Southampton V Norwich City The Verdict Sunday, 13th Aug 2023 10:51 Entertainment returned to St Mary's in a pulsating game, but worryingly what was still there from last season was a lack of leadership and organisation in the centre of our defence, with the money about to roll in, we need to spend some of it fast and well.
It felt strange at St Mary's , with no James Ward Prowse in the squad for the first time in years, they say sometimes you don't realise what you have until it's gone and even his biggest critic would agree that we missed James Ward Prowse yesterday, tomorrow a little of the soul of Southampton Football Club will depart and we will miss him greatly as this game showed.
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But if we missed JWP in midfield, we lacked any sort of leadership or organisation in the back four, Jan Bednarek and Jack Stephens were not a good combination, both lack the organisational skills that we have badly lacked since the departure of Virgil Van Dijk nearly 6 years ago and both lack the pace that we need.
The game started badly for Saints, after only 7 minutes came the first defensive lapse, or at leas the first to cost us a goal in this game, a cross to the far post found Josh Sargent completely unmarked and he headed home from close range leaving Bazunu no chance.
But we rallied and 10 minutes later came the first of 2 goals in 4 minutes, firstly Jan Bednarek smashed the ball home after ex Saint Angus Gunn in the Norwich goal parried Jack Stephens header, then came a well taken Adam Armstrong penalty to put us into the lead.
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But the lead would not last long and Sara silenced the Saints celebrations only 2 minutes later with a superb shot into the top corner.
So into the break at 2-2, well nearly, a corner in stoppage time saw Rowe completely unmarked and he placed his free header into the far corner, again abysmal marking and not a player near him but three men watching and marking fresh air.
But Saints were back on even terms before the hour mark with Che Adams scoring a well taken goal and you hoped at this stage we would go on to win the game, once again our defence was caught napping and unable to handle a fast attack on the break, a cross into the penalty area was not cleared and Fassnacht fired home to make it 4-3 with only 6 minutes left.
But the big plus point about this game was Saints didn't give up, they kept going and got the reward in the 7th minute of injury time, there should have been a penalty a second earlier for a shirt pull, which was far more blatant than the foul on Kyle Walker Peters, but the Saints fans weren't complaining and up stepped Adam Armstrong who again finished well from the spot with a confidence that to be honest James Ward Prowse never had from the spot.
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So a great game to watch, but very much one where 2 points were dropped, but as I said in the preview this was a game where we find ourself at the weakest we will be as a squad at any time this season, the sale of Lavia & JWP this week should hopefully see us able to buy and the first thing we need is a central defender, one with pace, one with organisational skills and a leader.
I didn't have to thing hard on this one, I have said pretty much the same thing for the last six years.
Some will say we need a striker, I don't think at the moment that is a priority, creating and scoring goals isn't a problem, we have 3 players who are proven scorers at this level, if we keep them all, then there isn't a problem, if we only sign one more player this month it has to be a central defender.
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The stats of the game are as has been the norm under Russell Martin, 70% possession saw us have 31 attempts of varying goal threat, 11 of them were on target of which 2 went in (penalties don't count) in contrast from their 30% of the play, they had 15 attempts , that is a reasonable ratio, so is the fact that they had 6 on target, but the fact that 4 of them went in is totally unacceptable, especially when you consider that 3 of the 4 were shocking defending.
We should be sat in the top 3 this morning, only Ipswich & Leicester have taken maximum points so far, instead we sit in 6th, one of 8 clubs with 4 points.
This is not a bad start given the position of upheaval we find ourself in at the moment, both in terms of transfer ins & outs, but also adapting to the new system, hopefully this will now start to improve on both counts, we will make several signings in the next couple of weeks that will improve us, if one of them is that leader and organiser in the back four we so desperately need then we should have no worries for the rest of the season, for now though we have to keep going .
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So in conclusion a satisfactory first two games of the season that see us unbeaten and well placed, but satisfactory is not good enough, Russell Martin knows he will be judged on getting Saints promoted, that means winning games and winning a lot of them.
It was good to see a full St Mary's and it was great support from all four sides of the ground, the crowd got behind the team and stayed with it, even when things weren't going our way.
Things are going to get better, only but when the transfer window closes will be the time we truly know where we stand and can then move forward with certainty.
Photo: Action Images
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Centurion added 11:01 - Aug 13
I do agree. I also think we need a new EXPERIENCED keep that has the confidence and know how to marshall the defence. A keeper who talks to the players. | ![](/images/avatars/0.gif) | |
landerwal added 11:22 - Aug 13
This was a game that I loved. Full blooded loads of shots on goal, each side wanting to win, great vocal support from everywhere in the ground. Our defense has to be better organised and a defending midfielder bought. But it was the player's fighting spirit the impressed me most. We were behind three times but came back each time and were pressing for win right up to the final whistle. As an aside, I wonder what odds one would have got for a double on successive 4-4 draws? | ![](/images/avatars/0.gif) | |
ElSanto added 11:25 - Aug 13
I always had faith in JWP when he was to take a penalty, in fairness. | ![](/images/avatars/0.gif) | |
underweststand added 11:28 - Aug 13
No-one can complain it wasn't an action-packed game, but only 4 goals ( 2 of those pens.) was a poor return from 31 shots, but that can hopefully be sorted on the training ground. Some good performances but a few others will need to show up a little more PDQ. Will be tough to find " another Prowsey ", but at least we have a new penalty-taker in A.A. Edozie and Amo-Ameyaw show a lot of skill but it remains to be seen how they fare after being kicked around the Championship for half-a-season. The back four will need to stabilise - especially if KWP leaves before September, but both Alcarez and Smallbone showed up well, and it remains to be seen who will comes in as a regular start name in midfield. (Downes ?..or A.N.OTHER), but can't see Stuart Armstrong playing 90+ minutes every week. Early season matches are no real guide to anything but interestingly, having already played Norwich ...we will play 3 of the current top 5 in the coming month. A few wins there will be a good indication of form, and a foundation for the rest of the season. | ![](/images/avatars/0.gif) | |
JoeEgg added 11:38 - Aug 13
"what was still there from last season was a lack of leadership and organisation in the centre of our defence," I think everyone agrees. As you rightly pointed out Nick, this is not the first time our main problems have been similarly identified. Didn't we try and solve this same problem earlier this year with a succession of 'BUYS'. Look at all those central defenders that were brought in. And where are all those 'buys' now?. Either already departed, about to depart or considered not good enough! I guess the easy part is to say we need to spend the transfer money wisely and bring it the players we need. Apart from Downes perhaps, have any of these much needed players been accurately identified? Russell Martin appears to be doing his best and deserves our support. His preferred team are showing excellent spîrit and are sticking to the task. Thats jusr leaves us looking for the 'missing' players, experience and leadership. And I dont envy anyone landed with that job! | ![](/images/avatars/0.gif) | |
Boris1977 added 12:16 - Aug 13
Spot on report Nick. Pleased for Armstrong putting those two pens away convincingly and really hope this opens the tap on scoring freely from open play. No point reiterating the desperate need for at least 1 solid CB. Admirable that the team want to play the passing game but they need to mix things up particularly when trying to pass their way out of trouble at the back. Felt edozie played within himself and wasn't as aggressive as he was against sheff weds. I can't view saints through neutral eyes so found the 90 minutes stressful rather than entertaining but with the addition of a proven CB I'll be able to enjoy football again rather than dreading every attack from the opposition. Early days 4 points is something we'd have been happy with after 2 games COYRs | ![](/images/avatars/0.gif) | |
kenchilds70 added 12:23 - Aug 13
In my opinion a new keeper, a new No6 and a 20 goal a season striker is a must. I think Downes loan was a sweetner for Wet Spam to get JWP on the cheap, so thats only filling the gap for one season.Smallbone has nott yet voiced his loyalty to the club so could be only a season from him. RM has a lot to do yet and hopefully fans give hime time.....more importantly the players show improvement over this latest performance. | ![](/images/avatars/0.gif) | |
saintmark1976 added 12:23 - Aug 13
We were lucky to get out of jail late on against an half decent Norwich team that I suspect will be in the shake up at seasons end. Bazunu was his usual self. In all the years I’ve supported the Saints I’ve never seen a keeper ( other than McCarthy of course ) who’s positional sense is so abject. Bazunu may have some attributes as a ball player out of defence but as a goalkeeper in the true sense of the word he is exceptionally poor in my opinion. Playing Manning in preference to Perraud appears to me an act of gross incompetence on the part of Russell Martin and can surely only be because of their previous connection at Swansea? Manning was dreadful yesterday culminating in gifting Norwich their fourth goal. As I’ve previously posted the question now is what Sports Republic intend to do with any transfer money received. If they spend it on some decent experienced players then I suspect that we will join Norwich in the shake up. If they use the funds toward balancing the books after last season’s transfer madness, with the squad as it is at presently constituted mid table mediocrity beckons. | ![](/images/avatars/0.gif) | |
Flamingbankers added 12:46 - Aug 13
Nick constantly harps on about an experienced centre back. yes, that would be brilliant but after 6 years, I can't see us buying somebody of Van Dyck's, or even Fonte's, calibre. Benarek's an experienced Polish international and Stephens is experienced and did a good job for Bournemouth last year. They really should be good enough. We're really not going to improve on that combination. It didn't help last year when the recruitment of three defenders was badly misjudged. I believe the manager should always choose his players and have the last word - it's just common sense. It should be his agenda to find HIS best team possible not made to cope with somebody else's purchases, not partly as possible investments for a year's time. I've always thought the club owner's haven't recruited enough quality, suitable players and successive managers have had to cope with this but failed. And there's the rub because none of the players really suit the manager's ideal system and therefore we spent/spend far too long trying to fit squarish pegs into roundish holes. A squad substantially composed of a bunch of inexperienced kids is going to fail the majority of the time in a cut-throat professional league. A good team needs stability hence consistency and confidence follow. So I've always seen the problem as unsuitable or mediocre players, throughout the team, struggling to adapt to systems they didn't really fit into. The midfield have always been the biggest problem for me, especially after releasing Romeu too early, and now especially as Lavia and JWP are being sold. Not tough enough, not dynamic enough, not creative enough, poor defensively. For me S Armstrong and Smallbone are too lightweight, whilst Charles is still very inexperienced. Hence any centre pairing are going to be horribly exposed and pulled hither and thither when your left and right backs are in nomansland. Saints still have these problems. to me, It's clear the exposure of the defence has to be addressed immediately before we can address all the other failings. | ![](/images/avatars/0.gif) | |
felly1 added 12:50 - Aug 13
I felt the biggest contribution towards us letting 4 goals in was playing no natural defensive midfielders . I'm not sure Charles is ready to be a mainstay in the team yet and we have to bring in a proper CDM to deal with this issue. Another CB with some more height , pace and power to play alongside the more ball playing Captain Stephens who suits Martin's possession based football would be great obviously, but I'm afraid if you watch the Championship highlights of the other teams its unlikely we'll do much better. Anyone truly decent is not going to plying there trade at this level. I thought first half we were rubbish all over the park, we couldn't pass for toffee and yet somehow scored twice. 2nd half we improved alot and Alceraz came alive and its was a brilliant game to watch with no poxy VAR ruining the game. I'm loving this league and I'd rather stay here for a few years and enjoy calamity strewn games of flowing ( no var) football. Talented but flawed players make fun games of football for me. | ![](/images/avatars/0.gif) | |
sidsaint added 13:04 - Aug 13
Good report Nick and thank you for the nice tribute to JWP, It looks like we may have found a new penalty taker in AA. | ![](/images/avatars/0.gif) | |
Dunstable_Saint added 13:08 - Aug 13
Only watched highlights of the game but after seeing the first two games of the season there is a common theme with the goals we are conceding. Our team are set up with the zonal marking which is leaving players completely unmarked … You can add as many quality central defenders as you like if they are told to play that way a decent ball will always result in a chance. This has to be a coaching approach. Got to change to man marking and at least challenging for the ball. There were lots of chance and goals at gillingham where either the player was unmarked or just match up players incorrectly in height… Surely RM and team can see this? On the plus side the attacking play is something else creating lots of chances we will score some big totals against teams this season. | ![](/images/avatars/0.gif) | |
landsdownsaint added 13:43 - Aug 13
I haven’t seen anything that I didn’t expect from a Russel Martin side , 2 games in and nothings changed defending & we had the luxury too bring on Che Adams who’d score for fun at this level .RM must’ve known with Tella Armstrong ,Alcaraz , Adams etc the problem won’t be up front .that may well be some of the worst defending positionslal wise we’ve ever seen at St Mary’s & im notsure RM has the ability to sort it out ,Swansea had the worst defence stats last season & it looks like it’s gonna continue here imho | ![](/images/avatars/0.gif) | |
mattlegod added 13:50 - Aug 13
Well it would see that RM's answer to the defensive issues is Downes, time will tell. I still cannot fathom out how a mistake prone defender can be given the captain's armband and as you say Nick, both Stephens and Bednarek seem to work well together. I am however in favour of Bednarek (even as Captain), but alongside a stronger, less lapsadasicle defender. I am starting to enjoy the way we play, it is also showing Martin has a clear method of approach (unlike jones.and selles) and the players are doing what he is asking of them. | ![](/images/avatars/0.gif) | |
Big_T added 14:14 - Aug 13
IMO a lot of our defensive woes come from our full backs , KWP just cannot defend and Manning was very poor. Whenever a cross goes deep from the left kwp is always behind his man putting zero pressure on the player. Obviously early days but we need , hopefully Bree to step up and push kwp or get someone else in . Peruad to me looks a better player than Manning at present, but Manning has more league experience so maybe just needs to fit in with his weak wing cover. Our young wingers do need to learn quickly to back up their full backs when defending. We know our CB need to get better together and build their confidence, this will make them better players but will the confidence build when they make mistakes and cost us goals ? On a plus note , we've got four points after a dreadful relegation season so that is a positive start. | ![](/images/avatars/0.gif) | |
davenbennett added 15:21 - Aug 13
Great come back and atmosphere. But 2 pts lost, for same old reasons. Norwich manager said he targeted lack of height in team and vulnerability from set pieces. Same old problem of slow build up, and being g caught on the counter attack. The slow build up means 10 men behind ball when we shoot. Rapid counter means the opposite. The transfer business has been poor. Should have told WH, give us Downes BEFORE Sat, and we won't play JWP. But JWP not played, even tho not WH player! Lavia, let's not beat about the bush, is on strike. Same as Gnoto at Leeds. SR just spinning it as 'his head's not right'. We also have money from sake if Tino, Salisu, Orsic, and C-C loan fee. But no signings, bar Manning. He's a massive downgrade. FBs could have been Tino and LB KWP. Just hope we can keep him. I am not that sure about Martin. But the team is playing for him. SR letting him down with slow transfer business. | ![](/images/avatars/11117.gif) | |
IanRC added 16:31 - Aug 13
Manning looks like a disastrous signing that does not bode well if that is the kind of player Martin is looking to sign, have to agree that Perraud must be a better starter. Not at all happy with this downgrading of the squad generally, even if we are promoted what sort of basis will we have to stay up. More effort should have been made to keep the likes of Salisu and to get Sulamana fit for the start f the season. Also the ridiculously cheap price for JWP is astonishing, particularly as the grossly over rated Rice was deemed to be worth more than £100m. 2 points lost due to poor defending, get it sorted out quickly SR otherwise it is going to be a very frustrating season. | ![](/images/avatars/0.gif) | |
Bowlercow added 17:05 - Aug 13
Their first goal came a about because Manning and Ndozie stood off and allowed the full back time to pin point his cross Added to that Baz was slow to track the flight of the ball The second was a good goal Our defence allowed an opponent to stand near the penalty spot totally unmarked That comes down to not having a loud organiser in thé back 4 Thie fourth goal was gifted by a school boy error by Manning which begs the question Is he really better than Perraud Not in my opinion | ![](/images/avatars/0.gif) | |
SanMarco added 21:08 - Aug 13
Yes - good report. We all know what we need - will we get it?? Let's hope so because with the centre of our defence as it is and with the loss of JWP we will not go up without adequate replacements. | ![](/images/avatars/0.gif) | |
bartley41 added 22:21 - Aug 13
Brin Clough said many years ago , it's the spine of the team that is most important part of the team , a sound Keeper, a solid Centre Back and driving Centre Forward. Please will S.R. take note! | ![](/images/avatars/0.gif) | |
ItchenNorth added 00:12 - Aug 14
We looked far more in control of the game (midfield) when Shea Charles came on and sat in. KWP is fine going forward but can not defend. Add to that Stevens and Bednarek and we need to strengthen our back four. Bazunu made a great save/block to keep us in touching distance midway in the 2nd. He had a solid game. Alcaraz was so close to winning it for us. He's going to score a few from outside the box this season. As long as we keep our positive attacking brand of football, we'll be fine. Attack as they say is the best form of defense. | ![](/images/avatars/6931.gif) | |
AgrellaSFC added 07:54 - Aug 14
Would like to see Edozie cutting in more and driving to the box rather than the corner flag just as Amo-Ameyaw did once coming on. Smallbone seems to be more adventurous than Prowsey with his passing trying a few diagonal threwballs, not all reaching their man but nice to see when most our possession seems to come from our dodgy back line. Hoping Charley starts finding the back of the nets, glad he's not scared of a dig from outside the area. Can see some quality goals coming from him. UTS | ![](/images/avatars/0.gif) | |
AgrellaSFC added 07:55 - Aug 14
Through balls** Monday mornings... | ![](/images/avatars/0.gif) | |
onetowatch added 10:04 - Aug 14
I was just happy to read the comments today, but reading the input from Big T, I had to add....Big T, were you at the game??? KWP, as always, put in another committed performance and, again, was a constant outlet and attacking option. I can't believe, as much as I'd like to, that he will be with us in Sept, unfortunately. Sorry, had to be said... Everyone has already noted our ongoing flaws in the CB position, and it's just a fact that with JB + JS in those 2 positions, we will not get out of this league... On a positive note, and contrary to some input above, I was very impress with Shea Charles, looks a real prospect - some point to his lack of experience....we're about to get over 50mln for a 19 yr old... | ![](/images/avatars/0.gif) | |
Big_T added 12:50 - Aug 14
@onetowatch Sorry I didn't realise kwp job was as an attacking wing outlet ! People used to attack Cedric for exactly the same failing that kwp has , He can't defend ! His positioning is woeful, he is great at getting forward and as an outlet ball it's just a shame he cannot defend a ball to the far post ( from left to right ) he is always late "behind" his man , did you not see Sargent move to the far post for an unmarked header , that was kwp's real job ! Did you not see Sara move out past Smallbone and Bednarak step back , kwp didn't move into Sara he moved away from Sara ( granted it was a great shot from the edge of the area , but he was under zero pressure from our CB and FB ) . So that was two goals lost but no he gets forward really well. Why do you think a relatively unknown 18 year old replaced him straight away in the first team ? We looked so much better with tino , because he could get forward but he also could defend. But as I put in my first post , just my opinion, but read some of the other posts , kwp can't defend is a common thread. | ![](/images/avatars/0.gif) | |
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