| The Budget 14:22 - Oct 30 with 5589 views | Southamptonfan |
An excellent refreshing budget I thought, by a very commanding, professional and credible chancellor. Triple lock kept (rightly so), pensioners protected, billions raised for our crumbling services so badly needed, no increase in fuel duty (right decison), and at last,.an end to criminals going in to my local shop, supermarkets and stealing up to £100 without consequence. A start on restoring law and order in this country. Taxes raised for multi billion pound companies to pay their fair share. And 50 per cent increase on those using private jets. Too right. If you can afford to travel at that expense, then give some back to the country (Sorry Rishi). |  |
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| The Budget on 16:12 - Oct 30 with 3080 views | Joiedevivre |
I don't believe it's wise to charge more tax on farmers. Post-brexit trade barriers have made us more reliant on locally sourced food and with profitability already so low, the increased taxation will most likely lead to a drop in produce in an industry we need to stay alive.
It's clearly not a very well thought out budget and will be interesting (to say the least) to see the results. I wouldn't describe it as a "refreshing budget". |  | | |
| The Budget on 16:51 - Oct 30 with 3003 views | PatfromPoole |
It's a disaster for business and relatively speaking, the cost of employing people on lesser pay has hugely increased due to:-
- the increase in the minimum wage
- the increase in Employers' NI, both from 13.8% to 15.0%, but more significantly, the reduction in the figure at which it kicks in from £9,100 per year down to £5,000.
All-in, it means that it will cost a business well over £1,000 per year more to employ somebody who is on minimum wage.
Businesses will simply cut back on recruitment and pay increases.
It's going to lead to recession by the back door, and hurt more of the Labour core vote. Though they probably won't notice it initially.
I don't mind admitting I voted for Labour, but this is abysmal politics. [Post edited 30 Oct 16:57]
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| The Budget on 17:21 - Oct 30 with 2939 views | saintmark1976 |
| The Budget on 16:51 - Oct 30 by PatfromPoole |
It's a disaster for business and relatively speaking, the cost of employing people on lesser pay has hugely increased due to:-
- the increase in the minimum wage
- the increase in Employers' NI, both from 13.8% to 15.0%, but more significantly, the reduction in the figure at which it kicks in from £9,100 per year down to £5,000.
All-in, it means that it will cost a business well over £1,000 per year more to employ somebody who is on minimum wage.
Businesses will simply cut back on recruitment and pay increases.
It's going to lead to recession by the back door, and hurt more of the Labour core vote. Though they probably won't notice it initially.
I don't mind admitting I voted for Labour, but this is abysmal politics. [Post edited 30 Oct 16:57]
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Pat, the minimum wage was long overdue when it was introduced by the Labour government elected in 1997. It’s introduction was vigorously opposed by the Tory Party suggesting it would result in an increase in unemployment, it didn’t and nor now will employers having to pay increases in N I.
Some employers have for years been able to obtain cheap workers by exploiting the tax credit system where effectively tax payers have subsided workers wages.
Now they are simply being asked to put more back into the system and it’s not before time in my opinion.
As for admitting that you voted Labour. Don’t make a worry of it, after all it’s not a sin requiring confession. [Post edited 30 Oct 20:43]
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| The Budget on 17:26 - Oct 30 with 2930 views | Number_58 |
After the bus fares went up to £3 the other day I was considering buying a private jet, but now I shall be thinking again. |  | | |
| The Budget on 17:32 - Oct 30 with 2919 views | Southamptonfan |
It's obvious that more money is needed for the services. We are all paying tax, to not get a proper service at the moment (I.e can't see a doctor for months, can't see a dentist, schools lacking in money, prisons in chaos, trains are useless etc). So more money is needed, so that we get a better service (hopefully).Tax had to go up. Whether they should have just put up income tax for all, than the way they are doing it is arguable, but the services need more money. | |
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| The Budget on 17:35 - Oct 30 with 2910 views | PatfromPoole |
| The Budget on 17:21 - Oct 30 by saintmark1976 |
Pat, the minimum wage was long overdue when it was introduced by the Labour government elected in 1997. It’s introduction was vigorously opposed by the Tory Party suggesting it would result in an increase in unemployment, it didn’t and nor now will employers having to pay increases in N I.
Some employers have for years been able to obtain cheap workers by exploiting the tax credit system where effectively tax payers have subsided workers wages.
Now they are simply being asked to put more back into the system and it’s not before time in my opinion.
As for admitting that you voted Labour. Don’t make a worry of it, after all it’s not a sin requiring confession. [Post edited 30 Oct 20:43]
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I have absolutely no issue with the minimum wage.
My issue is more that these measures will hurt the lowest-paid the most, as relative to their salary, there is a huge increase in the cost of employing them, mainly due to the changes in Employers’ NI.
It is going to have a huge impact on businesses in sectors like leisure and hospitality.
Enjoy going in pubs while you can. | |
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| The Budget on 17:53 - Oct 30 with 2872 views | Ron11 |
How much tax payers money are they spending on housing thousands of illegal immigrants who are still crossing the channel?
"We will smash the gangs"
Smash in the country's back door more like. | | | |
| The Budget on 18:04 - Oct 30 with 2851 views | Southamptonfan |
| The Budget on 17:53 - Oct 30 by Ron11 |
How much tax payers money are they spending on housing thousands of illegal immigrants who are still crossing the channel?
"We will smash the gangs"
Smash in the country's back door more like. |
We know they won't solve that issue because they can't. Exactly the same as the previous government. Under the Conservatives, who are supposed to be for controlling immigration, illegal immigration was the worst it has ever been in our history. So they are also not the answer, because again, they can't do anything about it. | |
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| The Budget on 18:19 - Oct 30 with 2816 views | Ron11 |
| The Budget on 18:04 - Oct 30 by Southamptonfan |
We know they won't solve that issue because they can't. Exactly the same as the previous government. Under the Conservatives, who are supposed to be for controlling immigration, illegal immigration was the worst it has ever been in our history. So they are also not the answer, because again, they can't do anything about it. |
Of course they can do something about it.
They're just not going to, until of course it's too late, and our infrastructure will be cracking under the pressure on social services, education, housing, hospitals and the very core of our existence.
Most people voted for Brexit not because they disliked Europe, Europeans or European business links, but because they wanted to be able to control who came into this country. This of course has not happened, despite Johnson's bullshit 'we got it done' and Sunak's Rwanda plan (which did show signs of something happening but Ireland did exactly what we're not doing here, and that's send them straight back).
And now this shower of shit are going to let it get even worse.
Politicians,they call themselves. They haven't got a clue. | | | |
| The Budget on 18:21 - Oct 30 with 2812 views | kingslandstand1 |
| The Budget on 18:04 - Oct 30 by Southamptonfan |
We know they won't solve that issue because they can't. Exactly the same as the previous government. Under the Conservatives, who are supposed to be for controlling immigration, illegal immigration was the worst it has ever been in our history. So they are also not the answer, because again, they can't do anything about it. |
The issue though Southamptonfan is that Starmer actually said as Ron has said, but never said how he was going to "smash the gangs". Did he ever have a plan?
But at least there's a penny off a pint!! |  | | |
| The Budget on 18:30 - Oct 30 with 2763 views | 1885_SFC |
| The Budget on 17:53 - Oct 30 by Ron11 |
How much tax payers money are they spending on housing thousands of illegal immigrants who are still crossing the channel?
"We will smash the gangs"
Smash in the country's back door more like. |
That'll be a mere £8m per day.
While Italy manages to send their illegal immigrants to Albania & Germany is considering using UK-funded, already built accommodation in Rwanda to process migrants, Kier Starmer reckons having a strong word and a stern telling off to the smuggling gangs will suffice. |  |
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| The Budget on 18:33 - Oct 30 with 2753 views | Buggalugs |
| The Budget on 17:21 - Oct 30 by saintmark1976 |
Pat, the minimum wage was long overdue when it was introduced by the Labour government elected in 1997. It’s introduction was vigorously opposed by the Tory Party suggesting it would result in an increase in unemployment, it didn’t and nor now will employers having to pay increases in N I.
Some employers have for years been able to obtain cheap workers by exploiting the tax credit system where effectively tax payers have subsided workers wages.
Now they are simply being asked to put more back into the system and it’s not before time in my opinion.
As for admitting that you voted Labour. Don’t make a worry of it, after all it’s not a sin requiring confession. [Post edited 30 Oct 20:43]
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You clearly don’t have a clue about the pressures small businesses are already under or what tax they’re getting rinsed for. |  |
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| The Budget on 18:48 - Oct 30 with 2720 views | Southamptonfan |
| The Budget on 18:19 - Oct 30 by Ron11 |
Of course they can do something about it.
They're just not going to, until of course it's too late, and our infrastructure will be cracking under the pressure on social services, education, housing, hospitals and the very core of our existence.
Most people voted for Brexit not because they disliked Europe, Europeans or European business links, but because they wanted to be able to control who came into this country. This of course has not happened, despite Johnson's bullshit 'we got it done' and Sunak's Rwanda plan (which did show signs of something happening but Ireland did exactly what we're not doing here, and that's send them straight back).
And now this shower of shit are going to let it get even worse.
Politicians,they call themselves. They haven't got a clue. |
They can't do anything unless we come out of the Human Rights act or whatever it's called. The law says that anyone at threat of torture or violence are entitled to protection by law and therefore can stay here. We can't send them back to a place of danger and the Rwanda thing never got started because the courts said it was unlawful. There is nothing we can do. The politicians know it, so just pretend and tell us something we might like to hear. | |
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| The Budget on 19:02 - Oct 30 with 2689 views | PatfromPoole |
| The Budget on 18:33 - Oct 30 by Buggalugs |
You clearly don’t have a clue about the pressures small businesses are already under or what tax they’re getting rinsed for. |
I have been doing some sums on the impact for the company I work for, and the numbers are scary in terms of the additional cost from today’s announcements. | |
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| The Budget on 20:36 - Oct 30 with 2575 views | Buggalugs |
| The Budget on 19:02 - Oct 30 by PatfromPoole |
I have been doing some sums on the impact for the company I work for, and the numbers are scary in terms of the additional cost from today’s announcements. |
Yep, but it’s not before time businesses pay more back into the system apparently  . Where’s the money going to come from? Wages; ie redundancies most likely. | |
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| The Budget on 20:47 - Oct 30 with 2548 views | Ifonly |
| The Budget on 17:32 - Oct 30 by Southamptonfan |
It's obvious that more money is needed for the services. We are all paying tax, to not get a proper service at the moment (I.e can't see a doctor for months, can't see a dentist, schools lacking in money, prisons in chaos, trains are useless etc). So more money is needed, so that we get a better service (hopefully).Tax had to go up. Whether they should have just put up income tax for all, than the way they are doing it is arguable, but the services need more money. |
"It's obvious that more money is needed for the services." Totally wrong.
What is obvious is that we need higher productivity in public services. While the private sector and the rest of the world has improved productivity, the UK's public services have had more and more money thrown at them for no gain in output. The problem is not the money that they have been given. The problem is the extremely inefficient performance. See these figures from the ONS:
That is the reason why the services they deliver are so bad.
Meanwhile, the tax take is now at the highest levels ever!! This simply can't be continued. It is killing the country. | | | |
| The Budget on 20:55 - Oct 30 with 2509 views | Southamptonfan |
| The Budget on 20:47 - Oct 30 by Ifonly |
"It's obvious that more money is needed for the services." Totally wrong.
What is obvious is that we need higher productivity in public services. While the private sector and the rest of the world has improved productivity, the UK's public services have had more and more money thrown at them for no gain in output. The problem is not the money that they have been given. The problem is the extremely inefficient performance. See these figures from the ONS:
That is the reason why the services they deliver are so bad.
Meanwhile, the tax take is now at the highest levels ever!! This simply can't be continued. It is killing the country. |
I disagree. The services could definitely be more efficient but they also need more money. Any nurse doctor or NHS worker will tell you that. | |
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| The Budget on 21:01 - Oct 30 with 2500 views | saintmark1976 |
| The Budget on 17:35 - Oct 30 by PatfromPoole |
I have absolutely no issue with the minimum wage.
My issue is more that these measures will hurt the lowest-paid the most, as relative to their salary, there is a huge increase in the cost of employing them, mainly due to the changes in Employers’ NI.
It is going to have a huge impact on businesses in sectors like leisure and hospitality.
Enjoy going in pubs while you can. |
Good to see we are on common ground in regard to the minimum wage Pat, given that your original post suggested it was part of your perceived problem concerning employers costs.
Let’s all wait and see if your suggestion that raising Employers N I will have the impact you suggest.
Frankly I couldn’t care if I never went in a pub again but that’s more to do with me never drinking alcohol rather than the effects or otherwise of today’s Budget. | |
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| The Budget on 21:10 - Oct 30 with 2486 views | PatfromPoole |
| The Budget on 21:01 - Oct 30 by saintmark1976 |
Good to see we are on common ground in regard to the minimum wage Pat, given that your original post suggested it was part of your perceived problem concerning employers costs.
Let’s all wait and see if your suggestion that raising Employers N I will have the impact you suggest.
Frankly I couldn’t care if I never went in a pub again but that’s more to do with me never drinking alcohol rather than the effects or otherwise of today’s Budget. |
It’s not just pubs.
There are a huge number of businesses in the leisure sector which come April 2025 are going to simply be uneconomic to continue trading.
Also sectors such as care homes and hotels. They will be savaged. | |
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| The Budget on 22:22 - Oct 30 with 2355 views | Chesham_Saint |
All I can tell you is that I’m in the process of setting up a business which could have been based in London. It is now almost certain that, as far as possible it will now be based overseas. Sad, but true. |  |
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| The Budget on 22:46 - Oct 30 with 2314 views | Southamptonfan |
There is definitely room for improvement with efficiency, but I know for a fact that on some days, there arn't enough ambulances for example. There just arn't enough vehicles and there arn't enough paramedics etc at peak times. Ambulance waiting times at peak times for example are unacceptable, for example an old lady left on the floor.all night, I have links for this. Surely she was left on the floor because they didnt have an ambulance avaliable? So wouldn't more money for more ambulances and more paramedics help? The view is that there just isn't enough staff and ambulances. How could they be more efficient if there just arn't enough?
What about prisons? We need more and it costs money to build them and staff them!! How could you be more efficient? 10 to a room? [Post edited 30 Oct 22:53]
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| The Budget on 22:59 - Oct 30 with 2266 views | PatfromPoole |
| The Budget on 22:46 - Oct 30 by Southamptonfan |
There is definitely room for improvement with efficiency, but I know for a fact that on some days, there arn't enough ambulances for example. There just arn't enough vehicles and there arn't enough paramedics etc at peak times. Ambulance waiting times at peak times for example are unacceptable, for example an old lady left on the floor.all night, I have links for this. Surely she was left on the floor because they didnt have an ambulance avaliable? So wouldn't more money for more ambulances and more paramedics help? The view is that there just isn't enough staff and ambulances. How could they be more efficient if there just arn't enough?
What about prisons? We need more and it costs money to build them and staff them!! How could you be more efficient? 10 to a room? [Post edited 30 Oct 22:53]
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There was talk of a low-cost solution for prisoners, in sending them to half-empty prisons in Estonia.
I thought this was an excellent idea, but apparently deemed unworkable by both the Tories and Labour.
Shame. | |
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| The Budget on 23:10 - Oct 30 with 2243 views | Southamptonfan |
| The Budget on 22:59 - Oct 30 by PatfromPoole |
There was talk of a low-cost solution for prisoners, in sending them to half-empty prisons in Estonia.
I thought this was an excellent idea, but apparently deemed unworkable by both the Tories and Labour.
Shame. |
Watching prisoners released early, cracking open bottles of champagne is just terrible. But that's the state we are in. More money is needed for more prisons, more staff, more police, more doctors and more dentists 😁 [Post edited 30 Oct 23:11]
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| The Budget on 00:07 - Oct 31 with 2168 views | Ifonly |
| The Budget on 22:46 - Oct 30 by Southamptonfan |
There is definitely room for improvement with efficiency, but I know for a fact that on some days, there arn't enough ambulances for example. There just arn't enough vehicles and there arn't enough paramedics etc at peak times. Ambulance waiting times at peak times for example are unacceptable, for example an old lady left on the floor.all night, I have links for this. Surely she was left on the floor because they didnt have an ambulance avaliable? So wouldn't more money for more ambulances and more paramedics help? The view is that there just isn't enough staff and ambulances. How could they be more efficient if there just arn't enough?
What about prisons? We need more and it costs money to build them and staff them!! How could you be more efficient? 10 to a room? [Post edited 30 Oct 22:53]
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Ambulances are one example of how the system isn't working. Spending more money on ambulances wouldn't help because there are plenty of ambulances.
There are plenty of ambulances but often there is a shortage of available ambulances. Why? It's because they are stacked up outside hospitals unable to discharge their patient to the hospital. And why can't they discharge their patient? It's because there are no spare beds in the hospital. And why are there no spare beds? It's because up to 1 in 3 beds are occupied by people who don't need to be in hospital
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/13/hospital-beds-england-occupied-p
It costs a lot of money to have someone in a hospital bed. It costs a lot less to have them in bed in a care home, or to provide care for them in their own home. Yet our system means all these people are kept in the most expensive beds. Not only that, but as the article says, keeping them in hospital is actually bad for their health so they end up needing more treatment! It's just one example of the huge inefficiencies involved.
Throwing money at problems is superficially attractive but doesn't actually solve the problems. Sorting out the inefficiencies will solve the problems.
We are hugely over taxed and this budget has made it worse. High taxation means low growth. Low growth means a smaller economy and a smaller economy means less tax can be raised to pay for public services. The only solution is to grow the economy - WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT RACHEL REEVES SAID BEFORE THE BUDGET - yet she has chosen to massively raise taxes and so lower growth. Unbelievable. | | | |
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