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Woking (A) Match Thread on 08:26 - Aug 16 by ChaffRAFC
We shot ourselves in the foot last night unfortunately and didn't react well enough to different situations in the game.
But that being said, I've seen enough positives out of the first three games to suggest we'll be ok I think.
We're still very adjusting to life in the National League so it's disappointing seeing a few very harsh reactions. I think there's several things you have to consider, which may come across as excuses to some, but so be it, I think they're genuinely fair points:
The transition to the league - You only have to look at how long it took the likes of Scunthorpe and Oldham to get to grips with the league last season, and one of them didn't manage it. The other are now one of the title favourites, signing players on big wages and we've got as many points as they have so far. They won't be panicking.
The standard of officiating has definitely dropped, as you'd expect. We were denied a clear penalty in the opening game and I'd like to see the first Woking goal again last night because it didn't look over the line on the TV and there's no doubt that Kyle Ferguson got clattered and should have had a free kick.
The squad is a completely new one! Only 3 players who were with us last season started the game last night and we've made 12 new signings this summer there are 22 players who played for the club last season who aren't here this season when you include loans as well. It's the most transitional transfer window I can remember and it's going to take time for partnerships and relationships to build. We're also working on the lowest budget we have in years and have off-field issues going on in the background.
We're on 3 points from 3 games, we should be on 5 points minimum given how the games have gone, but given all the above, I didn't see us even getting 3 points by this stage. We're in a better position than I thought we would be and so far, my worries of back to back relegations have very much eased and I don't think we're far away at all from being able to push on, when we've managed to get to grips with the league.
I'm with you brother, although I don't want us see us take too long about it. And us on matchday, switch from any training ground pace to a side that plays with urgency and a fierce will to win and protect.
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Woking (A) Match Thread on 10:11 - Aug 16 with 3689 views
Couldnt go last night but my son did and confirmed what I thougt before.
We have no serious strikers. With Henderson having a serious leg injury and presumably missing a few matches- he shouldnt have been playing last night- we must sign a couple of proper strikers this week. Mitchell cant cut it.
Surely some young loan strikers must be available, like the big lad we had from Wolves a couple of years ago.
No strikers puts more pressure on midfield and defence and gives massive confidence to the opposition once theyve worked us out.
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Woking (A) Match Thread on 10:37 - Aug 16 with 3581 views
Hopefully Rodney will be fit for Saturday, but I agree about Mitchell, he may be the new Calvin Andrews. I would like an additional striker, but have we the money to do so. Good news, Humphreys sub appearance last night, Should mean an additional payment from Wigan.
I understand resting Nevett last night, if he is getting tired, but it did not required him to alter the whole defence, he could have just brought either Ferguson or Oduroh in and moved Keohane to either centre or left back. instead he dropped Nevett and John, and brought Oduroh and Ferguson, result a defence that was disorganised. Which is not in my humble opinion, good or sensible management.
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Woking (A) Match Thread on 11:02 - Aug 16 with 3474 views
Woking (A) Match Thread on 08:26 - Aug 16 by ChaffRAFC
We shot ourselves in the foot last night unfortunately and didn't react well enough to different situations in the game.
But that being said, I've seen enough positives out of the first three games to suggest we'll be ok I think.
We're still very adjusting to life in the National League so it's disappointing seeing a few very harsh reactions. I think there's several things you have to consider, which may come across as excuses to some, but so be it, I think they're genuinely fair points:
The transition to the league - You only have to look at how long it took the likes of Scunthorpe and Oldham to get to grips with the league last season, and one of them didn't manage it. The other are now one of the title favourites, signing players on big wages and we've got as many points as they have so far. They won't be panicking.
The standard of officiating has definitely dropped, as you'd expect. We were denied a clear penalty in the opening game and I'd like to see the first Woking goal again last night because it didn't look over the line on the TV and there's no doubt that Kyle Ferguson got clattered and should have had a free kick.
The squad is a completely new one! Only 3 players who were with us last season started the game last night and we've made 12 new signings this summer there are 22 players who played for the club last season who aren't here this season when you include loans as well. It's the most transitional transfer window I can remember and it's going to take time for partnerships and relationships to build. We're also working on the lowest budget we have in years and have off-field issues going on in the background.
We're on 3 points from 3 games, we should be on 5 points minimum given how the games have gone, but given all the above, I didn't see us even getting 3 points by this stage. We're in a better position than I thought we would be and so far, my worries of back to back relegations have very much eased and I don't think we're far away at all from being able to push on, when we've managed to get to grips with the league.
Agree with plenty of this Chaff, and although I'm not AS worried about the prospect of back-to-back relegations as I was a few weeks ago, I still see us as a real soft touch who are all too easy to beat. The only team we have beaten so far is Oxford City, who according to the bookmakers at least are comfortably the worst team in the league (500/1 for promotion, no other team any longer than 150/1).
Their third goal was a great example of a team taking advantage of a negative moment for the opposition. Ferguson off the pitch, they got the ball forward, into the box and scored. A few moments earlier, when one of their players was down with an injury in the middle of the pitch, we played four or five sideward passes and eventually won ourselves a throw-in around the half-way line. I know it's such a small thing in the context of the game but it sums us up, we're still lacking the ruthless touch required of a decent football team.
Ebbsfleet showed the ruthless touch of a winning team by closing the game out well when they went ahead against us. We had a couple of half-decent chances and potentially could've got a point there so they weren't exactly perfect, but in comparison when we were in the same situation last night we capitulated and made several silly, naive mistakes. I don't think Ebbsfleet have better players than us, but I do think they'll finish above us because they have that mentality - something we've not had since about 2016 and something we need to find sooner rather than later if we want this season to even be a moderate success.
We need to be more ruthless and more direct - both of our goals came from the kind of balls that turned their defence around - something we didn't do enough of over the course of the 90 minutes. And that goes for when we get in crossing positions too - perhaps the best two chances we've had this season that we haven't scored from (Keohane's headers last night and vs Ebbsfleet) have come from whipped crosses, and yet we continually waste chances to whip the ball into the box - partly because the wingers themselves are making poor decisions and playing passes inside but also partly because that's where our 6'2 striker is coming short to receive the ball rather than being an actual target in the box.
If we don't wise up quickly, a lot of street-smart teams will take points from us this season without even really needing to play all that well.
Tangled up in blue.
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Woking (A) Match Thread on 11:05 - Aug 16 with 3468 views
I think there is a difference between looking at a game in isolation and looking at it with the perceived hysteria and negativity surrounding all of our games. It’s important to look at games in isolation, as otherwise you end up down the bloody rabbit hole of who is at fault for the fact we are at this level in the first place etc etc.
There is a recurring cliché that is already grating with me, and the commentators last night were guilty of it: ‘Rochdale are finding out what life in the National League is all about!’
No, we’re not. What happened last night is what football is all about – and it isn’t confined to the fact we are in the National League.
McNulty veered away from 4-4-2 for this one, electing to instead try a 4-3-3. I applaud him for this because I reckon he knew we were not coming up against a team that would sit in a deep block and he proactively tried to prepare for this.
I’m not overly familiar with Woking’s squad, but it seemed to me Sarll himself was trialling something new with his own starting XI, but the experiment left his side lopsided and full of gaps, which we were quick to exploit in the first half. The midfield three were able to find the wide positions and, with a little more directness, we could have opened the scoring before we actually did.
If anything, after Sinclair scored, we should have gone on to aggressively press the Woking players’ clear discomfort with their own system. If we had, we may have then gone into the break with more than a one-goal advantage.
The inevitable half-time changes by the home side proved decisive ones, and, quite simply, we failed to adapt to the formational balance and shift in intensity now displayed by Woking.
So, for all the ranting on social media about the officiating (and I still haven’t watched the goals back, so I can’t say for certain one way or the other if they were the right calls), we needed to take care of our own game first and foremost and we didn’t. McNulty himself acknowledged this post match. We should have enforced the game in the Woking half instead of being pinned back, and we should have made changes sooner to counter their intensity. Okay, we now know Henderson was carrying a knock, but Nevitt came on too late for my money.
None of this is unique to the National League. It’s about savvy and streetwise players and management. Will we get it right before we run out of games? I believe so, as we are already doing some the more important aspects well. If we can meld those traits into being a bit more direct and purposeful, we will start to get more out of games.
I do believe we are missing an out-and-out forward, however. I’m not sure how long Rodney is out for, and we cannot rely on Henderson to do what he did five years ago, never mind 10. We need to pull off a loan signing here, in my opinion, in the way we have Ryan East in midfield. Someone who is maybe not catching in a League One/Two first XI. It could be the key.
Woking (A) Match Thread on 08:26 - Aug 16 by ChaffRAFC
We shot ourselves in the foot last night unfortunately and didn't react well enough to different situations in the game.
But that being said, I've seen enough positives out of the first three games to suggest we'll be ok I think.
We're still very adjusting to life in the National League so it's disappointing seeing a few very harsh reactions. I think there's several things you have to consider, which may come across as excuses to some, but so be it, I think they're genuinely fair points:
The transition to the league - You only have to look at how long it took the likes of Scunthorpe and Oldham to get to grips with the league last season, and one of them didn't manage it. The other are now one of the title favourites, signing players on big wages and we've got as many points as they have so far. They won't be panicking.
The standard of officiating has definitely dropped, as you'd expect. We were denied a clear penalty in the opening game and I'd like to see the first Woking goal again last night because it didn't look over the line on the TV and there's no doubt that Kyle Ferguson got clattered and should have had a free kick.
The squad is a completely new one! Only 3 players who were with us last season started the game last night and we've made 12 new signings this summer there are 22 players who played for the club last season who aren't here this season when you include loans as well. It's the most transitional transfer window I can remember and it's going to take time for partnerships and relationships to build. We're also working on the lowest budget we have in years and have off-field issues going on in the background.
We're on 3 points from 3 games, we should be on 5 points minimum given how the games have gone, but given all the above, I didn't see us even getting 3 points by this stage. We're in a better position than I thought we would be and so far, my worries of back to back relegations have very much eased and I don't think we're far away at all from being able to push on, when we've managed to get to grips with the league.
I don't really disagree with any of that Chaff but I think as a fanbase we are just utterly worn out by the amount of games we have lost in the last 5/6 seasons, and we've heard every excuse/reason under the sun for it. So I don't really blame anyone for their reactions. I think its also difficult to put a result in to context when I would wager most of us have no real idea about the opposition we are facing. The fanbase, sadly, also has to adjust to the level we are now at and can't just say "we should be beating x" just because we are historically bigger than them.
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Woking (A) Match Thread on 12:20 - Aug 16 with 3227 views
The post by Atthepeake, sums up the Dale, when he posts; 'Their third goal was a great example of a team taking advantage of a negative moment for the opposition. Ferguson off the pitch, they got the ball forward, into the box and scored. A few moments earlier, when one of their players was down with an injury in the middle of the pitch, we played four or five sideward passes and eventually won ourselves a throw-in around the half-way line. I know it's such a small thing in the context of the game but it sums us up, we're still lacking the ruthless touch required of a decent football team.'
Yes we are not ruthless enough and that will cost us in the long run, it is alright to play the passing game, but when the teams lack any urgency or are not incisive it can cost us.
I have watched the highlights of the game and replayed a number of times the key moments, firstly the officials seemed poor, for the second goal, the referee through the ball to the Woking player, I thought it should have been a bounce up. The first goal looked a good save by Moulden, I have my doubts that it crossed the line. The penalty was never a penalty, the ball seem to hit is foot, while Keohane was sliding in to stop the cross, it did not appear to hit his arm. Yes, I may appear to sound bias, but if it was a penalty I would have openly admit so, I can see why McNulty seemed a bit miffed with the officials.
[Post edited 16 Aug 2023 15:33]
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Woking (A) Match Thread on 16:01 - Aug 16 with 2802 views
Woking (A) Match Thread on 11:48 - Aug 16 by Will_RAFC
I don't really disagree with any of that Chaff but I think as a fanbase we are just utterly worn out by the amount of games we have lost in the last 5/6 seasons, and we've heard every excuse/reason under the sun for it. So I don't really blame anyone for their reactions. I think its also difficult to put a result in to context when I would wager most of us have no real idea about the opposition we are facing. The fanbase, sadly, also has to adjust to the level we are now at and can't just say "we should be beating x" just because we are historically bigger than them.
I've been a supporter since 1987, and I'm currently quite frustrated with the situation. My concern isn't primarily about our position or the league we are in, but more about the prevailing culture. BBM established a certain tone at the top, favoring a "tippy-tappy" its not about results style of football. This approach has continued under McNulty. The managerial changes from last season haven't been beneficial either.
I often come across comments from other supporters saying, "could've, should've, would've... if only the referee..." and so on. However, we are where we are, and every team deals with the same officials.
In my opinion, McNulty isn't showing leadership qualities needed to be a football manager. As for his substitutions, well, lets just say Elvis could do better and he has been dead 40 years.
Final question or observation - when was the last time we scored from a corner or freekick?... ah remember Jason Peake and his perma tan?
Woking (A) Match Thread on 11:02 - Aug 16 by AtThePeake
Agree with plenty of this Chaff, and although I'm not AS worried about the prospect of back-to-back relegations as I was a few weeks ago, I still see us as a real soft touch who are all too easy to beat. The only team we have beaten so far is Oxford City, who according to the bookmakers at least are comfortably the worst team in the league (500/1 for promotion, no other team any longer than 150/1).
Their third goal was a great example of a team taking advantage of a negative moment for the opposition. Ferguson off the pitch, they got the ball forward, into the box and scored. A few moments earlier, when one of their players was down with an injury in the middle of the pitch, we played four or five sideward passes and eventually won ourselves a throw-in around the half-way line. I know it's such a small thing in the context of the game but it sums us up, we're still lacking the ruthless touch required of a decent football team.
Ebbsfleet showed the ruthless touch of a winning team by closing the game out well when they went ahead against us. We had a couple of half-decent chances and potentially could've got a point there so they weren't exactly perfect, but in comparison when we were in the same situation last night we capitulated and made several silly, naive mistakes. I don't think Ebbsfleet have better players than us, but I do think they'll finish above us because they have that mentality - something we've not had since about 2016 and something we need to find sooner rather than later if we want this season to even be a moderate success.
We need to be more ruthless and more direct - both of our goals came from the kind of balls that turned their defence around - something we didn't do enough of over the course of the 90 minutes. And that goes for when we get in crossing positions too - perhaps the best two chances we've had this season that we haven't scored from (Keohane's headers last night and vs Ebbsfleet) have come from whipped crosses, and yet we continually waste chances to whip the ball into the box - partly because the wingers themselves are making poor decisions and playing passes inside but also partly because that's where our 6'2 striker is coming short to receive the ball rather than being an actual target in the box.
If we don't wise up quickly, a lot of street-smart teams will take points from us this season without even really needing to play all that well.
"A few moments earlier, when one of their players was down with an injury in the middle of the pitch, we played four or five sideward passes and eventually won ourselves a throw-in around the half-way line."
Go to 4:48; we actually created a chance which Gilmour should have at least got on target.
When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf?
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Woking (A) Match Thread on 16:21 - Aug 16 with 2753 views
Woking (A) Match Thread on 16:01 - Aug 16 by wheniwasyourage
I've been a supporter since 1987, and I'm currently quite frustrated with the situation. My concern isn't primarily about our position or the league we are in, but more about the prevailing culture. BBM established a certain tone at the top, favoring a "tippy-tappy" its not about results style of football. This approach has continued under McNulty. The managerial changes from last season haven't been beneficial either.
I often come across comments from other supporters saying, "could've, should've, would've... if only the referee..." and so on. However, we are where we are, and every team deals with the same officials.
In my opinion, McNulty isn't showing leadership qualities needed to be a football manager. As for his substitutions, well, lets just say Elvis could do better and he has been dead 40 years.
Final question or observation - when was the last time we scored from a corner or freekick?... ah remember Jason Peake and his perma tan?
Our last goal from a corner was in the final game of last season at home to Sutton - Jimmy Keohane's header.
Our last goal from a free-kick was from Aaron Morley, at MK Dons, in the final game of the 2020/21 League One relegation season.
When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf?
0
Woking (A) Match Thread on 16:30 - Aug 16 with 2731 views
Woking (A) Match Thread on 16:11 - Aug 16 by TVOS1907
"A few moments earlier, when one of their players was down with an injury in the middle of the pitch, we played four or five sideward passes and eventually won ourselves a throw-in around the half-way line."
Go to 4:48; we actually created a chance which Gilmour should have at least got on target.
Fair enough - unless there was another instance where their player went down that I was getting confused with then I completely misremembered that!
Still think in general the points stand that we lack a ruthlessness (at both ends of the pitch) that other teams seem to have against us.
Noticeable how poor Moulden did in the highlights too. His drop for the chance they somehow didn't convert in the first half under zero pressure is really bad, then he's impeded by Ebanks-Landell for their first goal but should be more commanding/vocal and arguably should've come to collect the cross earlier in the move where Ferguson brings their player down for what should've been a penalty.
Tangled up in blue.
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Woking (A) Match Thread on 16:34 - Aug 16 with 2721 views
Woking (A) Match Thread on 16:01 - Aug 16 by wheniwasyourage
I've been a supporter since 1987, and I'm currently quite frustrated with the situation. My concern isn't primarily about our position or the league we are in, but more about the prevailing culture. BBM established a certain tone at the top, favoring a "tippy-tappy" its not about results style of football. This approach has continued under McNulty. The managerial changes from last season haven't been beneficial either.
I often come across comments from other supporters saying, "could've, should've, would've... if only the referee..." and so on. However, we are where we are, and every team deals with the same officials.
In my opinion, McNulty isn't showing leadership qualities needed to be a football manager. As for his substitutions, well, lets just say Elvis could do better and he has been dead 40 years.
Final question or observation - when was the last time we scored from a corner or freekick?... ah remember Jason Peake and his perma tan?
The style of play really isn't all that similar to BBM's though. I feel like some of our fans decided this was the case months ago without actually watching how Jim's team play.
Tangled up in blue.
4
Woking (A) Match Thread on 16:43 - Aug 16 with 2693 views
Woking (A) Match Thread on 16:34 - Aug 16 by AtThePeake
The style of play really isn't all that similar to BBM's though. I feel like some of our fans decided this was the case months ago without actually watching how Jim's team play.
I'd agree with that. Look at our first goal last night, for example.
When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf?
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Woking (A) Match Thread on 17:03 - Aug 16 with 2624 views
Woking (A) Match Thread on 16:43 - Aug 16 by TVOS1907
I'd agree with that. Look at our first goal last night, for example.
It was interesting that McNulty says in his interviews that the goals were two moments when we did what we’ve been working on. One a keeper’s clearance, the other a ball in behind the defence from midfield. If that’s the case then it’s obvious we need to look forward more quickly!
Even looking back at Ebbsfleet that was when we looked at our best, and for the erasure of any doubt it doesn’t mean ‘hoofing it up’, it’s playing possession football but looking to get the ball into the strikers.
Gary Neville was talking on Sky the other night about the changes in modern football, with a comparison made to the United teams he played in when they all knew to get the ball into forward players as quickly as possible. Nobody ever accused a Ferguson team of being long ball or even anything but a ‘proper football’ team, so there’s no reason why, despite the changes in the game, we can’t look to that as a real option. The games so far illustrate that we look more dangerous when we look to be direct with our play.
Just watched Boreham Wood v Solihull (having bought a monthly pass). Two big strong teams who play with pace and get the ball in the box. Solihull's young keeper very good.
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