| James McClean. Thoughts on 23:51 - Jul 20 with 2613 views | easthertsr |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 23:36 - Jul 20 by BrianMcCarthy |
Ok - my view so:-
I agree with him on the poppy issue and wouldn't wear one myself. I'm also an Irish Republican, though not a Nationalist, which implies a support of violence which I despise. I'm also anti-monarchy, which I find ludicrous, but I wouldn't have protested like he did. I don't see it as an insult or a disgrace - in fact I think it was mild and measured - but I don't feel as strongly as McLean does, so wouldn't have protested as he did.
The question I asked myself just now is whether I'd be upset if someone did it to the Irish National Anthem, and the answer is that it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Vive le difference. |
Well said that man! The whole point of living in a democracy is that people can express opinions and views that others don't like. You can disagree with him if you want, but he has a perfect right to do what he has done. We are all products of our backgrounds and he is no exception. |  | |  |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 09:22 - Jul 21 with 2453 views | Mvpeter |
Spitting on the graves of Irish Volunteers such as my Great Grandfather who was killed by the war to defend c***s like him.
Hypocritical in the extreme to hate the English and take their money. When you move to a new place you respect their culture or you don't move, it's just basic manners. | |
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| James McClean. Thoughts on 09:26 - Jul 21 with 2441 views | Watford_Ranger |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 09:22 - Jul 21 by Mvpeter |
Spitting on the graves of Irish Volunteers such as my Great Grandfather who was killed by the war to defend c***s like him.
Hypocritical in the extreme to hate the English and take their money. When you move to a new place you respect their culture or you don't move, it's just basic manners. |
For the millionth time, what has he done to suggest he hates the English?
He's from the UK. He lives and works in the UK. | | | |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 09:48 - Jul 21 with 2411 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 09:22 - Jul 21 by Mvpeter |
Spitting on the graves of Irish Volunteers such as my Great Grandfather who was killed by the war to defend c***s like him.
Hypocritical in the extreme to hate the English and take their money. When you move to a new place you respect their culture or you don't move, it's just basic manners. |
When has he said that he hates the English?
I've got no time for subjugating myself to the (German)Royal family and I couldn't give 2 hoots about the National anthem and I and nearly everyone I love is English. If your extrapolation is philosophically sound, I'm f**ked!!
Perhaps he should have turned to the flag and provided an homage Nazi salute, then we could have avoided all this fuss. |  | | |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 09:49 - Jul 21 with 2407 views | Discodroids |
having cobbled together half truths, spiteful lies, wildly ill informed poisend opinions taken from left leaning tagnut periodicals ...and simply inventing things in the windmills of my mind, i have reached the conclusion that Mclean is a bit of a cu,nt . possibly.
to salve his morale and detoxify , i prescribe a tincture of Paolo nuntini's bitter sweet fusion of rock and soul laments twice daily to be taken with meals and suppository 10milligrams of sister sledge sodium penthahol b disco licks, to be taken anally after bowel movements . please remember to manipulate the tip to accomodate your puckered arsehole and to avoid fistula's. [Post edited 21 Jul 2015 9:50]
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| The Duke Of New York. A-Number One.
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| James McClean. Thoughts on 09:49 - Jul 21 with 2406 views | Mvpeter |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 09:26 - Jul 21 by Watford_Ranger |
For the millionth time, what has he done to suggest he hates the English?
He's from the UK. He lives and works in the UK. |
Not just the English but every soldier that fought and died for him.
He's disrespected the symbols of the English multiple times and refuses to wear the poppy due to Irish nationalism, misinformed ignorant Irish nationalism but Irish nationalism nonetheless.
I fail to see what the U.K has to do with any of this. If I was a complete idiot and still hated the Germans, moved there, lived there, made a living there, disrespected them at every turn I don't think
'he's from the E.U, he lives and works in the EU'
would make one whit of difference to the hypocrisy of voluntary earning a wage and voluntarily using the services of the country and their government that you have voluntarily entered and could voluntarily leave.
And while I'd have the right to do just that, every German would have the right and the justification to call me a c**t. | |
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| James McClean. Thoughts on 09:51 - Jul 21 with 2392 views | Mvpeter |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 09:48 - Jul 21 by 1BobbyHazell |
When has he said that he hates the English?
I've got no time for subjugating myself to the (German)Royal family and I couldn't give 2 hoots about the National anthem and I and nearly everyone I love is English. If your extrapolation is philosophically sound, I'm f**ked!!
Perhaps he should have turned to the flag and provided an homage Nazi salute, then we could have avoided all this fuss. |
No you aren't because that is not equivalent to what he's done. | |
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| James McClean. Thoughts on 09:52 - Jul 21 with 2378 views | simmo |
At least he's consistent. |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| James McClean. Thoughts on 09:59 - Jul 21 with 2361 views | PunteR |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 09:22 - Jul 21 by Mvpeter |
Spitting on the graves of Irish Volunteers such as my Great Grandfather who was killed by the war to defend c***s like him.
Hypocritical in the extreme to hate the English and take their money. When you move to a new place you respect their culture or you don't move, it's just basic manners. |
ah ..good ol English manners.. |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| James McClean. Thoughts on 10:00 - Jul 21 with 2359 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 09:49 - Jul 21 by Mvpeter |
Not just the English but every soldier that fought and died for him.
He's disrespected the symbols of the English multiple times and refuses to wear the poppy due to Irish nationalism, misinformed ignorant Irish nationalism but Irish nationalism nonetheless.
I fail to see what the U.K has to do with any of this. If I was a complete idiot and still hated the Germans, moved there, lived there, made a living there, disrespected them at every turn I don't think
'he's from the E.U, he lives and works in the EU'
would make one whit of difference to the hypocrisy of voluntary earning a wage and voluntarily using the services of the country and their government that you have voluntarily entered and could voluntarily leave.
And while I'd have the right to do just that, every German would have the right and the justification to call me a c**t. |
He doesn't hate the English, he just doesn't support some of its military action that involved murdering people from his community. There's a huge difference between the two. I understand it can be an emotional issue which is why you are wanting to exaggerate his position to emphasise your being 'right' but that is neither fair nor accurate.
I suppose in some ways you share his view of the World as I imagine he may see honouring the flag and anthem as 'spitting on the graves' of those who were murdered in his community. | | | |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 10:29 - Jul 21 with 2323 views | Watford_Ranger |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 09:49 - Jul 21 by Mvpeter |
Not just the English but every soldier that fought and died for him.
He's disrespected the symbols of the English multiple times and refuses to wear the poppy due to Irish nationalism, misinformed ignorant Irish nationalism but Irish nationalism nonetheless.
I fail to see what the U.K has to do with any of this. If I was a complete idiot and still hated the Germans, moved there, lived there, made a living there, disrespected them at every turn I don't think
'he's from the E.U, he lives and works in the EU'
would make one whit of difference to the hypocrisy of voluntary earning a wage and voluntarily using the services of the country and their government that you have voluntarily entered and could voluntarily leave.
And while I'd have the right to do just that, every German would have the right and the justification to call me a c**t. |
I don't see how doing nothing at all is being disrespectful. Literally nothing. He stood there, faced forward, didn't speak or do anything at all. He would be totally in the wrong if he spoke out against 'the English', publicly promoted anti-Britishness or something like that but he doesn't. He just chooses not to be a part of something which in part commemorates a conflict which personally affected his community.
If he wanted to wear a poppy then great. If a German, an Iraqi or anyone else wanted to then brilliant. If they don't want to and quietly abstain then it shouldn't be a big deal. Why should anyone be forced to salute the Queen, sing her anthem, remember those lost in past wars. Great if they want to but it should be up to the individual and as long as they don't disrupt others who choose to grieve or pay homage, why should anyone care? | | | |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 10:50 - Jul 21 with 2295 views | JonDoeman |
Looks like Pulis finds it disrespectful. And he is right, To say it isn't is a nonsense!
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| James McClean. Thoughts on 10:52 - Jul 21 with 2292 views | Mvpeter |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 10:00 - Jul 21 by 1BobbyHazell |
He doesn't hate the English, he just doesn't support some of its military action that involved murdering people from his community. There's a huge difference between the two. I understand it can be an emotional issue which is why you are wanting to exaggerate his position to emphasise your being 'right' but that is neither fair nor accurate.
I suppose in some ways you share his view of the World as I imagine he may see honouring the flag and anthem as 'spitting on the graves' of those who were murdered in his community. |
Exactly, there is a huge difference between the two. He is unable to differentiate between them and so attacks the English broadly.
He doesn't have to honour it, he shouldn't disrespect it. Half of that team did not sing and didn't have to.
I'm an athiest, if I went to a wedding I wouldn't face the back and stand in the aisle because I have a bit more respect. I don't respect the convention, I actively disrespect it but I respect those who have invited me there enough to stand in silence. If I couldn't face that I wouldn't go. Simple as.
He would be wrong as none of the things he has protested against were representative of those who murdered his community. They have been general English or British symbols or those honouring the deaths of those killed in including his Irish compatriots such as my great grandfather.
Moving on and letting old feuds die is not spitting on the graves of those who fought them, actively disrespecting them is. [Post edited 21 Jul 2015 10:59]
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| James McClean. Thoughts on 11:11 - Jul 21 with 2263 views | NathanNI |
Whilst I find this regrettable* I have a bigger problem with him for playing for the North up and in the U21s then deciding he had a desire to play for the South. Whilst I firmly believe anyone born in the North has a right to play for the South as things stand. To get the coaching and support up until the 21s then decide to 'stand by your principles' is the behaviour of someone with no principles at all.
Worth remembering, there are many Northern Irish catholics that turn out for Northern Ireland each game and choose not to sing the anthem, some of them also come from nationalist communities, they don't feel the need to turn their back, they just stand silent and more power to them. Everyone treats McLean as if he is the only one of his kind. Well there are many, many others that keep their dignity and principles without the need to make such public statement about it. It's those people on both sides, that are prepared to move beyond the point scoring (for the want of a better statement) that will be the future of that country. Those that are bitter and want to keep highlighting the wrongs of the past (on both sides lets remember) are the roadblock to an easier life for everyone. IMHO.
*My mum lives in the south and they often play the Irish anthem in the pub at closing. A friend of ours was there and refused to stand for it, as he said 'I wouldn't stand for any national anthem'. It came close to trouble needless to say but my Mum's view was that it was about respect for the country you are in. You might not like it, but you do it. He didn't have to turn, no-one expects him to belt it out. |  | | |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 11:20 - Jul 21 with 2243 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 11:11 - Jul 21 by NathanNI |
Whilst I find this regrettable* I have a bigger problem with him for playing for the North up and in the U21s then deciding he had a desire to play for the South. Whilst I firmly believe anyone born in the North has a right to play for the South as things stand. To get the coaching and support up until the 21s then decide to 'stand by your principles' is the behaviour of someone with no principles at all.
Worth remembering, there are many Northern Irish catholics that turn out for Northern Ireland each game and choose not to sing the anthem, some of them also come from nationalist communities, they don't feel the need to turn their back, they just stand silent and more power to them. Everyone treats McLean as if he is the only one of his kind. Well there are many, many others that keep their dignity and principles without the need to make such public statement about it. It's those people on both sides, that are prepared to move beyond the point scoring (for the want of a better statement) that will be the future of that country. Those that are bitter and want to keep highlighting the wrongs of the past (on both sides lets remember) are the roadblock to an easier life for everyone. IMHO.
*My mum lives in the south and they often play the Irish anthem in the pub at closing. A friend of ours was there and refused to stand for it, as he said 'I wouldn't stand for any national anthem'. It came close to trouble needless to say but my Mum's view was that it was about respect for the country you are in. You might not like it, but you do it. He didn't have to turn, no-one expects him to belt it out. |
Eloquent and well-reasoned, Nathan.
My parents had pubs in Ireland and England and refused to play any anthems for that same reason. My Dad's comment when pressurised to play them was 'no-one comes here to vote'. |  |
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| James McClean. Thoughts on 11:21 - Jul 21 with 2242 views | Mvpeter |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 11:11 - Jul 21 by NathanNI |
Whilst I find this regrettable* I have a bigger problem with him for playing for the North up and in the U21s then deciding he had a desire to play for the South. Whilst I firmly believe anyone born in the North has a right to play for the South as things stand. To get the coaching and support up until the 21s then decide to 'stand by your principles' is the behaviour of someone with no principles at all.
Worth remembering, there are many Northern Irish catholics that turn out for Northern Ireland each game and choose not to sing the anthem, some of them also come from nationalist communities, they don't feel the need to turn their back, they just stand silent and more power to them. Everyone treats McLean as if he is the only one of his kind. Well there are many, many others that keep their dignity and principles without the need to make such public statement about it. It's those people on both sides, that are prepared to move beyond the point scoring (for the want of a better statement) that will be the future of that country. Those that are bitter and want to keep highlighting the wrongs of the past (on both sides lets remember) are the roadblock to an easier life for everyone. IMHO.
*My mum lives in the south and they often play the Irish anthem in the pub at closing. A friend of ours was there and refused to stand for it, as he said 'I wouldn't stand for any national anthem'. It came close to trouble needless to say but my Mum's view was that it was about respect for the country you are in. You might not like it, but you do it. He didn't have to turn, no-one expects him to belt it out. |
Well said, great comment. | |
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| James McClean. Thoughts on 11:30 - Jul 21 with 2232 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 10:50 - Jul 21 by JonDoeman |
Looks like Pulis finds it disrespectful. And he is right, To say it isn't is a nonsense!
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I'll tell you what's nonsense - A grown man being forced to turn 90 degrees to the left to face a piece of cloth to satisfy the needs of over emotional frothy mouthed types. There are many countries where people are forced to do such things, this shouldn't be one of them. Absolutely pathetic. | | | |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 11:34 - Jul 21 with 2212 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 11:30 - Jul 21 by 1BobbyHazell |
I'll tell you what's nonsense - A grown man being forced to turn 90 degrees to the left to face a piece of cloth to satisfy the needs of over emotional frothy mouthed types. There are many countries where people are forced to do such things, this shouldn't be one of them. Absolutely pathetic. |
Agree with that, too. | |
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| James McClean. Thoughts on 11:38 - Jul 21 with 2204 views | Mvpeter |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 11:30 - Jul 21 by 1BobbyHazell |
I'll tell you what's nonsense - A grown man being forced to turn 90 degrees to the left to face a piece of cloth to satisfy the needs of over emotional frothy mouthed types. There are many countries where people are forced to do such things, this shouldn't be one of them. Absolutely pathetic. |
These are strawman arguments Bobby.
Why do you keep talking about forced? Nobody once said he should be forced, they said he should p*** off if it's such a chore for him.
And nobody said anything about legislating to that effect.
See what people don't seem to understand is that freedom of speech, thought and expression does not give you the right of acceptance. People are entitled to disagree and disparage because of his shitty beliefs.
Nobody cares about the cloth but they do care about the intentions behind his disrespect of what it represents. [Post edited 21 Jul 2015 11:39]
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| James McClean. Thoughts on 11:47 - Jul 21 with 2190 views | paulparker |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 11:30 - Jul 21 by 1BobbyHazell |
I'll tell you what's nonsense - A grown man being forced to turn 90 degrees to the left to face a piece of cloth to satisfy the needs of over emotional frothy mouthed types. There are many countries where people are forced to do such things, this shouldn't be one of them. Absolutely pathetic. |
So on that basis we may as well not bothered fighting wars or protecting this country if a flag or its anthem mean nothing,
The point is that McLean is more justified to have his views, good for him, Everyman should
But what is very hypocritical is him turning away from the national country's anthem, the same country who has given him a very good life up to now, a country he lives and earns good money in,
If that anthem offends him that much why be here, why not ply his trade in the Irish league?
As a footballer he must know that if he got the chance to play at Wembley that the anthem would be played, what then ? Would he boycott a chance to play in a final , we all know the answer to this, at the end of the day it's all well & good spouting principals but when you take the cash you look like a hypocrite which exactly what Mclean is |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| James McClean. Thoughts on 12:04 - Jul 21 with 2156 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 11:38 - Jul 21 by Mvpeter |
These are strawman arguments Bobby.
Why do you keep talking about forced? Nobody once said he should be forced, they said he should p*** off if it's such a chore for him.
And nobody said anything about legislating to that effect.
See what people don't seem to understand is that freedom of speech, thought and expression does not give you the right of acceptance. People are entitled to disagree and disparage because of his shitty beliefs.
Nobody cares about the cloth but they do care about the intentions behind his disrespect of what it represents. [Post edited 21 Jul 2015 11:39]
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Not a strawman Peter, it was a direct response to Pulis forcing him to do it next time.
As for the disrespect issue, that is something up for debate. It is highly subjective and open to many translations. You have, rather over zealously for me, translated it as 'hating the english', I translate it rather differently to that. Ultimately neither of us can be 'right' about that as only Maclean knows what he really thinks and feels. Disrespect is most definitely in the mind of the beholder. We can wind ourselves up with all sorts of translations about what someone's actions mean or how bad a person we think it makes them but it is all in our own perceptions of reality as opposed to a quantifiable, objective truth.
Bottom line for me is freedom. The freedom to not have to face a flag is a bare minimum. | | | |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 12:37 - Jul 21 with 2111 views | PhilmyRs |
Everyone’s entitled to their views and I have no problem with McClean’s stance on not wearing the poppy. I just find this latest incident so unnecessary. A lot of people don’t care much for national anthems, but you still stand and acknowledge them. You don’t need to sing along, hand on chest. He’s not an athlete that’s just won gold and having god save the queen played for him. All he had to do was stand there, looking down if he wanted and nobody would care. But no, he has to turn something very trivial into a big issue.
I’m all for protests, American athletes and the clenched fist etc. but really, would McClean’s community have thought any less of him for standing alongside his (a lot of them foreign) teammates whilst the anthem was played during a pre-season game? This protest seemed more petulant and less thought out than his stance on the poppy.
Just to add, I don’t care too much for all the political stuff, I can’t stand McClean for blatantly cheating and trying to get Green sent off in a crucial semi-final. What I find stranger is that after this attempted deceit a poster on here has claimed that he shook his hand after the game. I wonder if he’d done that had we’d lost as a result of the penalty and subsequent red card? I think if I’d bumped into him after the game shaking his hand would have been the last thing on my mind. | | | |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 13:00 - Jul 21 with 2067 views | Watford_Ranger |
Saw on Twitter:
God save our James McClean
Long live our James McClean
God save McClean
Send us vitorious
His tricks are glorious
Long to score goals for us
God save McClean | | | |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 13:38 - Jul 21 with 2024 views | Mvpeter |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 12:04 - Jul 21 by 1BobbyHazell |
Not a strawman Peter, it was a direct response to Pulis forcing him to do it next time.
As for the disrespect issue, that is something up for debate. It is highly subjective and open to many translations. You have, rather over zealously for me, translated it as 'hating the english', I translate it rather differently to that. Ultimately neither of us can be 'right' about that as only Maclean knows what he really thinks and feels. Disrespect is most definitely in the mind of the beholder. We can wind ourselves up with all sorts of translations about what someone's actions mean or how bad a person we think it makes them but it is all in our own perceptions of reality as opposed to a quantifiable, objective truth.
Bottom line for me is freedom. The freedom to not have to face a flag is a bare minimum. |
Your post was filled with them and there is a big difference between government intervention and private individuals enforcing terms upon each other through contract.
Pulis is the manager and has the power and can dictate whether or not his charges are disrespectful to their employers.
Having a blacket disrespect for anything English is hatred of the English. If his focus were on institutions directly focused on the Troubles then that is one thing but this is not the case. Anything English is disrespected for being English.
Actions can be objectively described as disrespectful. This is an easily demonstrable fact.
Here's the strawman again, as has been stressed many many many times by half a dozen posters nobody has argued that he doesn't have the right to do this, nobody has argued that this should be legislated against but they are arguing that he is a disrespectful t**t, that they do not want him signed by us ever and that he is a complete hypocrite. You seem to wish to deny that freedom. | |
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| James McClean. Thoughts on 14:01 - Jul 21 with 1996 views | Antti_Heinola |
| James McClean. Thoughts on 13:38 - Jul 21 by Mvpeter |
Your post was filled with them and there is a big difference between government intervention and private individuals enforcing terms upon each other through contract.
Pulis is the manager and has the power and can dictate whether or not his charges are disrespectful to their employers.
Having a blacket disrespect for anything English is hatred of the English. If his focus were on institutions directly focused on the Troubles then that is one thing but this is not the case. Anything English is disrespected for being English.
Actions can be objectively described as disrespectful. This is an easily demonstrable fact.
Here's the strawman again, as has been stressed many many many times by half a dozen posters nobody has argued that he doesn't have the right to do this, nobody has argued that this should be legislated against but they are arguing that he is a disrespectful t**t, that they do not want him signed by us ever and that he is a complete hypocrite. You seem to wish to deny that freedom. |
'Having a blacket disrespect for anything English is hatred of the English'
How do you know he's got a blanket disrespect for 'anything English'? Why does disrespect equal hatred? I disrespect you, but I don't hate you. I disrespect Farage, but I don't hate him. i disrespect the Royal bloody Family, but I don't hate them. |  |
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