| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC 18:42 - Apr 30 with 6990 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
"I thought we were excellent today, the game plan came off perfectly.
"We were very happy for Swansea to have the ball, we wanted to control the game without the ball, which we did brilliantly.
"5-1 is obviously a great result, but to be honest it could have been more, it should have been 5-1 at half-time.
"We know Swansea have a lot of the ball, but also knew they also concede a hell of a lot of chances and a hell of a lot of goals."
No one can argue with that. Martin is not adapting after similar away thrashings at Fulham Sheff Utd and Bournemouth. 2 or 3 signings are not going to solve it. Grimes and Downes are highly rated defensive midfielders. 27 shots 13 on target. Not sustainable. Martins changes made it worse not better.
Swansea lost to QPR in the FA cup 5-1. Declan John, Asoro and McKay never kicked the ball for Swansea again.
[Post edited 30 Apr 2022 18:44]
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 23:29 - May 2 with 957 views | STID2017 |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 20:11 - May 2 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I do not mind at all if you do not read any or part of my posts. My posts counteract contrived narratives created by anonymous forum posters which have harmed the Trust, owners, past owners and reputation of the club as a whole.
I expect some abuse of course and spin. I had not noticed you had been away.
Potter struggled early in his tenure at home you might remember introducing a new style and not very good players he signed. I recall a defeat at home against Ipswich who were bottom 2-3.
The following season Cooper had a very poor spell at home September 2019 to the end of the year after beating Leeds away . Several loses and drab performances at home to Forest, Stoke, Brentford , Millwall and boring draws Barnsely, Blackburn and Reading . Big loses loses away to Brentford and WBA culminating in a 5-1 thrashing at QPR in the FA cup.
Coopers Swansea picked up with Guehi Brewster and Gallagher arriving. [Post edited 2 May 2022 20:13]
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Even after Guehi, Brewster and Gallagher arrived, it is fair to say that our form wavered, often dropping out of the top 6.
In fact afte beating Bristol City at home, we had played 45 matches and were in 7th.
Only a crazy win for us at Reading, coupled with an equally crazy home defeat for Forest, got us into the play offs.
A very up and down season, with very little consistency, apart from hitting 1st place in the early matches |  |
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 00:08 - May 3 with 927 views | jasper_T |
Brewster's first game was against Cardiff on the 12th of January. Our results between then and the season stopping in March were DWL DLD DWL DD. 12 points in 11 games. We were on a worrying trajectory even with the new signings.
Gallagher joined on the 15th. Guehi's debut was the 2-0 defeat against Stoke on the 25th. [Post edited 3 May 2022 0:08]
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 00:24 - May 3 with 915 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 22:57 - May 2 by Dr_Parnassus |
Nope, completely correct. Form goes up and down all season, that’s football. As stated we were top after 10 games without them - we maintained 6th position with them.
Cooper has had continuous improvement throughout his career. It’s a theme in his 3 seasons.
Season 1 - 1.53 points per game. 6th. Play off semi
Season 2 - 1.74 points per game. 4th. Play off Final
Season 3 - 2.08 points per game. 3rd. ?????
The best manager in the league by some considerable distance.
What do you mean it was a pity? You have been saying it was good for the club that he left. This isn’t another about turn is it? |
It is good he left because his heart was not in it facing a lower transfer budget and less elite loans from his England spell. He was under contract. | |
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 00:45 - May 3 with 901 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 00:24 - May 3 by ReslovenSwan1 |
It is good he left because his heart was not in it facing a lower transfer budget and less elite loans from his England spell. He was under contract. |
Lower transfer budget?
He spent on average £1.1m per season when he was here.
This season we have spent nearly £6m alone.
This season we have signed probably the most elite of loans we have for some time with the acquisition of Rhys Williams from Liverpool.
9 Premier League appearances (most of them, if not all, were starts), 6 Champions League games and a handful of League Cup games.
You said it was good that he left, his heart not being in it is only a recently added reason from you. You said we would be more successful with Martin’s style.
You were so confident you even manipulated the facts and did that comparison thing between them, after cancelling out Coopers good start and Martin’s bad start - remember. How did that work out in the end? |  |
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 08:26 - May 3 with 862 views | onehunglow |
Cooper now Potter;now some luminary explain the relevance of this absurdity.
Boys, we have messed up ,we are upset,angry and frustrated. Look in the mirror and be honest. You can post positive I am a super fan garbage but please I beg you do not fool yourself.
YOU DESERVE BETTER.We all do. | |
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 12:47 - May 3 with 793 views | STID2017 |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 08:26 - May 3 by onehunglow |
Cooper now Potter;now some luminary explain the relevance of this absurdity.
Boys, we have messed up ,we are upset,angry and frustrated. Look in the mirror and be honest. You can post positive I am a super fan garbage but please I beg you do not fool yourself.
YOU DESERVE BETTER.We all do. |
Not sure what the reference to Potter is about there ?
As I have posted elsewhere there probably needs to be more balanced views.
Especially from you, Dr P and AC.
We have had low moments this season, but as I have said before, rather be following us than Barnsley, Derby or Peterborough | |
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 13:34 - May 3 with 785 views | vetchonian |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 12:47 - May 3 by STID2017 |
Not sure what the reference to Potter is about there ?
As I have posted elsewhere there probably needs to be more balanced views.
Especially from you, Dr P and AC.
We have had low moments this season, but as I have said before, rather be following us than Barnsley, Derby or Peterborough |
Personally I only follow us...
I ve been wound up this season as I truly beleive we are better than where we fiind ourselves in the league..yes we have had some great moments of football this season we did too last season... they are forgotten and lost in all the dissapointing bits of Coopers reign not helped by us not being at the ground...I keep saying it it would have been onteresting to see peoples atitiude etc had we still onlly be able to watch this season game o at home on a screen? | |
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:01 - May 3 with 775 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 00:45 - May 3 by Dr_Parnassus |
Lower transfer budget?
He spent on average £1.1m per season when he was here.
This season we have spent nearly £6m alone.
This season we have signed probably the most elite of loans we have for some time with the acquisition of Rhys Williams from Liverpool.
9 Premier League appearances (most of them, if not all, were starts), 6 Champions League games and a handful of League Cup games.
You said it was good that he left, his heart not being in it is only a recently added reason from you. You said we would be more successful with Martin’s style.
You were so confident you even manipulated the facts and did that comparison thing between them, after cancelling out Coopers good start and Martin’s bad start - remember. How did that work out in the end? |
This is data manipulation which you specialise in, and, simply compares transfer fees. There was the issue of loan fees and Ayew's wages of £4m which could have been mitigated.
The £6m appears on the face of it a much better long term investment. Piroe, Obafemi Downes have all increased their valuation even in s depressed market.
Cooper did well but had in his first season two current England international in his ranks on loan. This was not sustainable. He left once this temporary manipulation could not be repeated.
I felt the actual finishing table would be a decent guide to the qualities of each manager taking to account the disturbance of the first ten or so games. Martin claimed he needed transition development time due to the technical nature of his methods. After 12 games the teams were bang level. This was one valid approach.
Cooper has beaten Martin hands down and Martin now talks about deficiencies in 'athleticism' and rather than needing time on the training field and many other reasons for substandard defensive performance. The two Forest defeats 4-5 month apart show no development whatsoever. He has too many signings which do not improve athleticism and Allen has 'carried the can' for this. How has Ntcham improved athleticism he cannot play 90 minutes.
How did it work out?. Cooper has done far better than i expected. I an not alone in this. There were 30,000 Forest fans in the same boat for sure. He had two golden period as Swansea but could not sustain them. Martin has done averagely in a Tony Mowbrew type way. Some impressive wins but some bad big defeats. probably a bit less than i expected.
His words on Saturday suggest a logic deficit Mr Winter and the new DoF will need to test out. He said Swansea had control at H-T at 1-1. This was bogus with already 7 shots on the Swansea goal and 6 other off target. He did not change the game dynamics and lost the second half 0-4 with the same so called "control" and another 10 shots on the Swansea goal. Martin had no control of any part of the game.
I seems to me Garrick in particular is young and athletic. Tall strong 23 or 24 and a sprinter and improving in conditioning and heading the ball. Swansea needed to wrestle some control on Saturday at half time but physically and mentally were unable to compete. | |
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:09 - May 3 with 758 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:01 - May 3 by ReslovenSwan1 |
This is data manipulation which you specialise in, and, simply compares transfer fees. There was the issue of loan fees and Ayew's wages of £4m which could have been mitigated.
The £6m appears on the face of it a much better long term investment. Piroe, Obafemi Downes have all increased their valuation even in s depressed market.
Cooper did well but had in his first season two current England international in his ranks on loan. This was not sustainable. He left once this temporary manipulation could not be repeated.
I felt the actual finishing table would be a decent guide to the qualities of each manager taking to account the disturbance of the first ten or so games. Martin claimed he needed transition development time due to the technical nature of his methods. After 12 games the teams were bang level. This was one valid approach.
Cooper has beaten Martin hands down and Martin now talks about deficiencies in 'athleticism' and rather than needing time on the training field and many other reasons for substandard defensive performance. The two Forest defeats 4-5 month apart show no development whatsoever. He has too many signings which do not improve athleticism and Allen has 'carried the can' for this. How has Ntcham improved athleticism he cannot play 90 minutes.
How did it work out?. Cooper has done far better than i expected. I an not alone in this. There were 30,000 Forest fans in the same boat for sure. He had two golden period as Swansea but could not sustain them. Martin has done averagely in a Tony Mowbrew type way. Some impressive wins but some bad big defeats. probably a bit less than i expected.
His words on Saturday suggest a logic deficit Mr Winter and the new DoF will need to test out. He said Swansea had control at H-T at 1-1. This was bogus with already 7 shots on the Swansea goal and 6 other off target. He did not change the game dynamics and lost the second half 0-4 with the same so called "control" and another 10 shots on the Swansea goal. Martin had no control of any part of the game.
I seems to me Garrick in particular is young and athletic. Tall strong 23 or 24 and a sprinter and improving in conditioning and heading the ball. Swansea needed to wrestle some control on Saturday at half time but physically and mentally were unable to compete. |
No data manipulation at all.
Let me remind you what you claimed.
Claim: “It is good he left because his heart was not in it facing a lower transfer budget “.
“Lower transfer budget” you said. So what has Ayews legacy salary (which hampered Cooper no end) got to do with anything? A salary of an existing player is not part of a transfer budget. It may well reduce the transfer budget of course - which it did.
As for loan fees, they were next to nothing and surely offset (or close to) fees paid for loans this season - Wolf, Laird, Christie, Williams and Burns. Brewster was free for example. I think the only one that cost a bit was Hourihane, but it wouldn’t have been that much being a semi season one.
You are speaking with me now Resolven, you don’t get away with slack posting. Hit your marks. [Post edited 3 May 2022 14:18]
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:14 - May 3 with 758 views | vetchonian |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:01 - May 3 by ReslovenSwan1 |
This is data manipulation which you specialise in, and, simply compares transfer fees. There was the issue of loan fees and Ayew's wages of £4m which could have been mitigated.
The £6m appears on the face of it a much better long term investment. Piroe, Obafemi Downes have all increased their valuation even in s depressed market.
Cooper did well but had in his first season two current England international in his ranks on loan. This was not sustainable. He left once this temporary manipulation could not be repeated.
I felt the actual finishing table would be a decent guide to the qualities of each manager taking to account the disturbance of the first ten or so games. Martin claimed he needed transition development time due to the technical nature of his methods. After 12 games the teams were bang level. This was one valid approach.
Cooper has beaten Martin hands down and Martin now talks about deficiencies in 'athleticism' and rather than needing time on the training field and many other reasons for substandard defensive performance. The two Forest defeats 4-5 month apart show no development whatsoever. He has too many signings which do not improve athleticism and Allen has 'carried the can' for this. How has Ntcham improved athleticism he cannot play 90 minutes.
How did it work out?. Cooper has done far better than i expected. I an not alone in this. There were 30,000 Forest fans in the same boat for sure. He had two golden period as Swansea but could not sustain them. Martin has done averagely in a Tony Mowbrew type way. Some impressive wins but some bad big defeats. probably a bit less than i expected.
His words on Saturday suggest a logic deficit Mr Winter and the new DoF will need to test out. He said Swansea had control at H-T at 1-1. This was bogus with already 7 shots on the Swansea goal and 6 other off target. He did not change the game dynamics and lost the second half 0-4 with the same so called "control" and another 10 shots on the Swansea goal. Martin had no control of any part of the game.
I seems to me Garrick in particular is young and athletic. Tall strong 23 or 24 and a sprinter and improving in conditioning and heading the ball. Swansea needed to wrestle some control on Saturday at half time but physically and mentally were unable to compete. |
Ayews wage was an albatross around Coopers neck
There have been loan fees this season too I doubt Rhys Williams came cheap or Laird? and this on top of the fees paid out in transfers .
We have already seen MArtin sideline players who he doenst wnat to use what if Cooper had taken the same view .rrahter than use the assets available to best effect
There is always data manipulation but as I have stated eleswhere in Coopers first season
which incidentally was his first ever season in senoir and league management he achived
70 pts
Won 18
Lost 12
drew 16
Goals for 62
Goals against 53
Whilst this season Martin has
Won 16
Lost 16
Drawn 13
Goals for 58
Goals against 67
We still ahve one more game to play but Martin cannot match the number of wins in all for me pound per pound I think Cooper did better
I regonise you are "supporting " Cooper in this post and most sensible persons do regonise the ££ of Ayew but that was a burden from the PL and the superb stewardship of the then DoF and CEO who thought he was being clever bring Ayew back despite the financial buden it gave without saving us from relegation. | |
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:24 - May 3 with 741 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:09 - May 3 by Dr_Parnassus |
No data manipulation at all.
Let me remind you what you claimed.
Claim: “It is good he left because his heart was not in it facing a lower transfer budget “.
“Lower transfer budget” you said. So what has Ayews legacy salary (which hampered Cooper no end) got to do with anything? A salary of an existing player is not part of a transfer budget. It may well reduce the transfer budget of course - which it did.
As for loan fees, they were next to nothing and surely offset (or close to) fees paid for loans this season - Wolf, Laird, Christie, Williams and Burns. Brewster was free for example. I think the only one that cost a bit was Hourihane, but it wouldn’t have been that much being a semi season one.
You are speaking with me now Resolven, you don’t get away with slack posting. Hit your marks. [Post edited 3 May 2022 14:18]
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What a bizarre comment. "So what has Ayews legacy salary got to do with anything?.
"What has £4m got to do with anything". It is around the value of Swansea accounting loss in the last financial year. And £4m of the remaining parachute payments. The parachute finished and Ayew and his good mate Cooper wanted out. Ayew was out of contract and Cooper lost his mojo.
The £6m transfer fees was matched with outgoing of Roberts, Lowe and loan fees for number of players. Was it £4-£5m for those two? Oh I remember you do not like to use "net transfer fees" . | |
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:34 - May 3 with 709 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:24 - May 3 by ReslovenSwan1 |
What a bizarre comment. "So what has Ayews legacy salary got to do with anything?.
"What has £4m got to do with anything". It is around the value of Swansea accounting loss in the last financial year. And £4m of the remaining parachute payments. The parachute finished and Ayew and his good mate Cooper wanted out. Ayew was out of contract and Cooper lost his mojo.
The £6m transfer fees was matched with outgoing of Roberts, Lowe and loan fees for number of players. Was it £4-£5m for those two? Oh I remember you do not like to use "net transfer fees" . |
What is bizarre about that?
Again, what has a salary of a player already at the club got to do with Coopers transfer budget? Apart from ensuring it was next to nothing as a result of course…
Forest didn’t have any parachute payments did they? Forest have spent less than Swansea this season haven’t they? Forest don’t have Andre Ayew do they?
I’m afraid your reasoning, as usual, doesn’t stand up to even the slightest scrutiny. It doesn’t even get past the initial phase of reason or sense.
If you want to use net transfer fees then Cooper did not get to enjoy the luxury of an “offset” - spending what the club sold.
He suffered a deficit of £48m.
Either one leaves your comments looking ridiculous. You can pick which one we use, net spend makes the difference even more stark of course. | |
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:35 - May 3 with 712 views | vetchonian |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:24 - May 3 by ReslovenSwan1 |
What a bizarre comment. "So what has Ayews legacy salary got to do with anything?.
"What has £4m got to do with anything". It is around the value of Swansea accounting loss in the last financial year. And £4m of the remaining parachute payments. The parachute finished and Ayew and his good mate Cooper wanted out. Ayew was out of contract and Cooper lost his mojo.
The £6m transfer fees was matched with outgoing of Roberts, Lowe and loan fees for number of players. Was it £4-£5m for those two? Oh I remember you do not like to use "net transfer fees" . |
SO actually Cooper would have had a better war chest had he stayed?
Without the legacy burden of Ayews wages curtesy of Mr Jenkins so why was he down hearted at having a lower budget.
HE had it seems already targeted Piroe and Obafemi who have shown their worht and Lowe would possibly still be here. I have wondered had Cooper already used his Liverpool connections to seek the Loan of Williams as a repalcement for Geuhi?
There is loads of data manipulation just as Ayews wages are discussed what about thise of Bnnet and Fulton too? | |
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:47 - May 3 with 696 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:35 - May 3 by vetchonian |
SO actually Cooper would have had a better war chest had he stayed?
Without the legacy burden of Ayews wages curtesy of Mr Jenkins so why was he down hearted at having a lower budget.
HE had it seems already targeted Piroe and Obafemi who have shown their worht and Lowe would possibly still be here. I have wondered had Cooper already used his Liverpool connections to seek the Loan of Williams as a repalcement for Geuhi?
There is loads of data manipulation just as Ayews wages are discussed what about thise of Bnnet and Fulton too? |
Exactly, what he is saying makes no sense.
He spent £500k in year 1 and £1.7m in year 2. Obviously plus the minimal loan fees too for youth players.
References from Resolven as to what their worth or status is right now is irrelevant, of course. At the time they had far less stature than the likes of Rhys Williams.
So if Cooper stayed( he would have the luxury of £6m to bring in his own players.
He left for Forest who have spent even less than that.
Go figure. | |
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:54 - May 3 with 698 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:34 - May 3 by Dr_Parnassus |
What is bizarre about that?
Again, what has a salary of a player already at the club got to do with Coopers transfer budget? Apart from ensuring it was next to nothing as a result of course…
Forest didn’t have any parachute payments did they? Forest have spent less than Swansea this season haven’t they? Forest don’t have Andre Ayew do they?
I’m afraid your reasoning, as usual, doesn’t stand up to even the slightest scrutiny. It doesn’t even get past the initial phase of reason or sense.
If you want to use net transfer fees then Cooper did not get to enjoy the luxury of an “offset” - spending what the club sold.
He suffered a deficit of £48m.
Either one leaves your comments looking ridiculous. You can pick which one we use, net spend makes the difference even more stark of course. |
Forest were actually a strong team on paper even under Houghton. They were serial under performers. They 5-1 defeat to Swansea in the FA cup was stacked full of big names like Lolley and Taylor.
Swansea financial loses last financial year £4.2m. Forest operating loses last financial year £34m. (£30m more). Similar loses in previous years. Cooper has spent it and when the money runs out he will jump ship. Brennan J will be sold for sure unless they go up. It is a massive gamble but does not affect Steve much overall.
https://www.nottinghampost.com/sport/football/football-news/kieran-maguire-picks
[Post edited 3 May 2022 14:59]
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:57 - May 3 with 695 views | vetchonian |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:47 - May 3 by Dr_Parnassus |
Exactly, what he is saying makes no sense.
He spent £500k in year 1 and £1.7m in year 2. Obviously plus the minimal loan fees too for youth players.
References from Resolven as to what their worth or status is right now is irrelevant, of course. At the time they had far less stature than the likes of Rhys Williams.
So if Cooper stayed( he would have the luxury of £6m to bring in his own players.
He left for Forest who have spent even less than that.
Go figure. |
It makes a mockery about the statements saying Cooper wanted out as he feared for his reputaion losing Ayew and having no parachute payments.
As mentioned it seems Piroe and Obafemi wewre lined up he had Lowe, whittaker Cullen...maybe as I suggested already looked at Rhys Williams or even considered Brandon Cooper to fill the Geuhi slot.
But he went why we will neer know the real reason but it seems strange he went to a club with no parachute payments no Ayew and turned it around.
As you have said elsewhere he took virtually the same team that finished 17th last season and were languishing at the foot of the table to where they are today on the brink of automatic promotion but play offs at worst.
Yet when those of us talk of how it is disspointing that our side which finsihed 4th last season is noe at 15th are told to relaise the difficult task given the turnaround in th eplayers....yes but we have added Piroe Obafemi Downs Pato Natchm....so surely a good manager could do better than where we are after all a fraud of a manger has taken the same players who fisnished 17th last season to 3 rd in the table and he had no presaeason | |
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:58 - May 3 with 689 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:54 - May 3 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Forest were actually a strong team on paper even under Houghton. They were serial under performers. They 5-1 defeat to Swansea in the FA cup was stacked full of big names like Lolley and Taylor.
Swansea financial loses last financial year £4.2m. Forest operating loses last financial year £34m. (£30m more). Similar loses in previous years. Cooper has spent it and when the money runs out he will jump ship. Brennan J will be sold for sure unless they go up. It is a massive gamble but does not affect Steve much overall.
https://www.nottinghampost.com/sport/football/football-news/kieran-maguire-picks
[Post edited 3 May 2022 14:59]
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At the time you said the team on paper was similar to ours.
Don’t tell me this is another about turn.
Forest haven’t made the playoffs since 2011, finished 17th the season before Cooper took over and were languishing rock bottom of the league.
Cooper didn’t spend that, what on earth are you talking about? Cooper spent what he was given for transfer fees and the salary of those players brought in - the rest were already club overheads that he had zero control over.
Those high overheads stopped him being able to build with quality permanent personnel like Martin has had the luxury of this season. | |
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 15:02 - May 3 with 685 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:57 - May 3 by vetchonian |
It makes a mockery about the statements saying Cooper wanted out as he feared for his reputaion losing Ayew and having no parachute payments.
As mentioned it seems Piroe and Obafemi wewre lined up he had Lowe, whittaker Cullen...maybe as I suggested already looked at Rhys Williams or even considered Brandon Cooper to fill the Geuhi slot.
But he went why we will neer know the real reason but it seems strange he went to a club with no parachute payments no Ayew and turned it around.
As you have said elsewhere he took virtually the same team that finished 17th last season and were languishing at the foot of the table to where they are today on the brink of automatic promotion but play offs at worst.
Yet when those of us talk of how it is disspointing that our side which finsihed 4th last season is noe at 15th are told to relaise the difficult task given the turnaround in th eplayers....yes but we have added Piroe Obafemi Downs Pato Natchm....so surely a good manager could do better than where we are after all a fraud of a manger has taken the same players who fisnished 17th last season to 3 rd in the table and he had no presaeason |
Steve Cooper would have taken the same circumstances and made us finish in the playoffs this season, I have no doubt about it.
Neither do most others I would wager. Whether they admit it however would be another thing altogether.
This isn’t just about Cooper though, we have been so horrifically mismanaged this season I think there are a host of managers in this league and outside it that would have got us in the promotion hunt.
This season has been ridiculous and to see it defended in the way it has been is something I have found extremely shocking. | |
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 16:48 - May 3 with 648 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:58 - May 3 by Dr_Parnassus |
At the time you said the team on paper was similar to ours.
Don’t tell me this is another about turn.
Forest haven’t made the playoffs since 2011, finished 17th the season before Cooper took over and were languishing rock bottom of the league.
Cooper didn’t spend that, what on earth are you talking about? Cooper spent what he was given for transfer fees and the salary of those players brought in - the rest were already club overheads that he had zero control over.
Those high overheads stopped him being able to build with quality permanent personnel like Martin has had the luxury of this season. |
I have told you before I am not dogmatic and not averse to changing my mind. I thought Roberto Martinnez was mad when he said he had a better team than Leeds after a 0-2 loss in 2006 or when ever it was. I am without ego relative to others. You are wasting your time sniping.
Cooper has a massive wage bill on his roster. Players Swansea could not afford like the Scottish centre back Potter wanted. They were top six under Lamouchi but folded allowing in Swansea 2 yeas ago. Hughton looks like a washed up manager like McCarthy and dragged a good squad down. Cooper had added gas with Mighton Johnson Spense.
If they not go up he may well walk again while his stock is high. . | |
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 17:02 - May 3 with 639 views | vetchonian |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 16:48 - May 3 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I have told you before I am not dogmatic and not averse to changing my mind. I thought Roberto Martinnez was mad when he said he had a better team than Leeds after a 0-2 loss in 2006 or when ever it was. I am without ego relative to others. You are wasting your time sniping.
Cooper has a massive wage bill on his roster. Players Swansea could not afford like the Scottish centre back Potter wanted. They were top six under Lamouchi but folded allowing in Swansea 2 yeas ago. Hughton looks like a washed up manager like McCarthy and dragged a good squad down. Cooper had added gas with Mighton Johnson Spense.
If they not go up he may well walk again while his stock is high. . |
And your point is?
What this points to is it is the manager that makes the players.....
HOughton fsailed to get the performances and results Cooper has managed just because a club decides to pay players huge wages doesnt mean they are "great" players
What has any of thisa to do with the budget Cooper had whilst here compared to that Martin had at his disposal.?
Im sure if Foret fail to go up a PL club will come calling for Cooper...a Burnlley perhaps...but I suspect he will make it third time lucky as Francks did at Brentford he achieved promotion in his third season of management and at the second attempt of the playoffs | |
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 17:04 - May 3 with 634 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 16:48 - May 3 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I have told you before I am not dogmatic and not averse to changing my mind. I thought Roberto Martinnez was mad when he said he had a better team than Leeds after a 0-2 loss in 2006 or when ever it was. I am without ego relative to others. You are wasting your time sniping.
Cooper has a massive wage bill on his roster. Players Swansea could not afford like the Scottish centre back Potter wanted. They were top six under Lamouchi but folded allowing in Swansea 2 yeas ago. Hughton looks like a washed up manager like McCarthy and dragged a good squad down. Cooper had added gas with Mighton Johnson Spense.
If they not go up he may well walk again while his stock is high. . |
Sniping? Me? Where?
So you make bold claims and should they not materialise then you change the whole basis for the theory. It’s not just about recognising the change in outcome, you rewrite history.
You said something along the lines of “if your theory regarding PPG is correct as a valid comparison of managerial talent then Forest will finish considerably higher than Swansea, something I don’t think will happen”. You were adamant that I was wrong.
So instead of now acknowledging that sound analysis (that you said you would of course), you have changed the whole scenario by now claiming Forest have a far better side. This of course was not even entertained at the time, in fact you predicted Forest would finish 10th and Swansea 8th.
It’s revisionist nonsense.
Large wage bills aren’t an indicator of success. The wage bill won’t be that dissimilar to last season where they finished 17th.
Would you rather two Piroes or one Bennett? Would you rather 9 Piroes or 1 Ayew?
A large wage bill being inherited is a hinderance not a blessing, especially when the side is not returning value for that outlay and haven’t for a decade.
You have to be an exceptional manager to turn something like that from the worst performing team to the best. Which is what he did of course, with no pre season, no transfer window (until Jan) and spending less than Swansea in the transfer market.
These are facts. [Post edited 3 May 2022 17:10]
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 17:22 - May 3 with 624 views | STID2017 |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 16:48 - May 3 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I have told you before I am not dogmatic and not averse to changing my mind. I thought Roberto Martinnez was mad when he said he had a better team than Leeds after a 0-2 loss in 2006 or when ever it was. I am without ego relative to others. You are wasting your time sniping.
Cooper has a massive wage bill on his roster. Players Swansea could not afford like the Scottish centre back Potter wanted. They were top six under Lamouchi but folded allowing in Swansea 2 yeas ago. Hughton looks like a washed up manager like McCarthy and dragged a good squad down. Cooper had added gas with Mighton Johnson Spense.
If they not go up he may well walk again while his stock is high. . |
If Forest fail to go up automatically, then i am not sure the lottery of the playoffs suit Cooper.
If they do fail, then whether he would leave depends on how others view him ?
As a manager who has taken three clubs to the play offs ( and obviously worked wonders with what was a very good Forest squad in need of the right manager )
Or as a manager who has reached the playoffs three times and failed?
If the latter then he would probably be better off staying with Forest and trying to complete the job next season.
Although he would face the same situation as at Swansea - seeing his best players sold. | |
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 17:40 - May 3 with 611 views | onehunglow |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 12:47 - May 3 by STID2017 |
Not sure what the reference to Potter is about there ?
As I have posted elsewhere there probably needs to be more balanced views.
Especially from you, Dr P and AC.
We have had low moments this season, but as I have said before, rather be following us than Barnsley, Derby or Peterborough |
I post my own way. I am beholden to nobody and never look to impress any other fan . No fan is better than me and vice versa .
Remember that | |
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| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 17:43 - May 3 with 608 views | onehunglow |
| Brutal Cooper comments on BBC on 14:01 - May 3 by ReslovenSwan1 |
This is data manipulation which you specialise in, and, simply compares transfer fees. There was the issue of loan fees and Ayew's wages of £4m which could have been mitigated.
The £6m appears on the face of it a much better long term investment. Piroe, Obafemi Downes have all increased their valuation even in s depressed market.
Cooper did well but had in his first season two current England international in his ranks on loan. This was not sustainable. He left once this temporary manipulation could not be repeated.
I felt the actual finishing table would be a decent guide to the qualities of each manager taking to account the disturbance of the first ten or so games. Martin claimed he needed transition development time due to the technical nature of his methods. After 12 games the teams were bang level. This was one valid approach.
Cooper has beaten Martin hands down and Martin now talks about deficiencies in 'athleticism' and rather than needing time on the training field and many other reasons for substandard defensive performance. The two Forest defeats 4-5 month apart show no development whatsoever. He has too many signings which do not improve athleticism and Allen has 'carried the can' for this. How has Ntcham improved athleticism he cannot play 90 minutes.
How did it work out?. Cooper has done far better than i expected. I an not alone in this. There were 30,000 Forest fans in the same boat for sure. He had two golden period as Swansea but could not sustain them. Martin has done averagely in a Tony Mowbrew type way. Some impressive wins but some bad big defeats. probably a bit less than i expected.
His words on Saturday suggest a logic deficit Mr Winter and the new DoF will need to test out. He said Swansea had control at H-T at 1-1. This was bogus with already 7 shots on the Swansea goal and 6 other off target. He did not change the game dynamics and lost the second half 0-4 with the same so called "control" and another 10 shots on the Swansea goal. Martin had no control of any part of the game.
I seems to me Garrick in particular is young and athletic. Tall strong 23 or 24 and a sprinter and improving in conditioning and heading the ball. Swansea needed to wrestle some control on Saturday at half time but physically and mentally were unable to compete. |
Agree totally.I got sick of excuses round @bout November.Writing was on the wall.
We have had a succession.
We have replicated mistakes repeatedly. Never good | |
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