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Chair jailed for a year on 23:59 - Feb 23 by BucksRanger
How come double jeopardy doesn't enter into this? If the French legal system found there was no case to be answered, why does the Belgian legal system have the right to issue a prison sentence?
I won't bring politics into it but there's this little things called sovereignty that has bee a big issue in the UK recently. It applies to other countries as well, including Belgium. The Belgian legal system is whatever the Belgians want it to be and maybe they simply don't recognise the idea of double jeopardy.
Also, double jeopardy normally applies to not prosecuting someone twice for the same crime so, as the French decided not to prosecute, prosecuting in Belgium probably would not count as double jeopardy anyway.
Whatever the answer, there is obviously something in Belgian law that gave the Belgians the right to prosecute Chair.
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Chair jailed for a year on 08:11 - Feb 24 with 4199 views
Chair jailed for a year on 06:14 - Feb 24 by Padulas_Shampoo
I’m not having a go here but you absolutely said earlier on this thread - quite brazenly and without citation - “the victim was in intensive care with fractured skull - potentially could have been life threatening.”
People could and probably will read this thread, read someone stating that as fact and repeat it to their mates / on their message boards etc etc. And before you know it there are a whole host of people who believe it as fact as they won’t bother to read the details themselves.
The only quotes available are from ‘the Prosecutor’, who has twice used the words “a long time” to describe the length of recovery. Well what’s a long time? That’s entirely subjective. Relative to being discharged immediately, 3 hours is a ‘long time’.
Nobody here is getting any details from medical reports brought to trial by impartial doctors. They’re getting it from the claims of the prosecutor; the very definition of only knowing one side of the story.
We really do barely know anything here - I don’t think there’s any reason to, nor any good to come of adding to the conjecture with assumption.
I said it was reported as such
I write my posts quickly and sometimes don't edit them.
You know my point. No point rehashing it.
I said it was reported "he had a fractured skull, and was said he was critical and in hospital for some time" That was in a few reports, the first time it was brought into the public domain.
Thus is third time you picked me up on being in intensive care.i only said it once but it was in couple of reports. And we all know how inaccurate journalists can be.
Chair jailed for a year on 07:57 - Feb 24 by BerlinR
Ah well, if I really have to say, then it's Bavarian Blue.
Seriously, thanks for explaining the ins and outs of the legal system, it really has filled in a few of the blanks.
Actually, a quick question or comment I suppose… seeing as how you can just be freed during the appeal phase, how does that work with leaving the country?
Maybe it’s okay because he’s high profile and easy to find, but would that be true of anyone? Surely they could just bugger off and hide out somewhere?
[Post edited 24 Feb 8:27]
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Chair jailed for a year on 08:24 - Feb 24 with 4102 views
And I felt the need to post this from page 20: Q28. Do I have to be present [at the trial]? No, unless the court requests your presence. It is, however, generally in your interest to attend court hearings (although this is not a written rule, in practice judges often consider that defendants who do not appear at trial must not care about what they have done, and they may hand down more severe sentences). You should ask your lawyer for advice on your specific situation.
Oops. Apparently gap from trial to appeal normally takes six months or more (they have a backlog ... I mean it could never happen here)
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Chair jailed for a year on 08:25 - Feb 24 with 4093 views
No matter what you think of Chair on a personal level, or whether that’s now changed, and what you think about this case, imo it says an incredible amount for his professionalism that he has solidly remained our best and most hard-working player. Especially in recent weeks when this verdict has been coming closer.
Yes he’s seemed maybe more sullen away from the pitch, understandably, but his commitment on it has remained remarkably level. The rest of this squad really should feel ashamed of their own performances in light of this
Shit but local
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Chair jailed for a year on 08:30 - Feb 24 with 4074 views
Chair jailed for a year on 08:14 - Feb 24 by numptydumpty
I said it was reported as such
I write my posts quickly and sometimes don't edit them.
You know my point. No point rehashing it.
I said it was reported "he had a fractured skull, and was said he was critical and in hospital for some time" That was in a few reports, the first time it was brought into the public domain.
Thus is third time you picked me up on being in intensive care.i only said it once but it was in couple of reports. And we all know how inaccurate journalists can be.
Bit pedantic and pointless
[Post edited 24 Feb 8:23]
It wasn’t in any reports. The only time I’ve seen it claimed is in your post. You made it up. That’s the whole point.
Chair jailed for a year on 08:30 - Feb 24 by Padulas_Shampoo
It wasn’t in any reports. The only time I’ve seen it claimed is in your post. You made it up. That’s the whole point.
Fourth time
Hit by a rock, said was critical and was in hospital a long time. That was in most reports initially. I can't be bothered to revisit all the reports back then but clearly you have.
You saying a long time could be a few hours.
That's how long you in A and E waiting to be seen. Reports can be inaccurate. And journalism is never based on facts extremely regularly. I am not a journalist. Am a poster on a football fans forum.
And I felt the need to post this from page 20: Q28. Do I have to be present [at the trial]? No, unless the court requests your presence. It is, however, generally in your interest to attend court hearings (although this is not a written rule, in practice judges often consider that defendants who do not appear at trial must not care about what they have done, and they may hand down more severe sentences). You should ask your lawyer for advice on your specific situation.
Oops. Apparently gap from trial to appeal normally takes six months or more (they have a backlog ... I mean it could never happen here)
I think this is interesting and pertinent as is the contribution from BerlinR. Although I am not sure why the Belgium system would be anything like the German system except in one fundamental way.
And that is that legal systems in continental Europe tend to be described as ‘inquisitorial’ rather than ‘adversarial’ which is the approach in the UK. Therefore a lot of the assumptions based on how this might pan out in the UK are not going to be remotely relevant to how this goes down in Belgium, it is a very different approach to justice. (This is all in my very limited understanding. I touched upon theories of jurisprudence whilst at university over three decades ago!!)
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Chair jailed for a year on 09:31 - Feb 24 with 3778 views
Chair jailed for a year on 09:04 - Feb 24 by numptydumpty
Fourth time
Hit by a rock, said was critical and was in hospital a long time. That was in most reports initially. I can't be bothered to revisit all the reports back then but clearly you have.
You saying a long time could be a few hours.
That's how long you in A and E waiting to be seen. Reports can be inaccurate. And journalism is never based on facts extremely regularly. I am not a journalist. Am a poster on a football fans forum.
Anymore ??????
[Post edited 24 Feb 9:14]
I think I could say it a thousand times and you wouldn’t see my point.
There hasn’t been any journalism. One Belgian tabloid newspaper has quoted the prosecutor. That’s all. No facts or evidence from the hearing have been reported, just the opinion of the prosecutor.
Even in your last post you state he was hit by a rock. That’s not even true. Read the quotes, they only ever mention a stone. It’s only ever a rock in headlines.
The point I’m trying to make is the farcical lack of facts that have been reported that have so clearly been sensationalised. The quotes allude to someone having thrown a stone. A couple of hours later it’s being discussed that Chair has hit someone in the skull with a rock leaving them in intensive care. You yourself made up that last bit; contributing to the trial by social media.
We know next to nothing and have heard one side of the story. Let’s not embellish any of it or draw conclusions. That’s all I’m saying.
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Chair jailed for a year on 09:47 - Feb 24 with 3690 views
Chair jailed for a year on 09:31 - Feb 24 by Padulas_Shampoo
I think I could say it a thousand times and you wouldn’t see my point.
There hasn’t been any journalism. One Belgian tabloid newspaper has quoted the prosecutor. That’s all. No facts or evidence from the hearing have been reported, just the opinion of the prosecutor.
Even in your last post you state he was hit by a rock. That’s not even true. Read the quotes, they only ever mention a stone. It’s only ever a rock in headlines.
The point I’m trying to make is the farcical lack of facts that have been reported that have so clearly been sensationalised. The quotes allude to someone having thrown a stone. A couple of hours later it’s being discussed that Chair has hit someone in the skull with a rock leaving them in intensive care. You yourself made up that last bit; contributing to the trial by social media.
We know next to nothing and have heard one side of the story. Let’s not embellish any of it or draw conclusions. That’s all I’m saying.
Blimey Padula, if you’re gonna call out all of the embellishments, sensationalist, conclusion-drawing bollócks on this forum, you’re gonna need a bigger boat!
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Chair jailed for a year on 09:49 - Feb 24 with 3675 views
Chair jailed for a year on 09:47 - Feb 24 by Monkey_Roots
Blimey Padula, if you’re gonna call out all of the embellishments, sensationalist, conclusion-drawing bollócks on this forum, you’re gonna need a bigger boat!
Haha 😆 Fair point.
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Chair jailed for a year on 09:49 - Feb 24 with 3671 views
Chair jailed for a year on 08:22 - Feb 24 by Monkey_Roots
Seriously, thanks for explaining the ins and outs of the legal system, it really has filled in a few of the blanks.
Actually, a quick question or comment I suppose… seeing as how you can just be freed during the appeal phase, how does that work with leaving the country?
Maybe it’s okay because he’s high profile and easy to find, but would that be true of anyone? Surely they could just bugger off and hide out somewhere?
[Post edited 24 Feb 8:27]
I guess the court will have done a risk assessment before deciding what restrictions to put on Chair while the process continues. Like you say, they know where he is and the risk of him disappearing is quite low, so they are probably not too bothered about allowing him to leave the country. I imagine in other cases they could put more restrictions in place.
If Chair were t o simply stay in the UK and refuse to go back to Belgium to serve any sentence when the process is finished, the Belgians would no doubt seek his extradition from the UK.
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Chair jailed for a year on 10:16 - Feb 24 with 3509 views
If there was one qpr player to really like at the moment and potentially go down as a great - it’s chair and then this happens! Our club is insane with things like this
I can’t imagine chair being violent and hurting someone to be honest so I will continue to support Chair - there’s something weird about this whole situation
The 15000 euro fine seems very low by way of compensation to someone who allegedly was critically injured in the attack? We only seem to know what the press has put out rather than actual cast iron facts. As people have said, Chair and the club have known about this for several years. The process of this has gone on over several years. I would imagine, but don't know the process in Belgium, that the appeal process will take a number of months to be heard and judged upon. At the moment, with an appeal seemingly in early process, unless Chair is not in the state of mind to play or the club feels some kind of obligation to pull him, I suspect for now it will be business as usual with him playing until a resolution is decided on his fate by appeal?
Chair jailed for a year on 10:19 - Feb 24 by bosh67
The 15000 euro fine seems very low by way of compensation to someone who allegedly was critically injured in the attack? We only seem to know what the press has put out rather than actual cast iron facts. As people have said, Chair and the club have known about this for several years. The process of this has gone on over several years. I would imagine, but don't know the process in Belgium, that the appeal process will take a number of months to be heard and judged upon. At the moment, with an appeal seemingly in early process, unless Chair is not in the state of mind to play or the club feels some kind of obligation to pull him, I suspect for now it will be business as usual with him playing until a resolution is decided on his fate by appeal?
I agree 100 percent with this, but he is now going to be taunted relentlessly when playing away from home.
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Chair jailed for a year on 13:06 - Feb 24 with 2903 views
Chair jailed for a year on 09:31 - Feb 24 by Padulas_Shampoo
I think I could say it a thousand times and you wouldn’t see my point.
There hasn’t been any journalism. One Belgian tabloid newspaper has quoted the prosecutor. That’s all. No facts or evidence from the hearing have been reported, just the opinion of the prosecutor.
Even in your last post you state he was hit by a rock. That’s not even true. Read the quotes, they only ever mention a stone. It’s only ever a rock in headlines.
The point I’m trying to make is the farcical lack of facts that have been reported that have so clearly been sensationalised. The quotes allude to someone having thrown a stone. A couple of hours later it’s being discussed that Chair has hit someone in the skull with a rock leaving them in intensive care. You yourself made up that last bit; contributing to the trial by social media.
We know next to nothing and have heard one side of the story. Let’s not embellish any of it or draw conclusions. That’s all I’m saying.
There were a couple of reports that did
I know you will reply again and say there wasn't though.
If that's what you want to believe. Hey ho...
I won't be reading your reply because you seem hell bent on having last word, which is your issue
Chair jailed for a year on 09:31 - Feb 24 by Padulas_Shampoo
I think I could say it a thousand times and you wouldn’t see my point.
There hasn’t been any journalism. One Belgian tabloid newspaper has quoted the prosecutor. That’s all. No facts or evidence from the hearing have been reported, just the opinion of the prosecutor.
Even in your last post you state he was hit by a rock. That’s not even true. Read the quotes, they only ever mention a stone. It’s only ever a rock in headlines.
The point I’m trying to make is the farcical lack of facts that have been reported that have so clearly been sensationalised. The quotes allude to someone having thrown a stone. A couple of hours later it’s being discussed that Chair has hit someone in the skull with a rock leaving them in intensive care. You yourself made up that last bit; contributing to the trial by social media.
We know next to nothing and have heard one side of the story. Let’s not embellish any of it or draw conclusions. That’s all I’m saying.
You are overlooking quite a big point - that he was found guilty
By a court, not by a newspaper
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Chair jailed for a year on 13:39 - Feb 24 with 2684 views
They had a video of cifiuentes being interviewed and asked about it
[Post edited 24 Feb 13:40]
Thanks for posting and it seemed Marti was not going to say much at all even when slightly pressed on the issue. Its obviously a massive distraction at a bad time for us
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Chair jailed for a year on 15:57 - Feb 24 with 2237 views
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