| I follow. 16:07 - Oct 4 with 14577 views | 14bowlers |
Was the game on yesterday in the Radcliffe arms? |  | | |  |
| I follow. on 08:22 - Oct 9 with 1853 views | judd |
Does anyone know if Hendo has tested positive at all? |  |
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| I follow. on 08:27 - Oct 9 with 1844 views | DaleiLama |
| I follow. on 07:59 - Oct 9 by nordenblue |
Are they still classing anyone who dies within 28 days of a positive test having then died due to covid,again this is bonkers too as surepy it can literally include ANY kind of cause of death? |
A death certificate can have multiple causes. Dad's was old age and pneumonia. Not sure how that is recorded in official stats though I must admit. Both contributed. Just as Covid contributes. |  |
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| I follow. on 09:05 - Oct 9 with 1783 views | Nigeriamark |
| I follow. on 21:36 - Oct 8 by DaleiLama |
From running out of beds, ventilators and staff to treat people with Covid. What else would it need protecting from?
I holidayed in Devon this year. Everywhere was very well organised. Comparing the status quo in Dorset to Greater Manchester though is like comparing chalk and cheese. Or like comparing summer post-lockdown when rates were at a minimum to an autumn where they are rising exponentially you could say?
This may not be happening to you or in Dorset, but it is here and now to folk in the NW. In two weeks the rates have gone from 100 cases/100k to 500 cases. Is this really down to extra testing? Let's see what the scientists, doctors and politicians believe and decide shall we? I think they'll have a very different take to yours.
I'm not going to have a "post as many links as possible to support ones claims" contest, but I did listen to Professor Helen Stokes Lampard, a GP who also chairs the Academy of Medical Royal Colleges. She observed the number of people going into hospital and ICU is very measurable. It isn't out of control yet, but if left unchecked it will become so. Like it was pre-lockdown. Listen yourself if you wish.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000n7ph/bbc-news-bbc-news-at-9-08102020
I actually heard her on a different bulletin which is no longer available in which she was much more voluble and cautionary.
She fully supports your contention (and any right-minded person) that the NHS must go on doing what it does so well. The NHS also can't force people to use its services and if all staff are diverted to treating Covid patients, there isn't going to be much of a service for non-Covid patients. Think we'd better agree to disagree about the other stuff. If you don't think death rates are rising and don't think Covid can contribute to people dying but not necessarily be the sole cause of death ......... |
Reporting today that of the latest cases, about 30% attributed to socialising in bars/restaurants etc. Unlike the beginning when everybody was interacting with everybody else, I would imagine a lot of the interaction in this situation (& universities) will be primarily amongst the young, with worried or vulnerable people staying away. As a result I would expect cases and deaths to rise, but the deaths not in proportion to before. However action still has to be taken based on the virus, not on what people want, or at least give people a methodology to do an assessment of their own personal belief of risk based on facts not scare stories
Won't happen even though quite simple to do |  | | |
| I follow. on 09:05 - Oct 9 with 1780 views | nordenblue |
| I follow. on 08:22 - Oct 9 by judd |
Does anyone know if Hendo has tested positive at all? |
Positive for what.... | | | |
| I follow. on 09:10 - Oct 9 with 1777 views | DorsetDale |
| I follow. on 22:41 - Oct 8 by 442Dale |
Looking at things even more locally, the figures for Rochdale’s daily cases for the last week in August and for the week up to the 6th October are below:
––
Number of people with at least one lab-confirmed positive COVID-19 test result, by specimen date.
31-08-2020 14
30-08-2020 15
29-08-2020 7
28-08-2020 17
27-08-2020 17
26-08-2020 16
25-08-2020 13
Total: 99
06-10-2020 117
05-10-2020 149
04-10-2020 90
03-10-2020 93
02-10-2020 121
01-10-2020 140
30-09-2020 113
Total: 823
In the interests of assessing the differences in areas of the country, the same figures for Dorset for those weeks:
31-08-2020 2
30-08-2020 0
29-08-2020 3
28-08-2020 2
27-08-2020 1
26-08-2020 2
25-08-2020 0
Total: 10
06-10-2020 22
05-10-2020 23
04-10-2020 12
03-10-2020 12
02-10-2020 14
01-10-2020 18
30-09-2020 16
Total: 117 [Post edited 8 Oct 2020 22:47]
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Again,thanks.
Obviously any admission/diagnosis is one too many. Unfortunately it's that time of year when infection rates do go up for these kind of problems.
The reason I asked for the link was to see if there is a graph age related which there is.
Beginning eldest first we have over 85's, then 65-84, then 18-64.
It's a near certainty that last group, if broken down further,would show the under 60's as being at very low risk.
Somewhat disingenuous wouldn't you say?
Let's not forget, however they're dressed up, the figures reported are tiny when compared to any previous "pandemic".
Swine flu killed more people yet we all went about our lives blissfully unaware without lockdown.
To put things into further perspective, over the last 15 weeks 10 times more people have died of flu and pneumonia than covid in
this country this year.
I won't post a link for fear of being accused of backing up my claims with evidence of the facts ;) | |
| YOU do not have the right to give someone else permission to tell me what I can and can't do. |
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| I follow. on 09:32 - Oct 9 with 1762 views | nordenblue |
| I follow. on 09:10 - Oct 9 by DorsetDale |
Again,thanks.
Obviously any admission/diagnosis is one too many. Unfortunately it's that time of year when infection rates do go up for these kind of problems.
The reason I asked for the link was to see if there is a graph age related which there is.
Beginning eldest first we have over 85's, then 65-84, then 18-64.
It's a near certainty that last group, if broken down further,would show the under 60's as being at very low risk.
Somewhat disingenuous wouldn't you say?
Let's not forget, however they're dressed up, the figures reported are tiny when compared to any previous "pandemic".
Swine flu killed more people yet we all went about our lives blissfully unaware without lockdown.
To put things into further perspective, over the last 15 weeks 10 times more people have died of flu and pneumonia than covid in
this country this year.
I won't post a link for fear of being accused of backing up my claims with evidence of the facts ;) |
Isnt there a vaccine for both flu and pneumonia though,sets it apart from the current virus some what? | | | |
| I follow. on 09:33 - Oct 9 with 1761 views | pioneer |
| I follow. on 07:59 - Oct 9 by nordenblue |
Are they still classing anyone who dies within 28 days of a positive test having then died due to covid,again this is bonkers too as surepy it can literally include ANY kind of cause of death? |
To be fair they are reporting it literally as the number dying within 28 days of a positive test but then others interpret that as they please. | | | |
| I follow. on 09:33 - Oct 9 with 1761 views | DorsetDale |
| I follow. on 09:05 - Oct 9 by Nigeriamark |
Reporting today that of the latest cases, about 30% attributed to socialising in bars/restaurants etc. Unlike the beginning when everybody was interacting with everybody else, I would imagine a lot of the interaction in this situation (& universities) will be primarily amongst the young, with worried or vulnerable people staying away. As a result I would expect cases and deaths to rise, but the deaths not in proportion to before. However action still has to be taken based on the virus, not on what people want, or at least give people a methodology to do an assessment of their own personal belief of risk based on facts not scare stories
Won't happen even though quite simple to do |
You asked for the facts not scare stories.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8780631/Pubs-bars-restaurants-blame-3-c | |
| YOU do not have the right to give someone else permission to tell me what I can and can't do. |
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| I follow. on 09:42 - Oct 9 with 1748 views | DorsetDale |
| I follow. on 09:32 - Oct 9 by nordenblue |
Isnt there a vaccine for both flu and pneumonia though,sets it apart from the current virus some what? |
Indeed. Imagine how many might die without one.
Truth is generally speaking, it's the elderly and people "at risk" that
have the vaccine and yet it's also folk in those groups that die.
Why? Because in any single year the flu shot is around 40% effective.
Covid by and large, like the flu, effects the vulnerable, the rest of us are safe to carry on as normal. | |
| YOU do not have the right to give someone else permission to tell me what I can and can't do. |
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| I follow. on 10:00 - Oct 9 with 1727 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| I follow. on 08:22 - Oct 9 by judd |
Does anyone know if Hendo has tested positive at all? |
I don’t know but I think if Dawson gets it we get 25% of it, in instalments. Perhaps a mild cough followed by not being able to taste very tasteless food, such as mozzarella, in a couple of months or summat. | |
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| I follow. on 10:09 - Oct 9 with 1718 views | nordenblue |
| I follow. on 09:42 - Oct 9 by DorsetDale |
Indeed. Imagine how many might die without one.
Truth is generally speaking, it's the elderly and people "at risk" that
have the vaccine and yet it's also folk in those groups that die.
Why? Because in any single year the flu shot is around 40% effective.
Covid by and large, like the flu, effects the vulnerable, the rest of us are safe to carry on as normal. |
Agree with the majority of your post, your last line definitely isn't true though, the rest of us Aren't safe to carry on as normal | | | |
| I follow. on 10:10 - Oct 9 with 1718 views | D_Alien |
| I follow. on 09:42 - Oct 9 by DorsetDale |
Indeed. Imagine how many might die without one.
Truth is generally speaking, it's the elderly and people "at risk" that
have the vaccine and yet it's also folk in those groups that die.
Why? Because in any single year the flu shot is around 40% effective.
Covid by and large, like the flu, effects the vulnerable, the rest of us are safe to carry on as normal. |
I'm afraid your arguments display a woeful lack of epidemiology, not least of which is having those least at risk increasing the transmission rates to those at most risk through familial contact
It's not useful to base opinions in this field on personal or anecdotal experience. There remain too many unknowns about this disease, including how 'long covid' will affect populations, including all age groups
It must be suppressed, but with damage limitation to the economy, education and those with other disease profiles being delayed treatment. I defy anyone to think they know best, i certainly don't and any government will struggle with it as we're seeing throughout Europe and beyond |  |
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| I follow. on 11:15 - Oct 9 with 1646 views | rochdaleriddler |
The Daily Mail and facts are seldom related |  |
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| I follow. on 11:42 - Oct 9 with 1624 views | DorsetDale |
| I follow. on 10:10 - Oct 9 by D_Alien |
I'm afraid your arguments display a woeful lack of epidemiology, not least of which is having those least at risk increasing the transmission rates to those at most risk through familial contact
It's not useful to base opinions in this field on personal or anecdotal experience. There remain too many unknowns about this disease, including how 'long covid' will affect populations, including all age groups
It must be suppressed, but with damage limitation to the economy, education and those with other disease profiles being delayed treatment. I defy anyone to think they know best, i certainly don't and any government will struggle with it as we're seeing throughout Europe and beyond |
I'm not an epidemiologist - woefully or otherwise - so can only base my thoughts on those that are.
My original post links to the Barrington Declaration published by Professors Jay Bhattacharrya of Stanford University, Sunetra Gupta of Oxford University, and Martin Kulldorf of Harvard University.
All are renowned epidemiologists.
When new virus's appear there are always unknowns but are dealt with commonsenseicly to coin the new buzz word.
Never before has there been such disproportionate reaction to a virus as now. And yes, it's only my opinion.
You'll surely have noted though that this is my first foray into the debate on here. That's because before jumping in with both feet, I've spent months listening to and reading professionals (including those in the field speaking anonymously out of fear of losing jobs - anecdotal if you wish - they have no reason to lie though) not given a voice on the bbc/sky/itv national papers, where only one side of the argument is aired.
And what of Ferguson's modelling, already discredited for vastly over estimating figures during swine flu. Not a fan of his but Elon Musk called him an "utter tool" and accused him of "absurdly fake science". He obviously didn't believe his own warnings did he?
I'd rather trust the scientists and clinicians whose salaries don't depend on funding from organisations and people with vested interests. | |
| YOU do not have the right to give someone else permission to tell me what I can and can't do. |
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| I follow. on 11:47 - Oct 9 with 1619 views | DorsetDale |
| I follow. on 11:15 - Oct 9 by rochdaleriddler |
The Daily Mail and facts are seldom related |
Ordinarily I'd agree with you but these aren't Daily Mail opinions, they're Public Health England stats. | |
| YOU do not have the right to give someone else permission to tell me what I can and can't do. |
| |
| I follow. on 12:20 - Oct 9 with 1589 views | DaleiLama |
| I follow. on 09:10 - Oct 9 by DorsetDale |
Again,thanks.
Obviously any admission/diagnosis is one too many. Unfortunately it's that time of year when infection rates do go up for these kind of problems.
The reason I asked for the link was to see if there is a graph age related which there is.
Beginning eldest first we have over 85's, then 65-84, then 18-64.
It's a near certainty that last group, if broken down further,would show the under 60's as being at very low risk.
Somewhat disingenuous wouldn't you say?
Let's not forget, however they're dressed up, the figures reported are tiny when compared to any previous "pandemic".
Swine flu killed more people yet we all went about our lives blissfully unaware without lockdown.
To put things into further perspective, over the last 15 weeks 10 times more people have died of flu and pneumonia than covid in
this country this year.
I won't post a link for fear of being accused of backing up my claims with evidence of the facts ;) |
"To put things into further perspective, over the last 15 weeks 10 times more people have died of flu and pneumonia than covid in this country this year."
Sweet baby Jesus. Calvin Andrew scored for Dale @ Wimbledon on 8/12/18. Taken over a season, that's a goal a game - why did we let him go? 46 goals a season for a striker? That would have been some return.
I don't know where the figures you quote above came from (was it that Daily Mail link ..... no further comment), but I think these are rather more germane to any discussion about Covid.
"Three times as many people have died from Covid-19 than from flu and pneumonia in England and Wales this year, according to official figures.
Between January and August 2020, there were 48,168 deaths due to Covid-19 compared to 13,600 from pneumonia. Only 394 were due to flu.
The Office for National Statistics analysis looked at the underlying cause of death.
Deaths from flu have been particularly low this year.
The highest number of deaths from flu and pneumonia occurred in January, during winter, when there is usually lots of flu around.
But deaths due to Covid-19 were higher between March and June - after the epidemic started and lockdown began".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54463511
As a fellow Daley, I wish you nothing but the best with all your potential health issues judging from your earlier post, but for your own good, please, seriously, reconsider your comment "Covid by and large, like the flu, effects the vulnerable, the rest of us are safe to carry on as normal." This has the potential to end very badly for you and a lot of others. | |
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| I follow. on 13:21 - Oct 9 with 1539 views | DorsetDale |
| I follow. on 12:20 - Oct 9 by DaleiLama |
"To put things into further perspective, over the last 15 weeks 10 times more people have died of flu and pneumonia than covid in this country this year."
Sweet baby Jesus. Calvin Andrew scored for Dale @ Wimbledon on 8/12/18. Taken over a season, that's a goal a game - why did we let him go? 46 goals a season for a striker? That would have been some return.
I don't know where the figures you quote above came from (was it that Daily Mail link ..... no further comment), but I think these are rather more germane to any discussion about Covid.
"Three times as many people have died from Covid-19 than from flu and pneumonia in England and Wales this year, according to official figures.
Between January and August 2020, there were 48,168 deaths due to Covid-19 compared to 13,600 from pneumonia. Only 394 were due to flu.
The Office for National Statistics analysis looked at the underlying cause of death.
Deaths from flu have been particularly low this year.
The highest number of deaths from flu and pneumonia occurred in January, during winter, when there is usually lots of flu around.
But deaths due to Covid-19 were higher between March and June - after the epidemic started and lockdown began".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54463511
As a fellow Daley, I wish you nothing but the best with all your potential health issues judging from your earlier post, but for your own good, please, seriously, reconsider your comment "Covid by and large, like the flu, effects the vulnerable, the rest of us are safe to carry on as normal." This has the potential to end very badly for you and a lot of others. |
Thanks for your concern. After all the prodding and poking etc.they couldn't find the cause of my ailment and eventually closed my case.
All is fine now however without being any the wiser!
We all know the vast majority of people died in the early months but the curve is well and truly flattened now.
My point still stands despite your blathering on about Calvin's lack of ability.
"deaths from flu have been particularly low this year"
I wonder why?
From your bbc link:
"some of those who died from covid-19 may have died of flu in a normal year, thereby reducing the flu death figures".
We can all pick quotes that suit our arguments.
You clearly get the majority of your thoughts on the subject from the bbc without any kind of critical analysis.
I can only assume you didn't bother to look at any of the links in my initial post.
The level of Cognitive Dissonance is astounding. | |
| YOU do not have the right to give someone else permission to tell me what I can and can't do. |
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| I follow. on 15:25 - Oct 9 with 1442 views | D_Alien |
| I follow. on 11:42 - Oct 9 by DorsetDale |
I'm not an epidemiologist - woefully or otherwise - so can only base my thoughts on those that are.
My original post links to the Barrington Declaration published by Professors Jay Bhattacharrya of Stanford University, Sunetra Gupta of Oxford University, and Martin Kulldorf of Harvard University.
All are renowned epidemiologists.
When new virus's appear there are always unknowns but are dealt with commonsenseicly to coin the new buzz word.
Never before has there been such disproportionate reaction to a virus as now. And yes, it's only my opinion.
You'll surely have noted though that this is my first foray into the debate on here. That's because before jumping in with both feet, I've spent months listening to and reading professionals (including those in the field speaking anonymously out of fear of losing jobs - anecdotal if you wish - they have no reason to lie though) not given a voice on the bbc/sky/itv national papers, where only one side of the argument is aired.
And what of Ferguson's modelling, already discredited for vastly over estimating figures during swine flu. Not a fan of his but Elon Musk called him an "utter tool" and accused him of "absurdly fake science". He obviously didn't believe his own warnings did he?
I'd rather trust the scientists and clinicians whose salaries don't depend on funding from organisations and people with vested interests. |
Your post from yesterday:
"Protect the NHS? What from?
When the virus was at it's peak in March/April I was an out patient at my local hospital having cause to visit different departments several times. Due to problems I was having at the time I had 3 biopsies, a CT scan, cameras up/down all orifices and even a visit to the women's mammogram clinic as well as blood tests for all manner of things. Oh, and a cancer screening. Most of these departments were operating on skeleton staff as people were too scared to go to hospital. The place was like a ghost town compared to normal activity.
Covid patients were non existent - I asked."
So, your first foray was introduced with a personal anecdote, which has clearly influenced your opinions and led you down a false trail of evidence. No more need be said | |
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| I follow. on 16:44 - Oct 9 with 1384 views | rochdaleriddler |
| I follow. on 12:20 - Oct 9 by DaleiLama |
"To put things into further perspective, over the last 15 weeks 10 times more people have died of flu and pneumonia than covid in this country this year."
Sweet baby Jesus. Calvin Andrew scored for Dale @ Wimbledon on 8/12/18. Taken over a season, that's a goal a game - why did we let him go? 46 goals a season for a striker? That would have been some return.
I don't know where the figures you quote above came from (was it that Daily Mail link ..... no further comment), but I think these are rather more germane to any discussion about Covid.
"Three times as many people have died from Covid-19 than from flu and pneumonia in England and Wales this year, according to official figures.
Between January and August 2020, there were 48,168 deaths due to Covid-19 compared to 13,600 from pneumonia. Only 394 were due to flu.
The Office for National Statistics analysis looked at the underlying cause of death.
Deaths from flu have been particularly low this year.
The highest number of deaths from flu and pneumonia occurred in January, during winter, when there is usually lots of flu around.
But deaths due to Covid-19 were higher between March and June - after the epidemic started and lockdown began".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54463511
As a fellow Daley, I wish you nothing but the best with all your potential health issues judging from your earlier post, but for your own good, please, seriously, reconsider your comment "Covid by and large, like the flu, effects the vulnerable, the rest of us are safe to carry on as normal." This has the potential to end very badly for you and a lot of others. |
Just read that one of the signatories to the Barrington declaration is one Dr Johnny Bananas, and several co-signees are not in fact doctors Hmmmm | |
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| I follow. on 17:30 - Oct 9 with 1329 views | D_Alien |
That doesn't surprise me in the slightest
And that's the problem with contact tracing. It could be made efficient or even "world beating" but if the person contacted pays lip service "Of course, i'll now self-isolate for 14 days" but has no intention of doing so, it's a waste of time
In countries where the system works, there's a much more rigid adherence to doing what you're told to do by authority, and perhaps much greater stigma attached to failing to do so. I'm afraid that much of the time, effort and money put into it in the UK will be wasted due to non-compliance. I also wonder if the government knows this and is quietly taking the hit for the poor performance whilst having not much intent on throwing more money at it | |
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| I follow. on 17:36 - Oct 9 with 1318 views | James1980 |
| I follow. on 17:30 - Oct 9 by D_Alien |
That doesn't surprise me in the slightest
And that's the problem with contact tracing. It could be made efficient or even "world beating" but if the person contacted pays lip service "Of course, i'll now self-isolate for 14 days" but has no intention of doing so, it's a waste of time
In countries where the system works, there's a much more rigid adherence to doing what you're told to do by authority, and perhaps much greater stigma attached to failing to do so. I'm afraid that much of the time, effort and money put into it in the UK will be wasted due to non-compliance. I also wonder if the government knows this and is quietly taking the hit for the poor performance whilst having not much intent on throwing more money at it |
One of my mates is an artisan earning over £300 a day sometimes. He refuses to fill in t&t forms and says if he self isolates who will be paying him his wages. | |
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| I follow. on 18:05 - Oct 9 with 1279 views | 442Dale |
| I follow. on 17:36 - Oct 9 by James1980 |
One of my mates is an artisan earning over £300 a day sometimes. He refuses to fill in t&t forms and says if he self isolates who will be paying him his wages. |
And it’s examples like that which means we are where we are. Which I’m sure he knows, even on the days he earns £300 a day.
On previous posts in the debate, there may well be opinions and arguments, but acknowledgement of the facts and the numbers is vital. Especially when throwaway comments are shown to be just that. |  |
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| I follow. on 18:19 - Oct 9 with 1244 views | rochdaleriddler |
| I follow. on 17:30 - Oct 9 by D_Alien |
That doesn't surprise me in the slightest
And that's the problem with contact tracing. It could be made efficient or even "world beating" but if the person contacted pays lip service "Of course, i'll now self-isolate for 14 days" but has no intention of doing so, it's a waste of time
In countries where the system works, there's a much more rigid adherence to doing what you're told to do by authority, and perhaps much greater stigma attached to failing to do so. I'm afraid that much of the time, effort and money put into it in the UK will be wasted due to non-compliance. I also wonder if the government knows this and is quietly taking the hit for the poor performance whilst having not much intent on throwing more money at it |
Not enough enforcement and yes lack of action on people like Cummings has led to where we are, also the unregulated social media that means every crackpot theory is allowed to be propagated , it’s only a cold, everyone under 60 is safe etc . Whilst not suggesting the govt is to blame for the pandemic, it could have done better, and it’s obsession with private over public has wasted time and money. I’m worried now about the next few months | |
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| I follow. on 18:23 - Oct 9 with 1241 views | James1980 |
| I follow. on 18:05 - Oct 9 by 442Dale |
And it’s examples like that which means we are where we are. Which I’m sure he knows, even on the days he earns £300 a day.
On previous posts in the debate, there may well be opinions and arguments, but acknowledgement of the facts and the numbers is vital. Especially when throwaway comments are shown to be just that. |
I can't be the only person who knows someone who won't fill in t&t forms and wouldn't self isolate if told to especially if not displaying any symptoms. | |
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