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Terry's trial to start on Monday. Yet another thing to look forward to, Sadly, apparently the maximum he can get is a small fine. However, the humiliation will be a laugh.
Football fans found guilty of racism can be banned from going to football grounds for a while. Wouldn't it be funny if Terry received a football ground ban!!!
John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 17:50 - Jul 10 by Hunterhoop
Of course they do. The law is and always will be subjective.
There's tv footage (from more angles than the public have seen), lip readers verifying what they are "certain" was said and a key witness (AF) saying he did not accuse Terry of calling him at BC at the time and that had he thought he'd been called that or heard Terry's alleged comment he would certainly not have shaken his hand. This is also why he didn't report it straight away...he only knew about it when he saw it on YouTube.
Terry's defence is well the video might not show context, lip reading isn't accurate, JT has black colleagues, AF is lying.
All of that is desperate and explains away nothing.
The video clearly shows the phrase "I didn't call you a" did not preceed "BC" and it would be implausible for to have preceded the other insults before and be a genuine sentiment.
Discrediting lip reading when cross examining the lip reader in question is frankly stupid given she faultlessly deciphered what the lawyer said and explained she has only translated what she is "certain" was said, omitting what she is unsure about.
The I have black mates defence is irrelevant because the case isn't about being racist it's about making a racist slur. They are separate issues. Just because one doesn't act out their life with a belief in the inherent superiority of one race or creed over another, doesn't preclude them from using race or creed as an intended term of abuse.
Finally, what evidence have the defence produced to show AF to be a liar? None. That accusation is unfounded and you can't denounce witness evidence in a court of law simply by saying "the witness is a liar...I can't give you evidence of this or prove it, but they are".
As things stand - who knows what's to come - Terry will be found guilty of the offence in question.
Hunter they have looked at stacks of footage from many sources and it's still not clear, why do you think the attempt was made to throw out the case this morning (it was never going to happen)
Ferdinand has been proven to be inconsistent in his statements whist Terry has been consistent, at that point who do you believe ? Terry cooperated with authorities from day 1 Ferdinand was elusive and as mentioned inconsistent.
I'm repeating myself but the two lip readers did not agree on what they saw but both agreed that it was not an exact science and that the context could not be identified.
Don't forge t the magistrate has to satisfy himself that there is no reasonable doubt, I would suggest at this point he has plenty, as much as you would like to think he hasn't.
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John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 18:12 - Jul 10 with 1372 views
John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 18:00 - Jul 10 by Jamie
Dont be so daft. If there was absolutely nothing in the magistrates eyes of worth presented so far he would've thrown it out with a lengthy narrative explaining why he had done so.
As said by Norf, he will probably be found 'not guilty' but you are in complete denial if you believe the case has continued to 'appease the masses'.
...or perhaps you're in denial if you believe that each case is treated equally regardless of whether it's under the spotlight or not....let's just agree to disagree.
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John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 18:12 - Jul 10 with 1369 views
John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 18:08 - Jul 10 by Speediesdouble
Hunter they have looked at stacks of footage from many sources and it's still not clear, why do you think the attempt was made to throw out the case this morning (it was never going to happen)
Ferdinand has been proven to be inconsistent in his statements whist Terry has been consistent, at that point who do you believe ? Terry cooperated with authorities from day 1 Ferdinand was elusive and as mentioned inconsistent.
I'm repeating myself but the two lip readers did not agree on what they saw but both agreed that it was not an exact science and that the context could not be identified.
Don't forge t the magistrate has to satisfy himself that there is no reasonable doubt, I would suggest at this point he has plenty, as much as you would like to think he hasn't.
Did you know you cannot see gravity either. That means it might not exist
ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead
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John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 18:15 - Jul 10 with 1357 views
"I'm repeating myself but the two lip readers did not agree on what they saw but both agreed that it was not an exact science and that the context could not be identified."
You are repeating mistruths.
Only 1 lipreader has given her opinion on the footage and she was CERTAIN that it was 'you fcking black cnt'. She even refused to give an opinion on other parts of the footage as she couldnt be certain about them.
The DEFENCE's lipreader said that lipreading was highly innacurate (imagine that) and the prosecutions lipreader said merely that it was not an exact science and could not be 100% relied upon.
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John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 18:16 - Jul 10 with 1355 views
John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 18:15 - Jul 10 by Jamie
"I'm repeating myself but the two lip readers did not agree on what they saw but both agreed that it was not an exact science and that the context could not be identified."
You are repeating mistruths.
Only 1 lipreader has given her opinion on the footage and she was CERTAIN that it was 'you fcking black cnt'. She even refused to give an opinion on other parts of the footage as she couldnt be certain about them.
The DEFENCE's lipreader said that lipreading was highly innacurate (imagine that) and the prosecutions lipreader said merely that it was not an exact science and could not be 100% relied upon.
I think you'll find there are a number of people blogging and tweeting about the case. I read yesterday that the defences lip reader had said that she could not be certain if "a" or "you" preceded BC, the rest is as you said....mistruth ? I am not there and neither are you so can only go on the info we are fed.
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John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 18:29 - Jul 10 with 1323 views
I've only just joined this thread and i think it would be a good idea if we cared less. Nobody is looking good coming out of this and the fact that John Terry is a total c**t is beyond dispute. He is a global c**t phenomenon, a brand ambassador for c**t. So why worry?...
John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 18:08 - Jul 10 by Speediesdouble
Hunter they have looked at stacks of footage from many sources and it's still not clear, why do you think the attempt was made to throw out the case this morning (it was never going to happen)
Ferdinand has been proven to be inconsistent in his statements whist Terry has been consistent, at that point who do you believe ? Terry cooperated with authorities from day 1 Ferdinand was elusive and as mentioned inconsistent.
I'm repeating myself but the two lip readers did not agree on what they saw but both agreed that it was not an exact science and that the context could not be identified.
Don't forge t the magistrate has to satisfy himself that there is no reasonable doubt, I would suggest at this point he has plenty, as much as you would like to think he hasn't.
No. You're wrong.
The footage does show clearly what was said. Terry admits what was said.
The defence disputes the context (ie replying to an accusation).
The prosecution brings forward a professional, deaf, lip reader to testify what she is "certain" was said. Her account contradicts the defence's argument.
The prosecution calls forward a witness (AF). His evidence contradicts the defence and makes logical sense (see previous explanation in previous post)
Defence then say lip reading in general is not full proof. No one disagrees with this bit it's an irrelevant point given earlier witness removes anything she wasn't 100% sure was full proof in her translation.
Defence say AF is inconsistent/liar, but have brought nothing conclusive to the table hear at all. They have just made an unsubstantiated claim.
If you're the magistrate, you see a case where all agree what was said but differ on why. Imagine this took place in the street, was spotted by a CCTV camera and the defence's argument was as this is. A magistrate would have no quarms finding a guilty verdict when the defence is effectively: "Nah Guv, I was just telling him "I didn't call you a BC", he's lying Guv, the lip reader doesn't know what she's talking about, the CCTV doesn't catch me saying "I didn't call you a", I'm a good guy, etc, etc". The magistrate would just think that defence is pathetic. Terry has paid a lot of money to a lawyer to help improve a weak defence. The Magistrate will see through it. He'd have had more chance with a jury.
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John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 18:45 - Jul 10 with 1293 views
John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 18:32 - Jul 10 by Hunterhoop
No. You're wrong.
The footage does show clearly what was said. Terry admits what was said.
The defence disputes the context (ie replying to an accusation).
The prosecution brings forward a professional, deaf, lip reader to testify what she is "certain" was said. Her account contradicts the defence's argument.
The prosecution calls forward a witness (AF). His evidence contradicts the defence and makes logical sense (see previous explanation in previous post)
Defence then say lip reading in general is not full proof. No one disagrees with this bit it's an irrelevant point given earlier witness removes anything she wasn't 100% sure was full proof in her translation.
Defence say AF is inconsistent/liar, but have brought nothing conclusive to the table hear at all. They have just made an unsubstantiated claim.
If you're the magistrate, you see a case where all agree what was said but differ on why. Imagine this took place in the street, was spotted by a CCTV camera and the defence's argument was as this is. A magistrate would have no quarms finding a guilty verdict when the defence is effectively: "Nah Guv, I was just telling him "I didn't call you a BC", he's lying Guv, the lip reader doesn't know what she's talking about, the CCTV doesn't catch me saying "I didn't call you a", I'm a good guy, etc, etc". The magistrate would just think that defence is pathetic. Terry has paid a lot of money to a lawyer to help improve a weak defence. The Magistrate will see through it. He'd have had more chance with a jury.
Mate believe want you want to believe, but i've read enough on the case to see that there is little clarity in what was said, both in what Terry said and when Ferdinand was alleged to have said that Terry called him a BC.
As for the context that's the crux of the case !
In your opinion he will definetly be found guilty then ? IMO based on what has come out to date, no chance. However as I said earlier maybe there will be some damning evidence further down the line.
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John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 19:06 - Jul 10 with 1248 views
John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 17:22 - Jul 10 by Speediesdouble
The defence have claimed that Ferdinand was trying to wind up Terry and that Ferdinand accusing Terry of calling him a BC was a continuation of the wind up, Terry responded by repeating the phrase.
I have no idea what the truth is but then again neither have the countless on here that are certain that Terry is guilty.
if he did just repeat the phrase why have no players backed his story up saying they heard Ferdinand and why if he is so shocked and upset is he seen laughing and saying yeah yeah at the start of the clip.
He'll always deny it but the evidence is pretty clear
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John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 19:18 - Jul 10 with 1221 views
Perhaps Anton was elusive because he knew the stick he would get and rightly or wrongly never initially wanted to get involved hence why HE never raised the complaint.
After being the target of a racial slur (the victim) the Chelsea fans at there next match in Europe chose to sing inappropriate songs about him as well as booing him at the FA cup and league game at the bridge.
Again this is after him being a victim so no wonder he was initially elusive
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John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 19:21 - Jul 10 with 1212 views
John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 19:17 - Jul 10 by daveB
if he did just repeat the phrase why have no players backed his story up saying they heard Ferdinand and why if he is so shocked and upset is he seen laughing and saying yeah yeah at the start of the clip.
He'll always deny it but the evidence is pretty clear
If he was repeating the phrase why did he follow the racist remark with you f*cking knobhead? That suggests to me a more confrontational tone.
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John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 19:28 - Jul 10 with 1193 views
John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 18:08 - Jul 10 by Speediesdouble
Hunter they have looked at stacks of footage from many sources and it's still not clear, why do you think the attempt was made to throw out the case this morning (it was never going to happen)
Ferdinand has been proven to be inconsistent in his statements whist Terry has been consistent, at that point who do you believe ? Terry cooperated with authorities from day 1 Ferdinand was elusive and as mentioned inconsistent.
I'm repeating myself but the two lip readers did not agree on what they saw but both agreed that it was not an exact science and that the context could not be identified.
Don't forge t the magistrate has to satisfy himself that there is no reasonable doubt, I would suggest at this point he has plenty, as much as you would like to think he hasn't.
Terry cooperated with authorities from day 1 Ferdinand was elusive and as mentioned inconsistent.
If someone sent me a bullet in the post i would be elusive as well..........
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John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 19:43 - Jul 10 with 1846 views
John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 19:06 - Jul 10 by eghamranger
Any idea who the off duty police officer who made the allegation? I assume he is a rangers fan.
Egham,this is the mystery within the drama that intrigues me.
I assume that because of possible death or violence threats this off duty police officer (ODPO) and crucial instigator of the whole affair will have his identity protected. (If that's not the case what a sensation if he was called as a witness.)
But if he was at LR and heard something why would he do the unprofessional act of leaking or releasing what he heard & saw to another party who then stuck it on YouTube instead of going straight to his superiors? Or did he do that and the busies then checked the Sky tv company footage? When precisely after the match ..7-8pm?.. did Anton's girlfriend show him the footage? How does this all connect up?
I was at LR @ 10am today finally paying for my ST when I met a mate of little Vic Stevenson's of LSA fame who was of a chatty ITK sort of nature.At that time not knowing of the off-duty copper I asked him who had made the complaint and he said it was 2 women who were with kids who heard it.That could be all utter gossipy BS,of course,but I still want to know why it all came to light and why the ODPO didn't keep it all under wraps. So here I am; Baffled and Confused of Askew Road.
Can anyone come up with a feasible convincing thesis as to an outline of events from 6pm on the 23rd of October?
'I'm 18 with a bullet.Got my finger on the trigger,I'm gonna pull it.."
Love,Peace and Fook Chelski!
More like 20StoneOfHoop now.
Let's face it I'm not getting any thinner.
Pass the cake and pies please.
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John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 19:49 - Jul 10 with 1828 views
John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 17:41 - Jul 10 by Speediesdouble
Somehow I don't think his QC's line of questioning has anything to do with Terry other than the QC's way of trying to prove his case.
Has it crossed your imagination that Terry is telling the truth and that Ferdinand was trying to wind him up ? if Terry is found not guilty will you accept that Ferdinand was a c*** for doing that ?
there is no way to prove Terry is telling the truth, there is no evidence to back his side of the story up so if he is cleared it will be on guesswork rather than any actual proof. He'll probably get off as he has a good legal team and his story can provide doubt but from what i have seen of the footage it's pretty clear what he meant and what he said
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John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 19:53 - Jul 10 with 1818 views
Can't believe the bit where Terry claims again he's never been acused of racism before! The dude must have literally no memory. I suppose if you and your family spend a big proportion of you life exhibiting scummy behaviour, you might start to block it out of your mind?
Also - didn't he shake Ferdinand's hand at the end of the game?
I wonder why they wouldn't let Terry answer if he thought "BC" was a racial slur or not? Especially with what they are saying its been meant as e.g. merely repeating something.
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John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 20:11 - Jul 10 with 1763 views
John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 19:53 - Jul 10 by QPR1882
Can anyone come up with a feasible convincing thesis as to an outline of events from 6pm on the 23rd of October?
I was in the BQ at 6pm,gets very fuzzy after that.........
Ah just a quiet night for me after the day of that game.The Missus had me on a yellow card anyways for overdoing the lash so it was a nice warming mug of ovaltine and a slice of bakewell tart..plum tuckered out I was,filled my hot water bottle & hit the hay early.. was probably asleep by aroung 9:10pm.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
'I'm 18 with a bullet.Got my finger on the trigger,I'm gonna pull it.."
Love,Peace and Fook Chelski!
More like 20StoneOfHoop now.
Let's face it I'm not getting any thinner.
Pass the cake and pies please.
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John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 20:51 - Jul 10 with 1708 views
John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 17:27 - Jul 10 by Phildo
If he is found guilty things having been weighed up will you accept he is a bit of a c### for what he has instructed his barrister to do to Anton Ferdinand over the last day or so?
And he'll get a piddly fine what a waste of time
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John Terry goes on trial this Monday on 20:55 - Jul 10 with 1688 views
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