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OUT WITH A DEAL EATING OUR CAKE AND LOVING IT suck it up remoaners
And like a typical anti democracy remoaner he decided the will of the people should be ignored the minute the democratic result was in total fecking hypocrite 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Despite it being voted in to law by the commons the spineless two faced remoaner MPs have totally abandoned any morals and decided to ignore the will of the British people.
It will be remembered and no election or referendum will ever be the same again in this country.
The one thing that will come is a massive surge in the popularity of UKIP or a similar party in the future who stand for the 52%.
Happy Days.
[Post edited 1 Jan 2021 14:13]
OUT AFLI SUCK IT UP REMOANER LOSERS
🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧
Of course the consumer picks up the bill, same as the Eu consumer would have to pick up the bill, if tariffs were imposed on them.
soooooo, if we import more from the EU than we export to it, who gets hurt the most if we both slap on tariffs? The british voters? or the citizens of the EU republic?
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The Countdown begins. on 17:37 - Mar 28 with 3965 views
If I after to take the medicine then I’d take it. Why do we have to agree to anything so we can have tariff free access ? Believe me they want access to our markets just as much as we want theirs.
As I said I hope the Eu do impose tariffs and we then respond in kind. That may well set of an political earthquake in the Eu. Can you imagine a French farmer, or German carmaker , or Spanish tourist worker being told very sorry you are losing your job and livelihood but we have to punish the Brits and send a warning to others of making the same decision as the British have made.
[Post edited 28 Mar 2018 17:31]
I know you're a big fan of Trump but trade wars aren't actually good and aren't actually easy to win.
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The Countdown begins. on 17:52 - Mar 28 with 3941 views
Come on then explain to me how the Eu will gain from a tariff war with the U.K. ?
You said in one post that we buy more from them than they do from us.
Which as I said, is correct. (As I also said, we sell about 13% of the value of our economy to them, they sell about 3% of the value of theirs to us).
The deficit is approximately £80bn.
You then said that if tariffs are in place, we will gain more revenue from them than the other way round. Which by definition, is nonsense if trade stays the same.
As an example, if we sell them £100, and they sell us £180 (just to make the figures easy), it costs us £80 net.
If a 5% tariff is imposed, we now sell them £105 and they now sell us £189. So it now costs us £84.
It costs us £4 extra for the same exchange of goods.
Now in practice, trade won't stay the same. Your actual argument should have been that if a 5% tariff causes a 10% reduction in trade, that would hurt them more as you would now have us selling £94.5 to them and them selling £170.1 to us, which is now £75.6 net.
But that ignores two things. One is the relative price elasticity of imports and exports (which means that certain goods can go up in price without causing so much of a downturn in demand whereas others go up in price a tiny amount and lead to a big downturn in demand). And the second is that, as I said, our trade with the EU represents 13% of our economy, whereas the other way round, it's 3%. So a reduction in trade of 10% hits us by 1.3% of our economy, and for them hits their economy by only 0.3%.
And although we are now paying £170.1 rather than £189, we still have to purchase the missing goods from elsewhere. We also have to find a place to sell the missing goods we were previously exporting. If there are tariffs in place with those countries, we still lose out in overall terms on that exchange of goods and services.
The reason that tariffs may work, of course, is that the price of imports are now more expensive for us, so we could make them ourselves. That is exactly what Trump is trying to do with Chinese steel. He imposes tariffs in order to make imported steel less attractive and to stimulate the US steel industry. But it costs more for the companies that buy steel (which is why the Dow dropped by 5% immediately after the announcement). And that relies anyway on us having replacements that we can source from within the UK. How long would it take us to set up the manufacturing capability to make our own cars to replace the ones we no longer buy from Germany and France?
Edited to add - i am talking about the impact on the British consumer by the way, as the way tariffs are imposed results in a mismatch between consumer and government. So just to be clear.
[Post edited 28 Mar 2018 18:10]
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The Countdown begins. on 18:14 - Mar 28 with 3907 views
The Countdown begins. on 17:30 - Mar 28 by Batterseajack
Im checking with you, becuase your more knowledgable than me on this, but if the UK were to slap a tariff on EU goods entering this country, it will effectively be the government taxing their own citizens on items purchased from the EU. i.e. the consumer would be paying this, not the exporter. Since we import more from the EU than the export to it, British citizens would pay the most.
[Post edited 28 Mar 2018 17:31]
Yep. It's an internal tax effectively, so because we import more, the British consumer loses out as we pay more in tariffs than the consumers of the other EU countries do.
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The Countdown begins. on 18:20 - Mar 28 with 3901 views
The Countdown begins. on 18:02 - Mar 28 by londonlisa2001
You said in one post that we buy more from them than they do from us.
Which as I said, is correct. (As I also said, we sell about 13% of the value of our economy to them, they sell about 3% of the value of theirs to us).
The deficit is approximately £80bn.
You then said that if tariffs are in place, we will gain more revenue from them than the other way round. Which by definition, is nonsense if trade stays the same.
As an example, if we sell them £100, and they sell us £180 (just to make the figures easy), it costs us £80 net.
If a 5% tariff is imposed, we now sell them £105 and they now sell us £189. So it now costs us £84.
It costs us £4 extra for the same exchange of goods.
Now in practice, trade won't stay the same. Your actual argument should have been that if a 5% tariff causes a 10% reduction in trade, that would hurt them more as you would now have us selling £94.5 to them and them selling £170.1 to us, which is now £75.6 net.
But that ignores two things. One is the relative price elasticity of imports and exports (which means that certain goods can go up in price without causing so much of a downturn in demand whereas others go up in price a tiny amount and lead to a big downturn in demand). And the second is that, as I said, our trade with the EU represents 13% of our economy, whereas the other way round, it's 3%. So a reduction in trade of 10% hits us by 1.3% of our economy, and for them hits their economy by only 0.3%.
And although we are now paying £170.1 rather than £189, we still have to purchase the missing goods from elsewhere. We also have to find a place to sell the missing goods we were previously exporting. If there are tariffs in place with those countries, we still lose out in overall terms on that exchange of goods and services.
The reason that tariffs may work, of course, is that the price of imports are now more expensive for us, so we could make them ourselves. That is exactly what Trump is trying to do with Chinese steel. He imposes tariffs in order to make imported steel less attractive and to stimulate the US steel industry. But it costs more for the companies that buy steel (which is why the Dow dropped by 5% immediately after the announcement). And that relies anyway on us having replacements that we can source from within the UK. How long would it take us to set up the manufacturing capability to make our own cars to replace the ones we no longer buy from Germany and France?
Edited to add - i am talking about the impact on the British consumer by the way, as the way tariffs are imposed results in a mismatch between consumer and government. So just to be clear.
[Post edited 28 Mar 2018 18:10]
I know you like indicators and forecasts, so according to civitas , If the U.K. went for WTO rules, the U.K. would pay around £5.2. Billion in tariffs and the Eu would pay £12.9 billion in tariffs.
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The Countdown begins. on 18:26 - Mar 28 with 3897 views
The Countdown begins. on 18:14 - Mar 28 by londonlisa2001
Yep. It's an internal tax effectively, so because we import more, the British consumer loses out as we pay more in tariffs than the consumers of the other EU countries do.
The British consumer would turn to other less expensive products and would only pay more if they bought the tariff added product, French wine for example hit by a 5 % tariff , just pick up an South African bottle which would be cheaper as no tariff has been imposed on it.
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The Countdown begins. on 18:28 - Mar 28 with 3895 views
I know you like indicators and forecasts, so according to civitas , If the U.K. went for WTO rules, the U.K. would pay around £5.2. Billion in tariffs and the Eu would pay £12.9 billion in tariffs.
And the report went on to explain that the 'cost' is paid by importers not exporters which is as I stated in my previous post.
In other words, it's the UK consumer who pays the £12.9bn they calculated and the EU consumer who pays the £5.2bn. It's neutral for the country overall (government collects what consumer pays).
I've cut and paste below from the report you reference:
"Some commentators on the first edition of this paper noted that we had not explicitly stated that consumers ultimately pay import duties. The purpose of the analysis, as stated in the opening paragraph, was to determine the potential tariff implications for both UK and EU exporters in the event a free trade deal had not been reached by the time the UK exits the European Union. Despite suggestions otherwise, the report does not make an assumption tariffs are paid by exporters.
The failure to explicitly state the fact that tariffs (or customs duties) are paid by the importer is only a result of a failure to realise it needed stating. The fact that tariffs are paid by the importer and, as stated, the value of the tariff is calculated based on the import value (the value the buyer has paid for the good) is not forgotten, and it is the reason the data published was based on import values (See footnote 3). However, the impact of tariffs will be shared by both; the consumer, who will either cover the tariff cost by purchasing the good at a higher price or choose not purchase the product (potentially buying an alternative); and the exporters, who may find that the tariff leads to a fall in demand or who may have to adjust their business model in a way that absorbs the cost and allows them to sell the product at a competitive price despite the tariffs."
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The Countdown begins. on 18:44 - Mar 28 with 3883 views
The British consumer would turn to other less expensive products and would only pay more if they bought the tariff added product, French wine for example hit by a 5 % tariff , just pick up an South African bottle which would be cheaper as no tariff has been imposed on it.
You're assuming we have a free trade agreement with SA.
And assuming that people are that price sensitive. If that was the case no one would buy a German car at the moment because they cost a lot more than cars from Korea.
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The Countdown begins. on 19:03 - Mar 28 with 3855 views
The Countdown begins. on 18:47 - Mar 28 by londonlisa2001
You're assuming we have a free trade agreement with SA.
And assuming that people are that price sensitive. If that was the case no one would buy a German car at the moment because they cost a lot more than cars from Korea.
And maybe the Eu consumers aren’t that price sensitive , therefore U.K. will still be able to sell it’s good and services into the Eu. Win , win.
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The Countdown begins. on 19:07 - Mar 28 with 3850 views
The Countdown begins. on 19:14 - Mar 28 by londonlisa2001
Let me ask you a question.
Which industry do you think is easier to replicate in a different country.
- financial services - car manufacture
That’s irrelevant , because come post Brexit, London will still retain its place as financial Capital of the world.
And as I’ve already said, it’s not all about economics , if it was we may as well get rid of democracy and even governments , and have the CEO’s from BMW , Apple, Microsoft and other multi-nationals make all the decisions for us. Maybe you’d like that.
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The Countdown begins. on 20:37 - Mar 28 with 3796 views
That’s irrelevant , because come post Brexit, London will still retain its place as financial Capital of the world.
And as I’ve already said, it’s not all about economics , if it was we may as well get rid of democracy and even governments , and have the CEO’s from BMW , Apple, Microsoft and other multi-nationals make all the decisions for us. Maybe you’d like that.
It's not irrelevant. It's just uncomfortable for you to answer.
But you're not interested in discussion, just in deflection. So enough.
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The Countdown begins. on 20:42 - Mar 28 with 3792 views
The Countdown begins. on 20:37 - Mar 28 by londonlisa2001
It's not irrelevant. It's just uncomfortable for you to answer.
But you're not interested in discussion, just in deflection. So enough.
it’s not uncomfortable for me, the opposite in fact. I’m very happy that the days of being in the Eu are numbered.
I think it’s you Lisa that’s finding the whole situation rather uncomfortable and it’s you that needs to come to terms with the reality of what is happening .
Enjoy the rest of your evening ðŸ‘
[Post edited 29 Mar 2018 5:51]
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The Countdown begins. on 21:12 - Mar 28 with 3769 views
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