| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... 23:55 - Jan 7 with 11757 views | smegma |
Oh dear....... |  | | |  |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 11:53 - Jan 10 with 1195 views | stevec |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 11:29 - Jan 10 by joe90 |
Thought I'd give my 10 pence worth on the topic. For what it's worth my Dad is from Iran so I have a particular interest.
I'm not a fan of Trump and I'm also not a fan of the nuclear deal. However, Trumps direct approach is a good way of forcing Iran's hand and ultimately bringing them to the negotiation table. Whatever his reason for striking, it does put Iran back in it's place. The Iran regime as it is now isn't a force for good in the region. That's partly due to it's toxic ideology and it's also due to the Arab worlds failure to deal with Israel and it's own colonial legacy.
I don't believe a full on war is likely and in the past there have been numerous incidents that could have led to war that haven't and there's been better opportunities to strike.
When I think about how badly Iranians have treated each other it's overshadows what has been done by America and I just hope now Iran re-assess it's foreign policy and that sanctions eventually topple the regime. |
Good points, well made.
Be interesting to see how those of a Left persuasion wriggle around that one.
Ooh Je-ra-me Core-bin |  | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 11:55 - Jan 10 with 1189 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 11:53 - Jan 10 by stevec |
Good points, well made.
Be interesting to see how those of a Left persuasion wriggle around that one.
Ooh Je-ra-me Core-bin |
Again, you can be critical of Iran AND condemn the attack on it. |  | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 11:57 - Jan 10 with 1182 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
No I do it think Iran should have nuclear weapons. | | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 12:00 - Jan 10 with 1168 views | stevec |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 11:55 - Jan 10 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Again, you can be critical of Iran AND condemn the attack on it. |
...Neatly sidesteps Joe90's points. | | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 12:01 - Jan 10 with 1161 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 11:49 - Jan 10 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I know full well he wouldn’t back Iran and I know full well he doesn’t despise the US.
The only thing I know full well is you had never heard of Suliemeini before last Friday and you would probably struggle to find Iran on a map or your arse with both hands. [Post edited 10 Jan 2020 23:40]
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Haha its back to hurling out insults when you can't make your points properly I see.
Shouldn't you be out on the streets drumming up support for Little Miss Corbyn RLB rather than spouting off on here? |  | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 12:12 - Jan 10 with 1141 views | LythamR |
So the next question is who fired it and on whos's orders |  | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 12:26 - Jan 10 with 1126 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 12:00 - Jan 10 by stevec |
...Neatly sidesteps Joe90's points. |
Don’t know the exact details, but I presume Joe90s dad has been pushed out by this horrendous regime like most of the Iranian exiles that arrived in 1979. His dad has my sincerest sympathy and I’d imagine that the crisis in his homeland is quite upsetting.
Probably wrong of me to lecture while Joe90 is in the forum, and maybe he can correct me but the current regime is our creation. The Shahs who we installed were hated by a lot of people and killed 50,000 protesters in the run up to the revolution. We installed the Shahs because they were willing to privatise the previously nationalised oil and let BP run it.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bp-and-iran-the-forgotten-history/ | | | |
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| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 12:26 - Jan 10 with 1125 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 12:01 - Jan 10 by Ned_Kennedys |
Haha its back to hurling out insults when you can't make your points properly I see.
Shouldn't you be out on the streets drumming up support for Little Miss Corbyn RLB rather than spouting off on here? |
Haha yeah. [Post edited 10 Jan 2020 12:30]
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| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 12:34 - Jan 10 with 1105 views | BucksRanger |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 12:26 - Jan 10 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Haha yeah. [Post edited 10 Jan 2020 12:30]
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Now why did you change your earlier reply?
"Already am mate, It's my job".
Not ashamed of being paid by the party to spout its doctrine? |  | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 12:34 - Jan 10 with 1103 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 12:26 - Jan 10 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Don’t know the exact details, but I presume Joe90s dad has been pushed out by this horrendous regime like most of the Iranian exiles that arrived in 1979. His dad has my sincerest sympathy and I’d imagine that the crisis in his homeland is quite upsetting.
Probably wrong of me to lecture while Joe90 is in the forum, and maybe he can correct me but the current regime is our creation. The Shahs who we installed were hated by a lot of people and killed 50,000 protesters in the run up to the revolution. We installed the Shahs because they were willing to privatise the previously nationalised oil and let BP run it.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bp-and-iran-the-forgotten-history/ |
Fck me now you are an expert on Iranian history and politics too? Is there NOTHING you do not know? (Apart from how to win elections of course) | | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 12:51 - Jan 10 with 1070 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 12:34 - Jan 10 by BucksRanger |
Now why did you change your earlier reply?
"Already am mate, It's my job".
Not ashamed of being paid by the party to spout its doctrine? |
On second thoughts didn’t think it was wise that people know where I work so thanks for taking that option away from me. | | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 12:52 - Jan 10 with 1068 views | stevec |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 12:34 - Jan 10 by Ned_Kennedys |
Fck me now you are an expert on Iranian history and politics too? Is there NOTHING you do not know? (Apart from how to win elections of course) |
Momentum are spewing this stuff out as fast as they can type.
Pie charts, bar charts, chart charts, you name it, the whole nine yards. | | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 12:52 - Jan 10 with 1066 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 12:34 - Jan 10 by Ned_Kennedys |
Fck me now you are an expert on Iranian history and politics too? Is there NOTHING you do not know? (Apart from how to win elections of course) |
It’s part of my degree I’m studying. | | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 13:03 - Jan 10 with 1036 views | MrSheen |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 12:26 - Jan 10 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Don’t know the exact details, but I presume Joe90s dad has been pushed out by this horrendous regime like most of the Iranian exiles that arrived in 1979. His dad has my sincerest sympathy and I’d imagine that the crisis in his homeland is quite upsetting.
Probably wrong of me to lecture while Joe90 is in the forum, and maybe he can correct me but the current regime is our creation. The Shahs who we installed were hated by a lot of people and killed 50,000 protesters in the run up to the revolution. We installed the Shahs because they were willing to privatise the previously nationalised oil and let BP run it.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bp-and-iran-the-forgotten-history/ |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iranian_Revolution |  | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 13:33 - Jan 10 with 994 views | R_from_afar |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 10:49 - Jan 10 by stevec |
Guess the only other option to stop the Japanese was send more British, Russian and American troops to get butchered.
I suppose when 75 million have already lost their lives in WW2, what's another few million?
Sometimes I despair. |
I don't know if you remember the series The World at War but according to that, the US was already relentlessly pouring countless tons of conventional bombs onto Japan before they dropped the A bombs. The Japanese had not surrendered but they were defeated was the message from that TV programme. |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 13:45 - Jan 10 with 971 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 13:33 - Jan 10 by R_from_afar |
I don't know if you remember the series The World at War but according to that, the US was already relentlessly pouring countless tons of conventional bombs onto Japan before they dropped the A bombs. The Japanese had not surrendered but they were defeated was the message from that TV programme. |
I read a biography of Truman some years back, and the chapters on that decision were fascinating. What a harrowing decision to have to make. |  |
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| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 14:01 - Jan 10 with 942 views | MrSheen |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 13:33 - Jan 10 by R_from_afar |
I don't know if you remember the series The World at War but according to that, the US was already relentlessly pouring countless tons of conventional bombs onto Japan before they dropped the A bombs. The Japanese had not surrendered but they were defeated was the message from that TV programme. |
If you’ve never read about it, you should look up the brief and utterly one-sided conflict between Japan and the Soviet Union. Stalin had promised he would go to war with Japan three months after the end of the war in Europe, and he did, two days after the Hiroshima bomb (perhaps brought forward to minimise Soviet President involvement). The Japanese surrendered to the allies on August 16th, but this war kept going...1.5m Soviets against 700,000 Japanese. Hundreds of thousands were killed in the fighting, unknown thousands more in Soviet camps over the next decade, millions of civilians displaced. The Soviets finally declared victory on September 4th, when they had taken back everything they had lost in the 1904-05 war, with the exception of South Korea. That’s another story...
I should add that Japan and Russia are still technically at war. There are always a couple of buses of riot police outside the Russian embassy in Tokyo in case of trouble. [Post edited 10 Jan 2020 14:26]
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| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 14:05 - Jan 10 with 928 views | CLAREMAN1995 |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 12:12 - Jan 10 by LythamR |
So the next question is who fired it and on whos's orders |
Your post opens up so many questions LythamR its going to be ugly once the answers come out if they do.
The missile strike on the US airbases were released hours after the warnings were given so the causalities would be close to zero and defusing the situation for now .
Why then shoot down a civilian airplane full of innocent men women and children who just were in the wrong place .
Why did that Airport not cease operations for the time the strikes were on.
Was it a missile fired at close range to bring down the plane or a missile heading elsewhere just hitting dead on at that exact time and place .
Its all sickening and just like the plane over Lockerbie everybody loses .RIP |  | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 14:06 - Jan 10 with 1431 views | joe90 |
I just want to say, I'm not an expert on this topic and don't want to present myself as one. It's free open, discussion all views should be welcome.
For context, my Dad came to the UK sometime in the early 60'S and has now lived here longer than he has in Iran. He has been very critical of the revolution and does not support current regime at all.
When discussing Iran, I do think he has a blind spot, and the only way I can explain this is to compare it to brexit. If someone from abroad only spoke to a Londoner about the state of the country and brexit they would most likely get a very particular view which would be different to one they'd get from someone who's from a northern brexit voting town.
Being from Tehran, my Dad could be seen as being part of a metropolitan elite who did well under the Shah and is in no way representative of the country as whole.
Strangely enough, I had family that went back to Iran after the revolution which shows that even within a family views can be very different.
Personally I do not view the Shah with rose tinted glass's and I don't support the current regime. But the reality is, the brutal war with Iraq in the 80's allowed the regime to kill off a lot of internal agitators and breed a young, battle hardened generation that views the west with great distrust.
The Israel situation is significant because it's an ideal quasi religious cause the regime can anchor it's foreign policy around. But it's also a bit of smokescreen because in my view it's more about self preservation than an actual hatred of Israel.
I don't believe Iran has the capability of building nuclear weapons, I think this has been created by the regime as a bargaining chip which other countries have lapped. Having 'peaceful negotiations' makes everyone look good but makes little to no meaningful change.
I don't think Trump is smart enough to have thought through a cunning strategy for this attack, but inadvertently his simple world view and approach might actually work?
As the west becomes less dependent on oil, the main regional players(Iran, Turkey and Israel) will ultimately decide the fate of the Middle East.
Regarding Corbyn, it seems to me he dislikes the US/UK more than he cares about the people of the Middle East. He has taken money from the Iranian regime which is an endorsement and is a very problematic issue if we're to take him seriously. |  | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 14:20 - Jan 10 with 1391 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 14:01 - Jan 10 by MrSheen |
If you’ve never read about it, you should look up the brief and utterly one-sided conflict between Japan and the Soviet Union. Stalin had promised he would go to war with Japan three months after the end of the war in Europe, and he did, two days after the Hiroshima bomb (perhaps brought forward to minimise Soviet President involvement). The Japanese surrendered to the allies on August 16th, but this war kept going...1.5m Soviets against 700,000 Japanese. Hundreds of thousands were killed in the fighting, unknown thousands more in Soviet camps over the next decade, millions of civilians displaced. The Soviets finally declared victory on September 4th, when they had taken back everything they had lost in the 1904-05 war, with the exception of South Korea. That’s another story...
I should add that Japan and Russia are still technically at war. There are always a couple of buses of riot police outside the Russian embassy in Tokyo in case of trouble. [Post edited 10 Jan 2020 14:26]
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Never heard anything about that, never taught it, and never thought about it.
How strange. | |
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| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 14:23 - Jan 10 with 1382 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 14:06 - Jan 10 by joe90 |
I just want to say, I'm not an expert on this topic and don't want to present myself as one. It's free open, discussion all views should be welcome.
For context, my Dad came to the UK sometime in the early 60'S and has now lived here longer than he has in Iran. He has been very critical of the revolution and does not support current regime at all.
When discussing Iran, I do think he has a blind spot, and the only way I can explain this is to compare it to brexit. If someone from abroad only spoke to a Londoner about the state of the country and brexit they would most likely get a very particular view which would be different to one they'd get from someone who's from a northern brexit voting town.
Being from Tehran, my Dad could be seen as being part of a metropolitan elite who did well under the Shah and is in no way representative of the country as whole.
Strangely enough, I had family that went back to Iran after the revolution which shows that even within a family views can be very different.
Personally I do not view the Shah with rose tinted glass's and I don't support the current regime. But the reality is, the brutal war with Iraq in the 80's allowed the regime to kill off a lot of internal agitators and breed a young, battle hardened generation that views the west with great distrust.
The Israel situation is significant because it's an ideal quasi religious cause the regime can anchor it's foreign policy around. But it's also a bit of smokescreen because in my view it's more about self preservation than an actual hatred of Israel.
I don't believe Iran has the capability of building nuclear weapons, I think this has been created by the regime as a bargaining chip which other countries have lapped. Having 'peaceful negotiations' makes everyone look good but makes little to no meaningful change.
I don't think Trump is smart enough to have thought through a cunning strategy for this attack, but inadvertently his simple world view and approach might actually work?
As the west becomes less dependent on oil, the main regional players(Iran, Turkey and Israel) will ultimately decide the fate of the Middle East.
Regarding Corbyn, it seems to me he dislikes the US/UK more than he cares about the people of the Middle East. He has taken money from the Iranian regime which is an endorsement and is a very problematic issue if we're to take him seriously. |
Thanks, Joe.
A lot there to think about. | |
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| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 14:27 - Jan 10 with 1366 views | jonno |
Plenty of questions but doubtful if we’ll get many answers. The Iranians are already obfuscating and apparently destroying evidence. |  | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 14:31 - Jan 10 with 1353 views | MrSheen |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 14:20 - Jan 10 by BrianMcCarthy |
Never heard anything about that, never taught it, and never thought about it.
How strange. |
It’s very weird. Apparently the last Japanese PoWs weren’t allowed home until 1993! There were also a lot of Korean slave forestry workers on Sakhalin island when the Soviets invaded. They were allowed to go back to Korea, but only to the North. Some refused and stayed on. A few finally went back to the South in the 1990s. | | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 14:33 - Jan 10 with 1349 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 14:06 - Jan 10 by joe90 |
I just want to say, I'm not an expert on this topic and don't want to present myself as one. It's free open, discussion all views should be welcome.
For context, my Dad came to the UK sometime in the early 60'S and has now lived here longer than he has in Iran. He has been very critical of the revolution and does not support current regime at all.
When discussing Iran, I do think he has a blind spot, and the only way I can explain this is to compare it to brexit. If someone from abroad only spoke to a Londoner about the state of the country and brexit they would most likely get a very particular view which would be different to one they'd get from someone who's from a northern brexit voting town.
Being from Tehran, my Dad could be seen as being part of a metropolitan elite who did well under the Shah and is in no way representative of the country as whole.
Strangely enough, I had family that went back to Iran after the revolution which shows that even within a family views can be very different.
Personally I do not view the Shah with rose tinted glass's and I don't support the current regime. But the reality is, the brutal war with Iraq in the 80's allowed the regime to kill off a lot of internal agitators and breed a young, battle hardened generation that views the west with great distrust.
The Israel situation is significant because it's an ideal quasi religious cause the regime can anchor it's foreign policy around. But it's also a bit of smokescreen because in my view it's more about self preservation than an actual hatred of Israel.
I don't believe Iran has the capability of building nuclear weapons, I think this has been created by the regime as a bargaining chip which other countries have lapped. Having 'peaceful negotiations' makes everyone look good but makes little to no meaningful change.
I don't think Trump is smart enough to have thought through a cunning strategy for this attack, but inadvertently his simple world view and approach might actually work?
As the west becomes less dependent on oil, the main regional players(Iran, Turkey and Israel) will ultimately decide the fate of the Middle East.
Regarding Corbyn, it seems to me he dislikes the US/UK more than he cares about the people of the Middle East. He has taken money from the Iranian regime which is an endorsement and is a very problematic issue if we're to take him seriously. |
I’d love to hear what your dad thinks about Mossadegh who was the last elected Head of State in Iran, and who nationalised the petro industry there.
Definately an inaccurate portrayal of Jeremy. He was paid by Press TV after being invited on. He’s been very critical of the Iranian government but sadly this isn’t newsworthy. I’ve seen plenty of right wing MPs speak on Al Jazeera for example but no one seems to want to ask questions about links to the Qataris or Saudis 🤷â€â™‚ï¸
I hope your family are well over there. [Post edited 10 Jan 2020 14:57]
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