| I follow. 16:07 - Oct 4 with 14514 views | 14bowlers |
Was the game on yesterday in the Radcliffe arms? |  | | |  |
| I follow. on 18:39 - Oct 9 with 1922 views | 442Dale |
| I follow. on 18:23 - Oct 9 by James1980 |
I can't be the only person who knows someone who won't fill in t&t forms and wouldn't self isolate if told to especially if not displaying any symptoms. |
I’m sure you’re not and it was no reflection on you, but it’s when people justify their behaviour to others that it really grates. Wouldn’t mind as much if it went unseen, even though that’s still wrong, but for people like that to give reasons why they aren’t following the rules only serves to increase annoyance and lead others to think “sod it, I’ll do the same”.
It’s been like this from the very start. If you have to justify why you’re doing something that is not within the rules, actually think how that might sound to someone else. It’s a small thing in the grand scheme of things, however we’d go a long way to getting through this if it didn’t happen. |  |
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| I follow. on 18:42 - Oct 9 with 1921 views | DaleiLama |
| I follow. on 13:21 - Oct 9 by DorsetDale |
Thanks for your concern. After all the prodding and poking etc.they couldn't find the cause of my ailment and eventually closed my case.
All is fine now however without being any the wiser!
We all know the vast majority of people died in the early months but the curve is well and truly flattened now.
My point still stands despite your blathering on about Calvin's lack of ability.
"deaths from flu have been particularly low this year"
I wonder why?
From your bbc link:
"some of those who died from covid-19 may have died of flu in a normal year, thereby reducing the flu death figures".
We can all pick quotes that suit our arguments.
You clearly get the majority of your thoughts on the subject from the bbc without any kind of critical analysis.
I can only assume you didn't bother to look at any of the links in my initial post.
The level of Cognitive Dissonance is astounding. |
Glad to hear no nasties were found - no news is good news sometimes and I wish Covid was no longer news like everyone else.
I think one of the reasons Calvin didn't score as many as he could was because the goalposts kept moving? Suspect they are positively dizzy today.
I'll have one last go at this then I'm done. I waive my right to reply and the last word is all yours if you wish, cos I'm weary with it (and with Covid) and there's things I'd rather do.
Cognition = understanding right?
The reason I replied to your first post was that you asked why the NHS didn't need protecting from being overloaded. I can well imagine that in Dorset, a largely rural county, a population spread out, with 1 University (?) and no cities, probably little poverty too, that Covid would not be top of too many hospital concerns and/or swamping issues and you got excellent Covid-unhindered care, which I'm glad about.
Lack of critical analysis - would thinking that the NHS didn't need protecting anywhere else might be a case of that? The data certainly supports that, as do health professionals
Cognitive dissonance = would that be someone on the internet thinking they might know more than someone who has trained in medicine, is a British medical academic and a general practitioner, Chair of the Royal College of General Practitioners, the UK's largest Medical Royal College, representing over 52,000 family doctors across the UK who happened to be on the BBC (though not employed by the BBC and not chosen to reflect a particular agenda)?
I think "the death rate is flat" has been more than adequately covered.
"some of those who died from covid-19 may have died of flu in a normal year, thereby reducing the flu death figures".
How many of the 48,168 Covid-related deaths would have been down to flu do you think? (ONS facts which happened to be reported by the BBC). This has to fit with the context of the "perspective (a term used very liberally in this instance), over the last 15 weeks 10 times more people have died of flu and pneumonia than covid in this country this year". I guess the figure has to be this year, as Covid didn't exist last year. One could only speculate why a 15 week period in the summer was chosen to compare numbers for flu, a mainly winter illness, with Covid post-lockdown numbers dipping to a low since the start of the pandemic, as the exercise would give a result that wasn't worth a shiny sh!te, if you'll forgive the expression. Maybe next March, when 4 seasons have run with all the seasonal variation, the number might be worthy of discussion and debate. This is critical thinking.
Another example of critical thinking is to question your contention that we should all carry on as normal as this is just the flu. That cognitive dissonance and lack of critical thinking also tempts me to sweep 53,774 excess deaths (a fact by the way as reported by PHE to end of w/c 18/9) under the carpet. These are excess deaths. Deaths over and above the flu. For less than 12 months with a winter ahead and rates rising alarmingly. I thought that all on my own. But it's probably not a good idea to ignore facts when informing strategy. That is my opinion and I think it's reasonably informed.
Mark's opinion, up the page, that the death rate this time round will almost certainly be correspondingly lower as a result of lower age ranges having a higher representation in the current high positive tests is an excellent point. Top class critical thinking that.
I'm genuinely sorry I'm cranky today. Some of the stuff you have posted though is all over the place in my lack of critical opinion. Sometimes, when all the world is against you though, you have to wonder is it me, or is it the world.
Love
Johnny Bananas. |  |
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| I follow. on 18:42 - Oct 9 with 1921 views | D_Alien |
| I follow. on 18:19 - Oct 9 by rochdaleriddler |
Not enough enforcement and yes lack of action on people like Cummings has led to where we are, also the unregulated social media that means every crackpot theory is allowed to be propagated , it’s only a cold, everyone under 60 is safe etc . Whilst not suggesting the govt is to blame for the pandemic, it could have done better, and it’s obsession with private over public has wasted time and money. I’m worried now about the next few months |
The Cummings incident didn't help, as was well discussed on here at the time, but my point was about attitudes in the population at large, as was your point!
There's a general malaise with lifestyle restrictions due to covid which, because of our greater freedoms, other countries perhaps don't have to contend with
It's not a political point as such, rather one of recognising the nature of the UK and not beating ourselves up about it. We're either non-conformists to authority or we aren't, and not conforming is, in different circumstances, something to be celebrated |  |
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| I follow. on 18:53 - Oct 9 with 1894 views | rochdaleriddler |
| I follow. on 18:42 - Oct 9 by DaleiLama |
Glad to hear no nasties were found - no news is good news sometimes and I wish Covid was no longer news like everyone else.
I think one of the reasons Calvin didn't score as many as he could was because the goalposts kept moving? Suspect they are positively dizzy today.
I'll have one last go at this then I'm done. I waive my right to reply and the last word is all yours if you wish, cos I'm weary with it (and with Covid) and there's things I'd rather do.
Cognition = understanding right?
The reason I replied to your first post was that you asked why the NHS didn't need protecting from being overloaded. I can well imagine that in Dorset, a largely rural county, a population spread out, with 1 University (?) and no cities, probably little poverty too, that Covid would not be top of too many hospital concerns and/or swamping issues and you got excellent Covid-unhindered care, which I'm glad about.
Lack of critical analysis - would thinking that the NHS didn't need protecting anywhere else might be a case of that? The data certainly supports that, as do health professionals
Cognitive dissonance = would that be someone on the internet thinking they might know more than someone who has trained in medicine, is a British medical academic and a general practitioner, Chair of the Royal College of General Practitioners, the UK's largest Medical Royal College, representing over 52,000 family doctors across the UK who happened to be on the BBC (though not employed by the BBC and not chosen to reflect a particular agenda)?
I think "the death rate is flat" has been more than adequately covered.
"some of those who died from covid-19 may have died of flu in a normal year, thereby reducing the flu death figures".
How many of the 48,168 Covid-related deaths would have been down to flu do you think? (ONS facts which happened to be reported by the BBC). This has to fit with the context of the "perspective (a term used very liberally in this instance), over the last 15 weeks 10 times more people have died of flu and pneumonia than covid in this country this year". I guess the figure has to be this year, as Covid didn't exist last year. One could only speculate why a 15 week period in the summer was chosen to compare numbers for flu, a mainly winter illness, with Covid post-lockdown numbers dipping to a low since the start of the pandemic, as the exercise would give a result that wasn't worth a shiny sh!te, if you'll forgive the expression. Maybe next March, when 4 seasons have run with all the seasonal variation, the number might be worthy of discussion and debate. This is critical thinking.
Another example of critical thinking is to question your contention that we should all carry on as normal as this is just the flu. That cognitive dissonance and lack of critical thinking also tempts me to sweep 53,774 excess deaths (a fact by the way as reported by PHE to end of w/c 18/9) under the carpet. These are excess deaths. Deaths over and above the flu. For less than 12 months with a winter ahead and rates rising alarmingly. I thought that all on my own. But it's probably not a good idea to ignore facts when informing strategy. That is my opinion and I think it's reasonably informed.
Mark's opinion, up the page, that the death rate this time round will almost certainly be correspondingly lower as a result of lower age ranges having a higher representation in the current high positive tests is an excellent point. Top class critical thinking that.
I'm genuinely sorry I'm cranky today. Some of the stuff you have posted though is all over the place in my lack of critical opinion. Sometimes, when all the world is against you though, you have to wonder is it me, or is it the world.
Love
Johnny Bananas. |
Johnny Bananas was described as good with really hard sums!  |  |
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| I follow. on 18:54 - Oct 9 with 1888 views | DaleiLama |
| I follow. on 18:39 - Oct 9 by 442Dale |
I’m sure you’re not and it was no reflection on you, but it’s when people justify their behaviour to others that it really grates. Wouldn’t mind as much if it went unseen, even though that’s still wrong, but for people like that to give reasons why they aren’t following the rules only serves to increase annoyance and lead others to think “sod it, I’ll do the same”.
It’s been like this from the very start. If you have to justify why you’re doing something that is not within the rules, actually think how that might sound to someone else. It’s a small thing in the grand scheme of things, however we’d go a long way to getting through this if it didn’t happen. |
I used to work in automotive. It's one of the most demanding industries in existence in most respects but with Japanese transplants, with whom I worked, attention to quality was obsessive. I'll call the company JX for the sake of confidentiality. JX would have trial after trial after trial and meeting after meeting after meeting to obsess over the quality of an individual part until it was absolutely 100% perfect. I once questioned why they were so obsessive with one part to a Japanese colleague. The answer was: a car is made up of 5000 (for example) parts and if each part had a small defect in it's production, the OEM would be selling a car with 5000 defects.
Apply the same logic to a 66m+ population ........ | |
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| I follow. on 19:21 - Oct 9 with 1854 views | 442Dale |
| I follow. on 18:54 - Oct 9 by DaleiLama |
I used to work in automotive. It's one of the most demanding industries in existence in most respects but with Japanese transplants, with whom I worked, attention to quality was obsessive. I'll call the company JX for the sake of confidentiality. JX would have trial after trial after trial and meeting after meeting after meeting to obsess over the quality of an individual part until it was absolutely 100% perfect. I once questioned why they were so obsessive with one part to a Japanese colleague. The answer was: a car is made up of 5000 (for example) parts and if each part had a small defect in it's production, the OEM would be selling a car with 5000 defects.
Apply the same logic to a 66m+ population ........ |
It’s a good analogy. Chaos theory/the butterfly effect can also come into it, albeit with more specific outcomes as a result of actions. In broader terms it’s about thinking about the bigger picture, and while that is very difficult and sometimes impossible in current circumstances, there’s little doubt that outwardly justifying unnecessarily is achieving very little towards a positive route forward. | |
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| I follow. on 19:25 - Oct 9 with 1841 views | James1980 |
| I follow. on 18:39 - Oct 9 by 442Dale |
I’m sure you’re not and it was no reflection on you, but it’s when people justify their behaviour to others that it really grates. Wouldn’t mind as much if it went unseen, even though that’s still wrong, but for people like that to give reasons why they aren’t following the rules only serves to increase annoyance and lead others to think “sod it, I’ll do the same”.
It’s been like this from the very start. If you have to justify why you’re doing something that is not within the rules, actually think how that might sound to someone else. It’s a small thing in the grand scheme of things, however we’d go a long way to getting through this if it didn’t happen. |
I've told him he is basically being a selfish a55. | |
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| I follow. on 19:48 - Oct 9 with 1801 views | 442Dale |
| I follow. on 19:25 - Oct 9 by James1980 |
I've told him he is basically being a selfish a55. |
Good. People need to hear it. And if they don’t want to they either stop doing what they know they shouldn’t or refrain from advertising it with reasons why and expecting others to agree or accept their reasoning.
What’s the point though? No fu(ker has learnt that so far, so no doubt your mate thinks you’re being unfair, James. Rest assured knowing you’ve took a stance for the right reasons. | |
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| I follow. on 19:52 - Oct 9 with 1797 views | 442Dale |
The Greater Manchester local authorities have been meeting with the government today. From the MEN reporter Jen Williams:
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| I follow. on 20:02 - Oct 9 with 1770 views | rochdaleriddler |
| I follow. on 19:52 - Oct 9 by 442Dale |
The Greater Manchester local authorities have been meeting with the government today. From the MEN reporter Jen Williams:
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I’m not a fan of Brett, but he’s not wrong! | |
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| I follow. on 20:18 - Oct 9 with 1738 views | James1980 |
Back to the subject of bars and restaurants. I think it will be incredibly harsh on those that are following covid secure guidelines properly to close all hostelries because of those that are not following the guidelines.
I would also say that a lot of the spread is occurring on public transport considering the number of people I see on a daily basis not wearing a face covering, including the staff, who also struggle with social distancing. | |
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| I follow. on 20:31 - Oct 9 with 1713 views | DaleFan7 |
| I follow. on 20:02 - Oct 9 by rochdaleriddler |
I’m not a fan of Brett, but he’s not wrong! |
A bit rich coming from him though. | | | |
| I follow. on 20:36 - Oct 9 with 1698 views | 442Dale |
| I follow. on 20:18 - Oct 9 by James1980 |
Back to the subject of bars and restaurants. I think it will be incredibly harsh on those that are following covid secure guidelines properly to close all hostelries because of those that are not following the guidelines.
I would also say that a lot of the spread is occurring on public transport considering the number of people I see on a daily basis not wearing a face covering, including the staff, who also struggle with social distancing. |
In the pubs/bars, there is a definite argument they should be treated like other places who have to prove they’re ‘Covid secure’ and then stay open, however that needs to include a total commitment to the current guidelines. That would require an assurance that nobody is visiting the pub with their mate(s) and only those in the same household. Could they all commit to ensuring that including stopping people sitting at the same table inside or out if they aren’t following that rule? | |
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| I follow. on 20:39 - Oct 9 with 1690 views | D_Alien |
| I follow. on 20:18 - Oct 9 by James1980 |
Back to the subject of bars and restaurants. I think it will be incredibly harsh on those that are following covid secure guidelines properly to close all hostelries because of those that are not following the guidelines.
I would also say that a lot of the spread is occurring on public transport considering the number of people I see on a daily basis not wearing a face covering, including the staff, who also struggle with social distancing. |
That's a very good point James, and what i was getting at when i asked whether you were able to challenge anyone not appearing to comply with the guidelines on face coverings a few days ago
Public transport is a far more enclosed environment than bars or restaurants, and we can all remember steamed-up windows on buses and trains, absolute breeding grounds for viruses
In a place of work, it's very difficult to take issue with colleagues who're ignoring the rules and social distancing is just the latest and perhaps most threatening of those types of behaviours | |
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| I follow. on 20:52 - Oct 9 with 1657 views | 442Dale |
| I follow. on 20:39 - Oct 9 by D_Alien |
That's a very good point James, and what i was getting at when i asked whether you were able to challenge anyone not appearing to comply with the guidelines on face coverings a few days ago
Public transport is a far more enclosed environment than bars or restaurants, and we can all remember steamed-up windows on buses and trains, absolute breeding grounds for viruses
In a place of work, it's very difficult to take issue with colleagues who're ignoring the rules and social distancing is just the latest and perhaps most threatening of those types of behaviours |
It’s also extremely tiresome to take issue because, far too often, the lack of awareness and intelligence to even assess their own actions makes it almost impossible.
Want to reiterate, it’s not so much about people who do what they want/break the rules etc, more the effect on others when they try and tell everyone why and a refusal to even say “hold my hands up, I’m wrong”. Then them being offended when someone dares to challenge their argument, when the person challenging would rather not have had to hear it in the first place. | |
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| I follow. on 20:54 - Oct 9 with 1650 views | rochdaleriddler |
| I follow. on 20:31 - Oct 9 by DaleFan7 |
A bit rich coming from him though. |
I know | |
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| I follow. on 22:09 - Oct 9 with 1596 views | robtheb |
Isn't it time all parties came together to solve this problem instead of everyone trying to score points and votes? | | | |
| I follow. on 22:47 - Oct 9 with 1558 views | nordenblue |
| I follow. on 22:09 - Oct 9 by robtheb |
Isn't it time all parties came together to solve this problem instead of everyone trying to score points and votes? |
Since when has that ever happened? | | | |
| I follow. on 23:33 - Oct 9 with 1523 views | rochdaleriddler |
| I follow. on 22:09 - Oct 9 by robtheb |
Isn't it time all parties came together to solve this problem instead of everyone trying to score points and votes? |
Votes? No election on the horizon. Short of donning a blue rosette I don’t think the opposition parties could have been more behind the govt, however it is the oppositions role to point out shortcomings and hold them to account | |
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| I follow. on 23:56 - Oct 9 with 1510 views | robtheb |
| I follow. on 22:47 - Oct 9 by nordenblue |
Since when has that ever happened? |
Very rarely I know but this a strange time. Save all the bickering until it's over. | | | |
| I follow. on 08:36 - Oct 10 with 1409 views | Ancoats_Blue |
| I follow. on 16:44 - Oct 9 by rochdaleriddler |
Just read that one of the signatories to the Barrington declaration is one Dr Johnny Bananas, and several co-signees are not in fact doctors Hmmmm |
Don’t dispute the signature is bollocks. It’d be easy to verify with the GMC. But I have actually met someone with that surname before, so weird name doesn’t necessarily mean fake. In fairness though they were from Zimbabwe and apparently not the most upstanding resident of the UK... |  | | |
| I follow. on 10:12 - Oct 10 with 1329 views | SuddenLad |
| I follow. on 08:36 - Oct 10 by Ancoats_Blue |
Don’t dispute the signature is bollocks. It’d be easy to verify with the GMC. But I have actually met someone with that surname before, so weird name doesn’t necessarily mean fake. In fairness though they were from Zimbabwe and apparently not the most upstanding resident of the UK... |
Canaan Banana was a former President of Zimbabwe. Not an unusual name in those parts. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| I follow. on 11:06 - Oct 10 with 1268 views | DaleiLama |
| I follow. on 18:53 - Oct 9 by rochdaleriddler |
Johnny Bananas was described as good with really hard sums! |
No doubt after he mastered his Fyffe times table? | |
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| I follow. on 11:11 - Oct 10 with 1257 views | Dalenet |
| I follow. on 21:20 - Oct 8 by 442Dale |
The info below comes from the gov.uk website data for the North West, giving a factual overview for how the situation has developed since the start of September.
Daily count of confirmed COVID-19 patients in hospital at midnight the preceding night.
08-10-2020 1,098
07-10-2020 1,030
06-10-2020 996
05-10-2020 889
04-10-2020 816
03-10-2020 725
02-10-2020 676
01-10-2020 662
30-09-2020 660
29-09-2020 612
28-09-2020 604
27-09-2020 544
26-09-2020 542
25-09-2020 514
24-09-2020 483
23-09-2020 439
22-09-2020 417
21-09-2020 393
20-09-2020 355
19-09-2020 335
18-09-2020 312
17-09-2020 309
16-09-2020 287
15-09-2020 269
14-09-2020 253
13-09-2020 193
12-09-2020 196
11-09-2020 180
10-09-2020 174
09-09-2020 173
08-09-2020 166
07-09-2020 164
06-09-2020 139
05-09-2020 133
04-09-2020 130
03-09-2020 124
02-09-2020 112
01-09-2020 117
Daily count of confirmed COVID-19 patients in mechanical ventilation beds.
08-10-2020 117
07-10-2020 115
06-10-2020 108
05-10-2020 104
04-10-2020 95
03-10-2020 91
02-10-2020 93
01-10-2020 89
30-09-2020 91
29-09-2020 82
28-09-2020 74
27-09-2020 68
26-09-2020 77
25-09-2020 69
24-09-2020 60
23-09-2020 56
22-09-2020 46
21-09-2020 40
20-09-2020 39
19-09-2020 33
18-09-2020 34
17-09-2020 32
16-09-2020 29
15-09-2020 25
14-09-2020 23
13-09-2020 18
12-09-2020 19
11-09-2020 16
10-09-2020 13
09-09-2020 14
08-09-2020 16
07-09-2020 15
06-09-2020 12
05-09-2020 13
04-09-2020 16
03-09-2020 16
02-09-2020 17
01-09-2020 17 |
The medical director for Greater Manchester was on the news last night and he said that a third of critical care beds were now full with covid patients. Pretty sure sign that in two weeks time they will be full at this rate
So why haven't they opened the Nightingales again. If you have covid you are taken to the Nightingale. The rest of the hospital services can then be protected for those needing other urgent treatments. After 9 months you'd have thought they would have worked that out and started testing everybody on arrival. It can't be long before we leave the care home residents in their beds to die struggling to breathe as we did in April. Disgraceful | | | |
| I follow. on 11:25 - Oct 10 with 1238 views | nordenblue |
| I follow. on 11:11 - Oct 10 by Dalenet |
The medical director for Greater Manchester was on the news last night and he said that a third of critical care beds were now full with covid patients. Pretty sure sign that in two weeks time they will be full at this rate
So why haven't they opened the Nightingales again. If you have covid you are taken to the Nightingale. The rest of the hospital services can then be protected for those needing other urgent treatments. After 9 months you'd have thought they would have worked that out and started testing everybody on arrival. It can't be long before we leave the care home residents in their beds to die struggling to breathe as we did in April. Disgraceful |
I guess the Nightingale type "hospitals" don't have as many staff,materials and only used as a back up for the normal services if/when they struggle to cope so not used as a first option | | | |
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