| Wasting a decent team 11:12 - Nov 1 with 3709 views | Dando |
What has really frustrated me all season, is that I genuinely think we have a decent team out there. We are wasting what could be a good season for us, by tinkering about with the side unnecessarily
- We have Sylla up front who thrives on crosses, yet we don't play wingers to supply him anything.
- If and when wingers do play, they tend to be on the wrong side so they cut in and cannot cross the ball
- Cousins - excellent player for Charlton, and one we were all excited by - plays most games on the wing where anyone and everyone can see he is not comfortable at all
- Chery - working our whole team around a player, who is not in the same mould as Adel and is on very poor form. Clearly isn't working, why are we continuing bulding around him?
- Washington - a regular goalscorer for Peterborough. Plays on the wing where he cuts in, or up front alone. When are we going to try him alongside Polter or Sylla?
- Long ball - heard many times from JFH that we want to play quick exciting football. When has long ball been exciting? Not seen any evidence of what he says
- Setting up our side, to deal with the opponents. Why cant we set up ours in a positive way, so opponents have to adjust to ours? Especially at home
- No settled team. The lineup is different every week. Injuries aside, it is barely ever recognisable
- Giving players a run/time to settle. - Pavel, Shodipo are both players who have been excellent in most games. Why drop them, and see performances and results get worse? yet players e.g Henry who have held us back week in week out, have not been dropped until recently
If these madness decisions above were getting results, I could understand it and live with it to an extent, but clearly we have been awful. 2 wins at home, and even away games we have won you could count as extremely fortunate. Lets not forget that many games we won early in the season were down to winning penalties.
Can anyone explain to me how any of the above points can make any sense to JFH? I want to give managers time, but clearly he is not learning at all.
I think we have some very good players, and some players who could make the game exciting. Pace and crosses from Shodipo and Pavel, crunching tackles from Ariel, quality on the ball from Luongo, passion from Polter, class and confidence from Chery, top saves from a top keeper. Why not use the tools we have to their potential? |  | | |  |
| Wasting a decent team on 13:52 - Nov 1 with 3597 views | Northernr |
I agree with a lot of this. It would be interesting to see what a new manager did with them, because I think we have some very good players not being used correctly. Why, for instance, does Luongo score for fun for Australia and not for us? Yes I know they're often playing Iraq and Kuwait and whatever, but we're not exactly playing Pep Guardiola's Barcelona ourselves are we and yet he never gets a sniff of a goal.
I often feel our midfield is like an unfinished Rubik's cube - just needs a couple more twists so the wingers are on the right wings and the central midfielders are in the centre of midfield.
Or it could be that they're not very good. Time will tell. |  | | |
| Wasting a decent team on 14:04 - Nov 1 with 3563 views | kingsburyR |
Wheres Yeni and the other lad we signed whose name I cant pronounce? |  |
| Dont know why we bother. .... but we do! |
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| Wasting a decent team on 14:06 - Nov 1 with 3550 views | Northernr |
| Wasting a decent team on 14:04 - Nov 1 by kingsburyR |
Wheres Yeni and the other lad we signed whose name I cant pronounce? |
Yeni is injured, not sure the other one you mean. | | | |
| Wasting a decent team on 14:12 - Nov 1 with 3534 views | Hunterhoop |
Well, exactly.
This side, where the wingers stay wide and we play with width, would be a handful in my opinion, and gives us a bit of everything.
Smithies
Perch Onouha Lynch 'a LB'
Borysiuk Luongo
Wscolek Chery Shodipo
Polter
Sylla and Polter fighting for a place
Chery can be replaced by Cousins or Luongo or Washington, depending how attacking we want to be.
Ngbakoto fights with Wscolek
Chery could cover Shodipo
Hall and Caulker cover the CBs.
Kakay covers Perch
Bidwell/Robinson/Hammalienen is enough at LB
Ingram covers Smithies.
Play this shape team week in week out.
The key is width and getting the ball wide and keeping our wingers wide:
- It will create more space for Chery
- Crosses play to Polter and Sylla's strengths
- It doesn't mean Luongo has to spend all game running from side to side of the pitch covering for his our "wide player" being too narrow and too high up the pitch
- It gives our FBs a ball out of defence to feet.
On separate note, we MUST stop this ploy of both CBs splitting wide when Smithies gets the ball so he can throw out to one of them.
If we lose the ball quickly our CBs are out of position and too far apart
They tread on their FBs toes when splitting meaning it's too tight on that flank so we can't play it short and have to lump it
It asks our worst ball players to play the ball out from deep. |  | | |
| Wasting a decent team on 14:13 - Nov 1 with 3533 views | kingsburyR |
| Wasting a decent team on 14:06 - Nov 1 by Northernr |
Yeni is injured, not sure the other one you mean. |
Yeni and the other bloke are the same person it turns out.
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| Dont know why we bother. .... but we do! |
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| Wasting a decent team on 14:16 - Nov 1 with 3525 views | wombat |
| Wasting a decent team on 14:06 - Nov 1 by Northernr |
Yeni is injured, not sure the other one you mean. |
the polish winger !! no idea how hes not been starting games
no idea why cousins is on the wing
not sure on a lot of JFH descisions to be honest .
warnock would have molded them into a functioning outfit as would most managers not sure why JFH cant seem to get it right |  |
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| Wasting a decent team on 14:38 - Nov 1 with 3478 views | FDC |
| Wasting a decent team on 14:12 - Nov 1 by Hunterhoop |
Well, exactly.
This side, where the wingers stay wide and we play with width, would be a handful in my opinion, and gives us a bit of everything.
Smithies
Perch Onouha Lynch 'a LB'
Borysiuk Luongo
Wscolek Chery Shodipo
Polter
Sylla and Polter fighting for a place
Chery can be replaced by Cousins or Luongo or Washington, depending how attacking we want to be.
Ngbakoto fights with Wscolek
Chery could cover Shodipo
Hall and Caulker cover the CBs.
Kakay covers Perch
Bidwell/Robinson/Hammalienen is enough at LB
Ingram covers Smithies.
Play this shape team week in week out.
The key is width and getting the ball wide and keeping our wingers wide:
- It will create more space for Chery
- Crosses play to Polter and Sylla's strengths
- It doesn't mean Luongo has to spend all game running from side to side of the pitch covering for his our "wide player" being too narrow and too high up the pitch
- It gives our FBs a ball out of defence to feet.
On separate note, we MUST stop this ploy of both CBs splitting wide when Smithies gets the ball so he can throw out to one of them.
If we lose the ball quickly our CBs are out of position and too far apart
They tread on their FBs toes when splitting meaning it's too tight on that flank so we can't play it short and have to lump it
It asks our worst ball players to play the ball out from deep. |
That's the first eleven I like. The only argument against it is, given how lacking in ideas we are when going forward currently, it may be a lot of pressure to then suddenly rely on Wszolek and Shodipo to create something for us, given how inexperienced they both are at this level.
Would still like to see that team though. |  | | |
| Wasting a decent team on 14:51 - Nov 1 with 3438 views | Toast_R |
| Wasting a decent team on 14:16 - Nov 1 by wombat |
the polish winger !! no idea how hes not been starting games
no idea why cousins is on the wing
not sure on a lot of JFH descisions to be honest .
warnock would have molded them into a functioning outfit as would most managers not sure why JFH cant seem to get it right |
Because he believes that everything must flow through Chery and when he's not an outlet option, it just seems to go long.
Chery is a good player don't get me wrong and could probably hold his own in the Premier League but this whole build up play looking to get him on the ball as the only option to get forwards is hindering us badly IMO.
Be interesting to see how the team would setup if he was unavailable. I suspect two strikers deployed and more natural width that we've been crying out for. |  | | |
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| Wasting a decent team on 15:00 - Nov 1 with 3421 views | Dando |
Both Pavel and Shodipo tend to put several crosses in every game, and it is exactly what Sylla and Polter need. Washington would also benefit from this extra service if played up front, and it would also take pressure off Chery to create everything. Seems so simple to me, I don't understand why we cant just stick to it.
Are we playing Washington on the wing just because he defends better than Chery does there? If so, this seems crazy to me. Washington is a striker, not a defender and we should be putting players like this, strength first.
If we end up very low down this year, we will start to lose players like Chery, Luongo etc who I am sure will do a much better job elsewhere where they are used correctly. It would be sickening. | | | |
| Wasting a decent team on 15:22 - Nov 1 with 3383 views | actonman |
| Wasting a decent team on 15:00 - Nov 1 by Dando |
Both Pavel and Shodipo tend to put several crosses in every game, and it is exactly what Sylla and Polter need. Washington would also benefit from this extra service if played up front, and it would also take pressure off Chery to create everything. Seems so simple to me, I don't understand why we cant just stick to it.
Are we playing Washington on the wing just because he defends better than Chery does there? If so, this seems crazy to me. Washington is a striker, not a defender and we should be putting players like this, strength first.
If we end up very low down this year, we will start to lose players like Chery, Luongo etc who I am sure will do a much better job elsewhere where they are used correctly. It would be sickening. |
This is my concern also, it's alright saying let's give it til the end of the season and jfh needs time and all that bllox but the way we're playing (btw ain't going to change this season or next) then the decent players we have got will shoot off quicker than a schoolboy with his first copy of razzler ! |  | | |
| Wasting a decent team on 16:32 - Nov 1 with 3273 views | stevec |
| Wasting a decent team on 15:00 - Nov 1 by Dando |
Both Pavel and Shodipo tend to put several crosses in every game, and it is exactly what Sylla and Polter need. Washington would also benefit from this extra service if played up front, and it would also take pressure off Chery to create everything. Seems so simple to me, I don't understand why we cant just stick to it.
Are we playing Washington on the wing just because he defends better than Chery does there? If so, this seems crazy to me. Washington is a striker, not a defender and we should be putting players like this, strength first.
If we end up very low down this year, we will start to lose players like Chery, Luongo etc who I am sure will do a much better job elsewhere where they are used correctly. It would be sickening. |
And losing Chery and Luongo would be a bad thing?
I keep getting told we haven't got the players for a four man midfield and yet I watch a five man midfield get run over week after week. |  | | |
| Wasting a decent team on 16:35 - Nov 1 with 3260 views | Antti_Heinola |
TBF because of either not having a proper pre-season and being very young, neither Wszolek or Shodipo seem able to finish games. Shodipo in particular fades very badly in the second half, so can see why he's not always starting, especially when Conor has done quite well as an attacking left sided player.
But agree, ideally I'd like to see at least one of Wszolek and Shodipo start every game for width.
One thing about Cousins. He started Brentford game as part of a three man midfield, not a right winger. But poor Robinson was getting so mullered that we switched to a 4-2-3-1, with the idea of Washington giving him more cover. A problem of JFH's own making to be sure, but I don't think he wants to play cousins as a wide player.
I also slightly disagree with the OP - I don't think this is a great squad. I think it's ok. Upper mid-table, threatening play-offs maybe. But that's about it. It's very, very thin, too. [Post edited 1 Nov 2016 16:37]
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| Wasting a decent team on 16:57 - Nov 1 with 3215 views | stevec |
| Wasting a decent team on 16:35 - Nov 1 by Antti_Heinola |
TBF because of either not having a proper pre-season and being very young, neither Wszolek or Shodipo seem able to finish games. Shodipo in particular fades very badly in the second half, so can see why he's not always starting, especially when Conor has done quite well as an attacking left sided player.
But agree, ideally I'd like to see at least one of Wszolek and Shodipo start every game for width.
One thing about Cousins. He started Brentford game as part of a three man midfield, not a right winger. But poor Robinson was getting so mullered that we switched to a 4-2-3-1, with the idea of Washington giving him more cover. A problem of JFH's own making to be sure, but I don't think he wants to play cousins as a wide player.
I also slightly disagree with the OP - I don't think this is a great squad. I think it's ok. Upper mid-table, threatening play-offs maybe. But that's about it. It's very, very thin, too. [Post edited 1 Nov 2016 16:37]
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Agree, It's not a great squad.
Premier League keepers
Championship Defence
League One midfield
League One attack
and with Midfield and Attack, some weeks that's being generous. | | | |
| Wasting a decent team on 17:13 - Nov 1 with 3180 views | BasingstokeR |
Very squarely mid table so don't we have a Championship GK, DEF, MID and Attack??? Think the "league one" standard calls might be a bit unfair. |  | | |
| Wasting a decent team on 17:32 - Nov 1 with 3141 views | qprphil |
The plain and simple truth in a nutshell is, we all know we have the players, but most of them played in the wrong position. Which means the players will not be giving their all sub consciously, as they are not entirely happy doing this. The problem, I'm afraid, the manager. | | | |
| Wasting a decent team on 17:52 - Nov 1 with 3124 views | NW10Hoop |
| Wasting a decent team on 16:35 - Nov 1 by Antti_Heinola |
TBF because of either not having a proper pre-season and being very young, neither Wszolek or Shodipo seem able to finish games. Shodipo in particular fades very badly in the second half, so can see why he's not always starting, especially when Conor has done quite well as an attacking left sided player.
But agree, ideally I'd like to see at least one of Wszolek and Shodipo start every game for width.
One thing about Cousins. He started Brentford game as part of a three man midfield, not a right winger. But poor Robinson was getting so mullered that we switched to a 4-2-3-1, with the idea of Washington giving him more cover. A problem of JFH's own making to be sure, but I don't think he wants to play cousins as a wide player.
I also slightly disagree with the OP - I don't think this is a great squad. I think it's ok. Upper mid-table, threatening play-offs maybe. But that's about it. It's very, very thin, too. [Post edited 1 Nov 2016 16:37]
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Hate to use Chelsea to make my point, but I remember (I think it was under Ranieri) Damien Duff and Arjen Robben, getting 45 minutes each in loads of games. They were told to go hell for leather for the half. If we only trust Wszolek and Shodipo to be effective for a short amount of game time, then I'd rather have this as one of our enforced changes than knowing Robinson is only gonna last 55 minutes and we're gonna have to rejig everything. We all knew he wasn't gonna last too long in a derby game. |  | | |
| Wasting a decent team on 18:26 - Nov 1 with 3074 views | Dando |
| Wasting a decent team on 16:35 - Nov 1 by Antti_Heinola |
TBF because of either not having a proper pre-season and being very young, neither Wszolek or Shodipo seem able to finish games. Shodipo in particular fades very badly in the second half, so can see why he's not always starting, especially when Conor has done quite well as an attacking left sided player.
But agree, ideally I'd like to see at least one of Wszolek and Shodipo start every game for width.
One thing about Cousins. He started Brentford game as part of a three man midfield, not a right winger. But poor Robinson was getting so mullered that we switched to a 4-2-3-1, with the idea of Washington giving him more cover. A problem of JFH's own making to be sure, but I don't think he wants to play cousins as a wide player.
I also slightly disagree with the OP - I don't think this is a great squad. I think it's ok. Upper mid-table, threatening play-offs maybe. But that's about it. It's very, very thin, too. [Post edited 1 Nov 2016 16:37]
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Maybe "great" was not the right word, but the squad to me looks capable of performing much better than it is, and maybe finishing somewhere between 10the and 6th.
If Shodipo and Pavel can't finish games, why not start them and get on the front foot, and take them off if needbe? Rather than chasing the game desperately with 20-30 mind to go when it's too late, which is what we seem to do nearly every week. I don't understand it at all | | | |
| Wasting a decent team on 18:44 - Nov 1 with 3055 views | bosh67 |
It's an average but honest and hard working championship squad, with players trying to make the grade, often at a level above what they have played before, working under a manager and coach who are struggling to make the jump from league 1 to championship, and who aren't sure whether to keep the ball or punt it up field. I think it is as simple as that. |  |
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| Wasting a decent team on 05:30 - Nov 2 with 2855 views | jonno |
I always think it's a mistake to base your side around one player, because unless that player is unbelievably good then it is far too easy for the opposition to close him down, and then you have a problem. And Chery is not that superior that he can't be closed down. It also means that there is too much pressure on that one player, and what happens when he is injured, unavailable, off form etc?
In our case it has also meant that other decent players are being played out of position. |  | | |
| Wasting a decent team on 06:01 - Nov 2 with 2844 views | DubaiR |
I would like to see us play the following:
Smithies
Perch Caulker Lynch Robinson
Wszolek Borysiuk Cousins Yeni
Sylla Washington
Good options on the bench in Hall, Onouha, Luongo, Shopido, Polter |  | | |
| Wasting a decent team on 08:09 - Nov 2 with 2805 views | DWQPR |
| Wasting a decent team on 16:35 - Nov 1 by Antti_Heinola |
TBF because of either not having a proper pre-season and being very young, neither Wszolek or Shodipo seem able to finish games. Shodipo in particular fades very badly in the second half, so can see why he's not always starting, especially when Conor has done quite well as an attacking left sided player.
But agree, ideally I'd like to see at least one of Wszolek and Shodipo start every game for width.
One thing about Cousins. He started Brentford game as part of a three man midfield, not a right winger. But poor Robinson was getting so mullered that we switched to a 4-2-3-1, with the idea of Washington giving him more cover. A problem of JFH's own making to be sure, but I don't think he wants to play cousins as a wide player.
I also slightly disagree with the OP - I don't think this is a great squad. I think it's ok. Upper mid-table, threatening play-offs maybe. But that's about it. It's very, very thin, too. [Post edited 1 Nov 2016 16:37]
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Antti, love reading some of your posts, which bring a nice perspective to things but, sorry, your first statement stinks all PC to me and an excuse for Hasselbaink. Wszolek would have had a pre-season, if it wasn't that great then for Christ sake we are now in November, great pre-season or not, he should by now be fit enough to last 90 minutes or at least the first 70 to make a mark on the game. Shodipo, he is 19, he can have sex, he can drink and smoke, he can vote and he can even fight for his country and if he is good enough then he should play because he sure is going to be more effective than Cousins on the right hand side. The problem with the team isn't a lack of ability but the constant chopping and changing of players week in week out and the playing of players in wrong positions. In a nutshell very poor management from a manager who frankly isn't up to managing. And the football as a result is appalling. I would rather watch Wszolek and Shodipo have bad games in the knowledge that at any moment they could do something that could turn a game. Having greater width on the pitch will also mean more room for Chery to do what we know he can do. Trouble is that all this is so ball-achingly obvious.
And I don't buy into this average squad theory either. We have spent more over the last two seasons than most clubs in this league and we do have a decent squad with some very good and exciting players. But they will look poor with poor management. | |
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| Wasting a decent team on 10:13 - Nov 2 with 2754 views | Hunterhoop |
| Wasting a decent team on 06:01 - Nov 2 by DubaiR |
I would like to see us play the following:
Smithies
Perch Caulker Lynch Robinson
Wszolek Borysiuk Cousins Yeni
Sylla Washington
Good options on the bench in Hall, Onouha, Luongo, Shopido, Polter |
Mate, not sure Onouha has been head and shoulders above Caulker at CB recently. Superb man marking job on Abraham, won everthing against Wednesday, and, actually, as a CB played well against Brentford. Caulker was the one going awol up the pitch and heading the ball back into the danger areas.
From what I've see this season, Onouha should start at CB ahead of anyone else. I'd like to see Lynch play alongside him in the "Richard Dunne" role, And for us to try to recreate that partnership, which, in case anyone forgets, had the record that season for fewest goals conceded. | | | |
| Wasting a decent team on 10:17 - Nov 2 with 2748 views | paulparker |
| Wasting a decent team on 10:13 - Nov 2 by Hunterhoop |
Mate, not sure Onouha has been head and shoulders above Caulker at CB recently. Superb man marking job on Abraham, won everthing against Wednesday, and, actually, as a CB played well against Brentford. Caulker was the one going awol up the pitch and heading the ball back into the danger areas.
From what I've see this season, Onouha should start at CB ahead of anyone else. I'd like to see Lynch play alongside him in the "Richard Dunne" role, And for us to try to recreate that partnership, which, in case anyone forgets, had the record that season for fewest goals conceded. |
that's not saying a lot Caulker is a dreadful excuse of a footballer
does this bloke ever get his kit dirty ? or even break sweat ,
he cant head or tackle and his positioning is all over the place , hopefully someone like Sunderland buy him in January
Lynch & Hall when fit should be our centre back pairing |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Wasting a decent team on 15:47 - Nov 2 with 2634 views | onlyrinmoray |
| Wasting a decent team on 05:30 - Nov 2 by jonno |
I always think it's a mistake to base your side around one player, because unless that player is unbelievably good then it is far too easy for the opposition to close him down, and then you have a problem. And Chery is not that superior that he can't be closed down. It also means that there is too much pressure on that one player, and what happens when he is injured, unavailable, off form etc?
In our case it has also meant that other decent players are being played out of position. |
I agree with you jonno If you build the team around one player and he is having a mare then you lose. Happened at Sheffield Weds recently, the commentators were saying that as well |  | | |
| Wasting a decent team on 16:04 - Nov 2 with 2619 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Wasting a decent team on 08:09 - Nov 2 by DWQPR |
Antti, love reading some of your posts, which bring a nice perspective to things but, sorry, your first statement stinks all PC to me and an excuse for Hasselbaink. Wszolek would have had a pre-season, if it wasn't that great then for Christ sake we are now in November, great pre-season or not, he should by now be fit enough to last 90 minutes or at least the first 70 to make a mark on the game. Shodipo, he is 19, he can have sex, he can drink and smoke, he can vote and he can even fight for his country and if he is good enough then he should play because he sure is going to be more effective than Cousins on the right hand side. The problem with the team isn't a lack of ability but the constant chopping and changing of players week in week out and the playing of players in wrong positions. In a nutshell very poor management from a manager who frankly isn't up to managing. And the football as a result is appalling. I would rather watch Wszolek and Shodipo have bad games in the knowledge that at any moment they could do something that could turn a game. Having greater width on the pitch will also mean more room for Chery to do what we know he can do. Trouble is that all this is so ball-achingly obvious.
And I don't buy into this average squad theory either. We have spent more over the last two seasons than most clubs in this league and we do have a decent squad with some very good and exciting players. But they will look poor with poor management. |
not sure what's politically correct about it?
Wszolek was injured i believe in the summer, which was why he didn't go to the euros, which was why he didn't have a proper pre-season. but agree he should be up to it by now - but all the players who've come from abroad struggle with the 7 games in 21 days scenarios we've had twice this season already. They're just not used to it.
I love Shodipo. but you can't tell me you've watched all his games and not noticed his profound drop-off in the second half? He absolutely should not be starting every game. In the squad if fit, yes, but madness to start every game. Not really sure what drinking, smoking or going to war (!) has to do with it. Agree I'd have him before Cousins at right wing however - but Cousins has mainly played there when we've been short in that position.
none of this is making excuses - you think JFH is 'appalling' - I think that's harsh. But it doesn't mean i don't think he's made mistakes. but sometimes there are reasons for decisions.
we have spent a lot - to replace some good, settled players. that's not easy. | |
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