| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. 07:28 - Jun 28 with 38607 views | BigDaveMyCock |
Only speculation but a few things have happened, in particular in the Conservative Party, that makes me think that the appetite for Brexit has reduced significantly.
Cameron's decision not to invoke Article 50 immediately has thrown the leavers into turmoil as it is now down to one of them to do the ultimate. It will now be the responsibility of the new PM to invoke Articld 50, a move nobody intended, or wants, to make. IDS and Gove all noted by their absence and Boris looked pale as milk yesterday with the realisation that Merkel et al have said a firm no to negotiations prior to invoking Article 50. This means the future PM will have nothing to 'sell' to the country or the markets prior to invoking Article 50. They will not be able to have one piece of legislation or even negotiation in their hands re 50% of UK trade. It would be like pushing an economic nuclear bomb if a new PM was to invoke Article 50 in such a situation as market confidence would collapse and multinationals up sticks. This will be an even more difficult act to undertake if the UK is in recession, which even the leavers acknowledge may very well be the case. Indeed, Boris has come out attempting to ease fears by stating that the UK remains very much at the heart of Europe and nothing much will change with the ultimate irony being that if we are to negotiate access to the single market then the terms of that negotiations will be very much like what we have already. Merkel et al permitting.
There are now rumours that top people in the Tories including some leavers and whips are sufficiently spooked enough to not back Boris or another leave candidate.
Could be wrong but expect stalemate. EU will call UK bluff and UK will be unwilling to do the ultimate deed because they will not be able to get the deals they so desperately want. Fascinating times.
[Post edited 28 Jun 2016 7:35]
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| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 13:19 - Jul 15 with 1640 views | EllGazzell |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 13:13 - Jul 15 by JimmyRustler |
I just hope you get the treatment you need over there in the beautiful city which is Prague
Let me know how it feels looking at all that spectacular architecture whilst fully smacked of your tits (assuming you're not off yer box already). |
Yep, I've got the hook out successfully and dropped you in. |  |
| |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 21:00 - Jul 15 with 1494 views | JimmyRustler |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 13:19 - Jul 15 by EllGazzell |
Yep, I've got the hook out successfully and dropped you in. |
Kay fruitloop |  | | |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 21:08 - Jul 15 with 1493 views | anotherbiffo |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 08:52 - Jul 15 by HK_Dale |
How the f*ck are we accountable for the citizens of the rest of Europe and how have we compromised their well-being?
If you mean economically, please tell me you feel the same about Greece, Spain and Italy?
We are still a member of the UN security council (that won't change); we are still part of the G7 (that won't change), NATO and other supranational organisations, which have just chosen that the costs outweigh the benefits of being a member for one of those organisations. Also, I haven't seen any proposal to withdraw from the entire international community as a whole? Have you?!
All this bed-wetting and hyperbole is all to do with vague concepts about how we will no longer be perceived as being communitarian. But no one, not even the EU is saying they want to completely stop engaging with the UK. |
We're accountable to everybody on the planet - it's called solidarity and it's needed more than ever at this point in history - where we're at tipping point regarding climate, over-population and the related dangers of extremism. We've certainly compromised the well-being of our European relatives by putting in peril the cohesion of the union. The current slump of the pound is causing turmoil around the world, let alone in Europe.
Why turn the debate towards Spain, Greece or Italy? We're talking about Brexit here. The problems inherent in these countries are in a different chapter of the long list of complexities that the world faces in 2016. Likewise, why do you deflect matters by mentioning NATO, G7 etc? I'll gladly debate these issues with you in another thread.
I simply do not agree that the costs of being in the EU outweigh the benefits. It is here that the most hyperbole of all has been spun. I can't think of a single historical precedent where isolationism has engendered prosperity and peace. Although I agree that there may be a whole lot of concessions whereby Britain will remain present in the world (and European) community, the loss of (for example) scientific and cultural exchange will be quantifiable, the English language will cease to be used within the EU and a host of other ramifications, while individually not dramatic as such, would add to an erosion of influence. Bear in mind that tiny causes have great effects in an interlinked global economy. Bear in mind also, that we have always traded with the rest of the world outside of the constraints of the EU (with their blessing). So, far from gaining a great, new market, we're simply making it harder to do business within an existing, geographically strategic one. It's worth remembering too that we are simple no longer the manufacturing powerhouse we once were and never will be again. BMW will want to sell us their cars but we may no longer have the means to purchase them. Finally, don't underestimate the enormity of the financial burden of unraveling the administrative EU spaghetti - especially when in five years we'll probably be re-negotiating ourselves into the EEA. Amid a triumphant fanfare from whoever is at the helm of our leaky ship.
And herein lies the dilemma. Anything other than a total rupture of the umbilical cord will render Brexit an expensive failure. [Post edited 15 Jul 2016 21:09]
| | | |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 21:59 - Jul 15 with 1455 views | since58 |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 21:08 - Jul 15 by anotherbiffo |
We're accountable to everybody on the planet - it's called solidarity and it's needed more than ever at this point in history - where we're at tipping point regarding climate, over-population and the related dangers of extremism. We've certainly compromised the well-being of our European relatives by putting in peril the cohesion of the union. The current slump of the pound is causing turmoil around the world, let alone in Europe.
Why turn the debate towards Spain, Greece or Italy? We're talking about Brexit here. The problems inherent in these countries are in a different chapter of the long list of complexities that the world faces in 2016. Likewise, why do you deflect matters by mentioning NATO, G7 etc? I'll gladly debate these issues with you in another thread.
I simply do not agree that the costs of being in the EU outweigh the benefits. It is here that the most hyperbole of all has been spun. I can't think of a single historical precedent where isolationism has engendered prosperity and peace. Although I agree that there may be a whole lot of concessions whereby Britain will remain present in the world (and European) community, the loss of (for example) scientific and cultural exchange will be quantifiable, the English language will cease to be used within the EU and a host of other ramifications, while individually not dramatic as such, would add to an erosion of influence. Bear in mind that tiny causes have great effects in an interlinked global economy. Bear in mind also, that we have always traded with the rest of the world outside of the constraints of the EU (with their blessing). So, far from gaining a great, new market, we're simply making it harder to do business within an existing, geographically strategic one. It's worth remembering too that we are simple no longer the manufacturing powerhouse we once were and never will be again. BMW will want to sell us their cars but we may no longer have the means to purchase them. Finally, don't underestimate the enormity of the financial burden of unraveling the administrative EU spaghetti - especially when in five years we'll probably be re-negotiating ourselves into the EEA. Amid a triumphant fanfare from whoever is at the helm of our leaky ship.
And herein lies the dilemma. Anything other than a total rupture of the umbilical cord will render Brexit an expensive failure. [Post edited 15 Jul 2016 21:09]
|
what a load of ballcocks .fook off. | | | |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 22:20 - Jul 15 with 1434 views | TalkingSutty |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 18:47 - Jul 14 by roccydaleian |
Belfield. |
Real life that Roccy, it's done you no harm. Just like the Town Flats, some great people live in those flats, the type of people that would help you. |  | | |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 22:21 - Jul 15 with 1434 views | roccydaleian |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 21:08 - Jul 15 by anotherbiffo |
We're accountable to everybody on the planet - it's called solidarity and it's needed more than ever at this point in history - where we're at tipping point regarding climate, over-population and the related dangers of extremism. We've certainly compromised the well-being of our European relatives by putting in peril the cohesion of the union. The current slump of the pound is causing turmoil around the world, let alone in Europe.
Why turn the debate towards Spain, Greece or Italy? We're talking about Brexit here. The problems inherent in these countries are in a different chapter of the long list of complexities that the world faces in 2016. Likewise, why do you deflect matters by mentioning NATO, G7 etc? I'll gladly debate these issues with you in another thread.
I simply do not agree that the costs of being in the EU outweigh the benefits. It is here that the most hyperbole of all has been spun. I can't think of a single historical precedent where isolationism has engendered prosperity and peace. Although I agree that there may be a whole lot of concessions whereby Britain will remain present in the world (and European) community, the loss of (for example) scientific and cultural exchange will be quantifiable, the English language will cease to be used within the EU and a host of other ramifications, while individually not dramatic as such, would add to an erosion of influence. Bear in mind that tiny causes have great effects in an interlinked global economy. Bear in mind also, that we have always traded with the rest of the world outside of the constraints of the EU (with their blessing). So, far from gaining a great, new market, we're simply making it harder to do business within an existing, geographically strategic one. It's worth remembering too that we are simple no longer the manufacturing powerhouse we once were and never will be again. BMW will want to sell us their cars but we may no longer have the means to purchase them. Finally, don't underestimate the enormity of the financial burden of unraveling the administrative EU spaghetti - especially when in five years we'll probably be re-negotiating ourselves into the EEA. Amid a triumphant fanfare from whoever is at the helm of our leaky ship.
And herein lies the dilemma. Anything other than a total rupture of the umbilical cord will render Brexit an expensive failure. [Post edited 15 Jul 2016 21:09]
|
Christ what a pile of shite that is and most of it is conjecture and your opinion anyhow. Do us a favour Biff and stick to football or, if in a couple of years and a lot of things might have settled down, and some of that stuff comes to fruition, come back and tell us how clever you are. Otherwise just bore off please. |  | | |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 22:28 - Jul 15 with 1422 views | pioneer |
germany and france are crapping themselves because it used to be three countries supporting (financially) the european basket cases and now that burden is to be shared by two.
free at last! and the sun still comes up in the morning. | | | |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 22:58 - Jul 15 with 1403 views | R17ALE |
It's a pleasure to log onto this thread again and read some reasoned debate over brexit without having to suffer the interjections of some smug weirdo ranting on about how superior he is to everyone else in every department whilst still being full of shit.
However, our Oldham correspondent makes some interesting points which suggests he doesn't spend all his internet time on porn channels, instead choosing to venture further to the left to websites I've not heard of!
The correspondent for 1958 makes a curt point which suggests his head is screwed on and he deals in common sense and not conjecture. Likewise the correspondent for Belfield.
And TS! |  |
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| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 01:52 - Jul 16 with 1357 views | 49thseason |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 21:08 - Jul 15 by anotherbiffo |
We're accountable to everybody on the planet - it's called solidarity and it's needed more than ever at this point in history - where we're at tipping point regarding climate, over-population and the related dangers of extremism. We've certainly compromised the well-being of our European relatives by putting in peril the cohesion of the union. The current slump of the pound is causing turmoil around the world, let alone in Europe.
Why turn the debate towards Spain, Greece or Italy? We're talking about Brexit here. The problems inherent in these countries are in a different chapter of the long list of complexities that the world faces in 2016. Likewise, why do you deflect matters by mentioning NATO, G7 etc? I'll gladly debate these issues with you in another thread.
I simply do not agree that the costs of being in the EU outweigh the benefits. It is here that the most hyperbole of all has been spun. I can't think of a single historical precedent where isolationism has engendered prosperity and peace. Although I agree that there may be a whole lot of concessions whereby Britain will remain present in the world (and European) community, the loss of (for example) scientific and cultural exchange will be quantifiable, the English language will cease to be used within the EU and a host of other ramifications, while individually not dramatic as such, would add to an erosion of influence. Bear in mind that tiny causes have great effects in an interlinked global economy. Bear in mind also, that we have always traded with the rest of the world outside of the constraints of the EU (with their blessing). So, far from gaining a great, new market, we're simply making it harder to do business within an existing, geographically strategic one. It's worth remembering too that we are simple no longer the manufacturing powerhouse we once were and never will be again. BMW will want to sell us their cars but we may no longer have the means to purchase them. Finally, don't underestimate the enormity of the financial burden of unraveling the administrative EU spaghetti - especially when in five years we'll probably be re-negotiating ourselves into the EEA. Amid a triumphant fanfare from whoever is at the helm of our leaky ship.
And herein lies the dilemma. Anything other than a total rupture of the umbilical cord will render Brexit an expensive failure. [Post edited 15 Jul 2016 21:09]
|
The pound has had its best week for seven years. I suggest you try research before letting your fingers type total gateaux. |  | | |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 09:36 - Jul 16 with 1293 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 21:08 - Jul 15 by anotherbiffo |
We're accountable to everybody on the planet - it's called solidarity and it's needed more than ever at this point in history - where we're at tipping point regarding climate, over-population and the related dangers of extremism. We've certainly compromised the well-being of our European relatives by putting in peril the cohesion of the union. The current slump of the pound is causing turmoil around the world, let alone in Europe.
Why turn the debate towards Spain, Greece or Italy? We're talking about Brexit here. The problems inherent in these countries are in a different chapter of the long list of complexities that the world faces in 2016. Likewise, why do you deflect matters by mentioning NATO, G7 etc? I'll gladly debate these issues with you in another thread.
I simply do not agree that the costs of being in the EU outweigh the benefits. It is here that the most hyperbole of all has been spun. I can't think of a single historical precedent where isolationism has engendered prosperity and peace. Although I agree that there may be a whole lot of concessions whereby Britain will remain present in the world (and European) community, the loss of (for example) scientific and cultural exchange will be quantifiable, the English language will cease to be used within the EU and a host of other ramifications, while individually not dramatic as such, would add to an erosion of influence. Bear in mind that tiny causes have great effects in an interlinked global economy. Bear in mind also, that we have always traded with the rest of the world outside of the constraints of the EU (with their blessing). So, far from gaining a great, new market, we're simply making it harder to do business within an existing, geographically strategic one. It's worth remembering too that we are simple no longer the manufacturing powerhouse we once were and never will be again. BMW will want to sell us their cars but we may no longer have the means to purchase them. Finally, don't underestimate the enormity of the financial burden of unraveling the administrative EU spaghetti - especially when in five years we'll probably be re-negotiating ourselves into the EEA. Amid a triumphant fanfare from whoever is at the helm of our leaky ship.
And herein lies the dilemma. Anything other than a total rupture of the umbilical cord will render Brexit an expensive failure. [Post edited 15 Jul 2016 21:09]
|
Whether you agree with it or not I think that's pretty well written to be honest. [Post edited 16 Jul 2016 9:47]
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| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 09:46 - Jul 16 with 1282 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 21:59 - Jul 15 by since58 |
what a load of ballcocks .fook off. |
He's posting on a Brexit thread. Don't click on to it if you don't like to read people's opinion of Brexit. Perhaps it's better if you fook off? | |
| |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 09:49 - Jul 16 with 1276 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 22:21 - Jul 15 by roccydaleian |
Christ what a pile of shite that is and most of it is conjecture and your opinion anyhow. Do us a favour Biff and stick to football or, if in a couple of years and a lot of things might have settled down, and some of that stuff comes to fruition, come back and tell us how clever you are. Otherwise just bore off please. |
It's a thread about Brexit ffs? | |
| |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 09:53 - Jul 16 with 1271 views | roccydaleian |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 09:36 - Jul 16 by BigDaveMyCock |
Whether you agree with it or not I think that's pretty well written to be honest. [Post edited 16 Jul 2016 9:47]
|
No it's not, hardly any facts and just opinion and conjecture. | | | |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 09:57 - Jul 16 with 1268 views | roccydaleian |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 09:49 - Jul 16 by BigDaveMyCock |
It's a thread about Brexit ffs? |
Hence why I said, let's leave it now until things have settled down and see which directions things go. Pointless carrying on with debate at the moment with so many other things going on... Imo. | | | |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 09:59 - Jul 16 with 1266 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 09:53 - Jul 16 by roccydaleian |
No it's not, hardly any facts and just opinion and conjecture. |
Of course a lot of it is opinion and conjecture. We're talking about the future and we can only opine on that. Neither side of the debate can say for sure what will be the outcome - that's the only real fact in the whole debate. | |
| |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 10:08 - Jul 16 with 1262 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 01:52 - Jul 16 by 49thseason |
The pound has had its best week for seven years. I suggest you try research before letting your fingers type total gateaux. |
Hang on a minute that's a bit of slanted way of looking at it. It's improved from it's post Brexit low but it has not recovered its immediate pre Brexit level. I think a bit of objectivity should be employed here. You can pluck a statistic out of anywhere and generally make a case for it on both sides of the debate. I should also note we haven't Brexited yet and some of the recovery, may, and I say may, be as a result of it looking like it may be some way off. The big test will come when, and if, Article 50 is invoked. It's a phoney war until then. | |
| |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 10:10 - Jul 16 with 1260 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 09:57 - Jul 16 by roccydaleian |
Hence why I said, let's leave it now until things have settled down and see which directions things go. Pointless carrying on with debate at the moment with so many other things going on... Imo. |
Fair enough but some may still want to debate it despite you not wanting to. | |
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| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 11:12 - Jul 16 with 1224 views | HK_Dale |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 21:08 - Jul 15 by anotherbiffo |
We're accountable to everybody on the planet - it's called solidarity and it's needed more than ever at this point in history - where we're at tipping point regarding climate, over-population and the related dangers of extremism. We've certainly compromised the well-being of our European relatives by putting in peril the cohesion of the union. The current slump of the pound is causing turmoil around the world, let alone in Europe.
Why turn the debate towards Spain, Greece or Italy? We're talking about Brexit here. The problems inherent in these countries are in a different chapter of the long list of complexities that the world faces in 2016. Likewise, why do you deflect matters by mentioning NATO, G7 etc? I'll gladly debate these issues with you in another thread.
I simply do not agree that the costs of being in the EU outweigh the benefits. It is here that the most hyperbole of all has been spun. I can't think of a single historical precedent where isolationism has engendered prosperity and peace. Although I agree that there may be a whole lot of concessions whereby Britain will remain present in the world (and European) community, the loss of (for example) scientific and cultural exchange will be quantifiable, the English language will cease to be used within the EU and a host of other ramifications, while individually not dramatic as such, would add to an erosion of influence. Bear in mind that tiny causes have great effects in an interlinked global economy. Bear in mind also, that we have always traded with the rest of the world outside of the constraints of the EU (with their blessing). So, far from gaining a great, new market, we're simply making it harder to do business within an existing, geographically strategic one. It's worth remembering too that we are simple no longer the manufacturing powerhouse we once were and never will be again. BMW will want to sell us their cars but we may no longer have the means to purchase them. Finally, don't underestimate the enormity of the financial burden of unraveling the administrative EU spaghetti - especially when in five years we'll probably be re-negotiating ourselves into the EEA. Amid a triumphant fanfare from whoever is at the helm of our leaky ship.
And herein lies the dilemma. Anything other than a total rupture of the umbilical cord will render Brexit an expensive failure. [Post edited 15 Jul 2016 21:09]
|
We're only accountable to everyone on the planet if you assume believing in solidarity is a fait accompli, which I don't think it is. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the dominant paradigm that the political establishment operates is internationalism being a good thing.
The cohesion of the union being "put in peril" is exactly why I bring up Greece, Italy and Spain. This is not deflecting but drawing a comparative to the impacts their lax economic policies have had on the Eurozone. So if we won't to say how ashamed we are of the UK for doing this, surely the same applies? Or is it because their democratically elected governments made the decisions, not the people (via referenda) this doesn't count?
The point around NATO, the G7 and these other Supranational organisations again was not deflecting but emphasizing that, per your previous post, we are not disengaging from the international community, it is a decision to remove ourselves from one of these 'clubs'.
In terms of influence, being a member of the UN security council and G7 assures we can assert enough influence to make up from the limited impact of not being as influential in continental Europe.
We seem to be debating at two different levels here (philosophical vs. pragmatic) and I will concede that from a political philosophy standpoint, we probably have made ourselves more isolationist. What you and others have to demonstrate is that this is having / going to have significant negative practical impacts other than "people will think less of the UK". I genuinely cannot see how from a market perspective it is in the EU's interest to introduce tariff barriers etc. and we are more likely to be treated on a "third country" basis, similar to Switzerland from an economic standpoint.
Just because changing the status quo is difficult, doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. Moving away from an absolute monarchy was difficult, giving women the vote was difficult, but these things had to be done against the views of the establishment and the status quo, and we are much better off for it. |  | | |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 11:24 - Jul 16 with 1214 views | since58 |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 09:46 - Jul 16 by BigDaveMyCock |
He's posting on a Brexit thread. Don't click on to it if you don't like to read people's opinion of Brexit. Perhaps it's better if you fook off? |
That's my opinion .Fook off yerself. | | | |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 11:46 - Jul 16 with 1187 views | HK_Dale |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 21:08 - Jul 15 by anotherbiffo |
We're accountable to everybody on the planet - it's called solidarity and it's needed more than ever at this point in history - where we're at tipping point regarding climate, over-population and the related dangers of extremism. We've certainly compromised the well-being of our European relatives by putting in peril the cohesion of the union. The current slump of the pound is causing turmoil around the world, let alone in Europe.
Why turn the debate towards Spain, Greece or Italy? We're talking about Brexit here. The problems inherent in these countries are in a different chapter of the long list of complexities that the world faces in 2016. Likewise, why do you deflect matters by mentioning NATO, G7 etc? I'll gladly debate these issues with you in another thread.
I simply do not agree that the costs of being in the EU outweigh the benefits. It is here that the most hyperbole of all has been spun. I can't think of a single historical precedent where isolationism has engendered prosperity and peace. Although I agree that there may be a whole lot of concessions whereby Britain will remain present in the world (and European) community, the loss of (for example) scientific and cultural exchange will be quantifiable, the English language will cease to be used within the EU and a host of other ramifications, while individually not dramatic as such, would add to an erosion of influence. Bear in mind that tiny causes have great effects in an interlinked global economy. Bear in mind also, that we have always traded with the rest of the world outside of the constraints of the EU (with their blessing). So, far from gaining a great, new market, we're simply making it harder to do business within an existing, geographically strategic one. It's worth remembering too that we are simple no longer the manufacturing powerhouse we once were and never will be again. BMW will want to sell us their cars but we may no longer have the means to purchase them. Finally, don't underestimate the enormity of the financial burden of unraveling the administrative EU spaghetti - especially when in five years we'll probably be re-negotiating ourselves into the EEA. Amid a triumphant fanfare from whoever is at the helm of our leaky ship.
And herein lies the dilemma. Anything other than a total rupture of the umbilical cord will render Brexit an expensive failure. [Post edited 15 Jul 2016 21:09]
|
Duplicate post. [Post edited 16 Jul 2016 11:47]
| | | |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 12:16 - Jul 16 with 1158 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 11:24 - Jul 16 by since58 |
That's my opinion .Fook off yerself. |
Nope.
[Post edited 16 Jul 2016 12:25]
| |
| |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 12:22 - Jul 16 with 1149 views | since58 |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 12:16 - Jul 16 by BigDaveMyCock |
Nope.
[Post edited 16 Jul 2016 12:25]
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that's your opinion. | | | |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 12:27 - Jul 16 with 1147 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 12:22 - Jul 16 by since58 |
that's your opinion. |
Refusing to fook off isn't an opinion is it? | |
| |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 14:17 - Jul 16 with 1089 views | anotherbiffo |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 11:12 - Jul 16 by HK_Dale |
We're only accountable to everyone on the planet if you assume believing in solidarity is a fait accompli, which I don't think it is. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the dominant paradigm that the political establishment operates is internationalism being a good thing.
The cohesion of the union being "put in peril" is exactly why I bring up Greece, Italy and Spain. This is not deflecting but drawing a comparative to the impacts their lax economic policies have had on the Eurozone. So if we won't to say how ashamed we are of the UK for doing this, surely the same applies? Or is it because their democratically elected governments made the decisions, not the people (via referenda) this doesn't count?
The point around NATO, the G7 and these other Supranational organisations again was not deflecting but emphasizing that, per your previous post, we are not disengaging from the international community, it is a decision to remove ourselves from one of these 'clubs'.
In terms of influence, being a member of the UN security council and G7 assures we can assert enough influence to make up from the limited impact of not being as influential in continental Europe.
We seem to be debating at two different levels here (philosophical vs. pragmatic) and I will concede that from a political philosophy standpoint, we probably have made ourselves more isolationist. What you and others have to demonstrate is that this is having / going to have significant negative practical impacts other than "people will think less of the UK". I genuinely cannot see how from a market perspective it is in the EU's interest to introduce tariff barriers etc. and we are more likely to be treated on a "third country" basis, similar to Switzerland from an economic standpoint.
Just because changing the status quo is difficult, doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. Moving away from an absolute monarchy was difficult, giving women the vote was difficult, but these things had to be done against the views of the establishment and the status quo, and we are much better off for it. |
Thanks for replying. I respect your point of view and concede that our future trading position doesn't have to be catastrophic. My main reservations are, as I've said, 1/ the fact that even small fluctuations can cause chaos on the markets, and 2/ nobody knows (as David Davis himself acknowledges) how the EU will conduct itself vis à vis future negotiation. The fact that we do not exactly endear ourselves to the mainland does not bode well.
I'm of the opinion that Brexit was an ill conceived, popularist stunt created for political self-advancement and at a particularly inopportune moment in history. However, we must live with it, and be vigilant that we don't find ourselves 'back in the fold' but with reduced advantages. Having done considerable reading on the subject, I find that the various half-options (such as the EEA) give us a worse deal than full EU membership. | | | |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 14:18 - Jul 16 with 1087 views | mingthemerciless |
| Brexit. I wouldn't be so sure. on 10:08 - Jul 16 by BigDaveMyCock |
Hang on a minute that's a bit of slanted way of looking at it. It's improved from it's post Brexit low but it has not recovered its immediate pre Brexit level. I think a bit of objectivity should be employed here. You can pluck a statistic out of anywhere and generally make a case for it on both sides of the debate. I should also note we haven't Brexited yet and some of the recovery, may, and I say may, be as a result of it looking like it may be some way off. The big test will come when, and if, Article 50 is invoked. It's a phoney war until then. |
I agree. Very early days yet. | | | |
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