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Millwall fans. 17:35 - Dec 5 with 71465 views

Paddyhoops

They booed the players loudly as they took the knee.
What a classy bunch they are.

Millwall fans. on 22:24 - Dec 8 with 2520 views

Boston

I joined in the booing at Millwall actually, 70th minute.

Poll:

Thank God The Seaons Over.

Millwall fans. on 22:26 - Dec 8 with 2506 views

qpr85

Millwall fans. on 22:20 - Dec 8 by Watford_Ranger
A black guy shouldn’t have to wear a suit to go about his day without hassle.

Ah you see i never said that. I said if you dress like a gangster and hide your face you should be searched regardless of colour.

You made the point about the suit. Take pride in your appearance and you won't get stopped by the police. Walk, talk and act like a gangster you will he treated as such.

Millwall fans. on 22:33 - Dec 8 with 2462 views

Watford_Ranger

Millwall fans. on 22:26 - Dec 8 by qpr85
Ah you see i never said that. I said if you dress like a gangster and hide your face you should be searched regardless of colour. You made the point about the suit. Take pride in your appearance and you won't get stopped by the police. Walk, talk and act like a gangster you will he treated as such.

What if you walk and talk like Reggie Kray or is that the wrong sort of gangster?

Millwall fans. on 22:34 - Dec 8 with 2455 views

QPR_Jim

Millwall fans. on 22:19 - Dec 8 by qpr85
Yeah not a problem mate i apologies if that's not how you meant it. To answer your question its simple, someone that looks like they're going to work and not looking like the typical 2020 gangster look.

Fair do's.

Millwall fans. on 22:48 - Dec 8 with 2392 views

ngbqpr

Millwall fans. on 21:31 - Dec 8 by qpr85

I know I'm may be adding fuel to the fire that is this post but I'm trying to figure things out.

So what are you saying if you get called hurtful names that's not "real racism" not for a second am I condoning what Millwall did but thats all they did the other night. Thats all most so called "Fans" do when they shout racist things at players.

Its sh!t like this that makes it us vs them. This does not help anyone. Most people that get stopped do so because they hang around certain areas and drrss a certain way. People that are respectable fit a description but yes some are stopped just because of the colour of their skin but nowhere near the number that happens in America.
The quicker people in the UK find this out the better

Official figures widely reported recently show 9 x as many black people as white were stopped & searched in the period covered.

Poll:

Best hug a stranger / fall down five rows / 'limbs' late goals this season

Millwall fans. on 22:57 - Dec 8 with 2341 views

daveB

Millwall fans. on 19:10 - Dec 8 by TomS
A leaflet is being given to all fans attending tonight's match by Millwall FC. The second last sentence reads : "The eyes of the world are on this football club tonight - your club - and they want us to fail". Really?

Millwall have done a fantastic job in doing what their fans wanted and making sure their team does not take the knee and in doing so they have somehow got the same people on Sky who criticised them at the weekend saying well done. It's bizarre.

That letter basically said look we agree with you but everyone is having a go at us so lets play along.

Sky spent most of pre match, half time and post match talking about this and at no point did they ever seem to realise Millwall fans were clapping their team not taking the knee rather than QPR players doing it. Their fans don't give a shit what opposition players do they didn't want their own players to do it. Honestly became quite comical after a while as they tried to spin it as a positive.

Millwall fans. on 23:04 - Dec 8 with 2314 views

A40Bosh

Millwall fans. on 22:57 - Dec 8 by daveB

and then they spent the entire after match picking through the bones of it again and again and having Keith and Don sitting there spluttering trying to come up with another angle to keep the conversation going.

The FA seems to have washed their hands again tonight with another ambiguous statement saying it is up to the clubs now and the clubs will say it is up to individual players.

So what next in the post match player interviews on Sky going forward?
"Geoff, great goal for you in the game tonight, but we noticed that you didn't take the knee tonight at the whistle, when some of your team mates did - did you discuss this beforehand, has it lead to disharmony amongst some of the players - is it having a knock on effect on the performances?

Poll:

With no leg room, knees killing me, do I just go now or stay for the 2nd half o?

Millwall fans. on 23:33 - Dec 8 with 2260 views

SheffieldHoop

Millwall fans. on 22:06 - Dec 8 by QPR_Jim

"So what are you saying if you get called hurtful names that's not "real racism"" - No I didn't say that and I don't know why you've put real racism in quote marks as I didn't say that. I was asking the question because I was interested in his experiences. I didn't get a chance to reply as my lunch break ended and by the time I'd finished work the thread had moved a long a lot but I found his response quite interesting.

But while you mention it I'm curious as to what features make someone look respectable?

[Post edited 11 Feb 2021 12:09]

"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius

Millwall fans. on 23:36 - Dec 8 with 2248 views

daveB

Millwall fans. on 23:04 - Dec 8 by A40Bosh

Until the FA take the lead on this nothing is going to change, 6 months on now from the first game where players took the knee, absolutely nothing has been done

Millwall fans. on 23:51 - Dec 8 with 2204 views

Boston

Millwall fans. on 23:36 - Dec 8 by daveB
Until the FA take the lead on this nothing is going to change, 6 months on now from the first game where players took the knee, absolutely nothing has been done

What do you suggest should be done?

Poll:

Thank God The Seaons Over.

Millwall fans. on 00:06 - Dec 9 with 2188 views

daveB

Millwall fans. on 23:51 - Dec 8 by Boston
What do you suggest should be done?

for starters when they players get racially abused by fans stadium should be shut down for one game, banning individual fans has not worked. No more well you can't punish everyone stamp the shit out and set an example

When players racially abuse other players far stricter punishments, no dragging it out for 2 years then give a few games ban the case needs to be dealt with in days same as you would a red card appeal, take it seriously rather than brush it under the carpet.

Look to get younger people involved in decision making at the top of the game, don't just add a token black person in a made up job tap into the experience and knowledge of people who have not only played the game and worked in the game

try to find out where we see so few black coaches and managers and so few english coaches and managers of all races in the top 2 leagues. Encourage players and anyone really to take on coaching and off field roles, the FA has a vast array of money use it to find the next generation of coaches, administrators etc regardless of colour but give them opportunities and then work with clubs giving them job placements to get experience of coaching and working on the other side of football which you would hope might lead to them getting full time jobs. Show people they will get opportunities if they are good enough.

And when thats done scrap VAR

Millwall fans. on 00:58 - Dec 9 with 2114 views

Boston

Millwall fans. on 00:06 - Dec 9 by daveB

for starters when they players get racially abused by fans stadium should be shut down for one game, banning individual fans has not worked. No more well you can't punish everyone stamp the shit out and set an example

When players racially abuse other players far stricter punishments, no dragging it out for 2 years then give a few games ban the case needs to be dealt with in days same as you would a red card appeal, take it seriously rather than brush it under the carpet.

Look to get younger people involved in decision making at the top of the game, don't just add a token black person in a made up job tap into the experience and knowledge of people who have not only played the game and worked in the game

try to find out where we see so few black coaches and managers and so few english coaches and managers of all races in the top 2 leagues. Encourage players and anyone really to take on coaching and off field roles, the FA has a vast array of money use it to find the next generation of coaches, administrators etc regardless of colour but give them opportunities and then work with clubs giving them job placements to get experience of coaching and working on the other side of football which you would hope might lead to them getting full time jobs. Show people they will get opportunities if they are good enough.

And when thats done scrap VAR

How my many people of colour have you employed?

Poll:

Thank God The Seaons Over.

Millwall fans. on 03:04 - Dec 9 with 2054 views

SydneyRs

Millwall fans. on 22:57 - Dec 8 by daveB

But hang on, I thought their concerns were down to deeply held fears of Marxism, a political system they have studied extensively, and genuine concerns around the forces behind BLM and their extremely considered opinions on this?

Turns out they don't care about any of this at all unless its their own team involved? Booing opposition players isn't that big a stretch under normal circumstances, yet they are happy to let them make a gesture they totally and fundamentally disagree with and not a single boo? Odd. Very odd.

Could also be that none of the racists at the last game got tickets for this one of course.

Millwall fans. on 08:19 - Dec 9 with 1891 views

Paddyhoops

Millwall fans. on 18:09 - Dec 8 by Northernr

1 - In amongst some reprehensible bile, there's been some interesting points made and discussions had. As said in my preview, we're not getting out of this by entrenching deeper and deeper into our sides, so listening, discussing like this has value.

2 - As I said with the presidential election thread, it's not realistic to lock it is it? Something's going off tonight one way or the other, lock this thread before that and ten others spring up in its place.

3 - I'll delete abuse of people, I don't want to provide a platform for conspiracy theories, racism, bullying, abuse etc, but I'm not here to censor and delete discussion where I can help it, however profoundly depressing I may have found some of the stuff I've read over the past 15 pages.

As I said before. I started this thread and sometimes you think why the f**k did I do that, however let's be honest if I didn't someone else would have done so.
I agree with you Clive. It is fifteen pages of depressing reading but sadly its where we are.
We've been chasing our tale on this subject for years going round and round in circles with no end in site.
When I came here in the eighties. I was like a kid in a sweet shop. I got to go and see top flight football for 3 quid a pop and get pissed afterwards. Whats not to like.
The one fly in the ointment was racism . The blase, casual attitude to it was shocking but it was sadly accepted. Its gone underground over the years .The sanitisation of football by sky has seen to that to a certain extent.
Sadly the rise of social media( were all culpable) has put it front and center again. Various other factors like the bank crisis, brexit and this current pandemic have added to the problems. Its created factions in society with the right and left side of politics have both contributed to.
I can't see anything changing any time soon and that is profoundly depressing. We need leadership from decent political leaders however when you get government ministers like George Eustace making excuses for Millwall rather than condemning it out right is a disgrace.
Calling out the BLM as a political movement is all well and fine but taking of the knee in my opinion is about having respect for people who are constantly abused for nothing more than the colour of their skin and the BLM is just a side show.
Do I think we should let the thread die a death? Yes to a degree but we're having a debate here.
Lots I agree with, some I don't!
This thread will come to its natural conclusion.
The problem we're discussing sadly won't!

Millwall fans. on 08:24 - Dec 9 with 1868 views

Juzzie

Feels to me that the Millwall fans have won, they got what they wanted.

Millwall fans. on 08:30 - Dec 9 with 1846 views

Ned_Kennedys

Millwall fans. on 08:24 - Dec 9 by Juzzie
Feels to me that the Millwall fans have won, they got what they wanted.

If you mean the minority of racist Millwall fans then I’m sure they wouldn’t have wanted their players to link arms with our players behind an anti racism banner?

-1

Millwall fans. on 08:49 - Dec 9 with 1812 views

daveB

Millwall fans. on 00:58 - Dec 9 by Boston
How my many people of colour have you employed?

Since i got a role as manager and was able to recruit I've employed 5 people over the last 10 years. 1 is indian, 1 was a jewish lady, 2 were white and 1 was black.
When we do recruitment we don't know the race or sex of a person when we select them for interview, you can have a guess by the name but it's never been something we worry about.

Millwall fans. on 08:52 - Dec 9 with 1799 views

BrianMcCarthy

Millwall fans. on 08:24 - Dec 9 by Juzzie
Feels to me that the Millwall fans have won, they got what they wanted.

I agree.

But as of this morning I'm not worried about them, or indeed Sky.

I thought we behaved with great dignity and unity. I was and am very proud of my club, and can't wait for Saturday.

	"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Poll:	Player of the Year (so far)

Millwall fans. on 09:13 - Dec 9 with 1730 views

Dixie_CT

Millwall fans. on 08:52 - Dec 9 by BrianMcCarthy
I agree. But as of this morning I'm not worried about them, or indeed Sky. I thought we behaved with great dignity and unity. I was and am very proud of my club, and can't wait for Saturday.

100%. Let us worry about our own club and not Millwall or anyone else for that matter.

SKY are generating content, that is all and we keep buying into it.

As I said earlier in the thread, what positive impact has this or any of the campaigns/conversations had for black people? A few more black people on adverts! Wow!! Black people are still experiencing inequality and injustice in the UK and the US and until that changes, it is all fairly meaningless apart from the negative situations it is creating.

(No subject) (n/t) on 09:13 - Dec 9 with 1724 views

SheffieldHoop

Millwall fans. on 00:06 - Dec 9 by daveB

for starters when they players get racially abused by fans stadium should be shut down for one game, banning individual fans has not worked. No more well you can't punish everyone stamp the shit out and set an example

When players racially abuse other players far stricter punishments, no dragging it out for 2 years then give a few games ban the case needs to be dealt with in days same as you would a red card appeal, take it seriously rather than brush it under the carpet.

Look to get younger people involved in decision making at the top of the game, don't just add a token black person in a made up job tap into the experience and knowledge of people who have not only played the game and worked in the game

try to find out where we see so few black coaches and managers and so few english coaches and managers of all races in the top 2 leagues. Encourage players and anyone really to take on coaching and off field roles, the FA has a vast array of money use it to find the next generation of coaches, administrators etc regardless of colour but give them opportunities and then work with clubs giving them job placements to get experience of coaching and working on the other side of football which you would hope might lead to them getting full time jobs. Show people they will get opportunities if they are good enough.

And when thats done scrap VAR

for starters when they players get racially abused by fans stadium should be shut down for one game, banning individual fans has not worked. No more well you can't punish everyone stamp the shit out and set an example

What an example of this though? England in Bulgaria, seems fair enough. Sterling at Chelsea, or Derby and Millwall? Less clear cut. Say a plyer is abused on a Saturday, do I get a refund on my tickets for Tuesday? Football clubs need to know their revenue, and consumer rights are also important. What's to stop some Youtube oik going along, doing something racist, making a video (And loads of money) out of it, and also getting fans shut out of a vital match. The video ads would pay whatever fine they got for the incident within minutes.

When players racially abuse other players far stricter punishments, no dragging it out for 2 years then give a few games ban the case needs to be dealt with in days same as you would a red card appeal, take it seriously rather than brush it under the carpet.

Is 8 games for racism enough? Maybe not. But I think that's the standard punishment for being guilty of racism. Instances where the accusations has come from TV footage and not heard by the victim are understandably more complex. My problem with this is how it translates to grassroots level. Say a player makes an allegation, nobody has heard it. What do we do then?

Look to get younger people involved in decision making at the top of the game, don't just add a token black person in a made up job tap into the experience and knowledge of people who have not only played the game and worked in the game

Like who? Ashley Cole? Fifa Youtubers? What do you envisage them doing in this post that would improve the lives of black footballers that say, the PFA, can't already do?

try to find out where we see so few black coaches and managers and so few english coaches and managers of all races in the top 2 leagues. Encourage players and anyone really to take on coaching and off field roles, the FA has a vast array of money use it to find the next generation of coaches, administrators etc regardless of colour but give them opportunities and then work with clubs giving them job placements to get experience of coaching and working on the other side of football which you would hope might lead to them getting full time jobs. Show people they will get opportunities if they are good enough.

This is a fair question. I think it needs to be, why do fewer black footballers have ambitions of becoming a manager or coach, than their white colleagues. As far as I know, the mantality for black footballers is often to get in, make as much money as possible, buy your mum whatever she wants, then go and enjoy your life doing whatever you want to do. A lot of the time that doesn't include 7am starts at a training ground and spending weekends away from family.

And when thats done scrap VAR
Agree

[Post edited 9 Dec 2020 9:34]

"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius

-1

Millwall fans. on 09:36 - Dec 9 with 1674 views

GloryHunter

Millwall fans. on 22:10 - Dec 7 by BazzaInTheLoft

Ah, you mean the FA role?

If there is an issue of anti BAME racism in English football, why shouldn’t there be a BAME director with a remit over it?

I’m not talking about making a BAME person CEO or Chair for the sake of it, I’m talking about a specific directorship with oversight of the issue and power to instigate change. Proper power. Not an ambassadorship, or liaison role, a proper position with proper powers.

[Post edited 7 Dec 2020 22:12]

Just reading this now. There WAS a black FA director - Heather Rabbatts. She quit in 2017, over lack of progress regarding ethnic minority coaches.

Millwall fans. on 09:59 - Dec 9 with 1622 views

GloryHunter

Millwall fans. on 18:09 - Dec 8 by Northernr

Clive, you exhibit great wisdom for your tender years.

Millwall fans. on 10:16 - Dec 9 with 1587 views

GloryHunter

Would also like to belatedly add to the post re: "have a look at how many kids books have black characters or are about black characters".

When I was at primary school in Wealdstone there was a book in the library titled "The Story of Little Black Sambo". With charming illustrations of a wooly-haired rubber-lipped caricature black boy. How much more inclusive could you get than that?

(No subject) (n/t) on 10:24 - Dec 9 with 1564 views

daveB

(No subject) (n/t) on 09:13 - Dec 9 by SheffieldHoop

for starters when they players get racially abused by fans stadium should be shut down for one game, banning individual fans has not worked. No more well you can't punish everyone stamp the shit out and set an example

What an example of this though? England in Bulgaria, seems fair enough. Sterling at Chelsea, or Derby and Millwall? Less clear cut. Say a plyer is abused on a Saturday, do I get a refund on my tickets for Tuesday? Football clubs need to know their revenue, and consumer rights are also important. What's to stop some Youtube oik going along, doing something racist, making a video (And loads of money) out of it, and also getting fans shut out of a vital match. The video ads would pay whatever fine they got for the incident within minutes.

When players racially abuse other players far stricter punishments, no dragging it out for 2 years then give a few games ban the case needs to be dealt with in days same as you would a red card appeal, take it seriously rather than brush it under the carpet.

Is 8 games for racism enough? Maybe not. But I think that's the standard punishment for being guilty of racism. Instances where the accusations has come from TV footage and not heard by the victim are understandably more complex. My problem with this is how it translates to grassroots level. Say a player makes an allegation, nobody has heard it. What do we do then?

Look to get younger people involved in decision making at the top of the game, don't just add a token black person in a made up job tap into the experience and knowledge of people who have not only played the game and worked in the game

Like who? Ashley Cole? Fifa Youtubers? What do you envisage them doing in this post that would improve the lives of black footballers that say, the PFA, can't already do?

try to find out where we see so few black coaches and managers and so few english coaches and managers of all races in the top 2 leagues. Encourage players and anyone really to take on coaching and off field roles, the FA has a vast array of money use it to find the next generation of coaches, administrators etc regardless of colour but give them opportunities and then work with clubs giving them job placements to get experience of coaching and working on the other side of football which you would hope might lead to them getting full time jobs. Show people they will get opportunities if they are good enough.

This is a fair question. I think it needs to be, why do fewer black footballers have ambitions of becoming a manager or coach, than their white colleagues. As far as I know, the mantality for black footballers is often to get in, make as much money as possible, buy your mum whatever she wants, then go and enjoy your life doing whatever you want to do. A lot of the time that doesn't include 7am starts at a training ground and spending weekends away from family.

And when thats done scrap VAR
Agree

[Post edited 9 Dec 2020 9:34]

The idea for shutting the stadium would be to offer a consequence for actions and make people think. yes you'd get a refund if it happened at QPR and then next time we are all in maybe people would think twice before saying certain things. Fans would also do a lot more self policing. Football clubs need revenue but if thats more important than equality then scrap the whole thing and don't bother. Lets face it English clubs getting kicked out of Europe for several years did have a massive affect on stopping violence in stadiums despite it being grossly unfair to several clubs who could have been playing at the top level during that time (Us and Norwich spring to mind).

I get that some idiot could go in to grab attention but some idiot could go in now and let a firework off from his arse and get hits on youtube, doesn't happen too often though

As for younger people getting involved I don't have specific names as I don't know what Ashley Cole wants to do with his life or if he can offer help same with Fifa Youtubers but getting people into an organisation of different ages and races gives different perspectives and can help you get better

[Post edited 9 Dec 2020 10:26]

Millwall fans. on 10:26 - Dec 9 with 1557 views

Stanisgod

Millwall fans. on 22:48 - Dec 8 by ngbqpr
Official figures widely reported recently show 9 x as many black people as white were stopped & searched in the period covered.

But what areas? If an area has a predominantly ethnic population, as some areas now do surely that's just odds.

It's being so happy that keeps me going.

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