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Remain With or Leave the EU on 21:41 - Jun 12 by exiledclaseboy
The first sentence makes no sense. Without the referendum we'd be leaving nothing.
And no to your second point. As you know, I'm not a fan of referenda on principle. They have no purpose in a properly functioning parliamentary democracy. And given that you regularly bemoan the intelligence of the general populace are you saying you trust them to make the right decision? Or is it just ok this time because it's looking like they'll vote the way you want them to?
Referenda have no purpose in a proper functioning parliamentary democracy? I'm sure the Swiss will be delighted to know.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 21:50 - Jun 12 with 2158 views
Fact of the matter is labour voters are swinging this referendum.
Jeremy Corbyn has a lot to answer for but then I do understand his predicament he's always been anti eu. Labour just don't have any big hitters - they have to go back to the old guard all the time.
I don't want to sound like a broken record but the media don't help matters constantly looking for splits and not substance. The World War 3 hyperbole was manufactured Cameron spoke about the success of peace which is a true statement of fact.
Unfortunately as I've said many times you can sit through 2 hrs of excellent debate and all they'll pick up on is a nasty comment about the other side it's so predictable. Sadly because the politicians know this they trot out pathetic soundbites.
John Major interview was a case in point brilliant Interview - headlines all about Boris jeez
My father voted labour and his father voted labour and his father voted labour so I vote labour
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 21:51 - Jun 12 with 2148 views
Something as critical as the EU needs a referendum imo.
Where none of the parties likely to form a government were against EU membership, public have no choice. Given the EU has changed dramatically from what was voted for originally, it should have been held years ago.
Remain With or Leave the EU on 13:06 - Jun 12 by somersetsimon
In those examples you gave, the new theories were not put forward by nutjobs, they were put forward by scientists. When other scientists examined their theories and checked the evidence they accepted the new theory. Climate change has been examined in great detail by thousands of scientists all over the world using lots of different methods and they have come to the conclusion that it's man made.
Often people come out with "scientists keep changing their minds", when what actually happens is that a small study is published and picked up by the media, then later another small study by a different group shows different results. You generally find that when you do bigger, better trials and experiments you get closer to the truth and the outliers tend to disappear.
A classic example is the MMR scare a few years ago. Andrew Wakefield conducted a very small study (his methods and motivation have been questioned) which showed a correlation between MMR and autism. The media and the public went mental. When bigger studies were done (some covering thousands of children), there wasn't any correlation to see. Unfortunately, the early small studies tend to get the headlines and the larger correct ones aren't so exciting.
"In those examples you gave, the new theories were not put forward by nutjobs" Except of course that at the time they were considered nut jobs because they disagreed with the Concensus. You also say "Climate change has been examined in great detail by thousands of scientists all over the world using lots of different methods and they have come to the conclusion that it's man made. "
You do not know about the 1350 Peer Reviewed papers by Scientists that do not agree that it is Man made then. http://www.populartechnology.net/2009/10/peer-reviewed-papers-supporting.html You will not see anything about it in the press or the BBC. You will not see very much of anything contradictory to the Climate Change message. Do you know for instance that it has snowed in June in Ukraine Mexico Mount Washington Argentina Alaska Lapland China Chile Siberia Wyoming Zimbabwe (the first time Ever) Have you seen in it any Newspapers, on the BBC or ITV?
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 22:14 - Jun 12 with 2106 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 13:19 - Jun 12 by blueytheblue
You've never done an induction course at Met Office then ;) No poster here has said that.
My concern is if the consensus right now with the limited knowledge we have sends us down the wrong long term route.
You are wasting your time arguing with them, they accept the Concensus, they do not believe in any kind of conspiracy theories, even though it was in black & white in the Climategate emails. If you want more information as to why "Man Made Global Warming" is not a problem just let me know.
As you know Galileo was imprisoned for what he thought and now Politicians, Scientists and Climate Activists are trying to imprison anyone speaking out about their skepticism of the Message. They are trying to kill Freedom of Speech. If their case is so strong why do you think they want to return to medieval times?
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 22:20 - Jun 12 with 2098 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 22:14 - Jun 12 by exiledclaseboy
Ha. Pathetic.
Well hardly - I didn't account for the media coverage call it naive if you like but at the time I felt this had to be settled once and for all. Part of me still feels that but I don't like the way the debate has been totally dominated by immigration.
If the Country is so bothered by that then UKIP should win on a landslide it's so ridiculous really
My father voted labour and his father voted labour and his father voted labour so I vote labour
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 22:24 - Jun 12 with 2085 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 22:20 - Jun 12 by donkeylabour
Well hardly - I didn't account for the media coverage call it naive if you like but at the time I felt this had to be settled once and for all. Part of me still feels that but I don't like the way the debate has been totally dominated by immigration.
If the Country is so bothered by that then UKIP should win on a landslide it's so ridiculous really
Five days ago you made the "no more referendums " comment.
Remain With or Leave the EU on 22:20 - Jun 12 by donkeylabour
Well hardly - I didn't account for the media coverage call it naive if you like but at the time I felt this had to be settled once and for all. Part of me still feels that but I don't like the way the debate has been totally dominated by immigration.
If the Country is so bothered by that then UKIP should win on a landslide it's so ridiculous really
Plus to add to that I expected labour to have a respectable leader.
If that had been the case this would be done and dusted.
My father voted labour and his father voted labour and his father voted labour so I vote labour
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 22:27 - Jun 12 with 2080 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 22:25 - Jun 12 by donkeylabour
Plus to add to that I expected labour to have a respectable leader.
If that had been the case this would be done and dusted.
Five days ago you called for no more referendums. A fortnight ago you pronounced that referenda were "proven" to be a "disaster". Has Labour changed its leader in that time?
Remain With or Leave the EU on 22:30 - Jun 12 by exiledclaseboy
Just 40 minutes or so ago you said you "firmly believe" (present tense) in the referendum?
I'm typing on my phone it's hard to be clear.
I firmly believe that having backed a referendum it had to happen but I don't ever want to see one again.
Is that clear? If you advocate something then you can't undue it - do I regret supporting it, on balance probably yes. I backed it I was wrong to back it, I do however believe that if we do stay in then it will have proved positive as that will end it once and for all.
My father voted labour and his father voted labour and his father voted labour so I vote labour
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 22:38 - Jun 12 with 2040 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 22:35 - Jun 12 by donkeylabour
I'm typing on my phone it's hard to be clear.
I firmly believe that having backed a referendum it had to happen but I don't ever want to see one again.
Is that clear? If you advocate something then you can't undue it - do I regret supporting it, on balance probably yes. I backed it I was wrong to back it, I do however believe that if we do stay in then it will have proved positive as that will end it once and for all.
I think you decided you could have a go at me being not in favour of referenda generally (not just thus one) but forgot you'd very recently espoused the exact same view as me. Twice. Oops.
Remain With or Leave the EU on 22:38 - Jun 12 by exiledclaseboy
I think you decided you could have a go at me being not in favour of referenda generally (not just thus one) but forgot you'd very recently espoused the exact same view as me. Twice. Oops.
[Post edited 12 Jun 2016 22:38]
I was having a go at you because you're always banging on about democracy I never have. Just extracted the urine at bit as usual you got a bit sensitive
I still don't see why my position isn't clear. To break it down:
I supported (past tense) the concept of a referendum because I thought we'd have a non partisan debate
I now regret that support but I can't undo that and now we have to make the best of it.
I hope we stay in the EU and hope this divisive campaign may at least end this once and for all
My father voted labour and his father voted labour and his father voted labour so I vote labour
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 22:48 - Jun 12 with 2025 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 22:42 - Jun 12 by donkeylabour
I was having a go at you because you're always banging on about democracy I never have. Just extracted the urine at bit as usual you got a bit sensitive
I still don't see why my position isn't clear. To break it down:
I supported (past tense) the concept of a referendum because I thought we'd have a non partisan debate
I now regret that support but I can't undo that and now we have to make the best of it.
I hope we stay in the EU and hope this divisive campaign may at least end this once and for all
I don't see my position on referendums as being in conflict with those I hold on PR. Britain is a parliamentary democracy, we elect people to represent us in parliament. Parliament reigns in the excesses of the population. Thankfully. PR would simply serve to make parliament more properly representative of the way the people vote. Referenda have a place but they should be very much the exception.
Remain With or Leave the EU on 22:48 - Jun 12 by exiledclaseboy
I don't see my position on referendums as being in conflict with those I hold on PR. Britain is a parliamentary democracy, we elect people to represent us in parliament. Parliament reigns in the excesses of the population. Thankfully. PR would simply serve to make parliament more properly representative of the way the people vote. Referenda have a place but they should be very much the exception.
[Post edited 12 Jun 2016 22:48]
Who reigns in the excesses of parliament?
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 00:06 - Jun 13 with 1978 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 22:08 - Jun 12 by A_Fans_Dad
"In those examples you gave, the new theories were not put forward by nutjobs" Except of course that at the time they were considered nut jobs because they disagreed with the Concensus. You also say "Climate change has been examined in great detail by thousands of scientists all over the world using lots of different methods and they have come to the conclusion that it's man made. "
You do not know about the 1350 Peer Reviewed papers by Scientists that do not agree that it is Man made then. http://www.populartechnology.net/2009/10/peer-reviewed-papers-supporting.html You will not see anything about it in the press or the BBC. You will not see very much of anything contradictory to the Climate Change message. Do you know for instance that it has snowed in June in Ukraine Mexico Mount Washington Argentina Alaska Lapland China Chile Siberia Wyoming Zimbabwe (the first time Ever) Have you seen in it any Newspapers, on the BBC or ITV?
I didn't say that every scientist or published paper had the same result. What percentage of the total is 1350? The most recent figures I saw showed that over 97% of all papers published on the topic supported the man-made side.
To answer your second point, climate is not the same as weather. If anything, you'll expect to see more unusual weather incidents, both hot and cold, as the patterns change. If the average temperature in those locations was reducing over the last century, then you may be on to something.
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