| Ollie post match 21:33 - Jul 29 with 7766 views | davman |
Caulker is one to two weeks away. WOW. Really???? Thought he was gone.
The additions likely to be loans.
He only wants to play one formation! How many did he play today?
It looked like we had Perch, Lynch, Furlong, Onouha and most bizarrely Goss playing Centre back today at some point.
I can see that team taking a few stuffings and winning the odd game 1-0. Still not confident... |  |
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| Ollie post match on 11:07 - Jul 31 with 1759 views | eghamranger |
Looks like Caulker is training with the others at HQ today. Not seen him for a while but it looks like him on the Snapchat thingy |  | | |
| Ollie post match on 11:49 - Jul 31 with 1704 views | simmo |
Surprised Caulker is back involved tbh, I hope he's not under any pressure to return, either from the club, his agent or himself. Overall though if we can't shift him and need to pay his wages, we should try and get him available to play if/when we need him.
As long as he's absolutely ready though, otherwise this is a pointless exercise that will only make things worse. |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Ollie post match on 12:10 - Jul 31 with 1658 views | daveB |
| Ollie post match on 10:53 - Jul 31 by bob566 |
what the f*** is with all the injuries. We've had our summer break and the squads crocked already.
No expert on these things but;
a) is it because of crap training facilities
b) just unlucky
c) crap medical team
d) something else? |
every club gets injuries no matter how good the medical team or facilities are |  | | |
| Ollie post match on 12:11 - Jul 31 with 1657 views | daveB |
| Ollie post match on 23:29 - Jul 30 by switchingcode |
Said that we done Brentford a favour as they are closer to Grenfell tower. |
i heard that, was obviously a bit confused | | | |
| Ollie post match on 14:21 - Jul 31 with 1576 views | switchingcode |
| Ollie post match on 12:11 - Jul 31 by daveB |
i heard that, was obviously a bit confused |
Was trying to work out what he was getting confused with,sadly I think he's unwell. |  | | |
| Ollie post match on 15:59 - Jul 31 with 1529 views | Dando |
Really hope we are not going to be wasting Pavel at wing back! Apart from Freeman, he is our only attacking threat, and the only one who can put in a decent cross, or dangerous ball. The only threat from Smith, and even Sylla are by putting balls into the box. With Pavel further back, we are limiting their chances even more.
Seen QPR waste so many quality players over the years, playing people out of position, whether it was Washington last year, or Vargas etc etc hopefully now not Pavel - at a time we really need to get the most out of our best players | | | |
| Ollie post match on 16:05 - Jul 31 with 1515 views | Northernr |
| Ollie post match on 15:59 - Jul 31 by Dando |
Really hope we are not going to be wasting Pavel at wing back! Apart from Freeman, he is our only attacking threat, and the only one who can put in a decent cross, or dangerous ball. The only threat from Smith, and even Sylla are by putting balls into the box. With Pavel further back, we are limiting their chances even more.
Seen QPR waste so many quality players over the years, playing people out of position, whether it was Washington last year, or Vargas etc etc hopefully now not Pavel - at a time we really need to get the most out of our best players |
On a more positive note, I await to be proven wrong but I think that could be Manning's best position. |  | | |
| Ollie post match on 16:23 - Jul 31 with 1474 views | Dando |
| Ollie post match on 16:05 - Jul 31 by Northernr |
On a more positive note, I await to be proven wrong but I think that could be Manning's best position. |
Agreed, although not seen him on that position regularly yet - he looks very comfortable. A good tackler, and uses the ball well too | | | |
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| Ollie post match on 16:35 - Jul 31 with 1453 views | simmo |
| Ollie post match on 15:59 - Jul 31 by Dando |
Really hope we are not going to be wasting Pavel at wing back! Apart from Freeman, he is our only attacking threat, and the only one who can put in a decent cross, or dangerous ball. The only threat from Smith, and even Sylla are by putting balls into the box. With Pavel further back, we are limiting their chances even more.
Seen QPR waste so many quality players over the years, playing people out of position, whether it was Washington last year, or Vargas etc etc hopefully now not Pavel - at a time we really need to get the most out of our best players |
Agree that having Wzsolek as WB limits what he's good at and as you say he's probably our best chance of creating goals beyond set pieces and Freeman. But you have to sacrifice something somewhere, if you play him as an advanced winger with 2 up top you lose a central midfielder, or you keep 3 in the middle and play 1 up top - which doesn't work with our choices and forces people like Washington back out wide.
If you look at all the ways we can play 2 strikers, wing backs is the best option to get the most out of everybody else IMO. It suits the CB's we have, the CM's we have and the Strikers. Plus against Bournemouth we still managed to work it wide and get crosses in quite well, we just need to work on varying delivery, including from deep, etc. | |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Ollie post match on 16:42 - Jul 31 with 1433 views | davman |
| Ollie post match on 16:35 - Jul 31 by simmo |
Agree that having Wzsolek as WB limits what he's good at and as you say he's probably our best chance of creating goals beyond set pieces and Freeman. But you have to sacrifice something somewhere, if you play him as an advanced winger with 2 up top you lose a central midfielder, or you keep 3 in the middle and play 1 up top - which doesn't work with our choices and forces people like Washington back out wide.
If you look at all the ways we can play 2 strikers, wing backs is the best option to get the most out of everybody else IMO. It suits the CB's we have, the CM's we have and the Strikers. Plus against Bournemouth we still managed to work it wide and get crosses in quite well, we just need to work on varying delivery, including from deep, etc. |
Yep, we are set up for playing one up top without anyone who can play up top alone...
The modern game appears to need three in the middle of the park and, with that, the only genuine way to get width and 2 up top is to use wing backs.
Going to be interesting to see how such a formation would cope with opposition doubling up on our wingbacks. Poor old Jakey wakey will need to grow a pair if he is not going to get all upset when big, nasty Joel Lynch starts shouting at him! | |
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| Ollie post match on 17:15 - Jul 31 with 1386 views | Dando |
| Ollie post match on 16:35 - Jul 31 by simmo |
Agree that having Wzsolek as WB limits what he's good at and as you say he's probably our best chance of creating goals beyond set pieces and Freeman. But you have to sacrifice something somewhere, if you play him as an advanced winger with 2 up top you lose a central midfielder, or you keep 3 in the middle and play 1 up top - which doesn't work with our choices and forces people like Washington back out wide.
If you look at all the ways we can play 2 strikers, wing backs is the best option to get the most out of everybody else IMO. It suits the CB's we have, the CM's we have and the Strikers. Plus against Bournemouth we still managed to work it wide and get crosses in quite well, we just need to work on varying delivery, including from deep, etc. |
I agree to some extent, and can see the argument for this. However, surely we are going to be more effective if we make use of our best players? We have quite a few options central midfield, yet in terms of creativity, we have very limited choice and not a lot of pace. Instead of long ball, and playing a flat style - I think Pavel brings much better delivery for the strikers. Washington, Smith and Sylla are all limited in terms of quality as it is, without starving them even further of a winger imo | | | |
| Ollie post match on 17:16 - Jul 31 with 1380 views | francisbowles |
I have to say that I don't think the 352 is our best option. I have concerns about Robinson (fitness), Bidwell good defender but looks lost as a wing back and Manning who looks comfortable but lack of pace getting back when our attack breaks down.
We are also struggling to get three fit and reliable centre backs at the moment.
I also feel Pav is a bit wasted there but he was against a top division team yesterday so he may grow into the role.
I would like to see a 4141 with Furlong and Bidwell (or Robinson) at full back, Onuoha +1 at cb, one of Ariel, Goss, Hall or even Perch holding. Pavel right, Manning left with two from Luongo, Scowen, Freeman and Ngbakoto in the middle. Sylla is the best option for a lone striker. | | | |
| Ollie post match on 18:05 - Jul 31 with 1330 views | Hunterhoop |
| Ollie post match on 17:16 - Jul 31 by francisbowles |
I have to say that I don't think the 352 is our best option. I have concerns about Robinson (fitness), Bidwell good defender but looks lost as a wing back and Manning who looks comfortable but lack of pace getting back when our attack breaks down.
We are also struggling to get three fit and reliable centre backs at the moment.
I also feel Pav is a bit wasted there but he was against a top division team yesterday so he may grow into the role.
I would like to see a 4141 with Furlong and Bidwell (or Robinson) at full back, Onuoha +1 at cb, one of Ariel, Goss, Hall or even Perch holding. Pavel right, Manning left with two from Luongo, Scowen, Freeman and Ngbakoto in the middle. Sylla is the best option for a lone striker. |
Whole heartedly agree. 352 too oftentimes becomes 532...narrow, defensive and stuck in our own half.
Agree with your combinations too. |  | | |
| Ollie post match on 19:20 - Jul 31 with 1275 views | loneranger1 |
| Ollie post match on 18:05 - Jul 31 by Hunterhoop |
Whole heartedly agree. 352 too oftentimes becomes 532...narrow, defensive and stuck in our own half.
Agree with your combinations too. |
I also reckon 4 1 4 1 is the best bet... though I recognise it might be a lot for Furlong to be first choice rb every week. Also not sure Yeni would have enough about him to be obe of he central midfielders - it would be interesting to see him play off Sylla, similar to when they were on on Sat... difficult to manage in 4 1 4 1 I know | | | |
| Ollie post match on 20:40 - Jul 31 with 1196 views | MedwayR |
I've been convinced since last season that if Ollie wants to have flexibility whilst also maximising the squad then he needs to base his formations on two banks of 4 which is easier to coach and tinker as suits; 4-1-4-1, 4-4-1-1 and 4-4-2.
GK: Smithies / Ingram / Lumley
RB: Furlong / Perch / Kakay
CB: Onouha / Phillips(?)
CB: Hall / Lynch
LB: Bidwell / Robinson / Hamalainen
DM: Scowen / Borysiuk
RW: Wzsolek / Petrasso / Mackie
CM: Cousins / Manning
CM: Luongo / Goss
LW: Freeman / Shodipo
AM: Ngbakoto / Eze
CF: Smith / ?
ST: Washington / Sylla [Post edited 31 Jul 2017 20:54]
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| Ollie post match on 20:41 - Jul 31 with 1196 views | BklynRanger |
I just watched it now. What an about turn on the formation! All kinds of shapes and formations when he came in and now it's going to be one way, doesn't care if it's predictable, we're going to get better and better at it etc etc. Isn't that 180 degrees different from before? How does he manage to say that with such candour and self-belief and get me to believe it all at the same time, and actually get excited about it? He's a genius. |  | | |
| Ollie post match on 21:03 - Jul 31 with 1155 views | davman |
| Ollie post match on 20:41 - Jul 31 by BklynRanger |
I just watched it now. What an about turn on the formation! All kinds of shapes and formations when he came in and now it's going to be one way, doesn't care if it's predictable, we're going to get better and better at it etc etc. Isn't that 180 degrees different from before? How does he manage to say that with such candour and self-belief and get me to believe it all at the same time, and actually get excited about it? He's a genius. |
At the risk of waking daveb up to say Ollie can't win either way, I'm worried that this could be to appease the crowd. He said in the same interview that the shape was the same throughout the game on Saturday; clearly it wasn't.
Still, all will be revealed over the next month. Forget the words; proof will be seeing us stick with it over the first few games. | |
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| Ollie post match on 21:18 - Jul 31 with 1126 views | BklynRanger |
| Ollie post match on 21:03 - Jul 31 by davman |
At the risk of waking daveb up to say Ollie can't win either way, I'm worried that this could be to appease the crowd. He said in the same interview that the shape was the same throughout the game on Saturday; clearly it wasn't.
Still, all will be revealed over the next month. Forget the words; proof will be seeing us stick with it over the first few games. |
Yeah fcuk knows if it will happen, it's just great to watch him in action. | | | |
| Ollie post match on 22:33 - Jul 31 with 1015 views | WestbourneR |
| Ollie post match on 16:05 - Jul 31 by Northernr |
On a more positive note, I await to be proven wrong but I think that could be Manning's best position. |
I think Manning is far too important a player for us in the middle of the pitch to be playing wing-back. I also think that we're much better off keeping it simple. Three at the back is a formation for top teams with tactically astute multi faceted players - not an opportunity for Ollie to fit square (with round edges perhaps) lower Championship pegs into square holes.
I have memory that Ollie got himself into tangle with very large but essentially unbalanced squads at Palace and Millwall.
What we have at Rangers is a huge number of midfielders (most of our best players are midfielders and many end up on the bench). Not much at the back. V weak at full-back. And light up-front.
And what we're crying out for is a CM who is a play-maker and can control tempo and possession.
And finally - Shodipo. I can't forgive him for ignoring Shodipo. The lad has x-factor - he needs to play.
In Ollie's defence, even if he doesn't rate someone, if they do get on the pitch and play well then he changes his mind. I hope that'll happen with Shodipo. |  |
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| Ollie post match on 22:39 - Jul 31 with 1008 views | davman |
| Ollie post match on 22:33 - Jul 31 by WestbourneR |
I think Manning is far too important a player for us in the middle of the pitch to be playing wing-back. I also think that we're much better off keeping it simple. Three at the back is a formation for top teams with tactically astute multi faceted players - not an opportunity for Ollie to fit square (with round edges perhaps) lower Championship pegs into square holes.
I have memory that Ollie got himself into tangle with very large but essentially unbalanced squads at Palace and Millwall.
What we have at Rangers is a huge number of midfielders (most of our best players are midfielders and many end up on the bench). Not much at the back. V weak at full-back. And light up-front.
And what we're crying out for is a CM who is a play-maker and can control tempo and possession.
And finally - Shodipo. I can't forgive him for ignoring Shodipo. The lad has x-factor - he needs to play.
In Ollie's defence, even if he doesn't rate someone, if they do get on the pitch and play well then he changes his mind. I hope that'll happen with Shodipo. |
Agree on Shodipo, but there is no place for him in a 352. 451 with Shodipo and Wsolek wide - that'd work... | |
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| Ollie post match on 23:01 - Jul 31 with 987 views | bob566 |
| Ollie post match on 22:33 - Jul 31 by WestbourneR |
I think Manning is far too important a player for us in the middle of the pitch to be playing wing-back. I also think that we're much better off keeping it simple. Three at the back is a formation for top teams with tactically astute multi faceted players - not an opportunity for Ollie to fit square (with round edges perhaps) lower Championship pegs into square holes.
I have memory that Ollie got himself into tangle with very large but essentially unbalanced squads at Palace and Millwall.
What we have at Rangers is a huge number of midfielders (most of our best players are midfielders and many end up on the bench). Not much at the back. V weak at full-back. And light up-front.
And what we're crying out for is a CM who is a play-maker and can control tempo and possession.
And finally - Shodipo. I can't forgive him for ignoring Shodipo. The lad has x-factor - he needs to play.
In Ollie's defence, even if he doesn't rate someone, if they do get on the pitch and play well then he changes his mind. I hope that'll happen with Shodipo. |
I'll be so miffed if manning gets dropped or moved to a different position. He was here before the other three and battled hard to get in the team. Sends out a terrible message to the youth of he's dropped. | | | |
| Ollie post match on 23:10 - Jul 31 with 981 views | daveB |
| Ollie post match on 22:33 - Jul 31 by WestbourneR |
I think Manning is far too important a player for us in the middle of the pitch to be playing wing-back. I also think that we're much better off keeping it simple. Three at the back is a formation for top teams with tactically astute multi faceted players - not an opportunity for Ollie to fit square (with round edges perhaps) lower Championship pegs into square holes.
I have memory that Ollie got himself into tangle with very large but essentially unbalanced squads at Palace and Millwall.
What we have at Rangers is a huge number of midfielders (most of our best players are midfielders and many end up on the bench). Not much at the back. V weak at full-back. And light up-front.
And what we're crying out for is a CM who is a play-maker and can control tempo and possession.
And finally - Shodipo. I can't forgive him for ignoring Shodipo. The lad has x-factor - he needs to play.
In Ollie's defence, even if he doesn't rate someone, if they do get on the pitch and play well then he changes his mind. I hope that'll happen with Shodipo. |
The only times we looked any good last season was when we played a back 3 with Hall moving into midfield when we had the ball. If that's the plan going forward then I think it's a good one, as soon as we stopped doing that and played different systems it all fell apart
Is quite amusing to see so many want to go back to the JFH 4-4-1-1 which didn't really work as we had very few players who could play the lone front man role as all of our forwards are better in a front two.
The key thing for Holloway is to get more goals and with our midfield and forwards he won't get more goals with one up front. He also needs to concede less and I think he'll struggle to do that with a flat back 4
I'd quite like to see Manning as a left wing back, I thought he looked decent in that position at the weekend, he has a good cross on him as well, pretty sure he was a winger until Holloway put him in the middle last season | | | |
| Ollie post match on 23:14 - Jul 31 with 971 views | Northernr |
| Ollie post match on 22:39 - Jul 31 by davman |
Agree on Shodipo, but there is no place for him in a 352. 451 with Shodipo and Wsolek wide - that'd work... |
Shodipo won't get picked regularly again while Holloway is here. I hope to be proven wrong. | | | |
| Ollie post match on 23:32 - Jul 31 with 936 views | Hunterhoop |
| Ollie post match on 23:10 - Jul 31 by daveB |
The only times we looked any good last season was when we played a back 3 with Hall moving into midfield when we had the ball. If that's the plan going forward then I think it's a good one, as soon as we stopped doing that and played different systems it all fell apart
Is quite amusing to see so many want to go back to the JFH 4-4-1-1 which didn't really work as we had very few players who could play the lone front man role as all of our forwards are better in a front two.
The key thing for Holloway is to get more goals and with our midfield and forwards he won't get more goals with one up front. He also needs to concede less and I think he'll struggle to do that with a flat back 4
I'd quite like to see Manning as a left wing back, I thought he looked decent in that position at the weekend, he has a good cross on him as well, pretty sure he was a winger until Holloway put him in the middle last season |
JFH did not play 4411. Not in my book. Not the way we're talking here, with width. We had no width under him. I spent the whole time moaning about it, as most of you know! In some games he had Cousins as the furthest "right sided" player. Washington spent all his time out on the left....or isolated up top. I remember it more as a narrow 433, with Cherry at the point of the triangle of the 3 midfielders. Often had Henry and Luongo behind/alongside, with Wash on the left of the front 3 and all manner of different players on the right of the front 3. As such we were extremely narrow as everyone in those front 6 wanted to play down the middle. | | | |
| Ollie post match on 23:36 - Jul 31 with 931 views | WestbourneR |
Overall I think could do with a smaller but higher quality squad. We seem to have bought lots and lots of players but very few stand out from the others. If you look at Burnley they have a small group but spend when they have to on a specific player for a specific position. We're scatter gun. | |
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