| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. 13:43 - Feb 19 with 23215 views | BigKindo |
It gives me great sadness to have to add yet another thread re the parlous state of Rochdale AFC. In recent times, in remaining silent, I have constantly had to bite my bottom lip. Alas enough is enough and my feelings should be laid bare.
I first attended a match at the Dale in 1949 and have been a season ticket holder for many years, perhaps more than I care to remember especially if I added up the cost. Not so much in recent seasons but I have occasionally attended away matches and been warmly greeted by fellow Daleys in hostelries as far away as Barnet, Wycombe, Torquay, Newport, Brentford etc. I have experienced many highs and sadly the many lows coupled with following a poorly supported club. But despite not being born in Rochdale, the Dale have been my team. My defence of the club following snide and sarcastic comments from supporters of other ’bigger’ clubs has honed the sharpness of my retorts. But now the same commentators have turned to express concern and sadness, and question what has gone wrong at Dale..
Unless things change within the upper echelons of the Club I fear that this will be my and my wife’s last season of attending. Ah I hear you mutter. ‘another wanting rid of BBM.’ Well although that may help the situation, but as others have so eloquently written, BBM. might become the sacrificial lamb in an attempt to divert attention away from the serious situation at the club. If BBM departs there will be no changes further up the pecking order.
My feelings are that the wheels started to come off on the appointment of the current C.E.O. Mr David Bottomley. The club is no longer family friendly orientated and Mr Bottomley appears to have ignored the need for customers and appears to take us, well certainly in my case, for granted. What a very strange way to run a business.
On August 21st 2020 I sent Mr Bottomley a polite email requesting the Club’s policy for the forthcoming season re Blue Badge Car Parking pass holders. I sent a reminder email to him on September 17th. 2020. I thereafter received a response from the then Club Secretary. On October 2nd. 2020 I sent a further email to Mr Bottomley, which I felt to be constructive, re the Club’s offer to refund season ticket monies. Again no response. In week ending October 16th. I received a telephone call from another Board Member i.e. the Club’s courtesy call made to those considered vulnerable during the pandemic. The subject of my email was raised, a requested copy was forwarded, and I was assured that the matter would be taken up with the C.E.O. I also understand that similar approaches were made by the Trust on my behalf. To date I have heard nothing from Mr Bottomley. I have not even had the courtesy of an acknowledgment re my last email. What a very odd way to treat any customer either long-standing or new.
Having successfully run my own business for 40 years I certainly know the value of paying loyal customers, and suppliers, and as a Director the need to comply with the various statutory bodies examples being the Information Commissioners Office, Trading Standards Office, P.R.S. Licensing etc. I am extremely interested to know that when the position of C.E.O. became available, and prior to Mr Bottomley’s appointment, was the position advertised, how many applications were received, how many were interviewed and who decided whom was the best candidate? Or, perhaps, as rumours suggest you opted to fulfil the position yourself. There appears to be some disquiet over a previous decision to take away the ‘Club privileges’ from two ex long-serving (suffering?) Directors, privileges which thankfully were later re-instated. But the rumour mill has also thrown up that other ex long-standing Directors are currently banned from the Club. Is this fact or an Apocrypha?
Hopefully the previous paragraph has given Mr Bottomley a platform, an opportunity, to respond and refute these constantly circulating rumours to the benefit of the Club, his own position and the Club’s loyal supporters. Answers are needed and quickly before the situation deteriorates. But will he respond? Previous experience says no and that ignorance is bliss.
And now yesterday’s news that the Chairman had decided to stand down. ‘For personal reasons’ can mean a multitude of things. Hopefully it is not a health issue. I had several occasions to speak with him after matches and I found him to be polite and he always thanked me for attending the match.
So it appears that the question I pose, perhaps, is that Team Rochdale has become Team Bottomley. In the end all Empires sooner or later collapse. The problem is the remaining detritus which has to be garnered up by others in an attempt to restore the norm. This has all makings and content of a Shakespearean Tragedy and however long the situation is spun out the end result will be the same.
Can anybody provide an answer? I certainly know what my solution would be.
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| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 10:40 - Feb 20 with 4099 views | judd |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 10:28 - Feb 20 by BigKindo |
Thanks Judd. Any chance you can pop around and give me a hug? I have chardonnay. |
For you, sir, any time. |  |
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| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 10:40 - Feb 20 with 4105 views | BigKindo |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 22:24 - Feb 19 by joecooke |
I wish box 8 like the old days was still knocking about! i can only imagine the conversations that could have been had with the current incumbents of our club. [Post edited 19 Feb 2021 22:26]
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What was Box 8? I am assuming that as a result of this thread I should perhaps start wearing a cricket box. | | | |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 10:44 - Feb 20 with 4085 views | BigKindo |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 10:40 - Feb 20 by judd |
For you, sir, any time. |
.. anywhere, any place ...... I have got the soundtrack from 'Titanic.' | | | |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 11:11 - Feb 20 with 4032 views | judd |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 10:44 - Feb 20 by BigKindo |
.. anywhere, any place ...... I have got the soundtrack from 'Titanic.' |
And we have the captain | |
| |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 12:56 - Feb 20 with 3879 views | DaleiLama |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 21:57 - Feb 19 by SuddenLad |
I can't fathom why or how this post has attracted 3 'down votes' from other message board users.
Billy Rudd is doing no more than encouraging someone to carry on supporting the club, despite having justifiable grievances which make him question his value as a supporter of 70 (SEVENTY) years.
The rest of the post is simple and true. The people who hold the posts at the club are temporary custodians, not permanent fixtures in the same way that supporters are.
Those posts will (hopefully) always be filled by the most suitable applicants after the relevant selection process, for a fair remuneration.
No-one applies to be a supporter. We are all here because of a mutual love for the club and the team. It's part of our DNA. not for hire or transfer. We may disagree with fellow supporters about many things but we never jump ship to another club.
Attracting negative responses or dissenting voices for what he said is baffling and worrying. |
Nail on head.
Now 33 up votes versus 4 down. Although "2billion+" voted for both so may have been a correction? Tells its own story better than mere words.
I am reminded of the old adage the only criticism that hurts is that which is merited.
#contemptuous |  |
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| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 13:25 - Feb 20 with 3826 views | SuddenLad |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 10:36 - Feb 20 by BigKindo |
A low profile from the CEO. Come off it. I expect to see him on the next series of 'Strictly' |
Or "Dancing on Thin Ice" |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 21:10 - Feb 21 with 3479 views | judd |
A poster on another thread poses the question why there are repeated references to an event of several years ago, and I got to thinking does he/she have a valid point?
I recalled the recent excellent podcast featuring our first ever Chief Executive in which he told the story of he and a fellow fan paying for a private investigator to look into a Rochdale Director that they had their doubts about, to huge congratulations and appreciation.
Nowadays. our history can leave easily accessible electronic footprints.
I then asked myself why is history taught throughout educational establishments and how is it used?
In answer to the this point, I believe it is so we can learn what has happened in the past and help us to understand the present.
Put this thought into employment and we can consider a CV as an historical factual representation of an individuals’ employment history, and is used by a prospective employer to help decide on the capability and credibility of the prospective employee.
What the poster referenced earlier appears to be referring to is the current CE’s involvement in the illegal price fixing cases whilst he was employed as a Sales Director at Hasbro. This involvement is in the public domain, and anything I write makes no accusations, purely relying on information freely accessible.
Against a background of Rochdale fans highlighting activity with regards the stewardship at Bury, RAFC released the following announcement in July 2015
New Director Welcomed Onto Dale Board - News - Rochdale AFC
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2015/july/new-director-welcomed-onto-dale-boa
From the biography is this:
“His career achievements include senior management positions in Sales/ Marketing and in General management, formerly with the World’s Largest Toy company, Hasbro. For over 10 years, in conjunction with a business partner, he built a start-up company that grew into one of the top 15 toy companies in the UK Toy Industry. David sold this business at the end of 2012 and is now involved in running another successful Toy Company.”
In October 2018 James Mason was announced as the new Chief Executive
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2018/october/james-mason-appointment/
Two months later the current CE agreed to step up this role
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2018/december/statement-from-andrew-kilpatric
His role in the Hasbro price fixing cases was broken on the unofficial fans message board and was subsequently discussed between the CE and the Supporters Trust
https://www.daletrust.co.uk/2019/02/meeting-with-the-club-27th-feb/
This how the Hasbro illegal price fixing was dealt with
“Conversations turned towards off the field matters that have also been causing concern amongst the fanbase recently. Questions on the messageboard earlier this week had queried a period of employment earlier in David Bottomley’s career that had been subject to speculation on the messageboard this week. We were informed that David actually appeared as a witness on behalf of the Office of Fair Trading, and it was on the public record that he was deemed as being the only credible witness whose evidence was considered wholly believable by the OFT. He left the company entirely of his own volition and continues to be in contact with senior staff.”
This answer appears to only deal with involvement in the 3rd case in which Argos and Littlewoods appealed the penalties imposed in the 2nd case, details below.
So, what of the Hasbro cases?
I will make this quite clear - in the reports of the following decisions in no way did he act unilaterally, and extracts are posted only to highlight some of the involvement, and should be read in conjunction with the Trust report above.
1. Competition Act 1998
Decision of Director General of Fair Trading
No. CA98/18/2002
Hasbro and Distributors
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/555de4c3ed915d7ae200016b/hasbro.p
Of note:
The Director considers that agreements between undertakings that fix prices are among the most serious infringements caught under the Chapter I prohibition. He will therefore impose a financial penalty on Hasbro. However, the Director will not impose financial penalties on any of the ten distributors as Hasbro had taken the initiative in fixing prices and the distributors were in a substantially weaker position. (Summary, page 1)
The resultant penalty imposed on Hasbro is therefore £4.95 million. (para 98)
David Bottomley, UK Sales Director, admitted in his statement to OFT officials
that he “was an instigator”. ..
It is the Director’s view that, in the person of David Bottomley, Hasbro’s senior management was fully aware of what the Distributors’ agreements involved and actively
encouraged their implementation. (para 89)
From the Guardian 29th November 2002:
“The fine is the largest handed out so far under the 1998 Competition Act, which prevents agreements among companies or people that have the effect of "preventing, restricting or distorting" competition.”
Hasbro decided not to appeal the penalty.
2. Competition Act 1998
Decision of the Office of Fair Trading
No. CA98/8/2003
Agreements between Hasbro U.K. Ltd, Argos Ltd and Littlewoods Ltd fixing the price of Hasbro toys and games
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/555de4d340f0b666a2000168/hasbro3.
Of note:
Argos fined £17.28m, Littlewoods £5.37m
The OFT considers that agreements between undertakings that fix prices are among the
most serious infringements caught under the Chapter I prohibition. It is therefore
imposing financial penalties on Hasbro, Argos and Littlewoods. However, Hasbro has
been granted 100% leniency since it was the first to provide the Director General of
Fair Trading (as he then was) with evidence of the infringing agreements before the
investigation commenced. Hasbro also co-operated fully. Therefore its penalty will be
reduced to nil. (From £15.59 million)
OFT is also aware of the remedial action taken by Hasbro's parent
company, Hasbro Inc, following its discovery of the infringement. It has taken
severe disciplinary action against the employees concerned (para 405)
3. IN THE COMPETITION APPEAL TRIBUNAL Cases: 1014 and 1015/1/1/03
BETWEEN:
(1) ARGOS LIMITED
(2) LITTLEWOODS LIMITED
Appellants
-v.-
OFFICE OF FAIR TRADING
(formerly the Director General of Fair Trading)
Respondent
https://www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5a8ff79260d03e7f57eaf5ee
Of note:
In our judgment, Mr. Thomson was a truthful witness, who gave evidence honestly as to
the facts as he saw them. Where his recollection was imprecise, he told us so, but on the
essential elements we find that Mr. Thomson’s recollection was reliable. In addition, his
evidence is broadly corroborated by the unchallenged evidence of Mr. Bottomley and Mr.
Wilson and is, in our view, consistent with the documents. (para 302)
Reverting now to the biography, and the next chapter in the CV, a business he sold at the end of 2012:
David Bottomley to leave Trends UK - Toy World Magazine | The business magazine with a passion for toys Toy World Magazine | The business magazine with a passion for toys
https://toyworldmag.co.uk/david-bottomley-to-leave-trends-uk/
Checking Companies House will reveal consecutive years of the Directors paying themselves 6 figure dividends and then a parting of ways.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/04615823
A few months later
https://toyworldmag.co.uk/trends-uk-moves-sales-and-marketing-operation/
Then
Asobi appoints new commercial director - Toy World Magazine | The business magazine with a passion for toysToy World Magazine | The business magazine with a passion for toys
https://toyworldmag.co.uk/asobi-appoints-new-commercial-director/
A few years later
https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/rochdale-ambassadors-promotes-investment-i
Asobi makes for interesting reading on Companies House:
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/06798691/fili
So, going back to the poster mentioned at the start, why do some refer back to events of a few years ago?
Because they have a relevance to how those events have been handled subsequently?
Because they throw doubt on credibility and capability?
Given the response reported by the Trust, is it fair to assume that the Directors of the club were unaware of the details of the Hasbro issues when appointments at the club were made?
Has the biography issued by the club inadvertently mis-reported the sale of a business in 2012?
Was “involved in running another successful Toy Company” researched via Companies House? In no way is the failure of this company being blamed on our now CE.
Running a football club, especially one so close to Bury, will bring with it significant levels of scrutiny. That there has been a recent explosion of supporter dissatisfaction with off field management will only amplify it. | |
| |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 21:55 - Feb 21 with 3367 views | D_Alien |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 21:10 - Feb 21 by judd |
A poster on another thread poses the question why there are repeated references to an event of several years ago, and I got to thinking does he/she have a valid point?
I recalled the recent excellent podcast featuring our first ever Chief Executive in which he told the story of he and a fellow fan paying for a private investigator to look into a Rochdale Director that they had their doubts about, to huge congratulations and appreciation.
Nowadays. our history can leave easily accessible electronic footprints.
I then asked myself why is history taught throughout educational establishments and how is it used?
In answer to the this point, I believe it is so we can learn what has happened in the past and help us to understand the present.
Put this thought into employment and we can consider a CV as an historical factual representation of an individuals’ employment history, and is used by a prospective employer to help decide on the capability and credibility of the prospective employee.
What the poster referenced earlier appears to be referring to is the current CE’s involvement in the illegal price fixing cases whilst he was employed as a Sales Director at Hasbro. This involvement is in the public domain, and anything I write makes no accusations, purely relying on information freely accessible.
Against a background of Rochdale fans highlighting activity with regards the stewardship at Bury, RAFC released the following announcement in July 2015
New Director Welcomed Onto Dale Board - News - Rochdale AFC
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2015/july/new-director-welcomed-onto-dale-boa
From the biography is this:
“His career achievements include senior management positions in Sales/ Marketing and in General management, formerly with the World’s Largest Toy company, Hasbro. For over 10 years, in conjunction with a business partner, he built a start-up company that grew into one of the top 15 toy companies in the UK Toy Industry. David sold this business at the end of 2012 and is now involved in running another successful Toy Company.”
In October 2018 James Mason was announced as the new Chief Executive
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2018/october/james-mason-appointment/
Two months later the current CE agreed to step up this role
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2018/december/statement-from-andrew-kilpatric
His role in the Hasbro price fixing cases was broken on the unofficial fans message board and was subsequently discussed between the CE and the Supporters Trust
https://www.daletrust.co.uk/2019/02/meeting-with-the-club-27th-feb/
This how the Hasbro illegal price fixing was dealt with
“Conversations turned towards off the field matters that have also been causing concern amongst the fanbase recently. Questions on the messageboard earlier this week had queried a period of employment earlier in David Bottomley’s career that had been subject to speculation on the messageboard this week. We were informed that David actually appeared as a witness on behalf of the Office of Fair Trading, and it was on the public record that he was deemed as being the only credible witness whose evidence was considered wholly believable by the OFT. He left the company entirely of his own volition and continues to be in contact with senior staff.”
This answer appears to only deal with involvement in the 3rd case in which Argos and Littlewoods appealed the penalties imposed in the 2nd case, details below.
So, what of the Hasbro cases?
I will make this quite clear - in the reports of the following decisions in no way did he act unilaterally, and extracts are posted only to highlight some of the involvement, and should be read in conjunction with the Trust report above.
1. Competition Act 1998
Decision of Director General of Fair Trading
No. CA98/18/2002
Hasbro and Distributors
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/555de4c3ed915d7ae200016b/hasbro.p
Of note:
The Director considers that agreements between undertakings that fix prices are among the most serious infringements caught under the Chapter I prohibition. He will therefore impose a financial penalty on Hasbro. However, the Director will not impose financial penalties on any of the ten distributors as Hasbro had taken the initiative in fixing prices and the distributors were in a substantially weaker position. (Summary, page 1)
The resultant penalty imposed on Hasbro is therefore £4.95 million. (para 98)
David Bottomley, UK Sales Director, admitted in his statement to OFT officials
that he “was an instigator”. ..
It is the Director’s view that, in the person of David Bottomley, Hasbro’s senior management was fully aware of what the Distributors’ agreements involved and actively
encouraged their implementation. (para 89)
From the Guardian 29th November 2002:
“The fine is the largest handed out so far under the 1998 Competition Act, which prevents agreements among companies or people that have the effect of "preventing, restricting or distorting" competition.”
Hasbro decided not to appeal the penalty.
2. Competition Act 1998
Decision of the Office of Fair Trading
No. CA98/8/2003
Agreements between Hasbro U.K. Ltd, Argos Ltd and Littlewoods Ltd fixing the price of Hasbro toys and games
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/555de4d340f0b666a2000168/hasbro3.
Of note:
Argos fined £17.28m, Littlewoods £5.37m
The OFT considers that agreements between undertakings that fix prices are among the
most serious infringements caught under the Chapter I prohibition. It is therefore
imposing financial penalties on Hasbro, Argos and Littlewoods. However, Hasbro has
been granted 100% leniency since it was the first to provide the Director General of
Fair Trading (as he then was) with evidence of the infringing agreements before the
investigation commenced. Hasbro also co-operated fully. Therefore its penalty will be
reduced to nil. (From £15.59 million)
OFT is also aware of the remedial action taken by Hasbro's parent
company, Hasbro Inc, following its discovery of the infringement. It has taken
severe disciplinary action against the employees concerned (para 405)
3. IN THE COMPETITION APPEAL TRIBUNAL Cases: 1014 and 1015/1/1/03
BETWEEN:
(1) ARGOS LIMITED
(2) LITTLEWOODS LIMITED
Appellants
-v.-
OFFICE OF FAIR TRADING
(formerly the Director General of Fair Trading)
Respondent
https://www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5a8ff79260d03e7f57eaf5ee
Of note:
In our judgment, Mr. Thomson was a truthful witness, who gave evidence honestly as to
the facts as he saw them. Where his recollection was imprecise, he told us so, but on the
essential elements we find that Mr. Thomson’s recollection was reliable. In addition, his
evidence is broadly corroborated by the unchallenged evidence of Mr. Bottomley and Mr.
Wilson and is, in our view, consistent with the documents. (para 302)
Reverting now to the biography, and the next chapter in the CV, a business he sold at the end of 2012:
David Bottomley to leave Trends UK - Toy World Magazine | The business magazine with a passion for toys Toy World Magazine | The business magazine with a passion for toys
https://toyworldmag.co.uk/david-bottomley-to-leave-trends-uk/
Checking Companies House will reveal consecutive years of the Directors paying themselves 6 figure dividends and then a parting of ways.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/04615823
A few months later
https://toyworldmag.co.uk/trends-uk-moves-sales-and-marketing-operation/
Then
Asobi appoints new commercial director - Toy World Magazine | The business magazine with a passion for toysToy World Magazine | The business magazine with a passion for toys
https://toyworldmag.co.uk/asobi-appoints-new-commercial-director/
A few years later
https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/rochdale-ambassadors-promotes-investment-i
Asobi makes for interesting reading on Companies House:
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/06798691/fili
So, going back to the poster mentioned at the start, why do some refer back to events of a few years ago?
Because they have a relevance to how those events have been handled subsequently?
Because they throw doubt on credibility and capability?
Given the response reported by the Trust, is it fair to assume that the Directors of the club were unaware of the details of the Hasbro issues when appointments at the club were made?
Has the biography issued by the club inadvertently mis-reported the sale of a business in 2012?
Was “involved in running another successful Toy Company” researched via Companies House? In no way is the failure of this company being blamed on our now CE.
Running a football club, especially one so close to Bury, will bring with it significant levels of scrutiny. That there has been a recent explosion of supporter dissatisfaction with off field management will only amplify it. |
Great piece of work |  |
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| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 22:31 - Feb 21 with 3276 views | judd |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 21:55 - Feb 21 by D_Alien |
Great piece of work |
Lockdown, innit? | |
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| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 22:34 - Feb 21 with 3277 views | IOMDale |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 21:55 - Feb 21 by D_Alien |
Great piece of work |
Seconded. Great work Judd, though the timing of the post does suggest that you skipped Antiques Roadshow to put that post together.
I mean, is anything worth that sacrifice? |  | | |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 22:42 - Feb 21 with 3236 views | judd |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 22:34 - Feb 21 by IOMDale |
Seconded. Great work Judd, though the timing of the post does suggest that you skipped Antiques Roadshow to put that post together.
I mean, is anything worth that sacrifice? |
I was actually caught up with R17Ale's suggestion that Miss Marple must be shitting herself.
Searching for that cost me some liberty | |
| |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 22:46 - Feb 21 with 3225 views | IOMDale |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 22:42 - Feb 21 by judd |
I was actually caught up with R17Ale's suggestion that Miss Marple must be shitting herself.
Searching for that cost me some liberty |
I always did wonder how Miss Marple solved The Adventure of the Christmas Pudding. | | | |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 22:49 - Feb 21 with 3201 views | D_Alien |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 22:42 - Feb 21 by judd |
I was actually caught up with R17Ale's suggestion that Miss Marple must be shitting herself.
Searching for that cost me some liberty |
Caught d'elving into Miss Marple's underwear?
Not surprised
[Post edited 21 Feb 2021 22:52]
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| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 22:50 - Feb 21 with 3201 views | judd |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 22:46 - Feb 21 by IOMDale |
I always did wonder how Miss Marple solved The Adventure of the Christmas Pudding. |
Gives a whole new meaning to the footballing phrase of putting it on a sixpence. | |
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| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 22:57 - Feb 21 with 3158 views | D_Alien |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 22:50 - Feb 21 by judd |
Gives a whole new meaning to the footballing phrase of putting it on a sixpence. |
Worth a bob or two, for sure
[Post edited 21 Feb 2021 23:08]
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| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 23:08 - Feb 21 with 3143 views | TVOS1907 |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 22:42 - Feb 21 by judd |
I was actually caught up with R17Ale's suggestion that Miss Marple must be shitting herself.
Searching for that cost me some liberty |
He's onto Vera now.
As it were. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
| |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 23:14 - Feb 21 with 3128 views | judd |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 23:08 - Feb 21 by TVOS1907 |
He's onto Vera now.
As it were. |
Vera is my lockdown highlight, too.
Let's, now please, revert to the deserved respect that Bigkindos original post deserves. | |
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| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 23:30 - Feb 21 with 3110 views | Sandyman |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 23:14 - Feb 21 by judd |
Vera is my lockdown highlight, too.
Let's, now please, revert to the deserved respect that Bigkindos original post deserves. |
The article at
https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/rochdale-ambassadors-promotes-investment-i
Guess he'd blame poor journalism for describing him as "David Bottomley, **owner** (??) of Rochdale AFC and national toy business Asobi.", but who told the reporter, especially about Asobi? Who would think to know such a thing in 2017 especially as it was listed as a "dormant company" for several years? He's "owned" neither. A tendency towards smoke and mirrors? Hmmm.
His alleged line "there’s no shared sense of ambition for Rochdale" for the town totally contradicts the "poor little Rochdale" line of ambition ("League One is success") he's advocated for the club, unless that refers to the ambitious appointments behind the scenes whilst the club win one match in all 19 home games because we can't budget adequately on the playing side.
D'Alien said recently, we don't let these things go, and nor should we especially after the ego trip mismanagement debacle up the road. Milky Bar kids we are not.
“Something is rotten in the state of Denmark" wrote Shakespeare in Hamlet. He means that the situation of Denmark was similar to a fish that rots from head to tail, an allegory which shows that everything is not good at top of the hierarchy. If he was around now and a Dale fan, and he'd just read about the Goldbond/Lotto debacle never mind Judd's excellent research, owd Shakey would swap Denmark for Spotland. Summat's up, and we're not having it. |  | | |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 10:15 - Feb 22 with 2797 views | TomRAFC |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 21:10 - Feb 21 by judd |
A poster on another thread poses the question why there are repeated references to an event of several years ago, and I got to thinking does he/she have a valid point?
I recalled the recent excellent podcast featuring our first ever Chief Executive in which he told the story of he and a fellow fan paying for a private investigator to look into a Rochdale Director that they had their doubts about, to huge congratulations and appreciation.
Nowadays. our history can leave easily accessible electronic footprints.
I then asked myself why is history taught throughout educational establishments and how is it used?
In answer to the this point, I believe it is so we can learn what has happened in the past and help us to understand the present.
Put this thought into employment and we can consider a CV as an historical factual representation of an individuals’ employment history, and is used by a prospective employer to help decide on the capability and credibility of the prospective employee.
What the poster referenced earlier appears to be referring to is the current CE’s involvement in the illegal price fixing cases whilst he was employed as a Sales Director at Hasbro. This involvement is in the public domain, and anything I write makes no accusations, purely relying on information freely accessible.
Against a background of Rochdale fans highlighting activity with regards the stewardship at Bury, RAFC released the following announcement in July 2015
New Director Welcomed Onto Dale Board - News - Rochdale AFC
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2015/july/new-director-welcomed-onto-dale-boa
From the biography is this:
“His career achievements include senior management positions in Sales/ Marketing and in General management, formerly with the World’s Largest Toy company, Hasbro. For over 10 years, in conjunction with a business partner, he built a start-up company that grew into one of the top 15 toy companies in the UK Toy Industry. David sold this business at the end of 2012 and is now involved in running another successful Toy Company.”
In October 2018 James Mason was announced as the new Chief Executive
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2018/october/james-mason-appointment/
Two months later the current CE agreed to step up this role
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2018/december/statement-from-andrew-kilpatric
His role in the Hasbro price fixing cases was broken on the unofficial fans message board and was subsequently discussed between the CE and the Supporters Trust
https://www.daletrust.co.uk/2019/02/meeting-with-the-club-27th-feb/
This how the Hasbro illegal price fixing was dealt with
“Conversations turned towards off the field matters that have also been causing concern amongst the fanbase recently. Questions on the messageboard earlier this week had queried a period of employment earlier in David Bottomley’s career that had been subject to speculation on the messageboard this week. We were informed that David actually appeared as a witness on behalf of the Office of Fair Trading, and it was on the public record that he was deemed as being the only credible witness whose evidence was considered wholly believable by the OFT. He left the company entirely of his own volition and continues to be in contact with senior staff.”
This answer appears to only deal with involvement in the 3rd case in which Argos and Littlewoods appealed the penalties imposed in the 2nd case, details below.
So, what of the Hasbro cases?
I will make this quite clear - in the reports of the following decisions in no way did he act unilaterally, and extracts are posted only to highlight some of the involvement, and should be read in conjunction with the Trust report above.
1. Competition Act 1998
Decision of Director General of Fair Trading
No. CA98/18/2002
Hasbro and Distributors
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/555de4c3ed915d7ae200016b/hasbro.p
Of note:
The Director considers that agreements between undertakings that fix prices are among the most serious infringements caught under the Chapter I prohibition. He will therefore impose a financial penalty on Hasbro. However, the Director will not impose financial penalties on any of the ten distributors as Hasbro had taken the initiative in fixing prices and the distributors were in a substantially weaker position. (Summary, page 1)
The resultant penalty imposed on Hasbro is therefore £4.95 million. (para 98)
David Bottomley, UK Sales Director, admitted in his statement to OFT officials
that he “was an instigator”. ..
It is the Director’s view that, in the person of David Bottomley, Hasbro’s senior management was fully aware of what the Distributors’ agreements involved and actively
encouraged their implementation. (para 89)
From the Guardian 29th November 2002:
“The fine is the largest handed out so far under the 1998 Competition Act, which prevents agreements among companies or people that have the effect of "preventing, restricting or distorting" competition.”
Hasbro decided not to appeal the penalty.
2. Competition Act 1998
Decision of the Office of Fair Trading
No. CA98/8/2003
Agreements between Hasbro U.K. Ltd, Argos Ltd and Littlewoods Ltd fixing the price of Hasbro toys and games
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/555de4d340f0b666a2000168/hasbro3.
Of note:
Argos fined £17.28m, Littlewoods £5.37m
The OFT considers that agreements between undertakings that fix prices are among the
most serious infringements caught under the Chapter I prohibition. It is therefore
imposing financial penalties on Hasbro, Argos and Littlewoods. However, Hasbro has
been granted 100% leniency since it was the first to provide the Director General of
Fair Trading (as he then was) with evidence of the infringing agreements before the
investigation commenced. Hasbro also co-operated fully. Therefore its penalty will be
reduced to nil. (From £15.59 million)
OFT is also aware of the remedial action taken by Hasbro's parent
company, Hasbro Inc, following its discovery of the infringement. It has taken
severe disciplinary action against the employees concerned (para 405)
3. IN THE COMPETITION APPEAL TRIBUNAL Cases: 1014 and 1015/1/1/03
BETWEEN:
(1) ARGOS LIMITED
(2) LITTLEWOODS LIMITED
Appellants
-v.-
OFFICE OF FAIR TRADING
(formerly the Director General of Fair Trading)
Respondent
https://www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5a8ff79260d03e7f57eaf5ee
Of note:
In our judgment, Mr. Thomson was a truthful witness, who gave evidence honestly as to
the facts as he saw them. Where his recollection was imprecise, he told us so, but on the
essential elements we find that Mr. Thomson’s recollection was reliable. In addition, his
evidence is broadly corroborated by the unchallenged evidence of Mr. Bottomley and Mr.
Wilson and is, in our view, consistent with the documents. (para 302)
Reverting now to the biography, and the next chapter in the CV, a business he sold at the end of 2012:
David Bottomley to leave Trends UK - Toy World Magazine | The business magazine with a passion for toys Toy World Magazine | The business magazine with a passion for toys
https://toyworldmag.co.uk/david-bottomley-to-leave-trends-uk/
Checking Companies House will reveal consecutive years of the Directors paying themselves 6 figure dividends and then a parting of ways.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/04615823
A few months later
https://toyworldmag.co.uk/trends-uk-moves-sales-and-marketing-operation/
Then
Asobi appoints new commercial director - Toy World Magazine | The business magazine with a passion for toysToy World Magazine | The business magazine with a passion for toys
https://toyworldmag.co.uk/asobi-appoints-new-commercial-director/
A few years later
https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/rochdale-ambassadors-promotes-investment-i
Asobi makes for interesting reading on Companies House:
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/06798691/fili
So, going back to the poster mentioned at the start, why do some refer back to events of a few years ago?
Because they have a relevance to how those events have been handled subsequently?
Because they throw doubt on credibility and capability?
Given the response reported by the Trust, is it fair to assume that the Directors of the club were unaware of the details of the Hasbro issues when appointments at the club were made?
Has the biography issued by the club inadvertently mis-reported the sale of a business in 2012?
Was “involved in running another successful Toy Company” researched via Companies House? In no way is the failure of this company being blamed on our now CE.
Running a football club, especially one so close to Bury, will bring with it significant levels of scrutiny. That there has been a recent explosion of supporter dissatisfaction with off field management will only amplify it. |
Thank you for this forensic insight. I really appreciate you using sources too.
Mr Bottomley "stepped up" to the role of CEO, so it would seem the club did not advertise the role. He had no experience in football and the club did not give itself chance to hire an experienced candidate. Was his past reviewed by the club in the level of detail Judd has?
I have zero knowledge of business law and I wouldn't pass comment on the legality of any of this. That being said, wilful conflicts of interest and irregularities are something that seem to be on repeat. Sadly, those are things that have also happened during his time at the club.
With the club in a period of obvious transition, now may be the time for his level of suitability for the job to be reviewed. Either way, an improved level of transparency is needed in order to reassure fans that he is a suitable character for the job, and a skilled enough individual to run a football club. At the moment, it's hard not to be unsure about both those things. |  |
| |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 16:18 - Feb 22 with 2467 views | Salegraham |
The Trust should be asking question's and insisting that the board answer them,not bluffing off | | | |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 18:03 - Feb 22 with 2358 views | judd |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 16:18 - Feb 22 by Salegraham |
The Trust should be asking question's and insisting that the board answer them,not bluffing off |
The Trust has broached the subjects of Hasbro and also the appointment.
The board were happy with the appointment is the memory I have from the report of the meeting. | |
| |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 09:09 - Feb 23 with 2712 views | MrSmith |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 21:10 - Feb 21 by judd |
A poster on another thread poses the question why there are repeated references to an event of several years ago, and I got to thinking does he/she have a valid point?
I recalled the recent excellent podcast featuring our first ever Chief Executive in which he told the story of he and a fellow fan paying for a private investigator to look into a Rochdale Director that they had their doubts about, to huge congratulations and appreciation.
Nowadays. our history can leave easily accessible electronic footprints.
I then asked myself why is history taught throughout educational establishments and how is it used?
In answer to the this point, I believe it is so we can learn what has happened in the past and help us to understand the present.
Put this thought into employment and we can consider a CV as an historical factual representation of an individuals’ employment history, and is used by a prospective employer to help decide on the capability and credibility of the prospective employee.
What the poster referenced earlier appears to be referring to is the current CE’s involvement in the illegal price fixing cases whilst he was employed as a Sales Director at Hasbro. This involvement is in the public domain, and anything I write makes no accusations, purely relying on information freely accessible.
Against a background of Rochdale fans highlighting activity with regards the stewardship at Bury, RAFC released the following announcement in July 2015
New Director Welcomed Onto Dale Board - News - Rochdale AFC
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2015/july/new-director-welcomed-onto-dale-boa
From the biography is this:
“His career achievements include senior management positions in Sales/ Marketing and in General management, formerly with the World’s Largest Toy company, Hasbro. For over 10 years, in conjunction with a business partner, he built a start-up company that grew into one of the top 15 toy companies in the UK Toy Industry. David sold this business at the end of 2012 and is now involved in running another successful Toy Company.”
In October 2018 James Mason was announced as the new Chief Executive
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2018/october/james-mason-appointment/
Two months later the current CE agreed to step up this role
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2018/december/statement-from-andrew-kilpatric
His role in the Hasbro price fixing cases was broken on the unofficial fans message board and was subsequently discussed between the CE and the Supporters Trust
https://www.daletrust.co.uk/2019/02/meeting-with-the-club-27th-feb/
This how the Hasbro illegal price fixing was dealt with
“Conversations turned towards off the field matters that have also been causing concern amongst the fanbase recently. Questions on the messageboard earlier this week had queried a period of employment earlier in David Bottomley’s career that had been subject to speculation on the messageboard this week. We were informed that David actually appeared as a witness on behalf of the Office of Fair Trading, and it was on the public record that he was deemed as being the only credible witness whose evidence was considered wholly believable by the OFT. He left the company entirely of his own volition and continues to be in contact with senior staff.”
This answer appears to only deal with involvement in the 3rd case in which Argos and Littlewoods appealed the penalties imposed in the 2nd case, details below.
So, what of the Hasbro cases?
I will make this quite clear - in the reports of the following decisions in no way did he act unilaterally, and extracts are posted only to highlight some of the involvement, and should be read in conjunction with the Trust report above.
1. Competition Act 1998
Decision of Director General of Fair Trading
No. CA98/18/2002
Hasbro and Distributors
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/555de4c3ed915d7ae200016b/hasbro.p
Of note:
The Director considers that agreements between undertakings that fix prices are among the most serious infringements caught under the Chapter I prohibition. He will therefore impose a financial penalty on Hasbro. However, the Director will not impose financial penalties on any of the ten distributors as Hasbro had taken the initiative in fixing prices and the distributors were in a substantially weaker position. (Summary, page 1)
The resultant penalty imposed on Hasbro is therefore £4.95 million. (para 98)
David Bottomley, UK Sales Director, admitted in his statement to OFT officials
that he “was an instigator”. ..
It is the Director’s view that, in the person of David Bottomley, Hasbro’s senior management was fully aware of what the Distributors’ agreements involved and actively
encouraged their implementation. (para 89)
From the Guardian 29th November 2002:
“The fine is the largest handed out so far under the 1998 Competition Act, which prevents agreements among companies or people that have the effect of "preventing, restricting or distorting" competition.”
Hasbro decided not to appeal the penalty.
2. Competition Act 1998
Decision of the Office of Fair Trading
No. CA98/8/2003
Agreements between Hasbro U.K. Ltd, Argos Ltd and Littlewoods Ltd fixing the price of Hasbro toys and games
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/555de4d340f0b666a2000168/hasbro3.
Of note:
Argos fined £17.28m, Littlewoods £5.37m
The OFT considers that agreements between undertakings that fix prices are among the
most serious infringements caught under the Chapter I prohibition. It is therefore
imposing financial penalties on Hasbro, Argos and Littlewoods. However, Hasbro has
been granted 100% leniency since it was the first to provide the Director General of
Fair Trading (as he then was) with evidence of the infringing agreements before the
investigation commenced. Hasbro also co-operated fully. Therefore its penalty will be
reduced to nil. (From £15.59 million)
OFT is also aware of the remedial action taken by Hasbro's parent
company, Hasbro Inc, following its discovery of the infringement. It has taken
severe disciplinary action against the employees concerned (para 405)
3. IN THE COMPETITION APPEAL TRIBUNAL Cases: 1014 and 1015/1/1/03
BETWEEN:
(1) ARGOS LIMITED
(2) LITTLEWOODS LIMITED
Appellants
-v.-
OFFICE OF FAIR TRADING
(formerly the Director General of Fair Trading)
Respondent
https://www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5a8ff79260d03e7f57eaf5ee
Of note:
In our judgment, Mr. Thomson was a truthful witness, who gave evidence honestly as to
the facts as he saw them. Where his recollection was imprecise, he told us so, but on the
essential elements we find that Mr. Thomson’s recollection was reliable. In addition, his
evidence is broadly corroborated by the unchallenged evidence of Mr. Bottomley and Mr.
Wilson and is, in our view, consistent with the documents. (para 302)
Reverting now to the biography, and the next chapter in the CV, a business he sold at the end of 2012:
David Bottomley to leave Trends UK - Toy World Magazine | The business magazine with a passion for toys Toy World Magazine | The business magazine with a passion for toys
https://toyworldmag.co.uk/david-bottomley-to-leave-trends-uk/
Checking Companies House will reveal consecutive years of the Directors paying themselves 6 figure dividends and then a parting of ways.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/04615823
A few months later
https://toyworldmag.co.uk/trends-uk-moves-sales-and-marketing-operation/
Then
Asobi appoints new commercial director - Toy World Magazine | The business magazine with a passion for toysToy World Magazine | The business magazine with a passion for toys
https://toyworldmag.co.uk/asobi-appoints-new-commercial-director/
A few years later
https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/rochdale-ambassadors-promotes-investment-i
Asobi makes for interesting reading on Companies House:
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/06798691/fili
So, going back to the poster mentioned at the start, why do some refer back to events of a few years ago?
Because they have a relevance to how those events have been handled subsequently?
Because they throw doubt on credibility and capability?
Given the response reported by the Trust, is it fair to assume that the Directors of the club were unaware of the details of the Hasbro issues when appointments at the club were made?
Has the biography issued by the club inadvertently mis-reported the sale of a business in 2012?
Was “involved in running another successful Toy Company” researched via Companies House? In no way is the failure of this company being blamed on our now CE.
Running a football club, especially one so close to Bury, will bring with it significant levels of scrutiny. That there has been a recent explosion of supporter dissatisfaction with off field management will only amplify it. |
I am a long time reader of this forum but have never felt the need to post before. I have read this post with fascination and fear.
I was not aware of all these details. if they are correct who is responsible for finding this out? I am very concerned by this. | | | |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 10:25 - Feb 23 with 2747 views | MrSmith |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 23:30 - Feb 21 by Sandyman |
The article at
https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/rochdale-ambassadors-promotes-investment-i
Guess he'd blame poor journalism for describing him as "David Bottomley, **owner** (??) of Rochdale AFC and national toy business Asobi.", but who told the reporter, especially about Asobi? Who would think to know such a thing in 2017 especially as it was listed as a "dormant company" for several years? He's "owned" neither. A tendency towards smoke and mirrors? Hmmm.
His alleged line "there’s no shared sense of ambition for Rochdale" for the town totally contradicts the "poor little Rochdale" line of ambition ("League One is success") he's advocated for the club, unless that refers to the ambitious appointments behind the scenes whilst the club win one match in all 19 home games because we can't budget adequately on the playing side.
D'Alien said recently, we don't let these things go, and nor should we especially after the ego trip mismanagement debacle up the road. Milky Bar kids we are not.
“Something is rotten in the state of Denmark" wrote Shakespeare in Hamlet. He means that the situation of Denmark was similar to a fish that rots from head to tail, an allegory which shows that everything is not good at top of the hierarchy. If he was around now and a Dale fan, and he'd just read about the Goldbond/Lotto debacle never mind Judd's excellent research, owd Shakey would swap Denmark for Spotland. Summat's up, and we're not having it. |
The more i read the more concerned i get. It is good to see supporters bring these things to our attention. | | | |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 10:29 - Feb 23 with 2740 views | SuddenLad |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 09:09 - Feb 23 by MrSmith |
I am a long time reader of this forum but have never felt the need to post before. I have read this post with fascination and fear.
I was not aware of all these details. if they are correct who is responsible for finding this out? I am very concerned by this. |
Everything you read in Judd's post is well-researched and correct. The rumours of involvement in the Hasbro scandal were being murmured well before the appointment as CEO.
Mindful of the complete carnage at Gigg Lane, further enquiries by some diligent supporters unearthed several links to the Hasbro story and the original report from the Office of Fair Trading was made available for anyone to read. That speaks for itself and details the large scale price-fixing arrangement and the multi-million £ fines issued for breaches of the rules.
As Judd says, what you have read thus far is a matter of public record. You are not the only person who has expressed 'concern'. | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
| |
| Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 13:17 - Feb 23 with 2577 views | milnrowblue |
An intriguing, yet terrifying & saddening thread, unearthing things I had no knowledge of.
A 100% genuine, non-rhetorical question; what can we, as supporters, actually do other than look on in hope as this man seemingly sucks the soul out of our club with each passing month? | | | |
| |
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