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Holloway stay or go on 15:21 - May 10 by paulparker
I think it goes to show how far we have fallen if people actually think Ramsey was a good choice or thought he was doing a good job as manager , he was awful and out of his depth
No better or worse than JFH or Holloway so far
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Holloway stay or go on 15:31 - May 10 with 1310 views
Holloway stay or go on 15:26 - May 10 by Rangersw12
No better or worse than JFH or Holloway so far
All true , and it goes to show how far we have fallen to think that the Ramsey tenure is starting to look like the good old days
And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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Holloway stay or go on 15:36 - May 10 with 1292 views
There's a lot of highlight around Holloway's recent failures but correct me if I'm wrong; hasn't he had major success in two championship promotions and a damn good effort in the Premiershite with Blackpool?
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Holloway stay or go on 15:37 - May 10 with 1286 views
There's a lot of highlight around Holloway's recent failures but correct me if I'm wrong; hasn't he had major success in two championship promotions and a damn good effort in the Premiershite with Blackpool?
Yeh it's the classic record to suit both sides - if you don't like him you point to Millwall and Leicester, and if you do you point to QPR and Blackpool with the Palace job split equally between the two. That achievement with Blackpool, with those players, with that chairman, should not be underestimated or stated.
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Holloway stay or go on 15:41 - May 10 with 1274 views
There's a lot of highlight around Holloway's recent failures but correct me if I'm wrong; hasn't he had major success in two championship promotions and a damn good effort in the Premiershite with Blackpool?
Howard Wilkinson won the First Division championship (before it was the Premier League) with Leeds. Don't suppose they would want him back, despite where they are now / have been for years.
Holloway stay or go on 14:42 - May 10 by R_from_afar
"Can only think someone like Kenny Jacket work with lower league players and able to make us difficult to beat".
Look, I wanted KJ instead of Ollie the last time we had a managerial vacancy but you know what will then happen, fans will moan that the football is boring and say that "all" they want is to be entertained. It will be the JFH scenario mark 2 and the revolving door will turn again....
What are we like? Sigh.........
There is an alternative ending to Ollie's second reign, though. It could be that all the experimenting and finding his feet in the dug-out as this season has slowly circled the plughole will actually enable him to take a more pragmatic, practical approach when the new campaign begins. He's tried some stuff and now has a few months to reflect on what worked and what didn't. That *might* mean we are more solid and assured when the next 48 game (two cup games, pop pickers) torture fest commences.
Or it might not
RFA
He "tried some stuff" at Millwall and Palarse. None of it worked. He's amassed 104 points from his last 100 Championship games. How many more games does he need to get it right? Since the last transfer window shut we've dropped from 17th to 18th, with no discernible improvement. In any other occupation how much faith would you put in someone who under-performed in his previous two jobs and is doing it again in the current one?
100% of people who drink water will die.
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Holloway stay or go on 15:44 - May 10 with 1268 views
I voted 'no idea' in the poll. Genuinely, I've no idea where QPR go from here.
On the one hand, clearly things are not currently working out and IH and Bircham are making increasingly alarming noises. And let's be honest, who doesn't enjoy the intrigue and promise in the early stages with a new manager, when we can all convince each other that this time it's going to work out.
But on the other, new-manager fatigue is setting in, and even those short-lived delusions are probably a thing of the past. And let's be honest, without knowing who the new manager would be, how can we say "he has to go" - and be replaced by who? It makes a big difference, and we probably shouldn't be calling for Holloway's (hollow) head without a replacement in mind.
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Holloway stay or go on 15:46 - May 10 with 1259 views
The difference as I see it between previous managers and Holloway (as things stand), is that Ramsey and JFH were both fulfilling the remit they were brought in on but were sacked anyway.
Ramsey - Promote youth, improve existing assets and purchases made with potential in mind and keep us in the championship whilst we start to move towards self sustainability.
JFH - Consolidate our place in the Championship, improve what we have without big money signings and give us a footing to push towards the play-offs in the coming seasons whilst we reduce the wage bill
Ollie - Work with what we have to 'rub off on them' and improve the team and playing style we saw under JFH. Work to remove those not motivated to be at QPR for the right reasons and head towards the goal of play-offs.
I am not saying the latter may not still happen for Ollie, but he's already failed in his initial remit and is talking about trading his way out of trouble - that's not what he was supposed to be doing.
I don't want to seem to be advocating for a new manager as I don't think another new name will solve all our issues and I want him to succeed over any others, but we have to address the blatant under-performance under his tenure and the fact he doesn't know his best team, his preferred system or his preferred way of playing using the current squad and that he almost got us relegated from a position of comfort.
Howard Wilkinson won the First Division championship (before it was the Premier League) with Leeds. Don't suppose they would want him back, despite where they are now / have been for years.
[Post edited 10 May 2017 15:42]
That's hardly relevant is it given the timeframe?
You can give Holloway credit for a superb performance at Blackpool without advocating exhuming Howard Kendall surely?
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Holloway stay or go on 15:52 - May 10 with 1243 views
The difference as I see it between previous managers and Holloway (as things stand), is that Ramsey and JFH were both fulfilling the remit they were brought in on but were sacked anyway.
Ramsey - Promote youth, improve existing assets and purchases made with potential in mind and keep us in the championship whilst we start to move towards self sustainability.
JFH - Consolidate our place in the Championship, improve what we have without big money signings and give us a footing to push towards the play-offs in the coming seasons whilst we reduce the wage bill
Ollie - Work with what we have to 'rub off on them' and improve the team and playing style we saw under JFH. Work to remove those not motivated to be at QPR for the right reasons and head towards the goal of play-offs.
I am not saying the latter may not still happen for Ollie, but he's already failed in his initial remit and is talking about trading his way out of trouble - that's not what he was supposed to be doing.
I don't want to seem to be advocating for a new manager as I don't think another new name will solve all our issues and I want him to succeed over any others, but we have to address the blatant under-performance under his tenure and the fact he doesn't know his best team, his preferred system or his preferred way of playing using the current squad and that he almost got us relegated from a position of comfort.
[Post edited 10 May 2017 15:54]
yeah fair point
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Holloway stay or go on 15:54 - May 10 with 1232 views
The difference as I see it between previous managers and Holloway (as things stand), is that Ramsey and JFH were both fulfilling the remit they were brought in on but were sacked anyway.
Ramsey - Promote youth, improve existing assets and purchases made with potential in mind and keep us in the championship whilst we start to move towards self sustainability.
JFH - Consolidate our place in the Championship, improve what we have without big money signings and give us a footing to push towards the play-offs in the coming seasons whilst we reduce the wage bill
Ollie - Work with what we have to 'rub off on them' and improve the team and playing style we saw under JFH. Work to remove those not motivated to be at QPR for the right reasons and head towards the goal of play-offs.
I am not saying the latter may not still happen for Ollie, but he's already failed in his initial remit and is talking about trading his way out of trouble - that's not what he was supposed to be doing.
I don't want to seem to be advocating for a new manager as I don't think another new name will solve all our issues and I want him to succeed over any others, but we have to address the blatant under-performance under his tenure and the fact he doesn't know his best team, his preferred system or his preferred way of playing using the current squad and that he almost got us relegated from a position of comfort.
[Post edited 10 May 2017 15:54]
The other difference seems to be that previously it was the DOF driving the vision, and now it's the manager with Ferdinand seemingly reduced to simply doing the deals and swatting off the agents of the players Holloway wants and Penrice recommends. That'll make a lot of Les-critics very happy but it's not what the DOF role is meant to be for, and it basically abandons a lot of very tough work we went through over the previous 18 months.
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Holloway stay or go on 15:56 - May 10 with 1227 views
Holloway stay or go on 15:54 - May 10 by Northernr
The other difference seems to be that previously it was the DOF driving the vision, and now it's the manager with Ferdinand seemingly reduced to simply doing the deals and swatting off the agents of the players Holloway wants and Penrice recommends. That'll make a lot of Les-critics very happy but it's not what the DOF role is meant to be for, and it basically abandons a lot of very tough work we went through over the previous 18 months.
previously it was the DOF driving the vision, and now it's the manager
How do you mean?
Edit: Unless you're referring to IH's talk about needing two transfer windows to get things straight, in which case I get what you mean -assuming that's not been agreed with LF
[Post edited 10 May 2017 16:03]
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Holloway stay or go on 16:07 - May 10 with 1195 views
previously it was the DOF driving the vision, and now it's the manager
How do you mean?
Edit: Unless you're referring to IH's talk about needing two transfer windows to get things straight, in which case I get what you mean -assuming that's not been agreed with LF
[Post edited 10 May 2017 16:03]
Well we brought in Ferdinand to stop what was going on before, which was basically the manager running around with Fernandes' credit card making one short term signing after another at huge expense, with no real thought of what it all meant further than six games down the track or how much it was costing or the financial position it was leaving the club in. Managers have such a short lifespan at clubs now you're never going to find one who doesn't want to make another three signings right now, nor will those signings be made with anything other than the next half a dozen games in mind, nor do they have any interest in giving a youth prospect a run of games.
We then switched to a much eneded system with a DOF in place as a long term appointment to, among other things, oversee a more structured squad building. This has been very, very tough because we've lost a lot of good players out of the side in a short period of time, which we had to do because of how much they were costing. But the plan Ramsey and JFH had to work to was younger players, youth team players, European players, lower league players. Manager wants a right back, everybody works together to find a right back within that plan and budget. Frankly, whether you think that was working or not, whether you think Les is any good or not, that is the way all football clubs should operate these days.
Now it seems it's back to the manager demanding more blood - six in Jan, who knows what this summer but likely six again, and already talking about next January as well - which is all being recommended by the manager's appointment at chief scout. Les will continue to do important bits - negotiating contracts within our budget, fending off agents, the academy, hopefully the new training ground and what not - but the most vital bit of his role, keeping the manager under control and overseeing the scouting and recruitment, seems to be getting ditched in favour of, once again, letting a manager in fear of his job try to dig his way out of problems by making another half a dozen signings.
This post has been edited by an administrator
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Holloway stay or go on 16:17 - May 10 with 1163 views
The difference as I see it between previous managers and Holloway (as things stand), is that Ramsey and JFH were both fulfilling the remit they were brought in on but were sacked anyway.
Ramsey - Promote youth, improve existing assets and purchases made with potential in mind and keep us in the championship whilst we start to move towards self sustainability.
JFH - Consolidate our place in the Championship, improve what we have without big money signings and give us a footing to push towards the play-offs in the coming seasons whilst we reduce the wage bill
Ollie - Work with what we have to 'rub off on them' and improve the team and playing style we saw under JFH. Work to remove those not motivated to be at QPR for the right reasons and head towards the goal of play-offs.
I am not saying the latter may not still happen for Ollie, but he's already failed in his initial remit and is talking about trading his way out of trouble - that's not what he was supposed to be doing.
I don't want to seem to be advocating for a new manager as I don't think another new name will solve all our issues and I want him to succeed over any others, but we have to address the blatant under-performance under his tenure and the fact he doesn't know his best team, his preferred system or his preferred way of playing using the current squad and that he almost got us relegated from a position of comfort.
[Post edited 10 May 2017 15:54]
If memory serves me correctly, Ramsey was fulfilling his remit right up to the point when Twitter Tony declared that "promotion is everything".
100% of people who drink water will die.
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Holloway stay or go on 16:49 - May 10 with 1107 views
Holloway stay or go on 15:52 - May 10 by Northernr
That's hardly relevant is it given the timeframe?
You can give Holloway credit for a superb performance at Blackpool without advocating exhuming Howard Kendall surely?
Perhaps not, I was being flippant. But the point, I guess, is that what's going on here isn't a recent phenomenon. He's had a poor record here, was poor at Millwall and at Palace before that (despite the promotion). Yes, Blackpool was unbelievable but it's the direction of travel since.
Holloway stay or go on 16:07 - May 10 by Northernr
Well we brought in Ferdinand to stop what was going on before, which was basically the manager running around with Fernandes' credit card making one short term signing after another at huge expense, with no real thought of what it all meant further than six games down the track or how much it was costing or the financial position it was leaving the club in. Managers have such a short lifespan at clubs now you're never going to find one who doesn't want to make another three signings right now, nor will those signings be made with anything other than the next half a dozen games in mind, nor do they have any interest in giving a youth prospect a run of games.
We then switched to a much eneded system with a DOF in place as a long term appointment to, among other things, oversee a more structured squad building. This has been very, very tough because we've lost a lot of good players out of the side in a short period of time, which we had to do because of how much they were costing. But the plan Ramsey and JFH had to work to was younger players, youth team players, European players, lower league players. Manager wants a right back, everybody works together to find a right back within that plan and budget. Frankly, whether you think that was working or not, whether you think Les is any good or not, that is the way all football clubs should operate these days.
Now it seems it's back to the manager demanding more blood - six in Jan, who knows what this summer but likely six again, and already talking about next January as well - which is all being recommended by the manager's appointment at chief scout. Les will continue to do important bits - negotiating contracts within our budget, fending off agents, the academy, hopefully the new training ground and what not - but the most vital bit of his role, keeping the manager under control and overseeing the scouting and recruitment, seems to be getting ditched in favour of, once again, letting a manager in fear of his job try to dig his way out of problems by making another half a dozen signings.
This post has been edited by an administrator
But the new signings IH talks about could be within the budget. Nothing wrong with that surely? As i said in another thread whats the point of appointing Penrice if we're not looking at getting good quality players at the right price.
Occasional providers of half decent House music.
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Holloway stay or go on 17:32 - May 10 with 1064 views
Somewhat pointless question for those of us who think Bungle should never have sacked NW in the first place.
But if you make a decision based purely on performance after QPR, then Hughes has had the most success having steered Stoke to 9th place in the Premiership for 4 seasons running. CR never got a fair crack at the job and TF moved the goal posts. JFH was a successful League 1 manager before he came here and I'm sure he'll be successful again (at Crawley or wherever he ends up). Teflon 'Arry should not be allowed within a 100 miles of club, but no doubt he'll manage to get Birmingham finishing ahead of us if IH remains in charge here. IH is not getting the job done.
100% of people who drink water will die.
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Holloway stay or go on 17:34 - May 10 with 1059 views
But the new signings IH talks about could be within the budget. Nothing wrong with that surely? As i said in another thread whats the point of appointing Penrice if we're not looking at getting good quality players at the right price.
Not at all, hope it works, but I thought (hoped) we'd moved away from the idea that the manager is allowed to sign what he wants, when he wants, to cover whatever perceived need he has at that time - even if it is under the budget.
When you do that and change managers as often as we do, you end up with a squad made up of layers and layers of six players signed to paper over whatever crack whoever the manager perceived to exist in each window, rather than something built under a coherent plan.
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Holloway stay or go on 17:43 - May 10 with 1046 views
But the new signings IH talks about could be within the budget. Nothing wrong with that surely? As i said in another thread whats the point of appointing Penrice if we're not looking at getting good quality players at the right price.
What makes you think IH's signings would make things better? Even with the benefit of one transfer window already, only 3 teams subsequently picked up less points than us.
[Post edited 10 May 2017 17:46]
100% of people who drink water will die.
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Holloway stay or go on 17:55 - May 10 with 1033 views
Holloway stay or go on 17:43 - May 10 by SimonJames
What makes you think IH's signings would make things better? Even with the benefit of one transfer window already, only 3 teams subsequently picked up less points than us.
[Post edited 10 May 2017 17:46]
Because they will now be players who Penrice has scouted, who i read is quite good at this sort of thing. Dont get me wrong, i'm not sure Holloway is the one to take us into next season i'm just trying to see the logic of Holloways statement of needing 2 transfer windows to get things right. I think we are all in agreement that this team is not the one to take us back up to the premier league and beyond.
Occasional providers of half decent House music.
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Holloway stay or go on 18:12 - May 10 with 1015 views
Because they will now be players who Penrice has scouted, who i read is quite good at this sort of thing. Dont get me wrong, i'm not sure Holloway is the one to take us into next season i'm just trying to see the logic of Holloways statement of needing 2 transfer windows to get things right. I think we are all in agreement that this team is not the one to take us back up to the premier league and beyond.
Even a good scout has to understand the playing system and style that they are recruiting for. Does anyone think IH has figured out what that is yet?
100% of people who drink water will die.
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Holloway stay or go on 18:14 - May 10 with 1012 views
Because they will now be players who Penrice has scouted, who i read is quite good at this sort of thing. Dont get me wrong, i'm not sure Holloway is the one to take us into next season i'm just trying to see the logic of Holloways statement of needing 2 transfer windows to get things right. I think we are all in agreement that this team is not the one to take us back up to the premier league and beyond.
My problem isn't really whether Penrice is any good (some success, some failures, pretty standard record on the face of it), it's the fact that he's clearly a Holloway appointment and he's Holloway's mate, which suggests we're going back to the model of the manager and his brethren picking and choosing the signings to suit them and their short term needs, away from the DOF having a say and making sure they're actually good signings for the club long term.
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Holloway stay or go on 18:20 - May 10 with 999 views
IH getting Freeman for 10 shilling and a bag of nuts has to be one of the best signing in a few years and he has done before with the likes or Rowlings and Cook and a few others Yeah plenty of dross too but that's the same with most of our managers.
Holloway stay or go on 18:14 - May 10 by Northernr
My problem isn't really whether Penrice is any good (some success, some failures, pretty standard record on the face of it), it's the fact that he's clearly a Holloway appointment and he's Holloway's mate, which suggests we're going back to the model of the manager and his brethren picking and choosing the signings to suit them and their short term needs, away from the DOF having a say and making sure they're actually good signings for the club long term.
I think as long as Holloway sticks to the budget and is signing for want of a better phrase, the right sort then I don't have a problem with it. Managers should have a big say in who we bring in. If we go back to spend whatever the manager wants and then repeat when the new one comes in then I give up
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