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About time we had one and it's got the word "official" in the title so that makes all the difference. If a mod wants to sticky it, feel free.
I seem to remember that five years ago (on the old, better Planet Swans) we got to nearly 100 pages and then another 60odd with the "aftermath" thread. They were good fun but there were more posters then and we were all a bit more tolerant of others' views. Let's try to be nice to each other, eh.
Anyway, best site for opinion polls is this one in my experience:
Polls are so tight the only conclusion is that the Tories and Labour are head to head nationwide. Can't put a whisker between them.
Tories need about 39-40% for an overall majority. Labour will probably get one on 36-37%. God bless our ridiculous voting system.
So, enjoy yourselves. I'll start with a prediction. Labour to win most seats but slightly fewer votes than the Tories and end up forming some kind of minority government with support from various parliamentary lefties on a vote by vote basis. And then all of a sudden many Tory supporters will discover that they've always hated first past the post and can't understand why we perpetuate a system under which the party which more people voted for than any other can lose the election. It'll be quite funny and lead to calls for a proper voting system. Which everyone will forget about in six months when all the fuss has died down.
It is a FACT the increased CO2 in the atmosphere will cause the temperature of the atmosphere, and in turn the Earth,to rise. This is due to the fact that CO2 molecules absorb energy from the Sun that would otherwise be reflected or absorbed by the Earth and remit this energy into the atmosphere.
Anyway people let's not get sidetracked again.
I'm thinking of voting Plaid and it's not even the Welsh thing, I may not even be living in Wales by the next election. I agree with more of their policies than any other party. I agree with a lot of the Green's policies, if not more than Plaid but they'll never get elected and their policies seem a bit fanciful. Too good to be true, also their leaders couldn't lead a drugs dog to some coke in a Colombian jail.
Labour's policies are sound enough but I don't have much faith in either of the Eds.
[Post edited 16 Apr 2015 0:38]
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The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 02:22 - Apr 16 with 2093 views
The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:26 - Apr 15 by acejack3065
Global warming specifically refers to the earths temperature rising. Climate change is a broader term that encompasses global warming as well as changes in climate and weather. Both are happening and It is not a linguistic trick as you suggest.
Look at the increase of CO2 in the atmosphere since 1950. Look at the research. Believe what you want. Science isn't about belief and opinion.
I'm not going to change your mind here so I'm not going to waste my time.
Do you actually know the composite of CO2 in the atmosphere? We naughty humans have been burning the evil fossil fuels relentlessly since the start of the industrial revolution around 250 years ago, bringing the total carbon dioxide content of the air up to a f ucking massive 0.0397%
So if you plucked 100 molecules randomly out of the air, chances are there wouldn't be a single CO2 molecule present, and you could keep doing it and eventually you might be lucky and find the odd one.
If CO2 was such a heat trap Mars would be melting as it's atmosphere is 95% CO2 but instead its about -100 constantly.
Why people still perpeuate this global warming nonsense is an absolute mystery to me.
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 02:22 - Apr 16 by Highjack
Do you actually know the composite of CO2 in the atmosphere? We naughty humans have been burning the evil fossil fuels relentlessly since the start of the industrial revolution around 250 years ago, bringing the total carbon dioxide content of the air up to a f ucking massive 0.0397%
So if you plucked 100 molecules randomly out of the air, chances are there wouldn't be a single CO2 molecule present, and you could keep doing it and eventually you might be lucky and find the odd one.
If CO2 was such a heat trap Mars would be melting as it's atmosphere is 95% CO2 but instead its about -100 constantly.
Why people still perpeuate this global warming nonsense is an absolute mystery to me.
Where did you study physics?
Upthecity!
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The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 10:28 - Apr 16 with 2033 views
The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 09:18 - Apr 16 by yescomeon
Where did you study physics?
You don't need to be a professor of rocket brain surgery to know the composition of the atmosphere. It's one of the first things they teach you in secondary school.
Without going off topic too much theres an awful lot of science that casts doubt on the effect man has had on the climate but those studies are swept under the varpet and not reported on. Most of the big studies have been government funded and they then use the tesults to justify taxing energy to breaking point.
Many prominent scientists believe climate change is far more affected by solar cycles and natural geothermic shifts. However you never hear them on the telly and if you do they are made out to be crackpots.
the term "climate change denier" is also frequently used which is hyperbole in the extreme.
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 02:22 - Apr 16 by Highjack
Do you actually know the composite of CO2 in the atmosphere? We naughty humans have been burning the evil fossil fuels relentlessly since the start of the industrial revolution around 250 years ago, bringing the total carbon dioxide content of the air up to a f ucking massive 0.0397%
So if you plucked 100 molecules randomly out of the air, chances are there wouldn't be a single CO2 molecule present, and you could keep doing it and eventually you might be lucky and find the odd one.
If CO2 was such a heat trap Mars would be melting as it's atmosphere is 95% CO2 but instead its about -100 constantly.
Why people still perpeuate this global warming nonsense is an absolute mystery to me.
Whilst there may only be a tiny proportion of CO2 in the air, and there is much more than there would be without human influence, you don't need a lot. This is because due to the bonds in CO2 it absorbs much more of the long-wave radiation that is re-emitted by the Earth, than any other greenhouse gas, which causes a greater heating effect on the Earth's atmosphere. Water is the most plentiful greenhouse gas in the atmosphere but has a smaller effect per molecule than CO2. So whilst you're right that there is only a little bit in the atmosphere each molecule of CO2 has a much greater effect on the atmosphere than other atmospheric gases.
Also it's true that Mars may 95% CO2, but you know what else is true about Mars? It's nearly 1 and a half times further away from the Sun which means, as I'm sure you're aware, that according to the inverse square rule it only receives around 44% of the Sun's radiation.
You're a good post HJ but, with respect, you don't know what you're talking about.
Conservatives to win with an increased overall majority,Milliband to be ditched by Labour. Or is the better option Labour to win propped up by the SNP with Alex Salmond as Deputy PM. those are the two situations the country is faced with,give me the former anyday and probably many sitting on the fence in the Shires who left the Conservatives at the last election will return to the camp.
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The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 10:59 - Apr 16 with 1995 views
The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 10:28 - Apr 16 by macthejack
Whilst there may only be a tiny proportion of CO2 in the air, and there is much more than there would be without human influence, you don't need a lot. This is because due to the bonds in CO2 it absorbs much more of the long-wave radiation that is re-emitted by the Earth, than any other greenhouse gas, which causes a greater heating effect on the Earth's atmosphere. Water is the most plentiful greenhouse gas in the atmosphere but has a smaller effect per molecule than CO2. So whilst you're right that there is only a little bit in the atmosphere each molecule of CO2 has a much greater effect on the atmosphere than other atmospheric gases.
Also it's true that Mars may 95% CO2, but you know what else is true about Mars? It's nearly 1 and a half times further away from the Sun which means, as I'm sure you're aware, that according to the inverse square rule it only receives around 44% of the Sun's radiation.
You're a good post HJ but, with respect, you don't know what you're talking about.
Anyway, politics.
It seems you have misread what I have posted. Possibly deliberately, who knows. I am perfectly aware of the "greenhouse" properties of co2, but there are many many other factors completely out of mans control thay affect the climate exponentially more, but these factors never get mentioned in the discussion.
One you just mentioned yourself, the distance from the sun. The sun has cycles that can last for many many years. Sometimes it has a spike in activity and gives off more energy, sometimes it goes into recline. Sometimes our orbit takes us further or nearer the sun.
We have a red hot core to our planet with massive amounts of heat trying to escape. Again sometimes it is released slowly sometimes it burst out. All this effects the climate more than we ever have.
Co2 has massively fluctuated constantly through history.
Im simply trying to say that in all likelihood we have far less influence on the mechanics of this world than we like to think.
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 10:59 - Apr 16 by Highjack
It seems you have misread what I have posted. Possibly deliberately, who knows. I am perfectly aware of the "greenhouse" properties of co2, but there are many many other factors completely out of mans control thay affect the climate exponentially more, but these factors never get mentioned in the discussion.
One you just mentioned yourself, the distance from the sun. The sun has cycles that can last for many many years. Sometimes it has a spike in activity and gives off more energy, sometimes it goes into recline. Sometimes our orbit takes us further or nearer the sun.
We have a red hot core to our planet with massive amounts of heat trying to escape. Again sometimes it is released slowly sometimes it burst out. All this effects the climate more than we ever have.
Co2 has massively fluctuated constantly through history.
Im simply trying to say that in all likelihood we have far less influence on the mechanics of this world than we like to think.
Not sure why you put "greenhouse" in quotes. CO2 is a greenhouse gas, there are many greenhouse gasses and the greenhouse effect is a real thing that is vital in order to support life on Earth, unfortunately at the moment the greenhouse effect is too large and is causing increased heating of the atmosphere. The massively overwhelming weight of scientific evidence and opinion is that humans have a significant effect on the Earth's climate.
The Sun does indeed go through cycles, but these last for roughly 11 years and their effect on the climate of the Earth is relatively small. Long term changes in the Sun's activity are usually decreases in Solar irradiance. Our orbit does indeed take us nearer or closer the sun and this is why we have seasons, did you know the Earth is closer to the Sun during the northern hemisphere's winter than during its summer. This is why places like Australia have hotter summers than the UK despite us being at roughly opposite latitudes. Also in the long term the Earth is moving away from the Sun which would cause it to cool.
Geothermal energy accounts for about 0.025% of the energy in the climate system and volcanic eruptions cause a decrease in global temperatures of a degree or two for a short period of time.
It has indeed fluctuated throughout history but it is currently at unprecedented levels, roughly double what it's ever been.
Unfortunately science has proven that we do have a significant and negative impact on the Earth's climate.
We keep going off topic but if you want to know more I suggest "Elementary Climate Physics" by prof F W Taylor. Whilst it doesn't talk much about the human effects on the climate it gives a great overview on how the Earth's climate works and what effects it.
[Post edited 16 Apr 2015 12:09]
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The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 12:58 - Apr 16 with 1937 views
Well it is relevant because parties like the Greens base their whole manifesto on how to combat climate change and such like.
I would argue they are misguided because there is no evidence whatsover mankind is causing unatural climate change.
What really sways it for me is our own Met Office reports claiming there has been no global warming since 1998 and indeed the planet is going through a cooling period at the moment.
I know who I d rather believe.
PROUD RECIPIENT OF THE THIRD PLANET SWANS LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD.
"Per ardua ad astra"
The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 13:16 - Apr 16 by Lord_Bony
Well it is relevant because parties like the Greens base their whole manifesto on how to combat climate change and such like.
I would argue they are misguided because there is no evidence whatsover mankind is causing unatural climate change.
What really sways it for me is our own Met Office reports claiming there has been no global warming since 1998 and indeed the planet is going through a cooling period at the moment.
I know who I d rather believe.
You do know that if you selectively ignore large parts of the data and look at it between two arbitrary points you can make it say ananything. The same met office show that there is a larger trend of rising global mean temperature. I would really doubt you would find anyone at the met office that doesnt think that man is having an effect on the climate. I should probably leave macthejack handle this, climate physics is not my area of physics.
Upthecity!
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The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 13:59 - Apr 16 with 1902 views
Look why don't we wait for Mack the Jack to come in from work..have a bit of tea.. Think it s cheese and Branston pickle sandwiches tonight...and then we can commence the discussion here or on another thread... Simples
[Post edited 16 Apr 2015 14:20]
PROUD RECIPIENT OF THE THIRD PLANET SWANS LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD.
"Per ardua ad astra"
The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 13:16 - Apr 16 by Lord_Bony
Well it is relevant because parties like the Greens base their whole manifesto on how to combat climate change and such like.
I would argue they are misguided because there is no evidence whatsover mankind is causing unatural climate change.
What really sways it for me is our own Met Office reports claiming there has been no global warming since 1998 and indeed the planet is going through a cooling period at the moment.
I know who I d rather believe.
Actually do you know what I'm not done, this is a quote from the Met office's website:
"However, there is an underlying trend of warming that is almost certainly caused by man's activities"
All this was found after a quick google. It is so important when it comes to matters of science to undertake a little bit of independant research. You cannot choose to believe one thing or the other in these situations and most certainly cannot choose, or worse, invent, selective arguments that fit what you want to believe.
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The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 14:51 - Apr 16 with 1812 views
Nothing in that report that quantifies the human affect..
The biggest influence on the earths climate is the sun,same as it ever was.
According to the met surface teperature have not increased since 1997 and are not likely too for a few years yet.
Over billions of years the planet has naturally warmed and cooled many times... Now for the sake of our political readers maybe we can continue on the other thread I have just started..
Thanking ye kindly gentlemen.
PROUD RECIPIENT OF THE THIRD PLANET SWANS LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD.
"Per ardua ad astra"
Independent research is fantastic, it can even show the lengths that government officials want to go, in order to over emphasise something that leads to more taxes.
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