078 views | nordenblue |
Bit of both? | | | |
| Heading The Ball on 00:44 - Jan 19 with 2048 views | kiwidale |
| Heading The Ball on 22:33 - Jan 18 by nordenblue |
More to the point why would you try to belittle someone who obviously knows a damn site more than most(all?)of us about a specific topic,or do you believe your opinion holds more weight than the facts?
Do you write these things just to cause reaction or are you genuinely that dim? |
Norden I will call you Dim, fool or idiot at the end of my reply just to prove my points like you have. I asked Shun a question how did that belittle him? I don't know what field Shun is an expert in he hasn't said but if he has done 3 years of research and peer reviews in the damage done by kids heading footballs then I will stand with them hanging. I will admit I lost faith in experts when they tried to tell me that global warming is caused by cows farting and further eroded with the news that there are now 63 different gender types, anybody that believes that nonsense probably did head too many footballs as a kid. If protective headgear is necessary to protect young skulls then by all means lets do it but why stop with under 12s. | |
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| Heading The Ball on 01:08 - Jan 19 with 2037 views | dingdangblue |
| Heading The Ball on 22:08 - Jan 18 by fitzochris |
Your first sentences are wrong, sadly. I’ve experienced this both at Sunday SFA and Pro Youth level. Headers are routinely bulleted in from whipped crosses by under 12s, especially in the latter. |
And how many kids have collapsed with concussion? The world has gone soft or just worried about anything and everything. Weve all played football as kids and I dont ever remember having any issues with heading the ball. At the end of the day if we worried too much we wouldn't leave our homes - everything is bad for you. |  |
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| Heading The Ball on 01:10 - Jan 19 with 2032 views | DiddyDave |
Epilogue. If all you fellas who are worried little Johnny might,just might suffer long term brain damage from heading a plastic ball probably no more than half a dozen times a season,what do you think about said little Johnny who goes home from school and gets bugger all for tea and next to nowt when he goes off to school again in the morning? Off he goes,freezing cold,nowt in his guts,breathing in car fumes,motor bike fumes,truck fumes,et al,is all that not doing any damage to his body and brain? Of course it is,you don`t have to be Einstein to work that out,but what are you "experts" doing about little Johnny and thousands like him who live in abject poverty in what is supposed to be the sixth richest country in the world? Don`t worry about footballs. | | | |
| Heading The Ball on 02:04 - Jan 19 with 2013 views | kiwidale |
| Heading The Ball on 01:10 - Jan 19 by DiddyDave |
Epilogue. If all you fellas who are worried little Johnny might,just might suffer long term brain damage from heading a plastic ball probably no more than half a dozen times a season,what do you think about said little Johnny who goes home from school and gets bugger all for tea and next to nowt when he goes off to school again in the morning? Off he goes,freezing cold,nowt in his guts,breathing in car fumes,motor bike fumes,truck fumes,et al,is all that not doing any damage to his body and brain? Of course it is,you don`t have to be Einstein to work that out,but what are you "experts" doing about little Johnny and thousands like him who live in abject poverty in what is supposed to be the sixth richest country in the world? Don`t worry about footballs. |
This topic has become divisive by the age demographic anybody over 50 is seen as ignorant dim or stupid by those under 40 who see themselves as enlightened and progressive. I cant help notice the abuse is coming from one side. I have a large circle of friends many in my age group most if not all played football at all levels some are still playing, not one of them shows any signs of dementia. I might a hazard a guess that dementia is as prevalent in women as it is in men maybe its just women who headed footballs as kids. It wont be long before the correlation to women with degenerative back problems and skipping as a child is identified. [Post edited 19 Jan 2020 2:18]
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| Heading The Ball on 03:23 - Jan 19 with 2000 views | pioneer |
| Heading The Ball on 20:39 - Jan 18 by D_Alien |
The growing body of evidence of the damage caused to adults makes it unnecessary to conduct research with youngsters heading a football
Given the adult evidence, would you volunteer your kids/grandkids to take part in a research project as the control group? i.e. the ones given the task of repeatedly heading the ball? |
Its not kids repeatedly heading the ball, its professionals and semi professional who are doing it repeatedly and intensively on a daily basis (called a dose-response relationship) Thats why the ‘research’ is comparing professional footballers and folks who were not professional footballers. What % of kids go on to be professional footballers?
Also its not all footballers just that the prevalence has been shown to be greater among ex professional footballers. Another thing not explained by the research is why some ex pros get it and others dont despite similar levels and histories of heading the ball. Could simply be that ones who get it are predisposed to being affected by the condition for other reasons.
So no nobel prize this time D Alien. Must try harder as my teacher used to say. | | | |
| Heading The Ball on 07:21 - Jan 19 with 1970 views | nordenblue |
| Heading The Ball on 00:44 - Jan 19 by kiwidale |
Norden I will call you Dim, fool or idiot at the end of my reply just to prove my points like you have. I asked Shun a question how did that belittle him? I don't know what field Shun is an expert in he hasn't said but if he has done 3 years of research and peer reviews in the damage done by kids heading footballs then I will stand with them hanging. I will admit I lost faith in experts when they tried to tell me that global warming is caused by cows farting and further eroded with the news that there are now 63 different gender types, anybody that believes that nonsense probably did head too many footballs as a kid. If protective headgear is necessary to protect young skulls then by all means lets do it but why stop with under 12s. |
You're that dim/stupid you forgot to call me similar at the end of your post?
You called him a trauma expert,you know that he is or just thought it was another smart arse answer based on very little knowledge? | | | |
| Heading The Ball on 08:09 - Jan 19 with 1962 views | fitzochris |
| Heading The Ball on 01:08 - Jan 19 by dingdangblue |
And how many kids have collapsed with concussion? The world has gone soft or just worried about anything and everything. Weve all played football as kids and I dont ever remember having any issues with heading the ball. At the end of the day if we worried too much we wouldn't leave our homes - everything is bad for you. |
That’s not the point I was making. Kiwi said that kids aged under 12 don’t head the ball from crosses without a bounce. They do. Frequently.
To address your mini rant more directly, I had no issues heading the ball as a kid either. I’ve still got my faculties now. But then again, I don’t head the ball anywhere near as much as I used to. If there is research that has made the SFA concerned enough about the wellbeing of a child enough to introduce a ban on heading the ball, then I’m behind it. What happens after 12, given the way they will now need to be coached up until they are 12, is a whole other debate.
However, as I’m the only one on here this ban currently has an effect on, why not leave me to make my own decision on whether this is best for my child or not? | |
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| Heading The Ball on 08:27 - Jan 19 with 1945 views | D_Alien |
| Heading The Ball on 03:23 - Jan 19 by pioneer |
Its not kids repeatedly heading the ball, its professionals and semi professional who are doing it repeatedly and intensively on a daily basis (called a dose-response relationship) Thats why the ‘research’ is comparing professional footballers and folks who were not professional footballers. What % of kids go on to be professional footballers?
Also its not all footballers just that the prevalence has been shown to be greater among ex professional footballers. Another thing not explained by the research is why some ex pros get it and others dont despite similar levels and histories of heading the ball. Could simply be that ones who get it are predisposed to being affected by the condition for other reasons.
So no nobel prize this time D Alien. Must try harder as my teacher used to say. |
You said no research had been done with youngsters, and i asked if you'd be prepared to let your grandkids take part in such trials, as the ones heading the ball
You declined to answer, so I'll take your bluster as a "no"
[Post edited 19 Jan 2020 8:29]
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| Heading The Ball on 09:02 - Jan 19 with 1906 views | TVOS1907 |
| Heading The Ball on 02:04 - Jan 19 by kiwidale |
This topic has become divisive by the age demographic anybody over 50 is seen as ignorant dim or stupid by those under 40 who see themselves as enlightened and progressive. I cant help notice the abuse is coming from one side. I have a large circle of friends many in my age group most if not all played football at all levels some are still playing, not one of them shows any signs of dementia. I might a hazard a guess that dementia is as prevalent in women as it is in men maybe its just women who headed footballs as kids. It wont be long before the correlation to women with degenerative back problems and skipping as a child is identified. [Post edited 19 Jan 2020 2:18]
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How do you find out the ages of posters on here? |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Heading The Ball on 09:08 - Jan 19 with 1898 views | dingdangblue |
| Heading The Ball on 20:39 - Jan 18 by D_Alien |
The growing body of evidence of the damage caused to adults makes it unnecessary to conduct research with youngsters heading a football
Given the adult evidence, would you volunteer your kids/grandkids to take part in a research project as the control group? i.e. the ones given the task of repeatedly heading the ball? |
Is there growing evidence? Most of the reports I've read are very inconclusive - alcohol seems to be a bigger cause - ban alcohol? | |
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| Heading The Ball on 09:10 - Jan 19 with 1896 views | fitzochris |
| Heading The Ball on 08:27 - Jan 19 by D_Alien |
You said no research had been done with youngsters, and i asked if you'd be prepared to let your grandkids take part in such trials, as the ones heading the ball
You declined to answer, so I'll take your bluster as a "no"
[Post edited 19 Jan 2020 8:29]
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And it’s not necessarily just about dementia. More research is being carried out in that area. It’s more about that it has been proven heading the ball does have immediate effects on the old nutshell.
This has been enough for the SFA to decide that it doesn’t want to subject children under 12 (where heads are still developing) to such impact:
https://www.stir.ac.uk/news/2017/11/stirling-experts-call-for-more-research-into | |
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| Heading The Ball on 09:30 - Jan 19 with 1878 views | D_Alien |
| Heading The Ball on 09:10 - Jan 19 by fitzochris |
And it’s not necessarily just about dementia. More research is being carried out in that area. It’s more about that it has been proven heading the ball does have immediate effects on the old nutshell.
This has been enough for the SFA to decide that it doesn’t want to subject children under 12 (where heads are still developing) to such impact:
https://www.stir.ac.uk/news/2017/11/stirling-experts-call-for-more-research-into |
In addition, it'll be good for youngsters learning the game to keep the ball on the floor as much as possible. The "no heading before 12yo" rule is a sensible precaution, but its also a way of inducting better football skills
No brainer, as they say | |
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| Heading The Ball on 09:41 - Jan 19 with 1867 views | nordenblue |
| Heading The Ball on 02:04 - Jan 19 by kiwidale |
This topic has become divisive by the age demographic anybody over 50 is seen as ignorant dim or stupid by those under 40 who see themselves as enlightened and progressive. I cant help notice the abuse is coming from one side. I have a large circle of friends many in my age group most if not all played football at all levels some are still playing, not one of them shows any signs of dementia. I might a hazard a guess that dementia is as prevalent in women as it is in men maybe its just women who headed footballs as kids. It wont be long before the correlation to women with degenerative back problems and skipping as a child is identified. [Post edited 19 Jan 2020 2:18]
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I'm over 40 does that fit in with your conclusive summary?
It's even more impressive how you apparently know everyone's age based purely on an opinion and their username, simply brilliant | | | |
| Heading The Ball on 09:53 - Jan 19 with 1978 views | kiwidale |
| Heading The Ball on 07:21 - Jan 19 by nordenblue |
You're that dim/stupid you forgot to call me similar at the end of your post?
You called him a trauma expert,you know that he is or just thought it was another smart arse answer based on very little knowledge? |
Unlike you norden I don't need to resort to childish name calling to make my points. I don't know Shun so I have no idea what his area of expertise is but now that I do know I'm sure he knows much more about brain injuries than I will ever know. I'm just not convinced about his conclusion, if that is the case, that dementia is directly related to children heading a ball. I have no problem accepting that Jeff Astles condition as with other professional footballers was partly or wholly due to his profession. It still does not explain why women get dementia? There is no need to answer my question just call me a name stupid dim or both to win the argument and move on. [Post edited 19 Jan 2020 10:45]
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