| Summer Transfer Rumours 16:26 - May 9 with 429476 views | derbyhoop |
As they seem to have started already, this should be an ongoing thread until August
Seny Dieng - Reims who are mid table in Ligue 1 reportedly interested
Conor Masterson - Gillingham, where he spent the 2nd half of the season; are confident of signing him, but Exeter are also interested |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Summer Transfer Rumours on 13:43 - Jun 11 with 6222 views | Andybrat |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 17:06 - Jun 10 by Welsh_Ranger |
I know that its totally unachievable from a wages point of view blah blah blah and you'll all laugh at me but Kent and Morelos are both free. |
I wonder at some point with the lack of money in the Championship that reality will at some point set in with good players without a club? If they can’t get what they and their agents want because no one can actually take the FFP risk do they then take option 2 which is they get what they can? We are nowhere near unique in our situation and I bet mortgages still have to be paid by these guys. Chelsea aren’t the only ones having to shed in the Prem so imagine the majority of those stay in the Prem ( Mount et al) there is going to be an oversupply which must have a knock on effect when squad numbers are limited. I think I am wishing for the best but there is some logic, I have no doubt our owners would splash the cash on players if they could, they are doing the next best thing though. Lots of us were not professional football players but we all know playing is better than sitting on a subs bench. Some may think I am naive but the market is forming in front of our eyes. |  | | |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 14:01 - Jun 11 with 6121 views | distortR |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 13:43 - Jun 11 by Andybrat |
I wonder at some point with the lack of money in the Championship that reality will at some point set in with good players without a club? If they can’t get what they and their agents want because no one can actually take the FFP risk do they then take option 2 which is they get what they can? We are nowhere near unique in our situation and I bet mortgages still have to be paid by these guys. Chelsea aren’t the only ones having to shed in the Prem so imagine the majority of those stay in the Prem ( Mount et al) there is going to be an oversupply which must have a knock on effect when squad numbers are limited. I think I am wishing for the best but there is some logic, I have no doubt our owners would splash the cash on players if they could, they are doing the next best thing though. Lots of us were not professional football players but we all know playing is better than sitting on a subs bench. Some may think I am naive but the market is forming in front of our eyes. |
You would hope the championship is reaching the point where the majority of clubs release this financial recklessness can't continue. I do wonder if that's part of the thinking behind the GA appointment - the owner's don't want to keep ploughing money in, promotion is distinctly distant, so get in a manager whose remit is to build a team that can compete and won't cost you £2m a month over what you take in. | | | |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 14:58 - Jun 11 with 5933 views | VancouverHoop |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 14:01 - Jun 11 by distortR |
You would hope the championship is reaching the point where the majority of clubs release this financial recklessness can't continue. I do wonder if that's part of the thinking behind the GA appointment - the owner's don't want to keep ploughing money in, promotion is distinctly distant, so get in a manager whose remit is to build a team that can compete and won't cost you £2m a month over what you take in. |
Yeah. Your first sentence is worth bearing in mind. It's not just us. To a greater or lesser extent most of the clubs in our division have a financial gun to their heads. | | | |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 17:42 - Jun 11 with 5609 views | davman |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 14:58 - Jun 11 by VancouverHoop |
Yeah. Your first sentence is worth bearing in mind. It's not just us. To a greater or lesser extent most of the clubs in our division have a financial gun to their heads. |
...but I simply do not see that; there are only a handful of clubs who are on the austerity drive.
Leicester, Saints and Lids will have the highest budget available to them in the history of this poxy competition. Even if by some strange miracle they don't get there this season, their budget will still dwarf everyone else's for a good 2-3 years as it will be supplemented by multi-million pound sales this season or next.
Watford and Norwich still enjoy parachute bonuses and in the case of Watford anyway are bolstering their budget by some big money sales; they are nowhere near the precipice.
Sunderland have got their house in order by being relegated and successfully wiped the slate clean coming back up. They will also get some income from Jack Clarke and maybe one or two other sales.
Bristol C have treaded water patiently for a few seasons (just like we should have done) and will now start getting a boost from their January sales and the ones in this window. Cov may struggle without Gyokeres and Hamar, but that's a pretty sizable warchest coming their way for another push.
Millwall seem to have found a way of living within their means and look better for selling players last season - they have money to spend this window.
Which leaves:
WBA - yes, they potentially buck my trend here - reportedly they have taken out big loans and are going to find this season "challenging" although I'll believe that when I see it.
Rotherham - won't be tempted by a similar gamble that our idiot owners did, so they will safely stay within their means.
Swansea - surely, they will need to tighten their belts?
Blackburn - letting Brereton's contract run down surely was not a wise move, so maybe they might start to fall away?
Preston - been punching for a few years now, but still looked pretty good at our place last season (but then again, compared to us, who didn't?). Maybe they might be feeling the pinch?
Hull seemed to spend a lot last year and failed; can they do that again?
Brum and Huddersfield appeared to be in trouble last season, but have new owners and in Huddersfield's case have a miracle worker in charge for yet another "last season".
Cardiff may be struggling.
The three promoted clubs come up with a completely clean slate FFP wise and I can see Ipswich and Plymouth doing quite well this season. Wednesday will also have some clout.
So, no, not that many have the same gun at their heads that we do... |  |
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| Summer Transfer Rumours on 17:56 - Jun 11 with 5544 views | Gloucs_R |
Aren't Birmingham due to pick up 10 or 15 million from the sale of Bellingham? |  |
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| Summer Transfer Rumours on 17:56 - Jun 11 with 5542 views | terryb |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 17:42 - Jun 11 by davman |
...but I simply do not see that; there are only a handful of clubs who are on the austerity drive.
Leicester, Saints and Lids will have the highest budget available to them in the history of this poxy competition. Even if by some strange miracle they don't get there this season, their budget will still dwarf everyone else's for a good 2-3 years as it will be supplemented by multi-million pound sales this season or next.
Watford and Norwich still enjoy parachute bonuses and in the case of Watford anyway are bolstering their budget by some big money sales; they are nowhere near the precipice.
Sunderland have got their house in order by being relegated and successfully wiped the slate clean coming back up. They will also get some income from Jack Clarke and maybe one or two other sales.
Bristol C have treaded water patiently for a few seasons (just like we should have done) and will now start getting a boost from their January sales and the ones in this window. Cov may struggle without Gyokeres and Hamar, but that's a pretty sizable warchest coming their way for another push.
Millwall seem to have found a way of living within their means and look better for selling players last season - they have money to spend this window.
Which leaves:
WBA - yes, they potentially buck my trend here - reportedly they have taken out big loans and are going to find this season "challenging" although I'll believe that when I see it.
Rotherham - won't be tempted by a similar gamble that our idiot owners did, so they will safely stay within their means.
Swansea - surely, they will need to tighten their belts?
Blackburn - letting Brereton's contract run down surely was not a wise move, so maybe they might start to fall away?
Preston - been punching for a few years now, but still looked pretty good at our place last season (but then again, compared to us, who didn't?). Maybe they might be feeling the pinch?
Hull seemed to spend a lot last year and failed; can they do that again?
Brum and Huddersfield appeared to be in trouble last season, but have new owners and in Huddersfield's case have a miracle worker in charge for yet another "last season".
Cardiff may be struggling.
The three promoted clubs come up with a completely clean slate FFP wise and I can see Ipswich and Plymouth doing quite well this season. Wednesday will also have some clout.
So, no, not that many have the same gun at their heads that we do... |
The three promoted clubs don't come up with a clean slate.
The previous three seasons for Plymouth & Ipswich (and the last two seasons for Wednesday) accounts are converted to allow for what is allowable in the Championship.
It may be that they won't have problems, but that is far from certain. | | | |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 19:34 - Jun 11 with 5339 views | QPR_John |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 17:56 - Jun 11 by terryb |
The three promoted clubs don't come up with a clean slate.
The previous three seasons for Plymouth & Ipswich (and the last two seasons for Wednesday) accounts are converted to allow for what is allowable in the Championship.
It may be that they won't have problems, but that is far from certain. |
How can you operate under one set of financial restraints and then have new rules retrospectively imposed when promoted. | | | |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 20:21 - Jun 11 with 5188 views | colinallcars |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 17:56 - Jun 11 by terryb |
The three promoted clubs don't come up with a clean slate.
The previous three seasons for Plymouth & Ipswich (and the last two seasons for Wednesday) accounts are converted to allow for what is allowable in the Championship.
It may be that they won't have problems, but that is far from certain. |
I was unaware of this situation. Any idea how they adjust the figures ? |  | | |
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| Summer Transfer Rumours on 20:35 - Jun 11 with 5135 views | davman |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 17:56 - Jun 11 by terryb |
The three promoted clubs don't come up with a clean slate.
The previous three seasons for Plymouth & Ipswich (and the last two seasons for Wednesday) accounts are converted to allow for what is allowable in the Championship.
It may be that they won't have problems, but that is far from certain. |
Is that right? Thought that the rules in L1 were VERY different from the Championship.
Either way, the three of them are in there crest of a wave and we don't want to play any of them in the first month or two of the season... | |
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| Summer Transfer Rumours on 20:54 - Jun 11 with 5050 views | VancouverHoop |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 17:42 - Jun 11 by davman |
...but I simply do not see that; there are only a handful of clubs who are on the austerity drive.
Leicester, Saints and Lids will have the highest budget available to them in the history of this poxy competition. Even if by some strange miracle they don't get there this season, their budget will still dwarf everyone else's for a good 2-3 years as it will be supplemented by multi-million pound sales this season or next.
Watford and Norwich still enjoy parachute bonuses and in the case of Watford anyway are bolstering their budget by some big money sales; they are nowhere near the precipice.
Sunderland have got their house in order by being relegated and successfully wiped the slate clean coming back up. They will also get some income from Jack Clarke and maybe one or two other sales.
Bristol C have treaded water patiently for a few seasons (just like we should have done) and will now start getting a boost from their January sales and the ones in this window. Cov may struggle without Gyokeres and Hamar, but that's a pretty sizable warchest coming their way for another push.
Millwall seem to have found a way of living within their means and look better for selling players last season - they have money to spend this window.
Which leaves:
WBA - yes, they potentially buck my trend here - reportedly they have taken out big loans and are going to find this season "challenging" although I'll believe that when I see it.
Rotherham - won't be tempted by a similar gamble that our idiot owners did, so they will safely stay within their means.
Swansea - surely, they will need to tighten their belts?
Blackburn - letting Brereton's contract run down surely was not a wise move, so maybe they might start to fall away?
Preston - been punching for a few years now, but still looked pretty good at our place last season (but then again, compared to us, who didn't?). Maybe they might be feeling the pinch?
Hull seemed to spend a lot last year and failed; can they do that again?
Brum and Huddersfield appeared to be in trouble last season, but have new owners and in Huddersfield's case have a miracle worker in charge for yet another "last season".
Cardiff may be struggling.
The three promoted clubs come up with a completely clean slate FFP wise and I can see Ipswich and Plymouth doing quite well this season. Wednesday will also have some clout.
So, no, not that many have the same gun at their heads that we do... |
I don't dispute much of what you say. However, parachute payments aside, and certainly Sunderland have the type of support that should keep them out of financial trouble, and Watford's 'unique' ownership structure is a bonus, but most other clubs you list are always trying to steal from Peter to pay Paul. A few bad transfers, long time injuries, or stupid management moves potentially make the difference between survival and contention in this division. Even the clubs coming down have a limited window before they have some difficult decisions to make, just ask Stoke or West Brom.
My point is that, it's possible to tick along in the other three divisions for years without going either up or down but it's not so easy to do that in the Championship. We've managed for fair length of time, but last season showed us how dramatic and drastic it can be when the wheels really start to wobble. | | | |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 21:06 - Jun 11 with 5006 views | Andybrat |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 20:54 - Jun 11 by VancouverHoop |
I don't dispute much of what you say. However, parachute payments aside, and certainly Sunderland have the type of support that should keep them out of financial trouble, and Watford's 'unique' ownership structure is a bonus, but most other clubs you list are always trying to steal from Peter to pay Paul. A few bad transfers, long time injuries, or stupid management moves potentially make the difference between survival and contention in this division. Even the clubs coming down have a limited window before they have some difficult decisions to make, just ask Stoke or West Brom.
My point is that, it's possible to tick along in the other three divisions for years without going either up or down but it's not so easy to do that in the Championship. We've managed for fair length of time, but last season showed us how dramatic and drastic it can be when the wheels really start to wobble. |
Agree and the list of clubs in our position is getting bigger, which might ( hopefully) mean that a realisation of some sort of sense might hit agents etc between the eyes. Just my gut feel but this could be the season where the number of championship quality players ( including those who didn’t quite make it above us and those better options in League 1) outnumber the job vacancies. If by any chance that is the case it has to be good for all the clubs without parachute payments. Maybe I am just tugging at hopeful straws, though if this is the case the quality of the recruitment team needs to be spot on…… Mind you we will never know until we know. | | | |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 21:16 - Jun 11 with 4952 views | MedwayR |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 20:35 - Jun 11 by davman |
Is that right? Thought that the rules in L1 were VERY different from the Championship.
Either way, the three of them are in there crest of a wave and we don't want to play any of them in the first month or two of the season... |
The L1 rules are very different. But my understanding is the same as terryb, once you get promoted into the Championship your accounts are treated as though you had been in the Championship for the last 3 years and have to meet the Championship's FFP rules. [Post edited 11 Jun 2023 21:17]
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| Summer Transfer Rumours on 21:40 - Jun 11 with 4866 views | QPR_John |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 21:16 - Jun 11 by MedwayR |
The L1 rules are very different. But my understanding is the same as terryb, once you get promoted into the Championship your accounts are treated as though you had been in the Championship for the last 3 years and have to meet the Championship's FFP rules. [Post edited 11 Jun 2023 21:17]
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What you are saying is that L1 clubs have to adopt championship financial rules in case they get promoted. See how ridiculous it reads. Cannot believe even the FL could envisage such a state. Having different rules for divisions connected by promotion and relegation is a joke but to enforce those rules on clubs when they were playing under a different set the season before would be palpably unfair. Why would clubs accept it, it would be laughed out of court. [Post edited 11 Jun 2023 21:59]
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| Summer Transfer Rumours on 23:07 - Jun 11 with 4664 views | kensalriser |
Those are the rules of the competition. Don't like it, play in another competition. Don't you think if it could successfully be challenged in court it would have been by now? |  |
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| Summer Transfer Rumours on 00:39 - Jun 12 with 4530 views | hubble |
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| Summer Transfer Rumours on 08:05 - Jun 12 with 4168 views | RBlock |
I bet Ainsworth would be able to get a tune out of him. Probably well trained in defence. |  | | |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 08:29 - Jun 12 with 4103 views | connell10 |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 00:39 - Jun 12 by hubble |
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Is that little Bernie E ? |  |
| AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!! | | Poll: | best number 10 ever? |
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| Summer Transfer Rumours on 08:49 - Jun 12 with 4052 views | Blue_Castello |
The clocks ticking I think it's the 14th when the window opens and the players are back for training in about 10 days time, we can only hope plenty of action going on behind the scenes so that some deals can be done quickly, whoever the players are they need some time to integrate into the squad..... | | | |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 09:01 - Jun 12 with 3975 views | Monkey_Roots |
This is the week, some changes must be afoot… the season is now officially done. |  | | |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 09:12 - Jun 12 with 3924 views | daveB |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 08:49 - Jun 12 by Blue_Castello |
The clocks ticking I think it's the 14th when the window opens and the players are back for training in about 10 days time, we can only hope plenty of action going on behind the scenes so that some deals can be done quickly, whoever the players are they need some time to integrate into the squad..... |
It's the same every summer, we'll sign loads of players, we always do, the key is are they any good rather than when they walk through the door |  | | |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 09:58 - Jun 12 with 3712 views | BklynRanger |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 08:29 - Jun 12 by connell10 |
Is that little Bernie E ? |
I can't stop laughing at it whoever it is |  | | |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 10:02 - Jun 12 with 3679 views | QPR_John |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 23:07 - Jun 11 by kensalriser |
Those are the rules of the competition. Don't like it, play in another competition. Don't you think if it could successfully be challenged in court it would have been by now? |
There is not another competition. They are seemingly the rules but I'm surprised you accept then without question. Courts decide on legality not fairness so I can only assume under British law it is legal to punish retrospectively under a different set of rules than those in place at the time the infringement took place. It would require all clubs to challenge them and that will never happen while some see FFP as a benefit. [Post edited 12 Jun 2023 10:15]
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| Summer Transfer Rumours on 10:14 - Jun 12 with 3587 views | terryb |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 10:02 - Jun 12 by QPR_John |
There is not another competition. They are seemingly the rules but I'm surprised you accept then without question. Courts decide on legality not fairness so I can only assume under British law it is legal to punish retrospectively under a different set of rules than those in place at the time the infringement took place. It would require all clubs to challenge them and that will never happen while some see FFP as a benefit. [Post edited 12 Jun 2023 10:15]
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Of course laws take precedence, but the EFL is a membership body where ALL clubs have to abide by the rules that have been approved by the clubs at an AGM or EGM.
There are other competitions available, The National League, Southern League, Isthmian League etc, not that any EFL clubs would wish to join them! That was the option facing Rangers when we were relegated from The Premier. Accept the rules & the penalty for failing FFP or apply to The Conference (as it then was) for membership. Whether this was categorically stated is another matter.
Why do clubs vote for the rules? Probably because to do so is to start a war with the board/management committee that you will likely lose. It is very rare that at any AGM, especially football clubs/leagues, anyone goes against the wishes of the people sat at the top table. | | | |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 10:24 - Jun 12 with 3531 views | toboboly |
I think Leicester (and possibly the other two) have already mortgaged on the parachute payments/PL money so they may not be as flush as expected. Will probably depend in who they can sell and who they have to sell.
Brum and Leeds being sold could change everything however. |  |
| Sexy Asian dwarves wanted. |
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| Summer Transfer Rumours on 10:25 - Jun 12 with 3523 views | QPR_John |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 10:14 - Jun 12 by terryb |
Of course laws take precedence, but the EFL is a membership body where ALL clubs have to abide by the rules that have been approved by the clubs at an AGM or EGM.
There are other competitions available, The National League, Southern League, Isthmian League etc, not that any EFL clubs would wish to join them! That was the option facing Rangers when we were relegated from The Premier. Accept the rules & the penalty for failing FFP or apply to The Conference (as it then was) for membership. Whether this was categorically stated is another matter.
Why do clubs vote for the rules? Probably because to do so is to start a war with the board/management committee that you will likely lose. It is very rare that at any AGM, especially football clubs/leagues, anyone goes against the wishes of the people sat at the top table. |
"but the EFL is a membership body where ALL clubs have to abide by the rules that have been approved by the clubs at an AGM or EGM."
Not if those rules are contrary to the law. FFP has never been challenged in the courts for many obvious reasons. Lets hope Manchester City with their financial clout can drive a coach and horses through it. Your last paragraph sums up nicely why FFP has not been challenged.
"There are other competitions available, The National League, Southern League, Isthmian League etc, not that any EFL clubs would wish to join them!"
You answer my point re there is no other competition. No club would expel themselves from the top 4 divisions. [Post edited 12 Jun 2023 10:26]
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