| Sign it... on 10:52 - Mar 22 with 2343 views | rochdale_ranger |
| Sign it... on 10:34 - Mar 22 by SandyDrum |
Old enough to know not to give out personal information to strangers on Internet forums. |
Your the clown with the drum who shit it from the programme seller then subsequently bitched about it on here for six months solid. |  | |  |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 10:59 - Mar 22 with 2330 views | rochdale_ranger |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 10:37 - Mar 22 by Ancoats_Blue |
Now you’re confusing me. A critique of the supposed “divide and conquer” motives of the referendum yet you also think it’s a great thing the country is so divided. One can only assume that from your antipodean outpost you’re experiencing some sort of Schadenfreude in watching the in fighting in the UK. Odd.
To keep on the German philosophical track you started I believe it was Schopenhauer who said “to savour schadenfreude is diabolic”. [Post edited 22 Mar 2019 10:42]
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Is the country that divided? Sure you get a lot of uncivil behaviour on social media and Internet forums but that’s par for the course it’s such a depersonalised way of communicating and exchanging ideas. And then you have got your activists on both sides that stand outside Parliament shouting and bawling at each other but the both sides there are batshit crazy.
I can see the argument for staying in the EU and leaving the Eu. I know plenty of leave voters and plenty of remain voters. The way some people are going on you would think we are boiling to the point of civil war. | | | |
| Sign it... on 10:59 - Mar 22 with 2328 views | HK_Dale |
| Sign it... on 10:03 - Mar 22 by kiwidale |
my contribution eloquant or not was a bit of fun nothing more. You are right we haven't left yet and I suspect we were never going to leave or more to the point be allowed to leave your assertions listed in your post are not facts neither you or I know what will happen should Brexit happen, your analogy to herbal remedies from an old woman opposed to a doctor is naff you have simply chosen your experts selectively, I came across this recently and without being a expert on the Lisbon agreement I am aware of its implications not only for European nations also America and the west, it had this to say on the subject
"OK so we’ve had the worst-case scenario for leaving the EU given to us by numerous outlets ranging from the Bank of England to the spoiled prepubescent acting momentum supporter and everyone in-between.
So, I am now going to tell you the worst-case scenario of remaining in the EU based on actual known factors and figures, sourced from the public records of the UK Government, the EU Parliament, The Bank of England, the CBI, Migration watch, The Stock exchanges around the world, the IMF, and the UN.
So those of you who think that this little rant is a tin foil hat moment by myself think again and go and fully research and cross reference what I am about to tell you and remember this is worst-case scenario that could happen unless I clearly point out where it will happen by either a date or other factor.
KNOWN OUTCOMES THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN AGREED AS TRUE BY ALL SIDES:
1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen the move is fully cancelled but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealth
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.; Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar ect
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020
PROBABLE WORST-CASE OUTCOMES
1: The UK will become nothing more than a vassal protectorate state
2: With the continuation of freedom of movement, the population of the UK will continue to grow at a rate higher than pre-referendum level ranging between 400,000 to 675,000 per annum.
2.1; Which will result in not just wage suppression but even wage depression.
2.2; More than 500,000 new homes to be built annually (We are currently only managing 125,000)
2.3; House prices and rents will skyrocket annually by 23%
2.4; Class sizes in schools would have to increase by 50% if not even double
2.5; The NHS will become solely an emergency service of care provider as they would no longer be able to cope with the numbers of people needing care other than those of emergency.
2.6; GP’s will become triage centres
2.7; Public transport will become permit holders use only
2.8; Only those that did a serious crime namely murder will be given a custodial sentence
2.9; The Court system becomes fully overrun to the point extreme cases only being heard and the rest being given an automatic fine
2.10; Emergency services collapsing for not being able to cope with the scale of things
2.11; Social care becoming solely private social care for those who can afford it.
2.12; Homelessness to increase by over 28% annually
2.13; Unemployment to increase annually by 37%
2.14; The Benefit system to collapse fully to the point of the return of soup kitchens and even workhouse existence
2.15; Crime to increase by over 59% annually
2.16; Shanty towns to become the norm standard of housing
3: Because the UK would no longer be able to make its own trade deals, nor control its tariffs or quotas, Food prices would increase by over 25% and the cost of living would go up by over 39%
4: Because the UK would lose its oil and gas rights it would also lose the revenue from taxation on them, resulting in a loss of over 600 billion per year in taxation revenue
5: Because the UK will become a member state its percentage share of the vote on any new laws, regulations, treaties and everything else is at current member numbers 3.57% of the vote. That’s right folks the UK say in the EU if it was to remain a member is 3.57% total
Everything I have put thus far is just the very extreme tip of the iceberg that is ready to sink the UK if we remain a member of the EU.
Everything is verifiable by the sources I have already outlined above and is something the EU propaganda machine as well as our very own government are not telling you.
Remainers keep on bleating about that the people didn’t know all of the facts
If that’s the case then why are they failing to tell the people the downside or remaining a member of the EU.
ASK YOURSELVES THAT FACT AND FIND OUT THE TRUE HARD FACTS FOR YOURSELF"
Richard Knocker...…
I have no idea who Richard Knocker is. |
I used the simple version of the expert, you're right, but the same could be said of any professions really - lawyers, accountants, mechanics, plumbers, etc.
Assertions of businesses moving are not assertions but actual plans: https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-honda-jobs/honda-to-shut-uk-car-plant-
Value of the pound has decreased by 9% from 29th May 2016 (1.44 vs USD) to this morning (1.31 vs USD). Source: yahoo Finance
Also your "facts" presented below, may not actually be facts in an objective sense: https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong/ |  | | |
| Sign it... on 11:00 - Mar 22 with 2327 views | SandyDrum |
| Sign it... on 10:52 - Mar 22 by rochdale_ranger |
Your the clown with the drum who shit it from the programme seller then subsequently bitched about it on here for six months solid. |
None of which is personal information or relevant to this discussion. |  |
| Wish I'd chosen a different username... |
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| Sign it... on 11:04 - Mar 22 with 2311 views | rochdale_ranger |
| Sign it... on 11:00 - Mar 22 by SandyDrum |
None of which is personal information or relevant to this discussion. |
It is when you are trying to come across as though you want to keep your identity to yourself. | | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 11:07 - Mar 22 with 2304 views | kiwidale |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 10:37 - Mar 22 by Ancoats_Blue |
Now you’re confusing me. A critique of the supposed “divide and conquer” motives of the referendum yet you also think it’s a great thing the country is so divided. One can only assume that from your antipodean outpost you’re experiencing some sort of Schadenfreude in watching the in fighting in the UK. Odd.
To keep on the German philosophical track you started I believe it was Schopenhauer who said “to savour schadenfreude is diabolic”. [Post edited 22 Mar 2019 10:42]
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Where did I say that the division over Brexit is a great thing and what makes you think I take delight in it? | |
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| Sign it... on 11:08 - Mar 22 with 2304 views | SandyDrum |
| Sign it... on 11:04 - Mar 22 by rochdale_ranger |
It is when you are trying to come across as though you want to keep your identity to yourself. |
Not really, you can find anybody's identity on the Internet these days it's not hard if you've got the right tools and a brain.
There are plenty of people on here to know who I am, I've met several of them in person, I've no problems with that, but I reserve the right to not give out my age to a stranger on the other side of the world during a political debate. | |
| Wish I'd chosen a different username... |
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| Sign it... on 11:12 - Mar 22 with 2289 views | kiwidale |
| Sign it... on 11:08 - Mar 22 by SandyDrum |
Not really, you can find anybody's identity on the Internet these days it's not hard if you've got the right tools and a brain.
There are plenty of people on here to know who I am, I've met several of them in person, I've no problems with that, but I reserve the right to not give out my age to a stranger on the other side of the world during a political debate. |
You make it sound like I'm grooming you do you wear a uniform when your banging your drum? | |
| This is not the time for bickering.
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| Sign it... on 11:26 - Mar 22 with 2265 views | kiwidale |
I have to respect your opinion HK and also your choice of experts. My opinion is but one of many and different to yours based more or less on the uncertainties of what Brexit or no Brexit will entail. It wont affect me as much as residents in the UK, Its hard not to think it was a smart move to make when I emigrated to NZ in 1978. The same could be said of you in HK. | |
| This is not the time for bickering.
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| Sign it... on 11:42 - Mar 22 with 2233 views | kiwidale |
| Sign it... on 10:52 - Mar 22 by rochdale_ranger |
Your the clown with the drum who shit it from the programme seller then subsequently bitched about it on here for six months solid. |
So Sandy is a yoof that stands in the corner of the pearl st banging a drum giving it large and flicking V's to visiting fans and he thinks he has the right to question my integrity and disrespect me. You are making it up Ranger. | |
| This is not the time for bickering.
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| Sign it... on 11:57 - Mar 22 with 2219 views | SandyDrum |
| Sign it... on 11:42 - Mar 22 by kiwidale |
So Sandy is a yoof that stands in the corner of the pearl st banging a drum giving it large and flicking V's to visiting fans and he thinks he has the right to question my integrity and disrespect me. You are making it up Ranger. |
Considering I have a season ticket for the Sandy Lane, the short answer is no. | |
| Wish I'd chosen a different username... |
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| Sign it... on 12:31 - Mar 22 with 2171 views | sweetcorn |
| Sign it... on 23:42 - Mar 21 by sweetcorn |
Anyone got any score predictions for saturday? |
No responses.
The clique strikes again.. |  |
| Leader of the little gang of immature cretins. |
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| Sign it... on 12:49 - Mar 22 with 2146 views | BigDaveMyCock |
There are many myths with regards to the EU that are continuously referred to by leavers. As far as I’m concerned the most important are:
(i) by being in the EU we can only trade within the EU and it renders us unable, or more difficult, to trade with non EU countries. Simply false, as the WTO argument has proved. The EU has numerous, mostly free trade, treaties with other nations/regions which we benefit from. The sheer size of the EU market means it is able to negotiate on far more preferable terms for its members than if these nations were negotiating separately. To use a topical example, the EU Japan Partnership Agreement which came into force in February will mean free trade between EU nations and Japan but Japan and post no deal UK will be subject to WTO tariffs (10% on cars being an example). This is the real story behind Honda and Nissan recently pulling production; and
(ii) the EU institutions are overly bureaucratic and hinder trade. Again, as has been proved in the no deal debate. Trade between EU states is pretty much effortless. Furthermore, what American, Indian and Chinese firms, to name but a few, love about the UK, and I know this first hand, is that if you set up here you have instant effortless access to the EU market. I would also add that in this whole 3 year sorry mess the EU, and all its 27 member states, have managed to agree on a Brexit deal and, within a matter of hours last night, agree on an extension. We, on the other hand, have been nothing but a disgrace.
We are not taking back control, we have been taken over by a bunch of divisive reactionary belligerent idiots who are simply not fit to deliver what they promise. Gleefully, and shamefully, supported by millions of people lapping up the nationalistic populism that it comes dressed up in. To the point where people are now willing to be poorer!!
Negotiating a deal with the EU has not been the easiest in human history (Liam Fox). We’ve patently not had our cake and eaten it (Boris Knob) and of course the Dover to Calais crossing is fooking important to the UK (Dominic Numb).
Will someone please put an end to this collective idiocy. | |
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| Sign it... on 13:40 - Mar 22 with 2079 views | rochdale_ranger |
| Sign it... on 12:49 - Mar 22 by BigDaveMyCock |
There are many myths with regards to the EU that are continuously referred to by leavers. As far as I’m concerned the most important are:
(i) by being in the EU we can only trade within the EU and it renders us unable, or more difficult, to trade with non EU countries. Simply false, as the WTO argument has proved. The EU has numerous, mostly free trade, treaties with other nations/regions which we benefit from. The sheer size of the EU market means it is able to negotiate on far more preferable terms for its members than if these nations were negotiating separately. To use a topical example, the EU Japan Partnership Agreement which came into force in February will mean free trade between EU nations and Japan but Japan and post no deal UK will be subject to WTO tariffs (10% on cars being an example). This is the real story behind Honda and Nissan recently pulling production; and
(ii) the EU institutions are overly bureaucratic and hinder trade. Again, as has been proved in the no deal debate. Trade between EU states is pretty much effortless. Furthermore, what American, Indian and Chinese firms, to name but a few, love about the UK, and I know this first hand, is that if you set up here you have instant effortless access to the EU market. I would also add that in this whole 3 year sorry mess the EU, and all its 27 member states, have managed to agree on a Brexit deal and, within a matter of hours last night, agree on an extension. We, on the other hand, have been nothing but a disgrace.
We are not taking back control, we have been taken over by a bunch of divisive reactionary belligerent idiots who are simply not fit to deliver what they promise. Gleefully, and shamefully, supported by millions of people lapping up the nationalistic populism that it comes dressed up in. To the point where people are now willing to be poorer!!
Negotiating a deal with the EU has not been the easiest in human history (Liam Fox). We’ve patently not had our cake and eaten it (Boris Knob) and of course the Dover to Calais crossing is fooking important to the UK (Dominic Numb).
Will someone please put an end to this collective idiocy. |
Will places like Rochdale or Oldham get worse for leaving the EU its not possible . If you were an unskilled labourer or the like you had literally nothing to lose for voting out. | | | |
| Sign it... on 13:44 - Mar 22 with 2072 views | 49thseason |
Car manufacturing will go the same way as most other light engineering jobs.. to china and Hong Kong in the wake of electric vehicles. There are only 20 moving parts in the power train of an electric vehicle and little skill required to fit them together. Honda, and Nissan have elderly models reaching the end of their useful cycles (Civic and the now-scrapped X trail) which are not suitable for electrification. We are just 5 years from the point at which all new car sales will be electric and built to last 2million miles. And 10 years from now most vehicles will be autonomous at which point we will have huge problems as 90% of all vehicle-related jobs will start to disappear, taxi drivers, repairers, delivery drivers, spares, haulage, petrol stations, car parking etc etc. will all have gone within 20 years.
You can try to blame brexit today, but if we are self-governing, nimble and smart we can make these changes work for us probably better than with the deadweight of the EU making our decisions and tying us down with red tape. And that's not to say that our politics will remain unaltered once this debacle is sorted out once and for all, because if brexit has shown us one thing it is the utter incompetence of the political classes. and the complete lack of leadership from any quarter. |  | | |
| Sign it... on 14:07 - Mar 22 with 2038 views | flyerdale |
| Sign it... on 13:44 - Mar 22 by 49thseason |
Car manufacturing will go the same way as most other light engineering jobs.. to china and Hong Kong in the wake of electric vehicles. There are only 20 moving parts in the power train of an electric vehicle and little skill required to fit them together. Honda, and Nissan have elderly models reaching the end of their useful cycles (Civic and the now-scrapped X trail) which are not suitable for electrification. We are just 5 years from the point at which all new car sales will be electric and built to last 2million miles. And 10 years from now most vehicles will be autonomous at which point we will have huge problems as 90% of all vehicle-related jobs will start to disappear, taxi drivers, repairers, delivery drivers, spares, haulage, petrol stations, car parking etc etc. will all have gone within 20 years.
You can try to blame brexit today, but if we are self-governing, nimble and smart we can make these changes work for us probably better than with the deadweight of the EU making our decisions and tying us down with red tape. And that's not to say that our politics will remain unaltered once this debacle is sorted out once and for all, because if brexit has shown us one thing it is the utter incompetence of the political classes. and the complete lack of leadership from any quarter. |
Honda have just brought out a new model of the civic in the far east . I drove one last month. Top class motor with an hybrid engine. Yes driverless vehicles are on there way but 20 years is a bit hopeful seeing as the prototypes keep bloody crashing. [Post edited 22 Mar 2019 14:22]
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| Sign it... on 14:19 - Mar 22 with 2022 views | D_Alien |
| Sign it... on 12:49 - Mar 22 by BigDaveMyCock |
There are many myths with regards to the EU that are continuously referred to by leavers. As far as I’m concerned the most important are:
(i) by being in the EU we can only trade within the EU and it renders us unable, or more difficult, to trade with non EU countries. Simply false, as the WTO argument has proved. The EU has numerous, mostly free trade, treaties with other nations/regions which we benefit from. The sheer size of the EU market means it is able to negotiate on far more preferable terms for its members than if these nations were negotiating separately. To use a topical example, the EU Japan Partnership Agreement which came into force in February will mean free trade between EU nations and Japan but Japan and post no deal UK will be subject to WTO tariffs (10% on cars being an example). This is the real story behind Honda and Nissan recently pulling production; and
(ii) the EU institutions are overly bureaucratic and hinder trade. Again, as has been proved in the no deal debate. Trade between EU states is pretty much effortless. Furthermore, what American, Indian and Chinese firms, to name but a few, love about the UK, and I know this first hand, is that if you set up here you have instant effortless access to the EU market. I would also add that in this whole 3 year sorry mess the EU, and all its 27 member states, have managed to agree on a Brexit deal and, within a matter of hours last night, agree on an extension. We, on the other hand, have been nothing but a disgrace.
We are not taking back control, we have been taken over by a bunch of divisive reactionary belligerent idiots who are simply not fit to deliver what they promise. Gleefully, and shamefully, supported by millions of people lapping up the nationalistic populism that it comes dressed up in. To the point where people are now willing to be poorer!!
Negotiating a deal with the EU has not been the easiest in human history (Liam Fox). We’ve patently not had our cake and eaten it (Boris Knob) and of course the Dover to Calais crossing is fooking important to the UK (Dominic Numb).
Will someone please put an end to this collective idiocy. |
Your points in favour of why it might be advantageous to remain in the EU aren't helped by wilful misinterpretation (following on from the media) of Dominic Raab's point about Dover, or the applying of a pejorative surname
Characterising millions of people who favour leaving the EU, for perfectly valid reasons, as nationalist populists isn't useful either, simply unnecessarily divisive. Yes, some might be, just as some Remain advocates are interested only in protecting their own narrow sphere of commerce which currently allows them to kowtow to unelected bureaucrats in the full knowledge that their interests will be protected as long as they don't argue back
That's not how many of us want to live our lives
[Post edited 22 Mar 2019 14:21]
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| Sign it... on 14:31 - Mar 22 with 1995 views | EllGazzell |
| Sign it... on 09:34 - Mar 22 by JimmyRustler |
Haha! You are right of course but this is strictly business (or should be at least) and so you would have thought that these EU officials would have acted with a certain amount of decorum to uphold their professional integrity if nothing else. All they've done is act like spoiled brats and put the verbal boot in at every available opportunity |
Unlike comments from Johnson, Farrage etc. They've been a beacon of restraint, reason and decorum haven't they! |  |
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| Sign it... on 14:51 - Mar 22 with 1966 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Sign it... on 14:19 - Mar 22 by D_Alien |
Your points in favour of why it might be advantageous to remain in the EU aren't helped by wilful misinterpretation (following on from the media) of Dominic Raab's point about Dover, or the applying of a pejorative surname
Characterising millions of people who favour leaving the EU, for perfectly valid reasons, as nationalist populists isn't useful either, simply unnecessarily divisive. Yes, some might be, just as some Remain advocates are interested only in protecting their own narrow sphere of commerce which currently allows them to kowtow to unelected bureaucrats in the full knowledge that their interests will be protected as long as they don't argue back
That's not how many of us want to live our lives
[Post edited 22 Mar 2019 14:21]
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They may not have been advantageous but I notice that you’ve not dealt with the salient points. Can you please expand on what you mean by ‘narrow sphere of commerce’? The vast majority of business and trade unions, from all sides of commerce, is pro remain. [Post edited 22 Mar 2019 15:02]
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| Sign it... on 14:55 - Mar 22 with 1963 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Sign it... on 13:44 - Mar 22 by 49thseason |
Car manufacturing will go the same way as most other light engineering jobs.. to china and Hong Kong in the wake of electric vehicles. There are only 20 moving parts in the power train of an electric vehicle and little skill required to fit them together. Honda, and Nissan have elderly models reaching the end of their useful cycles (Civic and the now-scrapped X trail) which are not suitable for electrification. We are just 5 years from the point at which all new car sales will be electric and built to last 2million miles. And 10 years from now most vehicles will be autonomous at which point we will have huge problems as 90% of all vehicle-related jobs will start to disappear, taxi drivers, repairers, delivery drivers, spares, haulage, petrol stations, car parking etc etc. will all have gone within 20 years.
You can try to blame brexit today, but if we are self-governing, nimble and smart we can make these changes work for us probably better than with the deadweight of the EU making our decisions and tying us down with red tape. And that's not to say that our politics will remain unaltered once this debacle is sorted out once and for all, because if brexit has shown us one thing it is the utter incompetence of the political classes. and the complete lack of leadership from any quarter. |
No, we’re not trying to blame Brexit. The CEO’s of these companies, including Jaguar Landrover, are saying IT IS Brexit. Or is that part of the big conspiracy theory as well? [Post edited 22 Mar 2019 15:21]
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| Sign it... on 15:00 - Mar 22 with 1954 views | D_Alien |
| Sign it... on 14:51 - Mar 22 by BigDaveMyCock |
They may not have been advantageous but I notice that you’ve not dealt with the salient points. Can you please expand on what you mean by ‘narrow sphere of commerce’? The vast majority of business and trade unions, from all sides of commerce, is pro remain. [Post edited 22 Mar 2019 15:02]
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Have you dealt with the salient points in my post?
Edit: and actually, i have - in the last line of my post
[Post edited 22 Mar 2019 15:01]
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| Sign it... on 15:03 - Mar 22 with 1940 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Sign it... on 15:00 - Mar 22 by D_Alien |
Have you dealt with the salient points in my post?
Edit: and actually, i have - in the last line of my post
[Post edited 22 Mar 2019 15:01]
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No you haven’t. | |
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| Sign it... on 15:27 - Mar 22 with 1908 views | D_Alien |
Let me be clear then. As i've already referred to current and future unknowability regarding economic conditions / terms of trade etc, i'm not going to repeat myself
If you can forecast accurately whether it'll be advantageous to be part of a European bloc in 10 or 20 years time, i'll bow to your superior skills in astrology
But the main issue is that, whilst people have to be able to earn a decent living and the country afford to continually modernise its infrastructure, services etc, and i'm confident that post-Brexit we'll not only continue to be able to do so but may even be able to improve on existing standards in the longer term - aren't you? Beyond that, there are simply more important things in life than ever-increasing GDP
I can admire the European experiment for having at least curtailed the impetus towards war being rival nations on the continental mainland, but I and 17.4 million others simply don't want to be part of ever-increasing union, and that's got nothing to do with nationalism but rather a desire to see decisions being made about our lives by elected representatives who we can choose to turf out of office should they fall short of expectations. With ever-increasing union, that possibility becomes ever more remote. if you're fine with that, good for you, but don't castigate others who aren't
I can certainly agree with you that our current crop of politicians on all sides of the HoC have failed us, but again, i've already referred to that | |
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| Sign it... on 15:33 - Mar 22 with 1880 views | EllGazzell |
| Sign it... on 15:27 - Mar 22 by D_Alien |
Let me be clear then. As i've already referred to current and future unknowability regarding economic conditions / terms of trade etc, i'm not going to repeat myself
If you can forecast accurately whether it'll be advantageous to be part of a European bloc in 10 or 20 years time, i'll bow to your superior skills in astrology
But the main issue is that, whilst people have to be able to earn a decent living and the country afford to continually modernise its infrastructure, services etc, and i'm confident that post-Brexit we'll not only continue to be able to do so but may even be able to improve on existing standards in the longer term - aren't you? Beyond that, there are simply more important things in life than ever-increasing GDP
I can admire the European experiment for having at least curtailed the impetus towards war being rival nations on the continental mainland, but I and 17.4 million others simply don't want to be part of ever-increasing union, and that's got nothing to do with nationalism but rather a desire to see decisions being made about our lives by elected representatives who we can choose to turf out of office should they fall short of expectations. With ever-increasing union, that possibility becomes ever more remote. if you're fine with that, good for you, but don't castigate others who aren't
I can certainly agree with you that our current crop of politicians on all sides of the HoC have failed us, but again, i've already referred to that |
"Continually modernise its infrastructure..."
Are you joking, I live in a county less than 30 years old which suffered communism for 40+ years and the infrastructure (apart from highways whose network coverage is insufficient) here is light years ahead of there. It is incomparable. | |
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| Sign it... on 15:36 - Mar 22 with 1874 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Sign it... on 13:40 - Mar 22 by rochdale_ranger |
Will places like Rochdale or Oldham get worse for leaving the EU its not possible . If you were an unskilled labourer or the like you had literally nothing to lose for voting out. |
If I was an unskilled labourer, who was not happy being an unskilled labourer, then the answer to my predicament would probably be to acquire some skills. I’m not sure how the EU are responsible for someone being unskilled? However, it’s a lot easier and certainly a lot less effort than acquiring some skills to blame the EU I suppose. [Post edited 22 Mar 2019 15:43]
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