| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide 13:28 - Nov 7 with 26028 views | Yossarian |
Just being reported by BBC Wales political correspondent Nick Servini that Carl Sergeant has committed suicide after being sacked following allegations of misconduct by various women. Very sad. |  |
| "Yossarian- the very sight of the name made him shudder.There were so many esses in it. It just had to be subversive" (Catch 22) |
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| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide on 22:23 - Nov 11 with 4642 views | exiledclaseboy |
I’m not touching the Sargeant/Jones stuff. There’s a grieving family and some potential victims to consider so let’s not do politics on that.
On the Corbyn stuff, Labour did far better than anyone expected in June. Confounded everyone’s expectations including my own. Since then the government has lurched from disaster to catastrophe. It’s generally accepted that May is incompetent and her government has no clue what it’s doing. Labour should be streets ahead. But it isn’t. |  |
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| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide (n/t) on 08:26 - Nov 12 with 4582 views | nice_to_michu |
| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide on 08:42 - Nov 11 by Brynmill_Jack |
Firstly - given the fact that the Labour movement has a huge part of its roots in Wales (and in South Wales in particular) and that the Tories were originally predicted to landlside this last election is it any wonder that Welsh Labour did (marginally) better in Wales than the national party did in England? That's a ridiculous statement to make I'm sorry.
Secondly I'm a massive fan of democracy. You're an intelligent and articulate poster and you won't need me to tell you that the word derives from the Greek words Δήμος (people) and ΚÏάτος (power) so when Ed Miliband changed the system for electing future Labour leaders to the membership it was a true democratic move.
The people have elected Jeremy Corbyn because his policies , long sidelined by a centrist neo conservative party policies and outside interests are actually what we the people want.
Carwyn Jones for his own reasons deliberately set out to distance himself from Corbyn during the UK general election campaign and in my opinion damaged the party's chances of gaining power (or at least of gaining a few more seats to force the conservatives into an even more minority government than they are now).
My problem with this is that it wasn't really anything to do with the WA labour group (or their tinpot dictator of a leader) and it was just another bit of self important ego indulgence from Carwyn Jones.
There is no such thing as Welsh Labour. It's all Labour. The party has never been segregated on National lines and never will be. He stepped WAY out of line.
I sincerely hope this matter has damaged his reputation irreparably . Pride comes before a fall and Karma seems to be coming back to Carwyn to give him his just deserts.
Your defence of Carwyn Jones leads me to believe that you are more neo con than socialist. Say it isn't so! |
[Post edited 15 Nov 2017 12:09]
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| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide on 08:38 - Nov 12 with 4576 views | exiledclaseboy |
Anyone remember the days when Welsh Labour was considered to be a bit more “left” than the national party. Right about the time that Blair tried to impose Alun Michael as first minister and Welsh Labour had none of it and insisted on Rhodri Morgan. [Post edited 12 Nov 2017 8:38]
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| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide (n/t) on 13:44 - Nov 12 with 4516 views | nice_to_michu |
| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide on 08:38 - Nov 12 by exiledclaseboy |
Anyone remember the days when Welsh Labour was considered to be a bit more “left” than the national party. Right about the time that Blair tried to impose Alun Michael as first minister and Welsh Labour had none of it and insisted on Rhodri Morgan. [Post edited 12 Nov 2017 8:38]
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[Post edited 15 Nov 2017 12:09]
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| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide on 16:57 - Nov 13 with 4438 views | trampie |
| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide on 16:42 - Nov 11 by trampie |
You have voted Plaid, I thought you said Plaid was a wasted vote ?, how does that work then ?
Was the lovely Leanne leader at the time ? |
Bump, I'd be interested to see why Bryn voted Plaid and when ? |  |
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| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide on 22:21 - Nov 13 with 4376 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide on 16:57 - Nov 13 by trampie |
Bump, I'd be interested to see why Bryn voted Plaid and when ? |
It was in the nineties Trampie and by f*ck was it a wasted vote. |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide on 22:47 - Nov 13 with 4367 views | trampie |
| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide on 22:21 - Nov 13 by Brynmill_Jack |
It was in the nineties Trampie and by f*ck was it a wasted vote. |
Your vote is not wanted as far as I'm concerned, you are a red Tory, clearly a capitalist, unionist, I would not want you voting for the home team. | |
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| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide on 23:04 - Nov 13 with 4350 views | Lohengrin |
| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide on 22:47 - Nov 13 by trampie |
Your vote is not wanted as far as I'm concerned, you are a red Tory, clearly a capitalist, unionist, I would not want you voting for the home team. |
Red Star Belgrade?  |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide on 11:46 - Nov 14 with 4297 views | acejack3065 |
| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide on 22:47 - Nov 13 by trampie |
Your vote is not wanted as far as I'm concerned, you are a red Tory, clearly a capitalist, unionist, I would not want you voting for the home team. |
But is he still allowed to drink Cwrw Braf and Felinfoel? |  | | |
| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide on 12:39 - Nov 14 with 4279 views | Joe_bradshaw |
I wouldn't have thought Plaid are in a position to turn down votes.
They don't get many. |  |
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| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide on 12:42 - Nov 14 with 4275 views | trampie |
| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide on 11:46 - Nov 14 by acejack3065 |
But is he still allowed to drink Cwrw Braf and Felinfoel? |
Does he even drink beer ? | |
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| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide on 14:03 - Nov 14 with 4242 views | swanforthemoney |
| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide on 20:24 - Nov 11 by acejack3065 |
That first sentence is total bunk. Regardless of predictions labour did better in Wales than in England. Only a crank could conclude that the results were in spite of Welsh labour and not in conjunction with the efforts put in.
If you’re a fan of democracy why are you advocating the facist removal of a democratically elected leader?
In case you hadn’t noticed, Labour were the second biggest party after the general election and a long way off winning. FYI labour could’ve won all the seats in wales and the Tories would still be in power so don’t try and create some ludicrous conspiracy like the rest of the cyber Corbyn nutters.
Like it or not there is such a thing as Welsh Labour. The group in the assembly have he actual responsibility of governing. Before Corbyn started promising the world there used to be “clear red water” between us and the party in England. The idea that the Welsh party is full of traitorous blairutes is only 2 years old.
Grow up and get some perspective. You’re a sensible guy. |
"Like it or not there is such a thing as Welsh Labour. The group in the assembly have he actual responsibility of governing. Before Corbyn started promising the world there used to be “clear red water” between us and the party in England. The idea that the Welsh party is full of traitorous blairutes is only 2 years old. "
As a labour voter, but not a member; Im confused by the concept of Welsh Labour. And where the responsibility lies in the case of politics in Wales. Any chance of helping me out ?
1) Can I join Welsh Labour, but not the main UK Labour Party? I dont want to join the Labour Party as such.
2) Does Welsh Labour have its own manifesto for the Westminster elections, or does it follow that of the UK Labour Party?
3) Does welsh Labour have its own officers for disciplinary matters and the like
3A) If Geraint Davies, my MP, was to do something naughty would he be disciplined by the UK Labour apparatus, or that of Welsh Labour ?
4) DOes the main Party have any input into the manifesto for Assembly elections, or is it left to the Welsh Labour to do that.
5) Is it Welsh Labour or UK Labour who are responsible for looking in to the allegations against Sargeant?
Thanks in anticipation |  |
| I stand in the North Stand
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| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide on 14:30 - Nov 14 with 4231 views | acejack3065 |
| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide on 14:03 - Nov 14 by swanforthemoney |
"Like it or not there is such a thing as Welsh Labour. The group in the assembly have he actual responsibility of governing. Before Corbyn started promising the world there used to be “clear red water” between us and the party in England. The idea that the Welsh party is full of traitorous blairutes is only 2 years old. "
As a labour voter, but not a member; Im confused by the concept of Welsh Labour. And where the responsibility lies in the case of politics in Wales. Any chance of helping me out ?
1) Can I join Welsh Labour, but not the main UK Labour Party? I dont want to join the Labour Party as such.
2) Does Welsh Labour have its own manifesto for the Westminster elections, or does it follow that of the UK Labour Party?
3) Does welsh Labour have its own officers for disciplinary matters and the like
3A) If Geraint Davies, my MP, was to do something naughty would he be disciplined by the UK Labour apparatus, or that of Welsh Labour ?
4) DOes the main Party have any input into the manifesto for Assembly elections, or is it left to the Welsh Labour to do that.
5) Is it Welsh Labour or UK Labour who are responsible for looking in to the allegations against Sargeant?
Thanks in anticipation |
not gonna be able to give you 100% answers on these so I'll dust off the A level politics and try and pick through.
1) No you cannot be a member of just Welsh Labour. They are in effect one party as Welsh Labour is not separately registered with the electoral commission. However party structure is divided so "Welsh Labour" has autonomy over its own policy development, governance structure, and selection process.
2) Yes Welsh Labour has a separate welsh manifesto for Welsh elections, this is to allow for Welsh Labour to set their own policy with regards to devolved matters.
3) depends what you mean. Every labour council will have a group whip to deal with discipline, the same as every other political party with elected representatives. Membership disputes, i have no idea to be honest. I dont know how membership discipline works , apart from it usually takes ages and is dealt with by a load of committees.
3a) Depends what he did I think. Again, not really sure but as an MP i think he's most likely be dealt with by the Parliamentary Labour Party. Not really sure if I'm honest.
4) I don't think the UK party does tbh. I think the Welsh Assembly mannifesto stuff is usually covered by the assembly group, welsh constituency parties and Welsh conference.
5) I don't know sorry. There is an independent inquest now so its hopefully out of the hands of party apparatus.
All my answers could be wrong mind you. I'm not a rule book expert or anything like that, just a semi active local branch member. | | | |
| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide on 14:58 - Nov 14 with 4213 views | trampie |
The Labour party is a complete shambles. | |
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| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide on 15:35 - Nov 26 with 1513 views | Catullus |
| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide on 22:47 - Nov 13 by trampie |
Your vote is not wanted as far as I'm concerned, you are a red Tory, clearly a capitalist, unionist, I would not want you voting for the home team. |
So somebody isn't allowed to change their mind? Not allowed to be a unionist either and vote for your lot.
It's quite dictatorial and I'm sure Ms Wood would have disagreed with that stance, Mr Price, well I'm sure he'd welcome any new votes too. They can't afford to be so closed minded. |  |
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| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide on 16:20 - Nov 26 with 1497 views | trampie |
I wasn't talking about them. | |
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| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide on 18:32 - Nov 26 with 1441 views | Darran |
His letter sounds like an admission of guilt. |  |
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| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide on 18:35 - Nov 26 with 1434 views | trampie |
| Carl Sergeant apparently commits suicide on 18:32 - Nov 26 by Darran |
His letter sounds like an admission of guilt. |
Oh what a shock, who would have thought that hey ? 
Lots of people on this board are like two planks of wood. | |
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