| James McClean. Thoughts on 16:24 - Jul 21 with 2345 views | Mvpeter |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 14:01 - Jul 21 by Antti_Heinola |
'Having a blacket disrespect for anything English is hatred of the English'
How do you know he's got a blanket disrespect for 'anything English'? Why does disrespect equal hatred? I disrespect you, but I don't hate you. I disrespect Farage, but I don't hate him. i disrespect the Royal bloody Family, but I don't hate them. |
Because he continuously does these things against things that are English despite those things having nothing to do with his alleged objection and instead just being English.
Hatred is simply the extension of disrespect. Continuous displays of ACTIVE disrespect of people is hatred IMO.
Such a polite reasonable person aren't you? |  |
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| James McClean. Thoughts on 16:34 - Jul 21 with 2334 views | Watford_Ranger |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 16:24 - Jul 21 by Mvpeter |
Because he continuously does these things against things that are English despite those things having nothing to do with his alleged objection and instead just being English.
Hatred is simply the extension of disrespect. Continuous displays of ACTIVE disrespect of people is hatred IMO.
Such a polite reasonable person aren't you? |
What's active about it? By doing absolutely nothing surely it's the most inactive disrespect possible. | | | |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 16:41 - Jul 21 with 2320 views | Mvpeter |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 16:34 - Jul 21 by Watford_Ranger |
What's active about it? By doing absolutely nothing surely it's the most inactive disrespect possible. |
Doing nothing can be an action.
Going limp is a form of peaceful protest. Refusing to leave your house after foreclosure is active defiance of the banks/whoever. Standing still at the top of the escalators is an active disruption of the flow of pedestrians.
He had to move one foot and didn't. He had to turn down the poppy each time.
The level of activity is quite irrelevant it is the level of dissent that determines the respect shown. | |
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| James McClean. Thoughts on 16:46 - Jul 21 with 2306 views | Watford_Ranger |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 16:41 - Jul 21 by Mvpeter |
Doing nothing can be an action.
Going limp is a form of peaceful protest. Refusing to leave your house after foreclosure is active defiance of the banks/whoever. Standing still at the top of the escalators is an active disruption of the flow of pedestrians.
He had to move one foot and didn't. He had to turn down the poppy each time.
The level of activity is quite irrelevant it is the level of dissent that determines the respect shown. |
I don't disagree, but you seemed to need to CAPS LOCK the opinion his protest is an active one when it seems to be the complete opposite. He's doing his normal job while everyone else does things that aren't the norm. Can't he just be left to get on with it? Is it really worth all this frothing at the mouth? | | | |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 16:59 - Jul 21 with 2289 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 13:38 - Jul 21 by Mvpeter |
Your post was filled with them and there is a big difference between government intervention and private individuals enforcing terms upon each other through contract.
Pulis is the manager and has the power and can dictate whether or not his charges are disrespectful to their employers.
Having a blacket disrespect for anything English is hatred of the English. If his focus were on institutions directly focused on the Troubles then that is one thing but this is not the case. Anything English is disrespected for being English.
Actions can be objectively described as disrespectful. This is an easily demonstrable fact.
Here's the strawman again, as has been stressed many many many times by half a dozen posters nobody has argued that he doesn't have the right to do this, nobody has argued that this should be legislated against but they are arguing that he is a disrespectful t**t, that they do not want him signed by us ever and that he is a complete hypocrite. You seem to wish to deny that freedom. |
Well as I've explained if you think he's being disrespectful that's up to you and your view of the world, but IT IS A SUBJECTIVE ONE.
The further idea that you have emphasised in later posts that this perceived disrespect of yours equates to hatred of a nation is the sort of frothy mouthed nonsense that the world could really do without.
What's really going on here is your inability to deal with your extremely strong emotional response to how your belief structures have decided to perceive someone else's minor actions. |  | | |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 17:00 - Jul 21 with 2293 views | Mvpeter |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 16:46 - Jul 21 by Watford_Ranger |
I don't disagree, but you seemed to need to CAPS LOCK the opinion his protest is an active one when it seems to be the complete opposite. He's doing his normal job while everyone else does things that aren't the norm. Can't he just be left to get on with it? Is it really worth all this frothing at the mouth? |
I'm not frothing at the mouth mate. Just think he's a t**t like a lot of people and as I've no doubt mentioned I'm of Irish descent so I'm not being biased except maybe I'm too used to these attitudes.
I would much rather we all just got on with it rather than being dragged down by these old feuds.
People's ancestors harmed mine and vice versa, it's a shame, a lesson to be learnt from but not a reason for future division. If it was we'd have to hate everyone and nobody wants that.
Tbh the only thing that annoyed me about this situation was people telling people that they can't criticise him for it. | |
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| James McClean. Thoughts on 17:04 - Jul 21 with 2282 views | Mvpeter |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 16:59 - Jul 21 by 1BobbyHazell |
Well as I've explained if you think he's being disrespectful that's up to you and your view of the world, but IT IS A SUBJECTIVE ONE.
The further idea that you have emphasised in later posts that this perceived disrespect of yours equates to hatred of a nation is the sort of frothy mouthed nonsense that the world could really do without.
What's really going on here is your inability to deal with your extremely strong emotional response to how your belief structures have decided to perceive someone else's minor actions. |
It is not a subjective one. Actions can be objectively disrespectful.
The CONTINUOUS ACTIVE disrespect does.
My emotions are fully in control. I could accuse you of the same flim flam nonsense with exactly the same amount of justification. None. | |
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| James McClean. Thoughts on 17:11 - Jul 21 with 2270 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 17:04 - Jul 21 by Mvpeter |
It is not a subjective one. Actions can be objectively disrespectful.
The CONTINUOUS ACTIVE disrespect does.
My emotions are fully in control. I could accuse you of the same flim flam nonsense with exactly the same amount of justification. None. |
I think we have reached our empasse brother. Your belief in your 'rightness' is too strong for me.
I don't believe he was being disrespectful, but you claim he was and it is subjective fact, so if I fell down in the woods and no one was there....
Add that to your other 'objective' fact that minor 'disrespectful' acts equate to the hatred of a whole nation and you've got yourself quite the philosophy there, obviously in no way informed or indeed inflamed by your emotional response!
Please do accuse me of the same 'flim flam nonsense', it could be fun. | | | |
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| James McClean. Thoughts on 17:22 - Jul 21 with 2254 views | PunteR |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 16:24 - Jul 21 by Mvpeter |
Because he continuously does these things against things that are English despite those things having nothing to do with his alleged objection and instead just being English.
Hatred is simply the extension of disrespect. Continuous displays of ACTIVE disrespect of people is hatred IMO.
Such a polite reasonable person aren't you? |
He's actively disrespecting you but he's not disrespecting me,i'm English so therefore he's not hating all English.Just you i suppose and those that share your views.
Some of your posts comes across as disrespectful to other opinions ,doesn't mean you hate anyone here,you just feel strongly about your own opinions.
National anthem is outdated anyway. God save the queen?? What does that mean? |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| James McClean. Thoughts on 17:28 - Jul 21 with 2250 views | Mvpeter |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 17:11 - Jul 21 by 1BobbyHazell |
I think we have reached our empasse brother. Your belief in your 'rightness' is too strong for me.
I don't believe he was being disrespectful, but you claim he was and it is subjective fact, so if I fell down in the woods and no one was there....
Add that to your other 'objective' fact that minor 'disrespectful' acts equate to the hatred of a whole nation and you've got yourself quite the philosophy there, obviously in no way informed or indeed inflamed by your emotional response!
Please do accuse me of the same 'flim flam nonsense', it could be fun. |
Oh here we go, fight ardently for what appears to have been a few days but I'm the one who believe in my rightness 'I must have missed the part where you said that you believed everything you were saying was wrong.
I at absolutely no point said that it was objective fact. It was in fact you who claimed that it was an objective fact that disrespect was subjective at all times. I merely denied that.
Add to that your continual use of strawman that I have explicitly stated are not arguments that I have used and you have quite the intellectual cocoon there. | |
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| James McClean. Thoughts on 17:41 - Jul 21 with 2229 views | Mvpeter |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 17:22 - Jul 21 by PunteR |
He's actively disrespecting you but he's not disrespecting me,i'm English so therefore he's not hating all English.Just you i suppose and those that share your views.
Some of your posts comes across as disrespectful to other opinions ,doesn't mean you hate anyone here,you just feel strongly about your own opinions.
National anthem is outdated anyway. God save the queen?? What does that mean? |
I think he is disrespecting you and you just haven't accepted it which is fine.
Disrespect is not hate and I have not once said that (why do I have to keep saying this?)
However continuous displays of active and public disrespect based entirely on nationality is and that's what he's doing. He isn't protesting anything to do with Bloody Sunday.
Completely agree, Land of Hope and Glory or even Rule Britannia would be much much better. | |
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| James McClean. Thoughts on 17:52 - Jul 21 with 2216 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 17:28 - Jul 21 by Mvpeter |
Oh here we go, fight ardently for what appears to have been a few days but I'm the one who believe in my rightness 'I must have missed the part where you said that you believed everything you were saying was wrong.
I at absolutely no point said that it was objective fact. It was in fact you who claimed that it was an objective fact that disrespect was subjective at all times. I merely denied that.
Add to that your continual use of strawman that I have explicitly stated are not arguments that I have used and you have quite the intellectual cocoon there. |
Oh balls, I just can't leave it.
In answer to your first paragraph please read this again from an earlier post of mine. Take your time, get your head around it, you clearly didn't the first time round. As you can see, I think neither of us are 'right'!
"As for the disrespect issue, that is something up for debate. It is highly subjective and open to many translations. You have, rather over zealously for me, translated it as 'hating the english', I translate it rather differently to that. Ultimately neither of us can be 'right' about that as only Maclean knows what he really thinks and feels. Disrespect is most definitely in the mind of the beholder. We can wind ourselves up with all sorts of translations about what someone's actions mean or how bad a person we think it makes them but it is all in our own perceptions of reality as opposed to a quantifiable, objective truth."
As for your second paragraph, if you think something is not subjective then you are saying it is objective. That is objective. Plus you put this 'Actions can be objectively described as disrespectful'. So I don't really know where you are going now with your denials but I quite like your 'intellectual cocoon' cuss so I might borrow it if I may.
If you really think that what he has done DEFINITELY means that he 'hates the English' and is 'spitting on the graves of the dead' and yet at the same time deny any emotional hyperbolic aspect to your response then fair do's to you. But if we're looking for an excellent definition of strawman ...  | | | |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 18:17 - Jul 21 with 2187 views | jamois |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 17:41 - Jul 21 by Mvpeter |
I think he is disrespecting you and you just haven't accepted it which is fine.
Disrespect is not hate and I have not once said that (why do I have to keep saying this?)
However continuous displays of active and public disrespect based entirely on nationality is and that's what he's doing. He isn't protesting anything to do with Bloody Sunday.
Completely agree, Land of Hope and Glory or even Rule Britannia would be much much better. |
Rule Brittania or Land of Hope and Glory (whilst being a rousing tune at the Albert Hall) retain the same claptrap notions of empire and colonialism that would continue to engender a false sense of self about this nation. They also fan the flames of gross nationalism and bigotry. God save the Queen stinks - seems we can all agree on that one - but any anthem truly reflective of the times and the people should be looking forward not backward. I find all three of these tunes embarrassing. |  |
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| James McClean. Thoughts on 06:50 - Jul 22 with 2057 views | SpiritofGregory |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 19:21 - Jul 20 by Watford_Ranger |
A foreign country he's not from. |
I couldn't care less that's where his loyalty lies. I've had enough of people enjoying a great life here and showing disrespect to the culture and heritage of this country. We are too weak and people take advantage of that weakness, time to clamp down on this kind of nonsense, send him packing. |  | | |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 07:19 - Jul 22 with 2033 views | PunteR |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 06:50 - Jul 22 by SpiritofGregory |
I couldn't care less that's where his loyalty lies. I've had enough of people enjoying a great life here and showing disrespect to the culture and heritage of this country. We are too weak and people take advantage of that weakness, time to clamp down on this kind of nonsense, send him packing. |
Can you tell me what this country's culture and heritage is please SOG. Just in case I'm accidentally disrespecting it and get thrown out of the country. | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| James McClean. Thoughts on 07:26 - Jul 22 with 2026 views | easthertsr |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 06:50 - Jul 22 by SpiritofGregory |
I couldn't care less that's where his loyalty lies. I've had enough of people enjoying a great life here and showing disrespect to the culture and heritage of this country. We are too weak and people take advantage of that weakness, time to clamp down on this kind of nonsense, send him packing. |
This is not North Korea or Saudi Arabia! If you think 'disrepect' is an offence worthy of punishment perhaps you should move to somewhere with that sort of regime! | | | |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 08:19 - Jul 22 with 1984 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 06:50 - Jul 22 by SpiritofGregory |
I couldn't care less that's where his loyalty lies. I've had enough of people enjoying a great life here and showing disrespect to the culture and heritage of this country. We are too weak and people take advantage of that weakness, time to clamp down on this kind of nonsense, send him packing. |
Chin up brother, we might be 'weak' letting these P1ss Taking B**tards win over here but at least away from home we're not afraid to pile into a country we've no right to be in and dish out some righteous shoeings. So, you know, swings and roundabouts. | | | |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 10:52 - Jul 22 with 1925 views | timcocking |
I'd laugh if they hung him, the fecking kunt... |  | | |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 11:12 - Jul 22 with 1908 views | Watford_Ranger |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 10:52 - Jul 22 by timcocking |
I'd laugh if they hung him, the fecking kunt... |
I'd be quite concerned given he's not actually done anything at all. | | | |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 11:40 - Jul 22 with 1893 views | Bushman |
Surely his actions were unarguably disrepectful and he knew that he would offend some people and that was his intention,therefore he intended to offend people therefore he's a c[nut. |  |
| I know almost nothing about the Premier League even though I try to catch the big games every now and then at the end of the season. But I will say this, Queens Park Rangers is just a fukking sick ass team name. Just sounds so cool. |
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| James McClean. Thoughts on 11:42 - Jul 22 with 1888 views | Watford_Ranger |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 11:40 - Jul 22 by Bushman |
Surely his actions were unarguably disrepectful and he knew that he would offend some people and that was his intention,therefore he intended to offend people therefore he's a c[nut. |
Maybe he intended to not offend those closest to him? | | | |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 11:55 - Jul 22 with 1883 views | Bushman |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 11:42 - Jul 22 by Watford_Ranger |
Maybe he intended to not offend those closest to him? |
Well that's possible.
If everyone thought they were offending someone by not turning away from a flag they had an issue with it would be common practice and considered normal or acceptable.
But it's not
He's the only player who has ever(?) done it which is why we are discussing it.
I have no strong feelings but you cannot behave like that without knowing you are going to willfully offend some people. [Post edited 22 Jul 2015 11:56]
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| I know almost nothing about the Premier League even though I try to catch the big games every now and then at the end of the season. But I will say this, Queens Park Rangers is just a fukking sick ass team name. Just sounds so cool. |
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| James McClean. Thoughts on 12:04 - Jul 22 with 1873 views | Watford_Ranger |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 11:55 - Jul 22 by Bushman |
Well that's possible.
If everyone thought they were offending someone by not turning away from a flag they had an issue with it would be common practice and considered normal or acceptable.
But it's not
He's the only player who has ever(?) done it which is why we are discussing it.
I have no strong feelings but you cannot behave like that without knowing you are going to willfully offend some people. [Post edited 22 Jul 2015 11:56]
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And I don't doubt he knows that. But if it's a toss-up between offending your family/community or a load of people you don't know it's no contest.
Not saying that's definitely the case but that's how it comes across to me. It really would be easier if he just wasn't on the pitch until the actual match started. | | | |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 12:30 - Jul 22 with 1858 views | Mvpeter |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 17:52 - Jul 21 by 1BobbyHazell |
Oh balls, I just can't leave it.
In answer to your first paragraph please read this again from an earlier post of mine. Take your time, get your head around it, you clearly didn't the first time round. As you can see, I think neither of us are 'right'!
"As for the disrespect issue, that is something up for debate. It is highly subjective and open to many translations. You have, rather over zealously for me, translated it as 'hating the english', I translate it rather differently to that. Ultimately neither of us can be 'right' about that as only Maclean knows what he really thinks and feels. Disrespect is most definitely in the mind of the beholder. We can wind ourselves up with all sorts of translations about what someone's actions mean or how bad a person we think it makes them but it is all in our own perceptions of reality as opposed to a quantifiable, objective truth."
As for your second paragraph, if you think something is not subjective then you are saying it is objective. That is objective. Plus you put this 'Actions can be objectively described as disrespectful'. So I don't really know where you are going now with your denials but I quite like your 'intellectual cocoon' cuss so I might borrow it if I may.
If you really think that what he has done DEFINITELY means that he 'hates the English' and is 'spitting on the graves of the dead' and yet at the same time deny any emotional hyperbolic aspect to your response then fair do's to you. But if we're looking for an excellent definition of strawman ... |
Without an explicit statement there are no definite a and tbh even with that it wouldn't be.
He's either hateful or ignorant and both make him a t**t imo. I believe it to be the hatefulness aspect and as someone with a fair bit of experience in Anglo Irish relations you could say I'm playing the percentages on this one.
What I meant by things can be objectively disrespectful is just that, that they can be but not necessarily that this one is.
Go ahead with the cocoon jibe I was quite pleased with that lol. | |
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| James McClean. Thoughts on 12:53 - Jul 22 with 1835 views | Mvpeter |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 18:17 - Jul 21 by jamois |
Rule Brittania or Land of Hope and Glory (whilst being a rousing tune at the Albert Hall) retain the same claptrap notions of empire and colonialism that would continue to engender a false sense of self about this nation. They also fan the flames of gross nationalism and bigotry. God save the Queen stinks - seems we can all agree on that one - but any anthem truly reflective of the times and the people should be looking forward not backward. I find all three of these tunes embarrassing. |
I don't disagree with any of that but I shudder to think of the PC garbage that we'd get written now.
Anthems are hard to write it would appear. | |
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