| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts 23:22 - Aug 7 with 18355 views | KeithHaynes |
A young man who wants to play football.
Sunday evening supplement. From 5pm.
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| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 09:38 - Aug 13 with 913 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 08:40 - Aug 13 by jackrmee |
Potter would have probably improved on 10th the next season though. That was the plan.
There's absolutely no point in debating who was better, as it's merely opinions.
I definitely think Potter is a better manager than Cooper. You think the opposite. Simple.
No need for constant bickering and calling people trolls though. |
We can’t say “probably” though can we. Like I said we hardly finished trending well, we didn’t win any of our last 3 games, got smashed a few times in the run up to that and picked up 32 points from January.
Considering we were about to lose some key players from that team plus his horrendous recruitment record, I’m not sure how anyone can say it was likely.
I didn’t say I thought the opposite, I took the sensible stance of stating we don’t know until their careers develops.
As for trolls, there is some certainly trolling going on with this subject, that’s clear. |  |
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| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 09:56 - Aug 13 with 894 views | jackrmee |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 09:38 - Aug 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
We can’t say “probably” though can we. Like I said we hardly finished trending well, we didn’t win any of our last 3 games, got smashed a few times in the run up to that and picked up 32 points from January.
Considering we were about to lose some key players from that team plus his horrendous recruitment record, I’m not sure how anyone can say it was likely.
I didn’t say I thought the opposite, I took the sensible stance of stating we don’t know until their careers develops.
As for trolls, there is some certainly trolling going on with this subject, that’s clear. |
Well we can say probably, because he improved Brighton.
My opinion is, Potter is a better manager than Cooper. Way way WAY better.
I don't hate Cooper, but I was so happy when Potter was here and absolutely gutted when he left.
I was happy at first with Cooper too, albeit quite worried as he was brand new to management, but I always backed him. He was getting good results, so my fears lessened, however he seemed to get stuck and would not change his tactics, even during the games when he evidently needed to. Potter would change multiple times. If we were losing at half time with Potter, I was always confident we would win the second half. Cooper seemed to have no clue tactically, until he changed to a more attcking style and manged to get us into the playoffs that first season. I wasn't gutted at all when there was talk of him leaving though. I did worry a bit when it dragged on, but I am now happier that we have Martin instead.
It wasn't just Cooper's tactics and dreary football. It was his monotone interviews where I always felt he was lying to us. He didnt answer any questions and always said the same things every bloody week mun.
I'm not trolling, whatever that may be, but I truly and honestly would prefer Potter as manager than Cooper. I really don't understand why anyone wouldn't.
He's being tipped for big jobs and I'm sure he will be a top manager one day. I can't really say that about Cooper. Can you?
I can't say that Martin is better than Cooper, but I really hope he is.
I don't think Cooper would have improved on his 2 amazing seasons this year. I don't think Martin will either, but he has just as much chance.
Martin is just beginning his career, as was Cooper. For all we know, he may be one heck of a manager.
The upside I see with Martin is the more exciting football. The players will enjoy more. The fans will enjoy more. [Post edited 13 Aug 2021 10:03]
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| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 10:32 - Aug 13 with 867 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 09:56 - Aug 13 by jackrmee |
Well we can say probably, because he improved Brighton.
My opinion is, Potter is a better manager than Cooper. Way way WAY better.
I don't hate Cooper, but I was so happy when Potter was here and absolutely gutted when he left.
I was happy at first with Cooper too, albeit quite worried as he was brand new to management, but I always backed him. He was getting good results, so my fears lessened, however he seemed to get stuck and would not change his tactics, even during the games when he evidently needed to. Potter would change multiple times. If we were losing at half time with Potter, I was always confident we would win the second half. Cooper seemed to have no clue tactically, until he changed to a more attcking style and manged to get us into the playoffs that first season. I wasn't gutted at all when there was talk of him leaving though. I did worry a bit when it dragged on, but I am now happier that we have Martin instead.
It wasn't just Cooper's tactics and dreary football. It was his monotone interviews where I always felt he was lying to us. He didnt answer any questions and always said the same things every bloody week mun.
I'm not trolling, whatever that may be, but I truly and honestly would prefer Potter as manager than Cooper. I really don't understand why anyone wouldn't.
He's being tipped for big jobs and I'm sure he will be a top manager one day. I can't really say that about Cooper. Can you?
I can't say that Martin is better than Cooper, but I really hope he is.
I don't think Cooper would have improved on his 2 amazing seasons this year. I don't think Martin will either, but he has just as much chance.
Martin is just beginning his career, as was Cooper. For all we know, he may be one heck of a manager.
The upside I see with Martin is the more exciting football. The players will enjoy more. The fans will enjoy more. [Post edited 13 Aug 2021 10:03]
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We can't say likely. Very slightly improving Brighton after spending an absolute fortune is irrelevant.
He spent 67m in his first term, they came 15th. Spent a further 25m the season after and they came 16th, spent a further 25m this season... so he has spent 117m in 2 seasons and a pre season and the signs are the Brighton are trending backwards.
You are welcome to have an opinion that anyone is better than anyone, however when they both managed the same club, Cooper outperformed Potter with an awful lot less resources.
As for being tipped for big jobs, they have both been tipped for the same Spurs job if that's what you are referring to? Except due to what Cooper did here, he didn't need PL experience to be linked to such a club unlike Potter.
I don't think Potter did very well at all, I think he wholly underachieved. Others are welcome to agree but our finishing position, and our subsequent finishing positions and points tally don't seem to back that view. Considering his horrific record of spending, I don't subscribe to the notion we were due to improve when we were about to lose some massive players with 1m to spend.
I didn't say you were trolling. | |
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| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:00 - Aug 13 with 831 views | jackrmee |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 10:32 - Aug 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
We can't say likely. Very slightly improving Brighton after spending an absolute fortune is irrelevant.
He spent 67m in his first term, they came 15th. Spent a further 25m the season after and they came 16th, spent a further 25m this season... so he has spent 117m in 2 seasons and a pre season and the signs are the Brighton are trending backwards.
You are welcome to have an opinion that anyone is better than anyone, however when they both managed the same club, Cooper outperformed Potter with an awful lot less resources.
As for being tipped for big jobs, they have both been tipped for the same Spurs job if that's what you are referring to? Except due to what Cooper did here, he didn't need PL experience to be linked to such a club unlike Potter.
I don't think Potter did very well at all, I think he wholly underachieved. Others are welcome to agree but our finishing position, and our subsequent finishing positions and points tally don't seem to back that view. Considering his horrific record of spending, I don't subscribe to the notion we were due to improve when we were about to lose some massive players with 1m to spend.
I didn't say you were trolling. |
Well you said people were trolling by saying Potter is better than Cooper, or something along those lines. I guess I shouldn't have taken that to mean me.
I don't think the league position shows Brighton's decline.
Their defence was up there with the best in the division for the second half of last season. He is most definitely improving them, whilst changing their whole philosophy.
Yes I agree Potter underachieved, but I don't think that first season was the plan for going straight back up. He was clearly experimenting.
I personally believe that Potter is destined for great things. Managing a massive club.
I think Cooper's tactical nous is so much lower than Potter and Cooper will be best used as an international manager. The way he talks and plays and is able to get players motivated to win one game at a time.
That's my opinion. I'm willing to take your opinion on board, but I'm not going to go on and on about it. | |
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| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:11 - Aug 13 with 824 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:00 - Aug 13 by jackrmee |
Well you said people were trolling by saying Potter is better than Cooper, or something along those lines. I guess I shouldn't have taken that to mean me.
I don't think the league position shows Brighton's decline.
Their defence was up there with the best in the division for the second half of last season. He is most definitely improving them, whilst changing their whole philosophy.
Yes I agree Potter underachieved, but I don't think that first season was the plan for going straight back up. He was clearly experimenting.
I personally believe that Potter is destined for great things. Managing a massive club.
I think Cooper's tactical nous is so much lower than Potter and Cooper will be best used as an international manager. The way he talks and plays and is able to get players motivated to win one game at a time.
That's my opinion. I'm willing to take your opinion on board, but I'm not going to go on and on about it. |
No I didn't, people are welcome to say anyone is better than anyone.
People are trolling when they bring up Cooper and twist facts in any given situation to badmouth the manager, often when he isn't even anything to do with the subject at hand. Certain people had a deep annoyance that they could never get closure on their dislike of him because he simply proved them wrong at every turn and left us in 4th position.
Not sure what you mean by you disagree they have declined in league position, that wasn't an opinion, it was a fact. They went from 15th to 16th, they are inching closer to the trap door despite spending an absolute fortune.
Almost nothing here is my opinion. Brighton are showing decline despite Potter spending well over 100m, when they had the same job Cooper vastly outperformed what Potter achieved with much less resources.
That's just saying what happened, its not an opinion. [Post edited 13 Aug 2021 11:25]
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| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:19 - Aug 13 with 816 views | jackrmee |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:11 - Aug 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
No I didn't, people are welcome to say anyone is better than anyone.
People are trolling when they bring up Cooper and twist facts in any given situation to badmouth the manager, often when he isn't even anything to do with the subject at hand. Certain people had a deep annoyance that they could never get closure on their dislike of him because he simply proved them wrong at every turn and left us in 4th position.
Not sure what you mean by you disagree they have declined in league position, that wasn't an opinion, it was a fact. They went from 15th to 16th, they are inching closer to the trap door despite spending an absolute fortune.
Almost nothing here is my opinion. Brighton are showing decline despite Potter spending well over 100m, when they had the same job Cooper vastly outperformed what Potter achieved with much less resources.
That's just saying what happened, its not an opinion. [Post edited 13 Aug 2021 11:25]
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I mean, I don't think their decline in league position translates to decline in general.
It is an opinion.
They are a lot better than when he took over from Chris Hughton. That's my opinion. There are no facts to this.
League position does not always equal to how good a team you are. | |
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| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:27 - Aug 13 with 807 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:19 - Aug 13 by jackrmee |
I mean, I don't think their decline in league position translates to decline in general.
It is an opinion.
They are a lot better than when he took over from Chris Hughton. That's my opinion. There are no facts to this.
League position does not always equal to how good a team you are. |
They are a handful of points better off. Under Hughton they got 36, under Potter they average 41... but you would expect so after spending 117m, wouldn't you?
I think league position is a pretty fair measure of progress or decline. Its a large sample size of 38 game blocks.
There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that people would be saying Cooper declined if last season he finished 7th and out of the playoffs after finishing 6th the season before. [Post edited 13 Aug 2021 11:29]
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| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:30 - Aug 13 with 795 views | jackrmee |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:27 - Aug 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
They are a handful of points better off. Under Hughton they got 36, under Potter they average 41... but you would expect so after spending 117m, wouldn't you?
I think league position is a pretty fair measure of progress or decline. Its a large sample size of 38 game blocks.
There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that people would be saying Cooper declined if last season he finished 7th and out of the playoffs after finishing 6th the season before. [Post edited 13 Aug 2021 11:29]
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As I said before, league position/points don't necessarily equal to improvement or decline.
Yes I would expect that.
Would I expect Cooper to improve on that if he'd taken over Brighton...No. | |
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| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:42 - Aug 13 with 786 views | JackDragon |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:27 - Aug 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
They are a handful of points better off. Under Hughton they got 36, under Potter they average 41... but you would expect so after spending 117m, wouldn't you?
I think league position is a pretty fair measure of progress or decline. Its a large sample size of 38 game blocks.
There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that people would be saying Cooper declined if last season he finished 7th and out of the playoffs after finishing 6th the season before. [Post edited 13 Aug 2021 11:29]
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Actually, league position is just a measure of how teams performed against each other during a set period and not necessarily and indication of improvement or decline. For arguments sake, if a team finishes a season on 36 points and stays up but the following season gets relegated on 41 points have they improved or declined? STID |  | | |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:43 - Aug 13 with 784 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:30 - Aug 13 by jackrmee |
As I said before, league position/points don't necessarily equal to improvement or decline.
Yes I would expect that.
Would I expect Cooper to improve on that if he'd taken over Brighton...No. |
Saying it doesn't mean it's true though, I think it is a fairly standardised measure that most people would find logical.
I absolutely think if Cooper was given 117m to spend at Brighton, he would improve on 17th place. The way he get us playing more effectively despite less resources is a clear indicator there. | |
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| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:46 - Aug 13 with 779 views | jackrmee |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:43 - Aug 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
Saying it doesn't mean it's true though, I think it is a fairly standardised measure that most people would find logical.
I absolutely think if Cooper was given 117m to spend at Brighton, he would improve on 17th place. The way he get us playing more effectively despite less resources is a clear indicator there. |
OK. Our opinions differ, end of. | |
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| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:48 - Aug 13 with 775 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:42 - Aug 13 by JackDragon |
Actually, league position is just a measure of how teams performed against each other during a set period and not necessarily and indication of improvement or decline. For arguments sake, if a team finishes a season on 36 points and stays up but the following season gets relegated on 41 points have they improved or declined? STID |
League position is directly correlated to league position. If there are odd anomalies like that then you judge it case by case.
There was no progression under Potter then, if that is more palatable. However their league position trend suggests while other teams are picking up, they aren't. | |
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| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:50 - Aug 13 with 773 views | PatchesOHoulihan |
It is your opinion though!! because there are too many variables to just pick and choose stats as you want and use them as facts to claim you back everything up. |  |
| This is Patches O'Houlihan saying "Take care of your balls, and they'll take care of you." |
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| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:51 - Aug 13 with 771 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:46 - Aug 13 by jackrmee |
OK. Our opinions differ, end of. |
They do differ, but I stress again, there is very little opinion in what I am saying. It's simply putting facts down on the thread. | |
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| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:54 - Aug 13 with 769 views | jasper_T |
Is spending £117m in the PL a lot these days? How much have the other teams in the division spent over the same period? We spent more than half that in the season we went down. | | | |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:58 - Aug 13 with 764 views | ItchySphincter |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 10:32 - Aug 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
We can't say likely. Very slightly improving Brighton after spending an absolute fortune is irrelevant.
He spent 67m in his first term, they came 15th. Spent a further 25m the season after and they came 16th, spent a further 25m this season... so he has spent 117m in 2 seasons and a pre season and the signs are the Brighton are trending backwards.
You are welcome to have an opinion that anyone is better than anyone, however when they both managed the same club, Cooper outperformed Potter with an awful lot less resources.
As for being tipped for big jobs, they have both been tipped for the same Spurs job if that's what you are referring to? Except due to what Cooper did here, he didn't need PL experience to be linked to such a club unlike Potter.
I don't think Potter did very well at all, I think he wholly underachieved. Others are welcome to agree but our finishing position, and our subsequent finishing positions and points tally don't seem to back that view. Considering his horrific record of spending, I don't subscribe to the notion we were due to improve when we were about to lose some massive players with 1m to spend.
I didn't say you were trolling. |
All if, buts and maybes and neither of you can ever be proven right or wrong but one thing is certain and that is before Potter came we had been on a slow and steady downward trajectory, and in the eyes of many he dealt with the fallout of relegation well and besides generally terrible defending from aerial balls into the box he gave the fans something to look forward to, and a bit of hope. Cooper was pragmatic and rarely delivered the same hope. For normal fans it’s all about feeling baby. I appreciate that you are different. |  |
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| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:59 - Aug 13 with 761 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:54 - Aug 13 by jasper_T |
Is spending £117m in the PL a lot these days? How much have the other teams in the division spent over the same period? We spent more than half that in the season we went down. |
Certainly is yes.
I will do a quick comparison of the year he took over and finished 15th. No idea how it will come out, but I would think Brighton would be in the top 10 for spending. No point in doing a comparison over more than 1 year as some wont be in the league anymore due to not getting the advantages of Brighton's spending power.
Stand by. [Post edited 13 Aug 2021 12:16]
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| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 12:10 - Aug 13 with 754 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:59 - Aug 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
Certainly is yes.
I will do a quick comparison of the year he took over and finished 15th. No idea how it will come out, but I would think Brighton would be in the top 10 for spending. No point in doing a comparison over more than 1 year as some wont be in the league anymore due to not getting the advantages of Brighton's spending power.
Stand by. [Post edited 13 Aug 2021 12:16]
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Great guess, top 10 spenders that season.
1. Man Utd 211.3
2. Arsenal 144.6m
3. Man City 143.5m
4. Villa 143.5m
5. Spurs 133.6m
6. Everton 108.9
7West Ham 107.8
8. Wolves 105m
9. Leicester 93.7
10. Brighton 67.5m
11. Newcastle 65.6m
12. Sheff Utd 63.4m
13. Southampton 59m
14. Bournemouth 49.4m
15. Watford 43.6m
16. Chelsea 40.5m
17. Burnley 21.4m
18. Liverpool 9.36m
19. Norwich 7.9m
20. Palace 6.8m | |
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| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 12:13 - Aug 13 with 752 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:58 - Aug 13 by ItchySphincter |
All if, buts and maybes and neither of you can ever be proven right or wrong but one thing is certain and that is before Potter came we had been on a slow and steady downward trajectory, and in the eyes of many he dealt with the fallout of relegation well and besides generally terrible defending from aerial balls into the box he gave the fans something to look forward to, and a bit of hope. Cooper was pragmatic and rarely delivered the same hope. For normal fans it’s all about feeling baby. I appreciate that you are different. |
''Cooper was pragmatic and rarely delivered the same hope. For normal fans it’s all about feeling baby. I appreciate that you are different.''
That's assuming all fans feelings are the same of course, which would be foolish. I felt far happier being 6th and 4th than being 10th, that's for sure. It was incredibly frustrating to have such a squad upon relegation, spend 6m and still get nowhere near. | |
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| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 12:35 - Aug 13 with 730 views | jackrmee |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 11:51 - Aug 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
They do differ, but I stress again, there is very little opinion in what I am saying. It's simply putting facts down on the thread. |
Don't stress   | |
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| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 12:38 - Aug 13 with 729 views | jackrmee |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 12:10 - Aug 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
Great guess, top 10 spenders that season.
1. Man Utd 211.3
2. Arsenal 144.6m
3. Man City 143.5m
4. Villa 143.5m
5. Spurs 133.6m
6. Everton 108.9
7West Ham 107.8
8. Wolves 105m
9. Leicester 93.7
10. Brighton 67.5m
11. Newcastle 65.6m
12. Sheff Utd 63.4m
13. Southampton 59m
14. Bournemouth 49.4m
15. Watford 43.6m
16. Chelsea 40.5m
17. Burnley 21.4m
18. Liverpool 9.36m
19. Norwich 7.9m
20. Palace 6.8m |
Mystic Parnassus! You are my hero  | |
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| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 12:57 - Aug 13 with 690 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 12:38 - Aug 13 by jackrmee |
Mystic Parnassus! You are my hero |
I’ll tell you something - he doesn’t half ruin some good threads with his pedantry. Poor Joel Piroe will be reading this thinking - this f*ckers ruined my thread! |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 12:58 - Aug 13 with 686 views | jackrmee |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 12:57 - Aug 13 by Brynmill_Jack |
I’ll tell you something - he doesn’t half ruin some good threads with his pedantry. Poor Joel Piroe will be reading this thinking - this f*ckers ruined my thread! |
....again | |
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| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 13:06 - Aug 13 with 677 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 12:57 - Aug 13 by Brynmill_Jack |
I’ll tell you something - he doesn’t half ruin some good threads with his pedantry. Poor Joel Piroe will be reading this thinking - this f*ckers ruined my thread! |
Pedantic? Over what?
If you don't like the opinions I am giving and then backing them with actual facts, then feel free to put forward your own.
You always start crying when I start proving what I am saying to be true. I know it's not fashionable to be realistic when the golden boy is concerned. Thankfully I didn't get the memo. | |
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| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 13:09 - Aug 13 with 675 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Joel Piroe : Facing up to facts on 12:58 - Aug 13 by jackrmee |
....again |
Now it's comments like that crosses into the realm of trolling. Which is a shame.
You are giving your views, I am giving you mine and backing it with data - so you are saying I have ruined a thread?
Surely you see how silly that is? Maybe you don't... | |
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