| EFL PROPOSAL - THOUGHTS ? 20:48 - Jan 10 with 1421 views | TwelveAngryMen |
BST don't seem to be posting on here yet
What's the view on this ?
EFL PROPOSAL
It is well-documented that, based upon our own interpretation of the Owners and Directors Test (‘ODT’), the EFL should have banned Owen Oyston from owning Blackpool FC based upon his historic conviction for rape.
Our interpretation was of course shared by the EPL who confirmed that Owen failed their equivalent test back in 2010 and demanded that he sell his controlling interest in the club. Regrettably however they failed to follow up on this until it was too late — relegation loomed and the problem solved itself.
As ‘ illegitimately stripping ‘ a football club of its assets isn’t actionable under the ODT we have over the last 12 months or so repeatedly pressed the EFL to apply their own rules in an attempt to force Owen into a position where he had to sell Blackpool.
The EFL’s response both at the meeting with Shaun Harvey last March and thereafter has been to claim that the ODT is not to be applied retrospectively. We disagree and believe the EFL have misinterpreted their own rules — the ‘not to be retrospectively applied‘ only seems to relate to insolvency offences, not unspent convictions of 12 months or more and/or those who are registered offenders as defined by the rules.
All attempts to persuade the EFL to review their position have so far been unsuccessful. Similarly we have found it difficult to secure the support of the ‘ heavyweight ‘ national journalists to pursue the issue as they seem to be reluctant to take the EFL to task in view of the confusion over what the ODT actually says on this point.
Following a suggestion put forward on social media, we have looked into the option of commissioning an expert in sports law to provide a written opinion on the discrete point of the EFL’s position regarding the application of the ODT to the case of Owen and Blackpool FC.
We have recently approached an organisation called Sports Resolutions who have confirmed that they are willing to task one of their Panel Arbitrators to provide that opinion. We’ve specifically approach this organisation because of its pre-eminent position in the world of sport and more specifically football. The EFL themselves have used Sports Resolutions in the past and we think it would be difficult therefore for the EFL to summarily dismiss such expert opinion
We also believe the national journalists will be more likely to start asking their own questions of the EFL if we supply them with a definitive legal opinion on the EFL’s interpretation of the ODT.
Assuming we wanted to instruct a QC the cost is estimated at £2000 — a lot of money.
So at this stage we are looking to canvass opinions on what we should do.
Is this an initiative fans would like to see pursued and, if so, is this something that BST should take a lead on? If the answer to that is yes how should it be funded?
The funding options as we see them are:
1/ BST reserves — this would require prior authorisation from the membership in view of the cost. We’d need to put it to the vote and that could take time.
2/ Crowdfunding — fans could ‘chip in’ and when we’ve raised sufficient funds we’d instruct Sport Resolutions to proceed.
3/ One or more businesses / individuals might sponsor the initiative.
Feedback on the principle of whether BST should pursue this further and the appropriate funding option is requested to secretary@blackpoolsupporterstrust.com
In the interests of time, this matter is being aired on social media now but the above information will be included in BST’s January Newsletter to all members early next week.
Thank you
BST Committee |  |
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| EFL PROPOSAL - THOUGHTS ? on 20:49 - Jan 10 with 1418 views | TwelveAngryMen |
Should have said the original idea came off here - can't remember who to be honest Maybe Stu or Rott? | |
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| EFL PROPOSAL - THOUGHTS ? on 21:00 - Jan 10 with 1412 views | spell_chekker |
| EFL PROPOSAL - THOUGHTS ? on 20:49 - Jan 10 by TwelveAngryMen |
Should have said the original idea came off here - can't remember who to be honest Maybe Stu or Rott? |
I remember Rott posting about this.
I didn't think it was feasable at the time of his posts thinking that it would cost more than £2K.
It seems a reasonable price to me. |  |
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| EFL PROPOSAL - THOUGHTS ? on 21:02 - Jan 10 with 1411 views | BringBackTheRedRoom |
All for it. A combo of options of 2 and 3 for me.
Surely "and believe the EFL have misinterpreted their own rules " should read, "The EFL will apply the rules as, and when they feel like it". [Post edited 10 Jan 2019 21:02]
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| ‘Where there is harmony, may we bring discord. Where there is truth, may we bring error. Where there is faith, may we bring doubt. And where there is hope, may we bring despair’ |
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| EFL PROPOSAL - THOUGHTS ? on 21:11 - Jan 10 with 1398 views | spudgun |
| EFL PROPOSAL - THOUGHTS ? on 21:02 - Jan 10 by BringBackTheRedRoom |
All for it. A combo of options of 2 and 3 for me.
Surely "and believe the EFL have misinterpreted their own rules " should read, "The EFL will apply the rules as, and when they feel like it". [Post edited 10 Jan 2019 21:02]
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Yep, agree it doesn`t sound a lot of money, and if it holds the EFL`s feet to the fire in any way it will get universal approval, I would imagine.
However I would also imagine any sports governing body will have skin as thick as a rhino in riot gear though, and it will take a long time to chivvy them out of their burrow. |  | | |
| EFL PROPOSAL - THOUGHTS ? on 21:15 - Jan 10 with 1393 views | Lala |
| EFL PROPOSAL - THOUGHTS ? on 21:11 - Jan 10 by spudgun |
Yep, agree it doesn`t sound a lot of money, and if it holds the EFL`s feet to the fire in any way it will get universal approval, I would imagine.
However I would also imagine any sports governing body will have skin as thick as a rhino in riot gear though, and it will take a long time to chivvy them out of their burrow. |
I’m not a BST member so can’t comment on the use of BST funds.
2k is considerably cheaper than I’d have thought though.
Well done Rotts by the way  |  |
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| EFL PROPOSAL - THOUGHTS ? on 21:16 - Jan 10 with 1393 views | spell_chekker |
| EFL PROPOSAL - THOUGHTS ? on 21:11 - Jan 10 by spudgun |
Yep, agree it doesn`t sound a lot of money, and if it holds the EFL`s feet to the fire in any way it will get universal approval, I would imagine.
However I would also imagine any sports governing body will have skin as thick as a rhino in riot gear though, and it will take a long time to chivvy them out of their burrow. |
Rott's Thread.
BST: An idea by ROTTWEILERS 18 Dec 2018 15:23"Although the Committee's recommendations have been backed by successive Sports Ministers and progress has been promised by the FA, in practice very little has changed: the governance of football is cumbersome, and power lies with the clubs, especially in the Premier League. Real reform in relation to the ownership of
clubs, transfers of players, the influence of fans, the role of agents and investment in the grassroots-amongst other issues-has stalled".
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CDP-2017-0046/CDP-2017-0046.pdf
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| EFL PROPOSAL - THOUGHTS ? on 21:23 - Jan 10 with 1386 views | TwelveAngryMen |
| EFL PROPOSAL - THOUGHTS ? on 21:16 - Jan 10 by spell_chekker |
Rott's Thread.
BST: An idea by ROTTWEILERS 18 Dec 2018 15:23"Although the Committee's recommendations have been backed by successive Sports Ministers and progress has been promised by the FA, in practice very little has changed: the governance of football is cumbersome, and power lies with the clubs, especially in the Premier League. Real reform in relation to the ownership of
clubs, transfers of players, the influence of fans, the role of agents and investment in the grassroots-amongst other issues-has stalled".
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CDP-2017-0046/CDP-2017-0046.pdf
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That’s the one | |
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| EFL PROPOSAL - THOUGHTS ? on 21:28 - Jan 10 with 1384 views | okeh_for_some |
Without wanting to appear defeatist, I don’t believe independent expert advice or arbitration would have the slightest effect on the EFL. They are unlikely to cooperate with either process and certainly wouldn’t enter into binding arbritration. The EFL have consistently been resistant to any form of criticism. Even if they ultimately applied the rules retrospectimely any attempt to remove OO would probably be tied up in appeals and legal delay. I firmly believe if BST had continued to pursue constructive dialogue with OO aimed at securing change of ownership that left him feeling his nose wasn’t being rubbed into the ground, we would have secured change. NAPM was always going to divide fans and in a lot of ways this plays into OOs hand. I’ve spent the last 20 years involved in national level union negotiators and dispute arbitration. Any decent union negotiator would only get their members to apply the ultimate sanction {withdrawal of labour) as a last resort. If the employer can survive without labour, they then assume the upper hand - which without Belokon is what OO would have done. To my mind it would have been more effective to continue protest from within, cranking up the level bit by bit. Just my opinion.
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| EFL PROPOSAL - THOUGHTS ? on 16:35 - Jan 11 with 1350 views | basilrobbiereborn |
| EFL PROPOSAL - THOUGHTS ? on 21:28 - Jan 10 by okeh_for_some |
Without wanting to appear defeatist, I don’t believe independent expert advice or arbitration would have the slightest effect on the EFL. They are unlikely to cooperate with either process and certainly wouldn’t enter into binding arbritration. The EFL have consistently been resistant to any form of criticism. Even if they ultimately applied the rules retrospectimely any attempt to remove OO would probably be tied up in appeals and legal delay. I firmly believe if BST had continued to pursue constructive dialogue with OO aimed at securing change of ownership that left him feeling his nose wasn’t being rubbed into the ground, we would have secured change. NAPM was always going to divide fans and in a lot of ways this plays into OOs hand. I’ve spent the last 20 years involved in national level union negotiators and dispute arbitration. Any decent union negotiator would only get their members to apply the ultimate sanction {withdrawal of labour) as a last resort. If the employer can survive without labour, they then assume the upper hand - which without Belokon is what OO would have done. To my mind it would have been more effective to continue protest from within, cranking up the level bit by bit. Just my opinion.
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I don't think it would be a game changer in itself. But that is not what it is intended to be anyway.
It is an attempt to get independent, unbiased and thus authoritative advice on a matter which has been ducked by the footballing authorities for a very long time now. If the advice confirms BST thinking - fine. It is an extra string to the collective bow. If it goes the other way, then at least the issue can be considered a cul-de sac and the Trust can concentrate on other things.
Full marks for proactivity from me, and at £2k I think it value for money. All handled in a transparent manner which put the EFL to shame. | |
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| EFL PROPOSAL - THOUGHTS ? on 17:02 - Jan 11 with 1346 views | Imperial |
| EFL PROPOSAL - THOUGHTS ? on 16:35 - Jan 11 by basilrobbiereborn |
I don't think it would be a game changer in itself. But that is not what it is intended to be anyway.
It is an attempt to get independent, unbiased and thus authoritative advice on a matter which has been ducked by the footballing authorities for a very long time now. If the advice confirms BST thinking - fine. It is an extra string to the collective bow. If it goes the other way, then at least the issue can be considered a cul-de sac and the Trust can concentrate on other things.
Full marks for proactivity from me, and at £2k I think it value for money. All handled in a transparent manner which put the EFL to shame. |
It means the issue will continue to be a thorn in the side of the EFL Funding by method 2 or 3. | | | |
| EFL PROPOSAL - THOUGHTS ? on 17:56 - Jan 11 with 1331 views | TwelveAngryMen |
| EFL PROPOSAL - THOUGHTS ? on 21:28 - Jan 10 by okeh_for_some |
Without wanting to appear defeatist, I don’t believe independent expert advice or arbitration would have the slightest effect on the EFL. They are unlikely to cooperate with either process and certainly wouldn’t enter into binding arbritration. The EFL have consistently been resistant to any form of criticism. Even if they ultimately applied the rules retrospectimely any attempt to remove OO would probably be tied up in appeals and legal delay. I firmly believe if BST had continued to pursue constructive dialogue with OO aimed at securing change of ownership that left him feeling his nose wasn’t being rubbed into the ground, we would have secured change. NAPM was always going to divide fans and in a lot of ways this plays into OOs hand. I’ve spent the last 20 years involved in national level union negotiators and dispute arbitration. Any decent union negotiator would only get their members to apply the ultimate sanction {withdrawal of labour) as a last resort. If the employer can survive without labour, they then assume the upper hand - which without Belokon is what OO would have done. To my mind it would have been more effective to continue protest from within, cranking up the level bit by bit. Just my opinion.
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' I firmly believe if BST had continued to pursue constructive dialogue with OO aimed at securing change of ownership that left him feeling his nose wasn’t being rubbed into the ground, we would have secured change '
I can honestly say I have tried as have others
You might as well bark at the moon | |
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| EFL PROPOSAL - THOUGHTS ? on 19:42 - Jan 11 with 1311 views | okeh_for_some |
| EFL PROPOSAL - THOUGHTS ? on 17:56 - Jan 11 by TwelveAngryMen |
' I firmly believe if BST had continued to pursue constructive dialogue with OO aimed at securing change of ownership that left him feeling his nose wasn’t being rubbed into the ground, we would have secured change '
I can honestly say I have tried as have others
You might as well bark at the moon |
TAM: I guess dealing with OO is a whole different ball game. I've seen the most intransigent people move position with the right coerion or incentive, but they did have the benefit of sanity! | | | |
| EFL PROPOSAL - THOUGHTS ? on 07:34 - Jan 12 with 1298 views | TwelveAngryMen |
| EFL PROPOSAL - THOUGHTS ? on 19:42 - Jan 11 by okeh_for_some |
TAM: I guess dealing with OO is a whole different ball game. I've seen the most intransigent people move position with the right coerion or incentive, but they did have the benefit of sanity! |
In my spare time I’m an accredited mediator
Trust me I’ve tried all sorts of angles
It was hard enough getting him to drop the litigation v fans even when it was self-evidently on his own best interests
My take is Owen likes to be centre of attention - doesn’t matter if that’s for good or bad reasons He thrives on it
If he no longer owns BFC he will just be a sad old man
As such I’m of the view that he wants to preserve the status quo at any cost to himself, the club, the fans and his family | |
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| EFL PROPOSAL - THOUGHTS ? on 10:34 - Jan 12 with 1286 views | spudgun |
| EFL PROPOSAL - THOUGHTS ? on 07:34 - Jan 12 by TwelveAngryMen |
In my spare time I’m an accredited mediator
Trust me I’ve tried all sorts of angles
It was hard enough getting him to drop the litigation v fans even when it was self-evidently on his own best interests
My take is Owen likes to be centre of attention - doesn’t matter if that’s for good or bad reasons He thrives on it
If he no longer owns BFC he will just be a sad old man
As such I’m of the view that he wants to preserve the status quo at any cost to himself, the club, the fans and his family |
Yep, agree entirely with that TAM.
OO needs BFC as an identifier of his wealth and (ahem) status. He has played the feudal baron all his life- BFC is like a castle to him, under siege and to be defended at all cost.
Without it he would be just a suspiciously strange looking, very old man of little importance... | | | |
| EFL PROPOSAL - THOUGHTS ? on 12:15 - Jan 12 with 1280 views | spell_chekker |
| EFL PROPOSAL - THOUGHTS ? on 10:34 - Jan 12 by spudgun |
Yep, agree entirely with that TAM.
OO needs BFC as an identifier of his wealth and (ahem) status. He has played the feudal baron all his life- BFC is like a castle to him, under siege and to be defended at all cost.
Without it he would be just a suspiciously strange looking, very old man of little importance... |
Has a situation ever been more badly handled that this one by OO??
He's really made a mess of everything for everyone. | |
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